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Dharma’s plan to control man’s purpose

to every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven (Ecclesiastes Chapter 3). dharma however attempted to play god and control this purpose.

the 815 crash was not suppose to happen. it happened because the past was changed. what changed? everything, from the purge and the hostile takeover to the crash of 815. dharma, who had mastered the art of time travel via the use of the islands vast electromagnetic properties brought this upon themselves. only fools are enslaved by time and space?

how? dharma’s raison d’être was to study and determine how the past could be changed to sculpt the future as they seen fit to ultimately bring about an utopian society to the world and to thwart the predictions about the end of time. to change the core values of the valenzetti equation.

this power turned out to be to much in the hands of dharma – as sawyer put it to jack, you act and don’t think. we have seen this with dharma as well when they voted to kill off sayid even though they had no proof he was a hostile, they are rash at making decisions out of fear.

what exactly did they do then? well, i suspect they used the ability to see the future to counter the hostiles and gain an upper hand. dharma made the ultimate decision to wipe out the hostiles completely in order to rule the island for good. ben came upon this knowledge as a dharma operative and provided the intel to richard and the hostiles. the hostiles decided to act and kill off all in dharma who were onside with the plan.

the net result was the purge and a massive change in the present timeline. subtle changes could be absorbed via course correction, but the mass execution of dharma by the hostiles was not written in the proper future.

so what now? in order to restore order to the universe (gods plan) and converge the diverging timelines, the losties must correct the actions that caused the changes that brought about the future that was not supposed to happen. in return they would be free from the island and in the future they would have either not flown on 815 or 815 would not have crashed.

how? they must first stop the purge from occurring. second, they must destroy the island or hide it for eternity to stop anyone from changing the future. as sayid said, i know why i am here now.

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36 thoughts on “Dharma’s plan to control man’s purpose

  1. This is interesting. A lot like weve been discussing.
    In fact, I think we are seeing them use the technology to do this right now.
    The losties know this is going to happen, and they have three choices. Stay and die, leave, or stay and fight…and still possibly die, which would defeat the purpose of your theory…but…sorry, I do that sometimes.
    I do like this, I just think of it as already happening. Nice work, great thoughts.
    One thing though, I dont think they made the crash happen, I just think Ben knew it was going to, and set up so everyone who needed to be onboard, was.

  2. a.e.s, the flight crashing was not suppose to happen. everything has changed, there was repercussions to fooling with time.

    faraday is wrong, and so aren’t the rest who believe what he says. as a matter of fact, we are currently seeing another change – the crash of 316. one minute it mattered who was on the plane, the next thing is “it’ll have to do”. Hawkins knows that everything is out of whack so it doesn’t really matter whose on the plane, etc.

    the island which represents all points in time has lost it’s constant and is moving in and out of real space and time into imaginary space and time which represents all the changes that have been happening.

  3. This is what I don’t understand about whatever happenend, happened; AKA immutable time theory. It absolutely implies that whatever the future holds for you, then it holds that no matter what your actions are. It implies that if someone came from the future and told you this is the way it will be, then you will have no way of keeping that from happening, no matter your actions. So if someone like Ms. Hawking actually believes in an immutable time line, then there would be no need to take action. I mean, whatever happens, happens anyway. The writers of Lost can construct any kind of time theory they want for their fictional work, but intellectually, I just cannot buy immutable time theory. And judging from so many theories centered around things changing in the past, many of you agree with me.

  4. i think 316 was supposed to crash. she said get as close as possible, and they did. she knew it didnt matter because people like desmond would get to the island eventually anyway because its fate. the island isnt done with them. if you can make changes why cant michael kill himself?

  5. Lost#, what’s so hard to swallow about the immutable timeline theory? As it applies to real life I mean… The writers of the show can create whatever theory they want, sure… but the idea that the past can be changed in Lost is based on faith and faith only. It’s ok for one of the Losties to do something in the past that would prevent him from being in the past. That paradox is explained away by saying “we have faith that the island will make everything ok”… There is no logical way of explaining why that would work.

  6. lost4815, those are great points. i used to believe in the immutable time theory until i read the alternate side ad infinitum as posted by you, a.e.s and dabs. I believe now that

  7. Username, are you responding to both Eko and I? I didn’t mention the flight. That was recreating the circumstances of flight 815, not a previous crash of flight 316. That has nothing at all to do with time travel or changing the past.

    Explain how paradox doesn’t destroy everything? Do it without saying “the island makes it ok”. Because really, it’s Darlton’s baby, right? If they want to explain things like that away by just saying “because of the island” then it is their prerogative to do so… but I for one am going to lose interest in that quick, fast and in a hurry.

  8. we dont know what hawking knows. she doesnt even seem worried when desmond runs away. she wasnt worried when only a few 06 showed up. like she knew they would find their way. we all do.

  9. Ok, so lost discounts the butterfly effect? There are no small changes. And most of the theories on here about changing the past would result in changes that would obviously prevent the “changers” from going into the past to “change”. How do we change the past in Lost to a valuable effect without causing paradox?

  10. there are 2 ways to prevent a paradox that I can think of.

    1. prevent them from happening (knowingly)
    2. time self corrects any possibility of a paradox.

    take examples we have already seen, the bunny experiment by dr. chang. he infers that the bunnies are the same, so they can not be in contact so they prevent it, just as when john locke seen the light and ignored going over to see himself. well, in both cases, the paradox was avoided knowingly, and if it was not avoided time would self correct similar to how saywer and the gang were flashed out of the time periods where they were not suppose to be that could create a paradox.

  11. Well, coming into contact with yourself would only be a paradox because it’s something you already know doesn’t happen. Other than that I think it’s just something to be avoided for whatever reason…

    What do you think they should change while they’re back in the ’70s?

  12. the critical change that will need to happen preventing the purge. the purge was not suppose to happen, but did, hence opening a can of worms. bbl – lunch.

  13. Hmmm… but if the purge doesn’t happen then what will bring the Losties to the island?

    This is a paradox. One event cannot prevent itself. Supposing that change is possible, the Losties cannot change anything that would prevent them from getting to the island and travelling back in time. If they did that then they wouldn’t be there to prevent the purge. If they’re not there to prevent the purge then the purge will happen. If the purge happens then they’ll end up crashing on the island. Then they’ll go back in time and prevent the purge. This gets a bit repetitive.

  14. username, very nice thoughts! I really like how you have tied together a cohesive story surrounding the DI, and their mission.

    I like the idea of ‘the losties’ being somewhat unaware of what it is, they are changing. It makes for a much more interesting story surrounding their involvement, and allows freedom of choice to enter into the equation!

    Very plausible, IMO.

  15. thanks dabs,
    higbrow, in a mutable time line, the losties would not have had to come to the island, in fact they were never suppose to crash to begin with. fixing what changed is the key to restoring the time line and restoring what is the “correct future”.

    all these strange events are a result of dharma’s meddling with the way things are suppose to be. “What happened, happened” does not equate to no change. If something happened in the past which is caused by a time traveler changing things, than the future is rewritten. i think the desmond/faraday encounter is a prime example. we see the first glimpse of an actual message in the past reaching the future. whether this message will net result in a change of the past or future is indifferent. the past/present/future are interlocked.

    either your way or my way leads to some form of circular reasoning, but it doesn’t have to be. i see the same arguments with a mutable time line as with a immutable time line.

  16. Right, the flight wasn’t supposed to happen. I understand what you’re saying. But what I don’t understand is if they fix it and the flight doesn’t crash… how did they fix it? The flight didn’t crash so they weren’t there. If they weren’t there then it didn’t get fixed. Ah, then they were there, so it did get fixed. That’s a paradox.

  17. that could be viewed as a paradox if we are to take a certain perspective of how time and space operate

    lets view time as a sheet of music. The notes are written on the sheet in a particular pattern. these notes form the song (time line). someone with the ability comes in and makes a few changes to some notes, the song remains relatively the same when played and the changes are not so drastic to change the overall feel and recognition. now, this someone decides to get adventurist and overwrites a huge chunk of the song, this results in something totally different from the original intent of the song. maybe some notes are the same, but not enough for someone to associate the new song with the old song.

    the sheet of music is still the same sheet, but the music on the sheet had been rewritten. there is no paradox as the new song takes over the old song, and will play out based on the new notes as if the old song never existed (even though it did). the old song no longer has affect on the new song.

  18. highbrow,

    remember the brain wash video – only fools are enslaved by time and space.

    it seems as if dharma wished to play god, and understood how to “exist” outside the system to manipulate the system not realizing that their actions would lead to their own demise.

    a system can also be changed from within if you understand the rules.

  19. Well, the big argument for change is that the show wouldn’t be interesting if they can’t change anything. If they change anything of interest though it will cause a paradox.

    Without going into a long discussion explaining this I’ll just say that in order for that to work the person making the change would have to have always existed outside of the system. We’re talking about God. Like, the actual God. Allah. Yahweh. Whatever. Not a bunch of hippy scientists from Ann Arbor (they’d be happy to know that hippies still rule that town)…

  20. lol, about the hippies

    so you expect god to intervene? to make things right?

    why do you think that man can not chose his own destiny if given the knowledge on how to do so? why must man be outside the system so to speak?

    if there is no way other that to be out of the system, than maybe that’s what the island is – out side the system where the rules do not apply

  21. No, I don’t believe that God will step in to set things right. I don’t believe anyone will set the past in any way other than the way it already is.

    Destiny has nothing to do with the past. It has to do with the future. And there you have it. I believe they will change the future. It’s not the first time I’ve said it either. They will not change the past. They will change the future. That is their destiny.

  22. that’s all fine and dandy, but how exactly do you change the future without changing the past? how do you know what you needs to be change in the future if you can

  23. It’s not circular. Right now the only thing the Pasties are changing is who they are and what they know. Will they stay where they are or time travel again? I think they’ll time travel again myself. They’ll make a change but not until after 2007. But that could be next week for all we know.

  24. No, it hasn’t. We make the future as we go along. That’s my opinion. But it doesn’t matter to my theory if the future is predetermined or not. The important factor is that changing the future doesn’t carry the risk of paradox.

  25. actually i dont think dharma really has much to do with what happens…I think the oceanic 6 create it, every single thing we see is series 1 to 4, is the product of them going back to the 70s. The ending of series 6……the end…….will be a plane crash (I think), where everyone dies…because its the only way to stop time looping and getting messed up.
    Its also the only time they CAN die, because thats their only real “present”

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