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What could possibly change?
(5 votes, average: 3.4 out of 5)
Loading ...We all watched wide-eyed when we witnessed Sayid shoot young Ben! Many thoughts raced through our minds. One of our main thoughts, was did Sayid kill young Ben?
Given, that we have seen Ben in the future, I would think this did not happen. However, people who do not subscribe to ‘the change’ theories, can’t see what may happen as a result of Sayid’s actions.
We know that the very essence of Bejamin Linus’ character is based upon how cruel his father treated him as a child. Roger Linus made young Ben feel guilty over the death of his own mother! He was relentless to rub Ben’s face in it, at every turn. Roger’s own unhappiness and mental unwellness, was transferred onto young Ben, making his life so miserable that young Ben tried to run away. Roger was hardly what one would call a ‘father figure’, or role model. In fact, he was physically, emotionally, and psychologically abusive to his son. He was cold, callous and downright cruel.
As a child young Ben meets Richard Alpert, and Richard tells him that if he wants to join ‘the others’ that he must wait for awhile. Young Ben does this, until he meets a mysterious ‘hostile’ being held in the Dharmaville jail. It is at this time, young Ben seizes the moment, and befriends Sayid. He believes Sayid, is his ‘ticket’ out of Dharmaville and away from his abusive father. One could hardly blame him. But, Sayid has a plan of his own! He is going to kill young Ben, a child he knows grows up to become a ‘monster’ in his eyes, and the cause of much suffering.
We are all speculating about what will happen to young Ben. Will anyone want to save him, who will save him, and is this where young Ben forms a lifelong bond with Juliette, who we now believe is the woman in the future Ben is so smitten with.
I haven’t seen anyone speculate about how Roger Linus might react to the news of his son being shot, and perhaps clinging to life. People say change cannot occur, and it does not have a direct impact on the future. This statement is flawed, however. I will tell you why I believe it is flawed, in this instance.
Have you considered that Roger Linus might be so upset at losing another member of his family, (his only blood tie and link to his dead wife), that it is the one and ONLY event that could turn him around and treat his son differently?
What if Roger is so devastated at the near loss of his son, that it is sufficient enough for him to change how he treats young Ben? What if, he changes his abusive ways, and turns over a new leaf, stops drinking, and starts to become the father he could have been all along? A change so dramatic, that young Ben grows up differently!
What if, young Ben no longer wishes to leave his father, or Dharma. What if, young Ben never becomes one of ‘the others’ and remains in Dharmaville, perhaps becoming the new leader of Dharma, and negating ‘the purge’.
Would that not constitute a change so dramatic, that the future could play out very differently?
Given what we know about childhood trauma, Ben’s mindset was already formulated in early childhood to a degree. Think about what kind of leader Ben would make as Dharma’s leader!
Given that Jacob hates technology and ‘the others’ hatred of Dharma, having Ben as their opposition, just might be the one ‘lethal’ thing that sets up the stage for how the future plays out with dramatic flair.
Ben has known all along, what his objectives are in this game! Unfortunately, we are at a disadvantage. If you believe Ben would never send Sayid to a place where he knew Sayid would try to kill him, unless he knew it was for a different, and/or better outcome, you are correct!
Never underestimate the power of change! It is a mighty thing! Count on ‘change’ as playing a major part in the upcoming events, whether it plays out the way in which I’ve theorized this or not.
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About dabiatchishere:
~ Contrary to popular misconception, karma has nothing to do with punishment and reward. It exists as part of our holographic universe’s binary or dualistic operating system only to teach us responsibility for our creations—and all things we experience are our creations. ~
Post count: 42 | Comment count: 3051
@12:37:59
hmmm. highbrow would say… if ben grows up nice, and doesn’t start the purge then DI will press the button nicely and 815 wont crash… and the losties will never go back to the past for sayid to shoot ben. or if the purge happens now with ben in it… the freighter wouldnt come and cause ben to turn the wheel to make the losties time skip and end up in the past. so ben in both cases will not be shot in the past…caused by the fact that he was shot in the past.
paradox
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@12:54:27
hmmm, ekolocation! First off, you are not highbrow! Nobody does ‘the twist’ better than him, just for the record!
Secondly, young Ben was shot, at least on my t.v. and most likely everyone elses.
Lastly, do you have any positive thoughts or contributions, or does this pretty much sum up your thoughts?
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@13:06:04
OHHH, dabsi is running the show here I see, lol…and dedicated to me…(blush)…I love this. I LOVE THE STORY TELLING, and I LOVE the change…
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@13:08:02
…oh, and Im not done here…Im going to ponder these thought…enjoy them actually, and hopefully come back with something ‘positive thought and contrubutions’…lol…
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@13:12:03
AES, In view of your past few theories, I felt this might compliment some of your thoughts!
You are always positive, and duly noted for that! lol
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@13:17:48
Well, here I am… ready to do the twist. Eckolocation was right on though.
A change of this magnitude (making Ben a nice guy) would change everything… including the events that made him a nice guy! The freighter wouldn’t come, the DI wouldn
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@13:20:15
I’m sorry highbrow, I couldn’t possibly respond to your comment intelligently, even if I tried!
Your logic astounds me!
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@13:24:51
Yeah, there is no logic to what I said. What I was showing you was the result of your theory. The result is completely illogical.
Sayid cannot perform an action that would prevent him from performing that action. That is a paradox.
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@13:35:39
:@ dabsy
*worships highbrow*
Roger can’t turn over a new leaf grr
Otherwise there’s a vacancy for a human doorknob in the lost crew
Imagine it like this:
Sayid shot ben because ben was a Doorknob
Ben became a Doorknob because sayid shot him
*worships highbrow some more*
Good arguing though
Sorry but my teeth are sunk into the whatever happened happened theory :@ you won’t convert me!!! *twists head 360 drgrees*
Skil1
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@13:38:11
Skil1, far be it from me to attempt to convert you or highbrow!
that would be a monumental task, wouldn’t it?
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@13:43:33
It works both ways. I’m not arguing this point anymore because nobody is going to be converted either way.
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@14:25:51
I”m fairly sure of this. Even if our Lost writers and creators allow something to change, it won’t be until the very end of the series. There is no way, for instance, that Ben will die. Roger may change as a result of the shooting, but that won’t be a change of the timeline.
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@14:35:39
lost4815162342, I certainly made no mention of Ben dying, because I don’t see that happening.
Although, I do subscribe to a potential ‘alternative’ outcome, I made no mention of that in this theory.
The only thing, I am suggesting is, that ANY change in events, can and will effect the outcome, especially based upon how Roger reacts! That is a fact, and is the only subject I have spoken to.
This happens every day in real life. Why is this so hard to contemplate on a television show?
I am not suggesting aliens or zombies or anything else that is outlandish. I am suggesting ‘change’, which is a part of every day life! And, really not that difficult to understand, I believe.
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@16:29:29
there was a time where i believed whatever happens happens, but now i’m leaning more with dabs. maybe we are looking at this in the wrong angle completely. maybe, just maybe everything is changing, and the show is really about trying to bring things back to the way they should be, prior to all the changes. it’s worth a thought, even if my first posted theory was actually about trying to change something.
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@16:39:10
username, it would appear that some good natured fun on the site, has taken a turn and a few people are taking some of the comments as serious.
Most of us know highbrow is joking! I personally enjoy good humour!
Not myself, but the theory I wrote deserves better than a couple of the remarks it received. I place hard work and thought into what I post!
Thanks for always making a positive contribution.
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@16:40:49
Dabs!!!Ive been trying to post all night…internet keeps crashing though!
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@16:41:56
If I disappear, I apologize, but I have much to add to this…actually started three times, and lost connection each time
:[
Going to try again, bear with me if I leave unexpectedly…
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@16:44:54
Oh man, well ,I cannot keep doing this, and it keep being erased, so Ill be being short and blunt from here on out…probably…
Heres what I dont get…why everyne hangs on Faradays words, I have tackled this before, and it leads to him always being wrong, beginning to end. The only thing he is ever correct about, is that the island is travelling in time, and Vincent could have figured that out by now…
ANswer all my questions…and I may be just closeminded enough by then to accept that ‘whatever happened happened.’
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@17:04:58
On the other hand, Chang is a super reliable source…
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@17:08:49
AES, maybe it’s a nice catchy phrase! And, maybe people actually like the distraction highbrow creates.
Who knows?
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@17:10:59
Why is it that peoples defense on ‘no change’ leads to some scientific explanation.
The most logical choice in our real science world is that it would create alternate timlines of sort. Multiple dimensions.
Where does it say anywhere, that change would not be possible.
Who is to say, that Desmond changing Charlies date of death, isnt enough change.
They just havent tried to change more.
I have lost my train of thought and am rambling, but here is a question for the ages, and the non believers in change…
Why is it, that every person who writes a rebuttal to how the the past cannot be changed, is open to medical miracles…without the medical part, resurection, reincarnation, smoke monsters, walking dead, people seeing dead and living people on the isalnd for advice and direction, disappearing/time travelling islands, indeginous people/person that does not age, two of the exact same rabbits, in different timeperiods of their lives, together in the same room…at the same time, people being sent through time or portals or whatever to deliver messages, people physically travelling and concience traveling through time, cannot accept the fact that it is possible to change the past?
Explain why Desmond didnt actually change anything, if Charlie was supposed to die all those other ways. Maybe someone was supposed to take down the looking Glass, but I assure you, it wasnt meant to be the poor swimming, supposed to die a week ago Charlie. Explain why change is now, such a large part of the show.
And my personal favorite…when people argue day after day, that changing the past is not possible, yet at the end of their rant, they almost always say that the last episode/season of Lost, will be something big in changing the past?
Where is the faith people, where is the hope? Lost is more than about quantum physics…
Explain to me why you can believe all these other occurances on a timetravelling island, but are too close minded to ackowledge the fact that changing the past is possible…
…and then maybe after that understanding, I will be closeminded enough to accept ‘what’s done is done’.
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@17:13:45
Ok Dabs, I guess your comment above about your theory deserving better was directed at me? My first comment on this post was explaining why I disagree with this theory. I’m allowed to do that, right? I’m sorry if you thought I was being short with you or poking fun at your theory.
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@17:14:21
ANswer all my questions
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@17:14:32
Thanks for writing this. I doubt anyone will answer you though. Funny, I was just going to say highbrow, and his name popped up!
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@17:15:41
What do you believe the end of the show will be about Highbrow?
do you think a change in the past of some sort….or is this season just storytelling?
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@17:17:56
I will make them answer, if it takes putting up another theory…and another…and another….
I think Im in a timeloop…
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@17:20:19
Bailey brought up room23 yesterday…watch the video, look on Lostpedia, the room is designed around change…seasons ago…the video is about change, and breaking free from time…just like here…it doesnt just happen, you have to believe it will…
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@17:23:26
AES, I saw Bailey1227’s great theory, and responded to it, in kind.
I was so pleased when I read it.
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@17:24:35
AES, I’ve answered that question before. The change will take place sometime after the time flight 316 crashed on the island. Is it all story telling right now? Sort of. Maybe we should just stop watching now and wait for the finale… why watch all the stuff building up to that? So they’re in the past right now… does change have to happen now? Why can’t it happen later? Why can’t they move to the future and catch up with the 316ers and change things then?
We watched seasons 1-4 because we were seeing the Losties become who they are. That was story telling. That story isn’t over.
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@17:28:54
highbrow, Is what I just wrote not a story??? A very well thought out one at that, and presented in a similar fashion.
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@17:31:41
I wait on this…WHY? Why does the science of Lost change the last episode, when it is IMPOSSIBLE at the moment…what, do we go to a parallell dimension where rules are different? no, no, thats IMPOSSIBLE… Maybe Ill just go ask the dead guy walking around eating a mango if he thinks its possible to change the past…I mean, that is if I am in the same time period as him still, and if the other living dead people, or the MONSTER MADE OF PILLARS OF SMOKE doesnt get in my way…and of course as long as old ‘I can see the future, and change whats supposed to happen’ Desmond hasnt already changed something anyway, making me have to wait a week before doing so…
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@17:32:31
As I’ve said before, Desmond never changed the past. He changed the future. Those are different things.
You have never heard me end a rant with “the show will end with a major change to the past”.
Do you think Fate was thinking of having a specific person, a strong swimmer, go down to the looking glass?
Medical miracles, all that… there is one very, very major thing that those things have in common that changing the past through time travel does not. They do not act to prevent themselves.
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@17:33:55
So you think that nothing is going to happen that has not already happened.
That change will occure in the future of the island…
That wouldnt be change, that would be an occurance happening in present time..
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@17:40:12
Dabs, I honestly don’t know what you’re getting at with that last comment. I am not poking fun at your post. I didn’t say it was poorly written. I didn’t say it was poorly thought out. I just don’t agree with it. Didn’t you tell me that you’re here for logical discussion and debate? Why is your only argument to tell me that I’m illogical and I don’t use common sense? I can ask the same question. WHY? Why do I need to present evidence to support my case and all you need to do it say “I couldn
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@17:46:41
And what’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with them learning the things they need to know to save the world by going on a strange journey though time?
Like I said. I have no problem with miracles, smoke monsters, supernatural healing…. Nobody can say why those things can’t happen. Changing the past? That’s different.
I’m done on this topic. I hope this disagreement doesn’t color our discussion on other topics. It should be obvious to you that I’m not changing my mind. It’s obvious to me that you’re not changing your mind. I just wanted to state my case, not to convert anyone.
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@17:47:13
highbrow, not once have you ever backed up any of your claims with any evidence. And, it has not been because I haven’t asked you to do that!
You seem to be having some good natured fun, and I have no problem with that!
I have always stated, I am open to debate that is backed up with evidence, whether that evidence be faith based, scientific, paranormal, etc.
Maybe I’m just tired of debating the same subject matter with the same person/s.
So, in future I will stick to writing theories which appeal to the masses and don’t address things of this nature, and do us all a favour.
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@17:48:14
highbrow, I think you should be proud of your efforts!
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@17:51:07
Desmond changed the future?
No….what happened was Desmond SAW the future. He SAW what happened. He SAW Charlie die, several times.
This wasnt a dream, or a vision, this was the future. It appears to us, the viewer, that he changed the future.
But to him, from his perspective, it happened. Charlie died. He snaps out of his trance, and intervenes with the present…to change the past that he SAW occur.
I cannot emphasize the fact that the perspective you view the show from what you will perceive. In order to see…to feel..what the characters are going through, you have to put yourself into their shoes. You have to allow yourself to understand, that the people who say the past cannot be changed, havent experienced what Desmond has.
He doesnt change the future. He changes the PAST that he saw, before it happened, in the present.
Desmond is more than just an ESP equipped, anomoly on lost. He is the perfect example, on a small scale, of the future of the show. A model, if you will, to a better, easier understanding.
We just cannot allow ourselves, yet again, that something can occur, that we cannot fully wrap or brains around.
Instead, we resort to ‘the past is the past’, and only believe things once we see them occur, rather than having the ability to allow ourselves the openmindedness necessary, to predict the impossible.
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@17:53:29
See, I don’t know if you’re being serious or sarcastic. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and take you seriously. I’ve taken everything you’ve said since I came to this site seriously… I haven’t agreed with all of it but I’ve taken it seriously.
I can’t say I feel that I’ve been taken seriously. Whatever, I don’t care. I’m moving onto other topics.
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@17:54:50
No Dabs, thats what most do. Write to the masses. This post was dedicated to me, and I will not allow anysuch nonsense of “So, in future I will stick to writing theories which appeal to the masses and don
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@17:57:27
I believe she means in terms of defending the undefendable…and I (and Dabs) Im sure take you seriously, or we wouldnt try to sway you so…
But in terms of this topic, and the upcoming episode, I dont know of another topic thats more important, or more worthy of discussion.
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@17:59:56
Yeah, there is no logic to what I said. What I was showing you was the result of your theory. The result is completely illogical”
I also believe this is the comment she refers to…
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@18:00:32
AES, I was excited to read your great theories last night. I had this one burning to get out.
I thought it was a great topic in lieu of tomorrow nights episode, but am now soured entirely on this post.
I just wish it would go away. Just like I am going to do right now.
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@18:04:08
Dabsi, there are two sides to this.
You are going to have people not believe…relax, trust me…It will make it all the more glorious when you are correct…and even better, when they are wrong….
Its a great theory, compliments everything I believe in on Lost, and your return, has renewed my faith in change…
Well done…and DAMN glad to have you back!
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@18:06:12
As viewers of a show we’re privvy to Desmonds visions. It’s important to ignore what we saw in order to get the proper perspective. After you do that you’ll see that Desmond simply did what Desmond did and the things that happened to Charlie are just the things that happened to Charlie.
The man with the red shoes died the way he did. Nobody else is privvy to those visions so if Hawking had saved him he’d have died another way. And to all other observers that’s just the way he died. Simple as that.
Now, I have presented evidence to support my theory. I’ve also pointed out the lack of evidence against it. We can detect change the same way we can detect a black hole. By observing and measuring it’s effects. The effect of changing the past in any of the ways Lost viewers have speculated that the past is changed on the show is paradox. Since we have not observed a paradox we know change hasn’t occured.
That is my argument. It’s simple and logical. I’m not going to try to take away from your argument. I know you’ve throught this through and you’ve got it all straight. But if you’re going to tell me that I don’t use common and that I’m illogical. I interpret that as stupid which isn’t a stretch.
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@18:08:52
Well Dabs, I appologize if my comment was harsh. I was responding to what I interpreted as a harsh comment directed at me. I’m sorry if I misinterpretted that.
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@18:10:54
Have you ever fought for something so much and won?
You are in intelligent enough person that I know you have. How does that feel?
There is really no argument for ‘no change’ on Lost, except that Dan and Eloise said it cannot happen.
Yet we see Des, change Charlies fate. Take it how you want, he changed SOMETHING.
What would Desmond have seen if Charlie had died?
Changing the future is as simple as changing the present. Action…Reaction. Theres no need for science on this.
We saw it happened. We see it everyday of our lives.
Let them have their science on Lost…Ill take faith on Lost any day of the week.
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@18:13:04
How is…
“It
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@18:16:20
“After you do that you
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@18:17:22
Because you only get to see that because you’re watching a television show. It’s just a device to let you know what’s going on in Desmond’s head.
Desmond changed the past? Who’s past? People in the future? The futures past is the present. That’s what Desmond changed. We change the present all the time because we have free will and that’s what we do with free will. How is it changing the past when Desmond does it just because he has knowledge of the future? No, wait. Knowledge of possible future events…
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@18:21:25
AES, I always fight for what I believe in. That isn’t going to change.
I know highbrow, and therefore, do not hold anything against him, the comments he makes nor the arguments he gives.
I have never been disrespectful to any member on this site. I keep my comments positive, even if I strongly debate and challenge some ones theory.
I am not happy to see, what I saw with a couple of comments in this post by people who are trying to emulate highbrow. Only highbrow knows how to pull that off properly. Anyone else just comes off as being disrespectful.
I don’t give it out, and I do not expect to receive it back for any reason, whatsoever!
Unfortunately, it was so off putting to me, it left me unable to effectively dialogue any debate with anyone.
I am offended that some people think this is suitable behaviour!
I hope that clarifies my present mood. It’s nothing personal directed at highbrow or yourself.
You know me better than that!
I said this at the top of the page!
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@18:22:17
Desmond didn’t experience anything! He had a vision, like a dream. And because those things he’s seeing are possible events that happen IN THE FUTURE there is no risk of paradox. In the past a change could easily erase your ability to make that change. The future isn’t written. At some point he gets a vision giving him information about the future. He acts on that information in the present. What could he possibly change in the future that would prevent him from receiving that vision? Nothing. So it’s different.
But it isn’t the past that Desmond is changing.
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@18:24:24
Dabs, I’m taking that last comment to mean that there are no hard feelings between you and I and for that I’m very happy. I’m sorry that this discussion has put you in this kind of mood. I’m getting a little pissed at the writers of this show for presenting us with something like this!
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@18:27:50
You said it yourself…
Desmond does it just because he has knowledge of the future? No, wait. Knowledge of possible future events
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@18:27:59
We be cool, highbrow.
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@18:36:28
Dabs, kewl.
AES, um… So you’re saying that Desmond was in a trance but he wasn’t having a vision? You’re saying that he travelled to the future, experience Charlies death, travelled back and prevented what he saw?
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@18:36:34
Its not a dream…he saw the places and things that are in his ‘experiences’. He saw them in his…’dreams’ before he saw them in real life.
He knows Charlie drowns with a blinking light, before he knows there is a blinking light.
How is this in any way a dream, or not real. Did the light only exist because he saw it in his dream?
What is so hard to believe about this?
Why can you believe in timtravel, but not things that would result in such travel?
Do you really think it would be a simple viewing experience?
That your interaction with anything would cause no consequences?
If the Losties went back in time, it is changing the past. Because at some point, the past became the present to some in it, that are from the future. And you have said so yourself you can change the present, and you can change the future, so why cant Sawyer or anyone else change their present, just because it is someone elses past?
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@18:37:41
To answer your last question simply…yes.
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@18:42:15
Ok, I won’t call it a dream anymore. It is real. He’s still changing the future, not the past. And changing the future doesn’t create paradox so it’s possible.
Sawyer and crew can do whatever the heck they want! They can say “let’s do this to change the future this way” or “let’s just hang out and see what happens”. From the 2004 point of view, whatever happened, happened. Whatever they decide to do is what the record will show what was done.
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@18:43:04
Yes? He physically travelled to the future? That is defnintely not how I interpretted that…. I still don’t think that’s what happened?
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@18:48:11
fellow bloggers, we are being fooled by the writers into thinking nothing can change or has changed. i’ve now defected to the other side. these writers are clever in presenting the story in such a way to convince us that nothing is changing.
i propose that nothing is staying the same and everything is changing or has already changed. everything we are seeing is a new present which leads to a new future.
dharma has had this ability for a while now and that is the reason they exist and the reason they wished to possess the island. the hostiles are there to protect the island from misuse and abuse of time. richard is the gate keeper and he is trying to keep the gate shut.
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@18:49:17
in essence, ben is the good guy.
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@18:58:47
Oh, well… if username says so then I guess we can just change the past then, heh? Yeah, count me in…
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@19:00:21
They did not show us the episode the constant, to only explain brain anyurisms on Lost.
From Desmonds perspective, it is his past, after the ‘experience occurs’.
He sees the future…(not physically)….
Really think about this. Please. I normally dont care if people see what I find correct. I want you to really just try to understand this. It makes sense. I would like you to come to the understanding, of at least the possibility, of this change occuring, that changes something that we KNOW on Lost.
I am not trying to be right, for the wrong reasons. I joke around, but its not to gloat, or bragging rights.
I want you to understand, because you bring so much to this site, that once you at least let there be a chance, you will be able to understand some of the other things.
The future, is only the future, to those who have not, or cannot see it. Once they see something occur, it is now in THEIR past. The present is only an instant, enough to react without thinking. Take too long, and you will be in the future, with only the past to regret.
There is more to it, on Lost, than just the science of man.
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@19:04:30
There is more to Lost than just the man of science. Yeah, I know. But the man of faith isn’t the end all be all either.
AES, you’re just going to have to trust me when I say that I do understand what you’re saying. I don’t agree. If you’re expecting that once I understand what you’re saying I’ll immediately think you’re right then you’re going to be disappointed. I get it. I do. I’m not onboard though. Sorry. I have my own idea on this and I’m convinced of it. If I didn’t have my own idea on this topic then tell me, how much would I really be bringing to this site?
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@19:05:27
Sorry… I meant to say science of man and faith of man…
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@19:07:15
He doesnt have to physically be in the future, to experience it.
And username…we are past the if?…lol…we are deep into the meaning of life why, who, what, where, and how?…lol…seriously…dont do this to yourself…Ive been trying to stop for the last hour…I think highbrows been trying for a week…lol…Im seriously never letting this go…it characterizes a person…or drives them to #$*@*# insanity…I havent decided which yet
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@19:08:32
I think it characterizes a person as insane… or gives a person insane character? STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT!
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@19:12:05
Right, I’m saying I don’t think he goes to the future physically.
My point is that what Desmond does can never result in a paradox. That makes it different. He can make changes (if you can even call it that) in the present based on knowledge of the future. It’s important that he does this without traveling back in time where he could affect his younger self.
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@19:23:33
Thats just it…I know you are wrong…I say that with regret and respect, not out of anger or happiness…I am not a sore winner, and know that you wouldnt just rollover like that…that is what makes you unique to the site…I am aware of that…I just meant that you would be able to produce more ideas. Add more insight to the different posts on change than this repetative argument.
Its not that I hate it, what else would I do right now if you werent here disagreeing still…well past your normal hour.
You dont really try to persuade me, and although curiosity killed the cat, I have to know why?
You are very quick, to jump in and say that someone is wrong about the current discussion.
You say you understand me, you just dont agree. I hoestly dont have the option to choose. I dont understand your reasoning.
I understand your premise. What you support, and what it means on the show. But I dont understand why. Why do you feel this way. What really supports this on the show.
I dont know. I can tell your about done for the night, so answer if you want. I just dont get it. Why so stubborn on this subject.
I have tried, honestly.
Especially with Dabsi gone for a few days, I tried to let this in. It just doent work.
Well, Im rambling, and becoming bored. Timeout is necessary.
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@19:28:06
BTW…you think this is bad…poohbear from the ending comments on “Where are you all from?”…his head is going to explode when he reads this…lol
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@19:42:50
How do you know I’m wrong? Do you write for the show? Are you basing your ideas on spoilers that you read? Either that you think I’m wrong… but you don’t know it. I think you’re wrong.
For the record, I’m not accusing you of basing your theories on spoiler information… But some people on this site do…
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@19:47:21
I know you’re wrong because…. no, wait… hold on…
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@19:59:01
nbc.com has the first season of Quantum Leap available on their website so I’m going to get into bed and watch the only man who can really change the past…
Scott Bakula.
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@20:02:36
You should know me better than that. The ultimate reason I do this is for fun. I dont mean I know it like that. And if I wrote for the show, or visited spoiler sites, I dont think I would be wrong nearly as much as I am, lol, which is with almost everything.
But I really dont think it is the case here.
I mean I know, as in…from a writers perspective. It takes away sooo much of a plot angle. They have built too much around it. I guess I know it as one knows faith, I just believe it that much for reasons beyond what I said here.
It just seems that the story has more meaning than just what along the lines of nothing is supposed to, or should happen.
That you have control. They have built too much on that side of it. Too much on change to leave it ‘whatever happened, happened’.
And to leave the timeperiod without something major changing would be a letdown at this point. Not from being wrong on the theory, but out of dissapointment for allowing the notion to even exist. To show us all of this and say, his is all because of the Losties, now were going back to the ‘correct’ timeperiod to finish the story. All the clues about change and timetravel meant nothing but a part of the storyline to get you here…The entire mystery of the show would be nothing short of an ‘island fashback’, as described by some.
We all know the Losties have something at this point, to do with problems between the Hostiles and Dharma Initiative. So, yes, I want to know what happened to them, but to have that be all thats left would be almost insulting.
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@20:09:54
And that explains your peception of timetravel….Have a good evening ‘SAM’…give it some thought…never know…might change your mind.
Ps…i am slightly insulted in the comments regarding the spoiler site…but its ok…I know you need a scientific explanation for everything, lol…sometimes people just know things….I swear, I havent been on a spoiler site since I caught up on season 2 on DVD, just before season 3, ….this name didnt exist back then…at least to me
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@20:53:07
Like I said, I wasn’t accusing you… But there are people on this site who write theories that are mainly just rewrites of spoilers.
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@20:54:22
Btw…I see youre on…Im getting to the bottom of something on another post…something you commented on…about a darker place..
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@20:55:00
it seems things may repeat after all…
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@21:44:05
Ooooooohhh boy that was a lot to get through to catch up. I feel like I just rode a roller coaster…whew.
Highbrow - way to keep your humor in the midst of a contingent of comments where your opinion is in the minority. (Doesn’t mean that everyone disagrees, just the comments were…) I respect you for that, and it makes it easier to read and consider your point of view…even though I disagree. I like your comments because it forces me to weigh out my thoughts more substantially.
I still have to think that we wouldn’t be shown such major clues ‘in the past’ (couldn’t resist) episodes/seasons that have to do with “Special” abilities and scenarios like with Desmond, if it wasn’t for where we were headed now. I agree with AES — man I have to scroll for like 5 minutes to find the comment I agree with — so nevermind…
He said something to the effect of “if change isn’t possible, and all we are seeing from here on out is the whatever happened, happened…” it will be for a rather disappointing finish.
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@21:51:52
I dont mean the show is a disapointment, I just mean after all we’ve been through, they’ve been through, we deserve more than just this season telling a simple story. I seriously think that we will soon learn, that the 2007, 8 whatever, is different on island due to something that is occuring in the 1977 storyline. Hence the picture on the wall. That is not to say the DI doesnt parish in some way. Everyone dies…sort of.
But just that it doesnt have to happen the way it did. The purge doesnt have to occur.
I dont think any of the people we see will make it to the end. At least in the way I would like them to. I dont doubt in some horrible way, sacrifice will be made for the world.
I dont think that it has to happen the way it is ’supposed to’. The change may be for the worst, but I feel there will be change non the less.
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@21:57:23
Although he present himself in a cerebral, intellectual, sophisticated, thoughtful kind of way…hey, he should have named himself along those lines…and maybe something funny to go with the humor…a picture of somesort…
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@22:10:00
Yes, AES…I know what you meant. And I too have thought along the lines of more sacrifice is coming…
I mean, we wouldn’t be given that line from Christian if it was only for John.
That is truly another thing I’ve learned in dissecting the clues - it’s not just that there are no coincidences on the show, it is that we have to take into consideration the double meanings of statements/scenarios that are foreshadowing what is to come. (Again, like Desmond having flashes, then the island has flashes, etc.) I know you know what I mean…I’m rambling…
I think you and Highbrow saying you are the same user arguing with yourself is actually one of the funnier subplots around here these days.
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@22:10:50
AES - can I take your presence to mean that you are in my timezone?
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@22:13:46
Oh and yes, thanks for bringing something up that has been slightly bugging me…
I am under the impression that Sun, Frank, Ben, Locke - all the other 316ers are in 2007. Why have people said 2008?
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@22:15:44
I have no idea. I was on yesterday and it was everywhere. I guess we dont know for sure that it is 2007, but it makes a lot more sense than 2008.
BTW, check out my recent comments in my “story” from yesterday…
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@22:16:27
What timezone would that be? :]
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@22:20:00
They are in 2007. Didn’t we see in “Namaste”—”30 Years Earlier” when it would go to Sawyer/Jack/Kate, etc.?
I might not follow physics well, but I do know basic math.
And besides, Kate always was hollering/whining, “I’ve been trying to forget for three years…”
We’re right.
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@22:20:17
PST
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@22:26:03
No, lol, I just sleep as much as Ben tells the truth.
There will be plenty of time for that later.
Uh oh, I may have said too much, lol…
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@22:34:40
Plenty of time for sleep yes, but I’m sure hoping your not implying that one day we’ll see Ben tell the truth. That would really confuse me.
As for me, AES the Night Owl, I am done. Like I said, this theory was great but working through the comments made me feel happy/confused/smart/confused/happy/sad/happy…etc…I’m out now.
Come up with something brilliant, again please!
And Dabsi - glad to have you back! Nice writing and nice theory as always! It’s truly like getting to read another chapter from the script…wondering, is this where they will take it?!?
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@23:42:35
I’m on the fence about whether or not the losties can change something in the past… but it seems to me the way they can change things in their present situation is by gaining previously unknown information from the past or sending a message to the future (aka comic con video) that influences the present/future.
I draw on this from The Constant. While Desmond is conscience traveling he makes Penny tell him her phone number. This directly affects the future because once he flashes back he now has the information he needs to call Penny and save himself.
If our losties get back to the future as I’m sure they will, what knowledge will they have gained about dharma/the island/ the others that will enable them to change things in 2007? Also, can they send a message to the future that will change the present/future instead of changing anything in the past?
I don’t post very often so please don’t rip me too hard!
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@06:36:01
Why does “whatever happens, happens” have to mean that change can’t occur? I think this could be just an example of course correction. Maybe Daniel knows that even if he tried to change things in the past that the end result stays the same. It becomes an excersize in futility at some point. He is faced with something that he thought he could change only to see the result turn out the same way. Just something that has been in my mind is that he almost seemed like when Charlotte died he came to that conclusion at that point. Maybe because he, at some point, tried to change the future. Maybe he did save Charlotte from the purge only to have her come back to the island, and through course correction, she died on the island like she should always have done.
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@08:32:21
kimberly, glad you enjoyed the theory and I am glad to be back up and running.
I don’t think it much matters if this is the direction Roger Linus takes. It was a good angle to cover in terms of representing how easily change occurs, when unexpected events present themselves.
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@08:34:47
Dabsi!!!
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@08:35:47
NMB, It is perfectly okay to be still sitting on the fence! It shows you are giving deep thought to the issue.
Bringing up Desmond writing Penny’s phone number speaks to this very issue, and also bringing up the numbers which were being broadcast.
Even the tiniest of details, should indicate that change is present throughout the story.
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@08:37:51
Losthead, you are correct. That whole statement is one of the greatest misnomers the writers have ever placed into the storyline, IMO.
It is quite brilliant for them to do this, as it will keep viewers interest and the theory lines burning until they finally let us know.
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@08:39:59
NMB! You the man! It’s true that the show can be interesting and go somewhere without changing the past! Awesome!
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@08:40:56
Or woman… I don’t know… your name and picture are gender non-specific… Anyway, good cooment!
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@08:41:34
I mean comment… Sigh… I’m retarded.
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@08:43:22
AES/highbrow thanks for ‘duking it out’ and keeping this issue at the forefront!
I definitely appreciate your hard work and efforts. I don’t know how anyone could not subscribe to the theory of change occurring when you both have illustrated and demonstrated it so vividly.
The story I wrote, is to place emphasis on how one event CAN and DOES change the outcome of any situation.
I personally don’t know how this could be wrong, but alas, I am not writing the show.
Thanks again for your efforts!
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@08:57:35
sorry, ive been working, i would have been backing you up highbrow, and now there are so many comments and anger mixed in with actual theory i dont know where to begin…
first that there is no current change on the island. dharma is not there. still. sun and frank found dharma abandoned, the only people who would currently be on the island would be the others(and christian) which seems still accurate.
when u say highbrow has no evidence, i hope you are joking. i have read many a comment by highbrow backed up by evidence and i have too, my theory on no change is based on ALL the lost episodes i have seen…not by a single faraday comment.
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@08:58:27
This is why I liked the course correctors theory so much. It seem to make perfect sense in that maybe fate course corrects the things that were always supposed to happen. It shows that maybe you can change things but that some things are just too important to the timeline to change completely, therfore the course is corrected.
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@09:00:30
Eko, thanks… We’re not alone in our theory but we are few and outnumbered. The battles have been pitched and brutal… there are heros on both sides…
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@09:01:53
What evidence has been provided? I have seen no specific evidence showing that one theory is more proven than the other. Highbrow is stuck on the paradox issues. I think this has a tendancy to cloud his vision slightly. Not to say he is wrong or right, just seems like he doesn’t see all sides of the debate. If he could give any shred of evidence saying one way or the other then things change, but until then it seems we may be at an impass.
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@09:07:04
well losthead, i disagree that neither side has evidence, but i agree that neither side has sufficient evidence. there is evidence on both sides. and it wouldnt rock my core to find that real changes can occur, but i dont believe it will.
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@09:09:57
What evidence? Who what when why and where?
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@09:16:27
ethan is born after losties saved amy.
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@09:16:45
I think some may confuse evidence with opinion. Your opinion is in no way evidence. But what do I know that is just my opinion.
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@09:28:30
How do we know Amy was in any real danger anyway? I wonder if she is in with the others and that is why she was so quick to execute Sayid. Either she doesn’t know him, or she doesn’t want him to give her up to the Darmaites. See how opinion can also make my theory seem feesible.
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@09:33:00
i stated a fact, you added opinion to fact. and i usually dont feel in danger when someone puts a bag over my head. happens all the time
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@09:33:04
Amy knew all along that she was in no danger and therefore Ethan would still be born and in no real danger from the others because she is in cahoots with the others.
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@09:35:35
They were pulling a Ben acting like she was getting caught so if somehow someone comes along it alieviates any suspicion she is a Darma mole. We don’t actually know Ethan was in any danger. You did the same thing with opinion in your statement. Your opinion is that Ethan was in some danger when the fact is we do not know that.
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@09:37:26
also… in a trial. there is evidence. evidence is not irrefutable. it can be challenged, questioned and interpreted. then the jury decides which interpretation of the evidence is correct. its exactly what we are doing here. dont worry, i wont bring about reasonable doubt, but perhaps a little occam’s razor would do us all some good
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@09:38:54
they were in a place they werent supposed to be… who would come along?
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@10:01:50
Maybe her husband who was shot dead surprised her with lunch and came upon them being friendly. See this is how “evidence” is all dependant on how you interpret it. That is what is great about this site, you can see how everyone else interprets what we see from week to week. I have never said that Highbrow or you Eko are wrong I just think that I see it differently. I also think when someone has blinders on and is close minded then they are only limiting the thought process. I appreciate Highbrow because he questions things, but he could do himself some favors by opening up a little. If he wa more open minded he may see the evidence he needed or be able to have more open ended conversations that will take his thoughts somewhere. Just my opinion and in no way do I mean offense.
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@10:06:27
Yeah, I’m just watching this exchange from the sidelines. I am every bit as open minded about this issue as those I’ve been debating with on the other side. We’ve been talking about this for a long time now. I started out very open and as I thought about it I became convinced that I have it right. I’m not being close minded about this at all.
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@10:06:32
yeah i know u dont mean offense, out tone was getting a little harsh and i also apologize. i was actually waiting for highbrow to make a joke…but he failed me… ah well. i hope we have more insight after tonight.
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@10:07:55
I actually like Highbrow, because he will occasionally make me think. That is a good thing when we hypothesize, it helps people form opinions and theories.
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@10:10:21
But the fact that you could be wrong makes it even more valuable to question. My search for information never ends even when I think i’m right because I know I may not be.
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@10:11:54
This also helps others bring valuable thoughts to the discussion. If we create nuggets of info in some peoples minds then that furthers the theories on this site. So its all good. Just feeling the flow, doing the bull dance.
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@10:16:56
HIGHBROW, you make me think sometimes too, think Im going crazy, lol
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@10:17:40
I apologize for the openminded comments yesterday, I am assuming that last one of yours was directed at me…
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@10:19:15
It blows my mind that I’ve heard so many times while discussing this topic that I need to consider the possibility that I might be wrong while those I’m debating with have done no such thing.
AES, you are going crazy… look at you talking to yourself! Wait, look at me… GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
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@10:19:59
AES, I was responding to LostHead…
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@10:20:41
this is a half joke, but it kinda works maybe. so have you seen bill and teds excellent adventure (or was it bogus journey)? first off, great movies haha.
secondly, they change the past (nevermind taking historical figures out of their time periods). They change their own past, as long as they remember to go back and do the things that change the past they are able to do it. does that work highbrow?
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@10:20:55
You do make me think thuogh, as does this post, in different ways. I really try to give the no change a chance, but I just dont see how it would happen that way, due to all the hidden references on change.
Its like the loop idea, no please dont start on that..
Its just with many references to a loop, it makes sooooo much sense that there is one occuring somewhere..not that there is anything concrete to go on, just that it is where the show seemed to be going..
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@10:22:23
now thinking about it i dont think thats how it went in the movie. any keanu reeves buffs that know how time travel worked in those works of staggering genius?
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@10:23:55
Well, when we find out that the past cannot be changed then you’d better hope there isn’t a time loop… the show will be incredibly boring. On the other hand they could save a fortune on production costs by showing the same episode week after week…
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@10:25:16
….sigh….
i just cant…
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@10:25:34
Highbrow when you stop taking information in then you become closed minded I am not saying you are right or wrong but what I think is even though you may be right you can still absorb info.
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@10:28:25
Well, please reserve your judgement until you’re sitting next to me while I’m reading and posting. I read everything that others post. I process that information and I put it together with all the rest. I am not discounting everything everyone else says without considering it first.
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@10:29:26
Come on AES! Tell me about the time loop! Is that why Kate has such strong shoulders? Is that how Ethan became so strong? Is that how Hurley got so fat! It that why Jack is always out of breath?
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@10:30:42
Not worried that you haven’t considered everything until you figured it all out but on the off chance that you are wrong it sure does help to have all the info I would think.
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@10:31:57
This, is the wrong battle to fight against him losthead..
Dozens of theories, and hundreds, maybe thousands of comments at this point have not swayed him…
I get his thinking, and admitting that he WAS openminded on it is enough to convince me he tried. My word is all any of you have to go on as well, and at this point, I am oficially bowing out of this battle, at least with highbrow…
btw…highbrow, did you see my “story” on ‘Fools…’ in fun…
I have the proof to back the answer….
So much for number three on your list of mysteries…
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@10:32:50
lol, Jack out of breath is my favorite…
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@10:33:09
I did see it and I commented there. I think the bodies in the cave are Mr and Mrs Gary Nadler.
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@10:33:13
I am not judging you I don’t have it figured out so you have a step up on me. I just reserve my thoughts on exactly what I think is possible with this show. I don’t claim to know it all because I think we all can still find things that we just were not quite sure about.
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@10:36:56
Nobody knows anything about this show except the writers. I suppose we could just get together and make a list of what is possible but that’s going to be a very long list and it’s not going to be very fun.
My mind is open but I’m not likely going to be swayed on this issue until we get more evidence. Thats because we’ve been over this soooo much already that we’ve gone over everything. Tell me something about this theory that I don’t know and maybe that will get me.
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@10:37:11
Now I am done with this convo. so I thank you guys for the chat and hope that we can further our future hypotheses without the talks about who is right or who is wrong because I think there may be elements of truth in everything that is said. Thank you. LH out.
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@10:37:50
We didn’t just start debating this yesterday… it’s not like I just stepped in and said “this is how it is”. My position has been reached through a few weeks worth of really good discussion.
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@10:39:27
Wow you just sucked me back in because there are a few things that we know that the writers know as well. Such as Kate has manly shoulders, and Jack is perpetually out of breath.
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@10:40:29
But to say that you have the answers and can’t be swayed seems a little close minded.
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@10:41:50
Ok, yeah… those are Lost facts. Kate can lift Hurley over her head because she’s in a time loop perpetually doing shoulder presses. Jack is always out of breath because he’s constantly runny everywhere… like a gerbil on a wheel… Hurley is just eating constantly in his time loop…
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@10:42:32
Well, the people I’ve been debating with say they have the answers and cannot be swayed so it really just seems fair.
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@10:44:31
Yeah I get it but the thing is that when we all close the mind then we end up debating whether or not Kate can military press Hurley 25 times or 35 times. I just think that we always need to question. Thats my whole persona I like to question things.
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@10:45:45
BTW more likely 35 times!
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@10:45:50
I CAN be….I almost have been…Im just not, good disscusion here today
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@10:47:09
We pretty much decided last night that the debate was over… now we’re just kind of chilling out…
And Kate has strong shoulders. I’d be happy to get more information as to the strength and tone of her pecs but until then I don’t think we can speculate on how much she can military press…
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@10:48:03
AES, last night you told me you knew you were right. You said you know. No room for doubt there.
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@10:49:50
So be it…just trying to be open minded, lol..
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@10:50:14
ana lucia could have benched pressed more. shes beastly.
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@10:50:30
Go comment on my purge theory then… remember to be open minded.
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@10:53:45
Yeah, Ana Lucia was like a dude…
Oh, did you guys read the latest spoiler? It’ll be revealed tonight that Jack is pregnant.
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@11:00:21
That could explain the lack of breath. Ana Lucia is a man amongst boys for sure.
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@11:07:02
Ew. What does that make Sawyer?
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@11:15:17
THEORY!! Sawyer will find out ana lucia is a man. defect to the others, and become mr friendly realizing that he is gay. he is no longer interested in kate when he is older and is finally killed by his younger self. beautiful.
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@11:16:20
Plausible Eko!
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@11:25:23
Oh, I like it… Maybe Sawyer gets Jack pregnant too…
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@11:42:44
Jack and Sawyer have a baby girl named Kate.
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@11:43:53
They go back in time and have a baby girl named Kate. Then later they both have sex with her. My God.
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@11:44:20
Who is kinda manly and can military press more than anyone else in the Dharma initiative.
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@11:47:20
Yeah… probably because she has two dads.
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@12:05:12
The picture becomes a little more clear.
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@12:06:45
clearer, yet in other terms quite dirtier
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@12:13:01
I’ve said it before. Season Six isn’t going to be on ABC. It’ll be on Cinemax at 2am.
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@12:15:16
but when will they air horny housewives?
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@12:18:52
Digress much?
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@12:37:45
I was going to say, “look what these boys have done to your post Dabs!”
Yes, a little digression. It reminds me that last week, via a similar digression, we ‘decided’ that Jacob is Boone & Shannon’s love child from that one creepy night stand they had.
I REALLY think it’s time for a new episode!
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@12:40:08
kimberly, I missed that whole discussion and I still haven’t read through the comments.
Either a new episode is in order, or a change of scenery! lol
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@12:45:28
I don’t think you necessarily NEED to go back and find that discussion…
I think Highbrow started it with Kate’s shoulders again…
He can be a bit unruly around here sometimes.
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@12:55:07
What? You’re blaming me for that!
Well fellahs, looks like the ladies have arrived… better clean up this language…
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@13:00:06
Highbrow, well I can’t blame Bailey! And besides, you’re such an easy target these days.
Seriously, I wouldn’t even know where to tell Dabs to look for all that nonsense. (Just like this lovely post had nothing to do with Jack, Kate, and Sawyer…)
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@13:09:46
I remember that conversation quite clearly… you guys were all “blah, blah, blah, potty, potty, off-subject comment” and I was all “guy, come on. Let’s talk about Lost. Let’s be serious.” and you guys were all “Relax, square! Here! Smoke a joint, have a beer…”… But I was steadfast in my resolve so I said “Lost speculation is important to me! I will not pollute myself with drugs and alcohol!”… Then you guys said “Jack is going to have a baby because he’s in a time loop and he can’t get out… and Sawyer is going to eat Jin with syrup and powdered sugar”…
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@13:17:27
i remember that conversation quite clearly aswell! That is NOT how it went down….it was Hurley eating Jin. Saywer eating Jin, ha! That’s crazy talk highbrow. Straight crazy talk.
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@13:21:55
Oh… I thought Sawyer ate Jin then Hurley ate Sawyer. Then Jack got all out of breath and started stomping around throwing a hissy fit about being a leader… “I told you, we need to fill the cave with hot, molten lead, ’cause it’s the only way to make sure Manbearpig never comes out. And I’m saying it and I’m totally cereal but everyone just keeps digging! I’m super cereal! And nobody’ll listen to me. I’m cereal!”… then he was going off about how now that Sawyer was gone he was going to have to raise Kate all by himself… But it turned out that Sawyer had only faked his death but then he came back and called Jack names… then they made up and had a very intimate moment…
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@13:47:48
right, i completely forgot. that was a nice intimate moment wasn’t it? If only we didn’t have Miles in the mix aswell. i hate these complicated love triangles.
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@13:48:20
As the days of Lost turn…………
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@13:49:03
And where does Juliet fit in?
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@13:51:23
Highbrow needs a timeout. But really, you should post that in “Theories” and see when Coco’Matt’ runs with it…
I almost feel bad for saying that, but not yet…
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@15:00:19
Dont feel bad…
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@15:11:55
So ladies, I know what side you are on, but let me ask you this…
What do we, as ‘pro changers’ feel, is signifigant enough a change, to go beyond Des saving Charlie?
Same to ‘anti changers’. What would be enough to sway you? What would give you an understanding that change can happen in the past on Lost?
And highbrow. You feel so negative towards the situation. How will this effect your view of the show? You seem to think it will ruin it? What in particular would be enough for that to happen?
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@18:09:15
I’m not negative about anything. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I’m being a scrooge about the show. From here it looks like you’re being negative. You’re the ones who said if the past can’t be changed the show wouldn’t even be worth watching anymore.
Besides, Miles is on my side now. You guys got Hurley who is currently waiting for himself to stop existing.
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@18:20:21
I have to say…that conversation sounded awfully familiar…
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@18:25:54
Yes, eerily familiar! lol I was ready to kill Miles for a moment, until he came to his senses, and realized he wasn’t making any sense!
Please don’t take that the wrong way highbrow! It’s all about the love!
Was it my imagination or does it seem like Roger was kinda making the moves on Kate? Now Jack and Sawyer have kicked Kate to the curb, I smell a hook-up! lol
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@18:26:59
Besisdes, all Miles does is find out how dead people died and make them go away. They give Hurley advice, they’ll tell him what to do next. Meanwhile, Miles will be lost in the jungle hearing dead people tell him whatever about the past….if he lives that long. Hes not funny right now, and quickly becoming worthless to me.( one goood one liner about “I’ll shoot you in the leg…”, thats about it.
I have to say, Hurely and Miles tonight were right up there with the Hurley/Ben exchange from last season.
Loved every second, and wanted one more scene…
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@18:32:15
That kind of sounded contradicting when I read it again. I dont know. Either way, loved the episode…great exchange, and what about Kate telling Claiers mom about everything.
Someone posted that recently…who was that, I think I said No way…I was wrong there, good call!
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@18:33:11
AES, I was also hoping for that one more scene from them, but I think that will be forthcoming.
I must admit, I was feeling a little tense for a moment! lol
Not that it would have bothered me at all for highbrow to be dead right! aweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! lol
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@18:34:37
I loved the look on Ben’s face when he wakes up to John sitting at his bedside!
It was like….”Houston, we have a problem” lol
Priceless!
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@18:35:31
That was a good call on Claire’s mom! I was convinced it was Cassidy, myself!
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@18:36:09
pro change:)
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@18:37:43
Thank goodness, poohbear! I was feeling a little outnumbered!
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@18:46:33
no shit, im a total believer that he had no clue that locke would come back.
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@19:54:29
Bens face was priceless…whether he knew about it or not, I dont think he truly believed it.
Maybe thats what his story about Thomas was regarding in the church scene with Jack.
….He didnt fully believe himself.
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@19:58:33
I think you might be right about that! The element of belief was likely what surprised him so much!
I think you are right about his conversation about Thomas.
I am wondering more and more about the whole ‘church’ scene with Ms. Hawking.
Something else is going on here!
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@20:01:17
One more noteworthy thing, which will please highbrow to no end. I am giving a lot of thought to the conversation between Hurley and Miles about ‘change’.
I think it is possible that there are certain elements that are NOT subject to change!
I haven’t thought it fully through yet, but I am willing to concede both elements are present and true.
High Five, highbrow!
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@20:01:53
How long have I been preaching that DAbsi!?!?!?
There is more to it than quantum physics!
YES, YES, YES.
Disagree all you want. Faith will prevail, change will occur, and Ben…I have no idea…
But something else is definetly going on here!
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@20:05:00
I heard Miles, he makes sense.
But there are still things to be explained.
The picture in the building where Christian is, what will John’s mission be when he eventually gets whereever he is going?
And when will the faith aspect return to Lost?
Miles gave a hell of an argument, but I will not break on this subject. Bend, maybe a little, but not break.
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@20:10:41
Speaking of faith it seemed like Jack might be turning over a new leaf. Juliet wanted to know why he came back and all he could say is because i’m supposed to. Sounds like the classic man of faith John Locke to me.
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@20:13:59
I am totally with you on that, AES! Bending a bit is okay!
All I needed was a little evidence to prove to me, that both scenarios were present and possible. Of course, one more than the other. Change!
I hope the side of faith makes a quick return. It has to according to the previews for next weeks episode.
I have stated that I see three sides present. This was confirmed for me tonight.
Run to your post, and we’ll catch up there too!
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@20:15:23
NMB, great pick-up on Jack and his ‘turning over a new leaf’!
He did remind me of Locke, and was also as stubborn as him. He refused to save young Ben!
That is something Locke would have done in the past!
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@20:19:40
Very nice NMB…
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@22:37:16
Me, the West Coaster, late as always on here.
Anyway…
Three things:
1. Yes, I turned to my husband and said, “That is the FIRST TIME Jack has uttered those words together: ‘I was supposed to…’” LOVED it.
2. I, too, was dying with glee/trepidation during the Miles/Hurley conversations. It’s like the writers wrote those scenes months ago, but somehow KNEW that we would be arguing the very “THEORIES” (yes, they used the word theory) with the exact same words and movie references and questions now. Maybe the time travel aspect of Lost isn’t just a work of fiction. Ha!
3. I will post my third point in the fun section, too, in case he misses it…but Highbrow, will you PLEASE change your avatar to Miles’ face? Because now, that’s who you are in my head. He was talking and I SWORE it was YOU.
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@05:50:42
Dabs, I love you too.
That conversation between Miles and Hurley was epic. That conversation, after the conversations we’ve been having her for the past couple weeks, instantly became my favorite moment on Lost. I felt like the writers had been reading our posts and put us right into the script!
I was a little worried though when Hurley asks “why wouldn’t Ben remember?” and Miles was all like “I don’t know”… So they were setting me up like I was right, then knocking me down by saying I was wrong… Then my hero, Richard Alpert finally steps up at the end of the episode and tells us exactly why Hurley was wrong! Ben WON’T REMEMBER ANY OF THIS! Woo hoo!
Jack thinks the past can be changed and look what he got for trying. If he had saved Ben he would have succeeded. By refusing to help he sent Ben to the Others and is completely responsible for Ben becoming who is is later… I’m loving this!
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@07:05:20
highbrow! I thought the same thing as I watched the show. I’m not sure but I think AES has some kind of “in” with the writers. lol
Anyway, I am difficult to persuade unless I have the cold hard facts!
I think it’s fair to say that Hurley and Miles married up our opposing views,
AES came up with a brilliant line! He referred to some of ‘the losties’ as being Course Manipulators, and some as being the Course Correctors, and then I threw in Desmond as the ‘Variable’.
Thanks for remaining vigilant, and loveable!
So, I see kimberly has referred to you as Miles! So, I guess that makes me Hurley! lol
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@07:16:31
Something tells me you and Hurley bear little actual resemblance.
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@07:28:47
lol, you got that right! We are both loveable though!
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@15:37:06
simple solution…
there is two bens.
reasons……
tune in next time….
oh and JUST ONE MORE THING
any one want a cigar?
x
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@13:24:05
losts-columbo, I’ll have to take a pass on the cigar!
The combination of rancid cigar smoke, and smelly old men, doesn’t quite do it for me! lol
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@13:25:36
What about cigar smoke and nice smelling young men?
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@13:26:55
Now you’re talking, highbrow! lol I’m in!
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@13:29:56
I prefer nice smelling young women.
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@13:31:18
Then I have good news for you, highbrow! I here Kate is looking! lol
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@13:32:30
I couldn’t go for Kate… Not until I build my shoulders up a bit…
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@16:18:03
hey guys no need to be agest toward me, i was just studying a case in detroit with miss marple, shes the women i like, her pussy is so old , its haunted, just like me,
anywya i came here to discuss there is two of each charactor, yeah, my spellings gone in my old age.
and monobrow? no…highbrow!, stop tryingto pick up women on here, go to the rollerdisco like i did. hard to imagine but i used to get the old rollers on, with my khaki trench coat, and cigar.
xxx
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@18:38:13
Must I be compred to Hurley…I dont think people will disapear…I dont think its a multiple timeline, I just think something can be different…impact making different…
What “in” do I have with the writers?
Im a little upset with the mocking of theorists ;]
…so Im just going to point out a few shortcomings of my own
:b
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@18:56:48
I don’t get it. Where is the hostility coming from? When did I try to pick up women here? Geez, I proved earlier today that I’m not even really sure which theorists ARE the girls!
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@19:02:25
Yeah, whats the deal with the Ben pic in the girls avatar, I dont read half the names, I base who Im talking to off pictures, lol…
I saw someone here the other day with a big eye, and thought I had one to many Dharma beers the night before…
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@19:04:07
I kid Iheart, I was extra busy at the factory today, and was seriously just looking at pictures when I was posting
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@19:06:13
AES & highbrow, I wanted to make comment to this earlier, and ask this individual to refrain from making disgusting and disparaging remarks.
I felt it was not something worth asking.
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@19:15:45
Its not, dont get drawn in…your better than that…I dont need anybody talking nasty like that to you Dabsi…
:]
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@01:35:51
i must apologise,
this columbo thing hasnt really worked out for me, im sorry for my foul language, but i do like cigars and miss marple just not in that rick james kind f way i described earlier
im sorry to the polar bear person, i think ive troubled your innocent christ loving brain.
to make up for it by the end of next week, i will have written my own theory on lost. if i havent then i shall banish my self to the four toed statue, which in actual fact is an unfinished Obelisk,
whats an obelisk? the egyptians thought they could generate power from above with them………….
xxx
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@08:49:20
Try not to drink too much before you post that theory.
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@09:10:23
…
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@09:15:15
Um… what? That wasn’t directed at you AES…
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@09:21:33
You know how when someone says something funny…and you shouldnt laugh..but you cant help a little giggle from coming out….?
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@16:11:36
come on people, i will drink lots when i post a theory.
but it seems you all have lost your head up your own island butt holes, i dont mean that in a bad way, its quite funny really, having a hierarchy of lobs (Lost snobs), so clever,
give me a chance, whats wrong with something being an obelisk, “oh richard initials is RA hes the sun god waffle waffle (mm waffles)” richard has eyeliner, must be egyptian, nothing to do with the fact he has deep set eyes because of his natural appearance and race,
i mean, barack obama’s initals, are BO and none of us think he needs to buy deodarant.
wow what a hole ive dug myself now.
please help.
columbo.
x
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@16:35:58
You have obviously made your point losts-columbo! If nobody else gets what that is, I most certainly do.
This is a LOST website, and not a site where you are entitled to share your personal opinions about what you think of other people, which is clearly very little.
I would ask you to show some respect, but obviously you do not have any for yourself, so why waste my time!
Please do not make any further comments, and I would hope that nobody else makes any further comments towards you.
Thank you for your understanding!
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@17:59:32
Lost columbo…The egyptian ideas stem from a much deeper meaning than “Richards Eyes”,
Our president in the U.S. does bear those initials…and no, Im guessing he wasnt named by producers of a TV show in the interest of keeping many people guessing…although I do agree, he is most likely not RA, and most likely named after…Richard Alpert.
I have a question though, and Dabs…please…one second, I know…
What does an Agatha Christie character have to do with this?
Please, use discression upon answering that question.
Actually, DO NOT reply at all here, please answer in my post “Wait…Was that?” located in ‘Fun’.
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@08:09:55
i truly appologise for my antics, i feel like one of those wee scrotes who come on to a blog to be an idiot.
im just terribleat breaking the ice, no more silly posts, only intelligent conjecture for now on.
ive only seen the first series and the current series, so yeah, not your proper fan but i do like lost.
now i will get lost and stop posting here.
x
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@10:19:55
You dont have to get ‘lost’ my friend…just be considerate is all….
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@18:14:33
done and done.
x
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@15:05:21
Here is my question, if whatever happened happened and they are constantly changing the future, then why wouldn’t Ben remember that Syid shot him when he was little? I doubt that Ben would have kept him alive had he remembered.
Richard Albert is the key to everything “magical” or “supernatural” on the island. In my personal opinion, Richard Albert (RA) is the Egyptian God RA and they are stuck in a pergatory between the real world and the afterlife.
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@10:02:04
biggin77, I am inclined to agree with you about Richard Alpert and RA, being one and the same, or a reincarnation of RA.
The same way Kate helps young Ben, is likely the same reason, (if Ben does recall Sayid shooting him), why he says nothing to Sayid about it.
He was not supposed to remember anything, but clearly does, so I am not sure what to make of it.
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@14:57:14
i think the answer that ben does remember, simply if he was told, or time traveled himself to the time, and saw everything, but that would mean three bens on the island at one time…but rember Primer, how many really was there.
x
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@15:06:23
I had to think about this one, as it’s been awhile. I agree that Ben recalls the incident as a child.
I think he would have to recall it, and/or somebody did tell him. He knows everything that’s going on, so I have to believe that something this big, he’d be aware of.
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@21:23:17
Ok, reading back over older theories, this could possibly come back around and play a role…
What if the island we saw in season 5 1977 is the FSW island, at least up until the incident…and Ben being shot is why Roger packs up and leaves, which could explain them remembering the island…
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@21:24:19
Maybe Ben sees Sayid in the FSW and it ‘reminds’ him of the past…
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