Just A Theory…
To say that there is no paradox on lost, would be wrong…
To say that there is no world ending, apoctolyptic paradox would be more accurate, at least for now.
There is a way to fix things…there is a way to change the past…a way to right the wrong, it has been introduced, but only on a smaller scale.
At least, in an overall sense of the show.
To say that there has been no change, or change of the past, at this point, is a matter of opinion to some, but to others, it is presented in cold hard evidence. Handed to us on many episodes of Lost, very small change is written off without consequence. The butterfly effect is written off, or misconstrued to something that holds a more noticable consequence. Some seem to think that a butterfly effect is something that would cause immediate, large change…that is not the case. The butterfly effect is something, that over time, causes small change, and minute cause, that in the end, hold drastic effects.
The paradox has been throw out the widow and debunked long ago, by the producers of Lost…probably around the same time as time travel ;]
Paradox has been disputed, and fought by those not believing in change on Lost. It would make the show boring…too easy…almost cheating, because then they could change anything that has happened without consequence…maybe thats the point…not without consequence, but the change. They could cover their asses. Cover the storyline. Cover the ending. Change it…if necessary.
Regardless of why paradox exists on Lost…it exists. Im sure this particular type has been discussed, but maybe not in this manor…
This is not a theory based on previews for next week. Anyone can watch a preview of Ben holding a gun at a dock, and say, “Hey…I bet Ben killed Penny.”
This is not a theory of the past on Lost. Again, anyone can watch the show and say “Hey, I bet this is how Ben becomes the person he is, Jack wouldnt do surgey, and Sawyer and Kate take him to Richard!”
It is not what is in front of our face, but whats under our nose. Just out of or eyes vision, and our brains thought…Between the lines, instead of on them…
This is my way of showing you what you have missed, and why they wanted you to…
This…is my theory of why and how…
Sit back, agree or not, I am going to attempt to make you understand what I believe is going on…whether you believe in change or not, whether you believe there is a timeloop, I intend to make sure you have an understanding of if nothing else, why I think the way I do. To understand why I believe so much in change, and why I believe it will play a pivotal role, in the future of Lost.
Regardless of whether you believe that when you are done, you wont be able to deny one thing about the show. There is a paradox at play, and with that paradox, comes a fear of many Lost viewers around the world…the ability of the writers/producers…to do whatever the hell they please. Anything is possible on Lost…and Im going to show you why….
I plan to use Desmond as the main character in my story, with Daniel playing the supporting role…they are the two best examples of this paradox that is occuring in front of our eyes. The funny thing about the word paradox is, it is misunderstood as meaning a world ending event most of the time, this is not the case here, not yet at least.
The paradox I refer to is the predestination paradox. Its meaning is as follows:
A person(s), go back in time to stop or change something, and become the very problem that they are trying to prevent.
Example with Daniel…He goes back in time, tells Charolette as a little girl to leave the island and never return or she will die. By telling her this, it inspires her to find the island as an adult, and ultimately, die on the island. She returns with the man who told her to leave, and dies in his arms…you cannot deny the ironic tragedy on Lost, Shakespeare would love this show.
But the events that I am refering to as truly being the main turning points on Lost are even beyond this. Many of them lead back to a man named Desmond Hume. We all know Des and Pennys story, but do we know everything? Do you know that there is confermation by the producers, that in the “Constant” and “Flashes Before Your Eyes”, Desmond did in fact timetravel?
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From Lostpedia…(feel free to view the podcast after “Flashes before your Eyes”)
“According to the producers, Desmond really did travel back in time, and the events he relived occurred in 1996. (Official Lost Podcast/February 20, 2007)
In an Entertainment Weekly Article, Damon Lindelof is quoted saying that this episode uses a flashback device employed “in a way we have never seen before and never will again”, although the flashes during “The Constant” are closely similar”
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Some choose to believe, that everything that happened to Desmond in “FBYE” happened to him the first time…I feel that the conversation between Hawking and Desmond never took place. That this was truly the first time it occured. As I looked for closure on this point, although nothing turned up, I found one that I see just as helpful to my cause…
When Des tells his pal Donovan about Jimmy Lennon, I wouldnt have believed him either…especially after it didnt happen…but wait, Desmond had the wrong day.
The very next night, the things Desmond remembers hold true, Jimmy Lennon comes in, swings at the bartender, Desmond INTERVENES, yells “Duck!”, which the bartender does, and is hit by the cricket bat himself, instead of the bartender that it happened to the ‘first’ time around.
Dont believe me, just ask the producers…
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According to the producers, in Desmond’s original timeline prior to his consciousness’s travel back to 1996, he did not get hit with the bat, …(Official Lost Podcast/February 20, 2007)
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What does this mean…Nothing, right? So what Desmond changed the past. It didnt do anything. It didnt effect anything by him turning the key and travelling back to a time when he was going to go to the island right? No. Because Desmond didnt do anything differently…well almost. I bet the bartender didnt have a headache that night, as he did in the previous alteration in which Desmond didnt tell him to duck, and the bartender WAS hit with the bat. So what, so a bartender didnt get hit…that doesnt mean anything, I know. The only thing it is clear evidence of is changing the past. Maybe not in a world ending paradox/change, but a paradox/change non the less.
This isnt enough to prove anything. This isnt change, merely alteration to the story. Nobody was saved from the island. Nobody is different because of it. The same events still take place…well, the major ones. The major ones in the lives of ‘our’ losties… Change that effects the rest of the world doesnt matter, right?
In the same episode, “Flases Before your Eyes”, Desmond has an encounter with Charlie. The first time around, Desmond sees him playing guitar, and spares no notice, it was irrelevant at the time. He doesnt know Charlie. But after the key is turned, and Desmond returns, there is another example of a change that although miniscule, is change regardless.
The second time around, Desmond confronts Charlie, recognizing him. He tells Charlie he knows him from the island. Charlie ironically tells the bystanders, “This is why we dont do drugs…”
Just then, Desmond calls out the universe, and predicts the exact moment it is going to begin to rain. The producers dont have to tell us this didnt happen before. Desmond is not psychic in the spiritual sense…he has just been here and done this exact same thing before.
In flashes before your eyes, the producers said Desmond did not get hit with a cricket bat the first time around. But when he awakens in the jungle after the experience, he is rubbing his head, as if either a memory, implanted as I said above, or almost a feeling, as if he could still feel the sting. Being he only conciencly travelled, this was most likely a fresh, new, never experienced before memory, that Desmond was recollecting for the first time. It felt real, because it was.
This is one, maybe the only one time, the producers have come out and said, the past has changed in a physical sense.
There are other things, that have changed. Not physical things, but mental. Thoughts and memories have seemingly been implanted, by the universe. Dare I say course correction?
The universe instantaniously adding a memory to a person, who has conciencely gone back in time and changed something that occured to them. Have we ignored the idea that the dejavu like dream/memories, could in fact be the course correction that is spoken of due to a change in the plan. That change does occur, and the universe just corrects the worlds thoughts so people always understand? Is this why we wouldnt know if something changed? We would just FEEL different?
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“Dear, dear! How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I’ve been changed in the night? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning?”.
—Alice in Wonderland, Through the Looking Glass,
Chapter II, Pool of Tears
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This is from the story Jack was reading to Aaron in “Ther’s No Place Like Home”.
A clear alusion used to tell us “between the lines”, that someone is changing, maybe in the manor that Desmond changed when he had the ‘memory’ of Daniel telling him to find his mother.
There is a scene in the episode, “The Constant”, where Dan and Des are disussing his memory while at Oxford…his future selv’s memory:
“Daniel then asks Desmond if his future-self remembers this particular meeting between the two men, to which Desmond responds negatively. Desmond adds that “maybe you just forgot” to which Daniel laughs at the comment. Daniel adds that you cannot change the future.”
Hmm, it seems that thought may be out the window with changing the past…Daniel Faraday said so.
There is also the part with Pennys phone number in the constant. This is not something Desmond knew and forgot, this is something that he travelled back in time conciencely, got a phone number off of Penny, which he had never in his life heard before, and remembered it when he travelled back to 2004, using it to assist the O6, himself, and Frank off of the island…or blown up freighter/raft.
If that is not changing the past to cause a signifigant event in the future, I dont know what is.
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Producers:
“How the show deals with time travel: the show is paradox-averse. When characters are time traveling, nothing that they do can change the present or the future that you have seen, which is different than on other shows. This is to make sure that what happens in the flash-forwards is “definitely not changeable” as far as time travel goes. Things like an alternate Jack in an alternate reality are not possible. Parallel futures or alternate universes that depend upon how certain actions play out are not the writers’ intention. The Ms. Hawking scene in “Flashes Before Your Eyes” explains this principle. ”
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Now here is my favorite part about what the producers say. A season before introducing timetravel, they say there is none. Last season they say no paradox, but the season before they say the first time around, Desmond didnt get hit with the cricket bat. This year, they give us the Dan and Charolette story. There is question in the writers direction that they give to us. They laugh, they play, the mess with our heads. In a very Benipulative manner, they make us look one direction, and go another. There are many definitions, and types of paradox, and it is evident, at least one is going on, if not several, on Lost.
Lost4815162342, recently brought up a good point in a comment last week. He asked why, if the universe will course correct, would it matter to Hawking if Desmond doesnt go and push the button? The universe will fix it right? They wouldnt all die, because course correction would come into play and save the world.
I dont think it works like that, otherwise, why would she worry so?
I dont push this because I think its right because that is how the science on Lost works. I push the idea of change, because I think that there is more to Lost than science. There is a constantly forgotten faith aspect that seems overshaowed right now by the sci-fi time travel that is occuring at the moment. It is obvious from the previews for next week, Ben fears some sort of judgement coming, most likely from the smoke monster. I imagine this to be in a different aspect than science. I never viewed the smoke monster as a security system…a guardian of some sort maybe, but it in my opinion has thoughts, emotion, and motive.
I have theorized before, that Ben saved Johns soul, by not letting him kill himself, by killing him instead.Ben wouldnt allow John to die due to the judgement that awaits from the smoke monster….Ben may leave us very soon, at least the Ben we know. As Eko killed for the greater good, he killed non the less. Much like Eko, I believe if anything is capable of stopping or changing Ben, Smokey may be the best candidate. I wouldnt think Ben dying in this manor would mean no more Linus on the show, dont forget, we still have young Ben, and I imagine he grows up very quickly.
Or this may be a flashback…who knows, it was a network preview ;]
Another Benjamin Linus thought comes to mind. I’ve said before, that he is the only one who lived the two timeperiods that we saw; the 2004 crash era, and the 1974-7? era, in the correct order. He would be the only one, if to return to this timeperiod’physically or conciencely, that would know, exactly what was going to happen.
Desmond isnt special because he sees different timeperiods, he is special because he conciencly travels to different timeperiods, thus allowing him to alter what happened, because it is physically, his first and only time there.
If Ben were to do this, could he possibly control fate in the same manner?
Could Ben, the child of the ‘others’, once a Dharma kid, shot by Sayid, turned away by Dr. ‘I can fix anything if I want to’ Shephard, be the one who can alter the course of history?
And if course correction is possible, the only correct course would be determined by the one capable of causing alteration’or correction, from their perspective.
If you follow my theories, you will know I preach the forgotten faith bit everynow and then, when science starts to run away with the show. It happens more and more this season. Science, breaking boundries all the time. But what about resurection? What about the walking dead? What about whatever or whoever Jacob is? Is there no chance that any of these elements could be a result of a broken or changed timeline? Whispers, smokemonsters? Not to say that change and faith on Lost have to relate. Just that with the possibility of a higher being/power at hand, and the very small ineffective change that we have seen already occur, couldnt it be possible that in ” place that miracles happen”, a miracle might just happen? Isnt it possible, Desmond may hold the key to manipulating the space time continuom? Isnt it possible, that the doctor, who will never be “a great man”, has the ability to seemingly fix anything, if he truly wants to do it? Isnt it possible, that a man who has overcome parental abandonment, every friend he has ever had turning their back, overcome the loss of true love, a loss of the ability to walk, a feat deemed unatainable from an eight story fall and a crushed spine, and all medical standards…a man that could overcome death…could possibly do something miraculous…one more time.
John Locke drew a picture of the smoke monster as a child…before he went to the isalnd. Before he truly met Richard Alpert. Even the old man was impressed with this. John chose the knife, and Alpert became angry. This is John. This is what he was before Alpert knew him. He didnt make the wrong choice, Alpert just didnt recognize what had just occured. We see that Alpert is somewhat in the dark on the whole John Locke thing. He doesnt understand what Johns purpose is, any more than John himself in 1954, or during the test that was given.
John drew the smoke monster. I dont know what it means exactly, but it means something. To me it is a sign of faith, that John, much like Ben, knows more than we all think. It may be a while before we learn exactly what that is, but it will eventually present itself.
I see all this, and I cant help but think about it from a religious standpoint. I dont buy into the timeloop idea in the normal sense. I think the timeperiod repeats the same iteration of wheel turning and back to the past….blah…815 crashes again…blah…back to the past…
But its not that the Losties are living the same thing over and over, its possible, but its not my concern. With all of the religious ideas that present themselves into Lost, I have to wander about the souls of the people.
In some religions and cultures, ones concience is a represntation of the soul.
In the episode “The Constant”, Desmond goes to the auction and confronts Widmore about contacting Penny. He does this while concience travelling back in time.
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From Lostpedia:
The name of the organization holding the auction is called..Southfield’s, it is an anagram for “shifted soul.” This no doubt reflects the way that Desmond’s mind, or soul, was “shifted through time.
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I know lostpedia isnt the most reliable proof, but you cannot deny the anagram. I think there is a religious aspect to John drawing Smokey as a child. In a rebirth/reincarnation kind of way. Maybe he wasnt even John Locke in his previous lifetime, not likely, but someone important regardless. Even if it was a loop repeating, John has to be something speacial to remember.
I feel its beyond that. I think there is something more than just timetravel at play, in terms of reincarnation and resurection. The thought of a human soul in some kind of trap like that reminds me of Jacob. If you think of it as a soul, instead of a concience trapped in time, whether the Losties in a loop, or Jacob in the cabin outside of the space time continuom, it comes back to a religious viewpoint.
And that makes me think of one of the very first lost puzzles, although thrown away for…creative differences, the book “Bad Twin” by Gary Troup…aka…Purgatory…
… not because I think it is their scientific answer to purgatory, but because it is thier personal purgatory for their souls due to being stuck in the cycle of the island repeating the wheel turning forever. I dont think without change, their souls will get the rest they deserve, whether a Heaven or Hell awaits them, I dont think they can truly ‘rest’ so long as the island exists with the timetravel capabilities that exists with it.
I found the conversation between Miles and Hurley hilarious, and easily one of the best exchanges ever on the show. Change/no change, honestly, it was obvious it was a knock on the theorists, and I dont agree with either of them when it comes right down to it. But a great scene no less.
I dont expect to convert anybody with this theory, just to let you know why I think the way I do on this subject.
I think we are missing the key ingrediants, Locke, Ben, Desmond, and the children…the blank slates, or Tabula Rasas of Lost. They, like Young Ben before he is taken to the temple by Richard, is pure. Their soul is clean of sin and still contains their innocence, just like Benjamin Linus before he is taken to Richard, who takes him to what we believe to be the temple. What goes on there, I am not sure ( I bet Dabs has something to say on this subject ;] ), but whatever goes on, I am pretty sure will be more complicted than basic science that we all know.
I said it before, and I’ll say it now…They have put too much stock and effort into faith and change to write them off in the last season and a half. They might try to make us forget, but it simply cannot dissapear.
I could be wrong….I dont know very much.
I know the writers/producers said things that appear to be true, and said things that are very, very false.
I know there are things that need to be explained that science we know, isnt going to be able to answer.
I know every season of Lost gets crazier and more intense, by every episode that passes.
And everything else… is just a theory.
great post as usual A.E.S. I read an interesting piece on another site where the author was somewhat questioning what is real and what isn’t. How much of what our favorite losties project as reality verses what is actually reality. perhaps these things that appear off are a result of a paradox due to changes.
with respect to john, he has always been special. it still baffles me how john could have made the drawing of the smoke monster prior to being on the island. was this somehow older john projecting onto younger john? if so, how. or as you suggest, was he reincarnated? if so, who was he in the previous life and what is that persons connection with the island.
Thanks username. True reality is questionable.
I have wondered about the smoke monster drawing since Alperts visit. At the time, I thought reincarnation, then was persuaded otherwise by the timetravel on Lost.
I am going to go with my first/gut instincts on these things from now on.
I honestly think he WAS John Locke before. I question his ‘true identity’ because although it is possible he was actually someone else, I think it is what John Locke actually ends up being, that gives him this ability to know what the island holds, ala the drawing of ‘Smokie’.
I have more to go with this theory, but it is long enough for now…
Thanks for the input…
AES, I can certainly tell that you researched your heart out on this ‘little gem’! One, which has paid off, IMHO! Bravo! You get top marks from me! Well earned, I might add!
Everything you have explained, is what I believe to be true, and why I have held on so steadfast to my beliefs about Lost.
This week was a difficult week to come out with any type of theory which speaks to the ‘key’ elements of the show! I have heard and read so many variations and spin, of events, that it would appear that people are flailing madly about to come up with any cohesive thoughts or statements.
When put into such simplistic, unrefutable statements such as you have, it would be hard for anyone to walk away with a different understanding of the events, you so clearly define.
I wholeheartedly concur with your sentiments. The time travel set-up was a necessary element to help viewers understand. However, there is undeniably a strong element of faith here. Count on hearing about it in my next theory! One, which I researched my little heart out, with some surprising conclusions.
Let us remember one thing about John Locke. John was only considered as ‘heir’ apparent to ‘the others’, because it was he, himself who in 1954, placed that thought in Richard Alpert’s head! I would like for everyone to remember this, as it will become an intricate part of how John Locke evolves as a leader. Count on faith becoming a strong contender in the show, and count on being surprised.
I admire your dedication, and commitment to always finding a unique and refreshing and creative approach in presenting your theories!
You rock, my friend!
interesting post AES, very well researched and some good points that i hadnt thought about, however (im not attacking your theory btw) i dont think youve really come to any conclusions or put forward a theory per se youve just said things you disagree with but some good stuff nonetheless.
Im of the school that whatever happend, happend. If we really accept that time travel is possible then say someone came back from the future to me now just to say hi, i would be experiencing that for the first time now, and that always happend for me, i would have no knowledge of it happening any other way. This is the same thing with Richard when Locke visits him in 1954, that always happend period.
With regards to Desmond, for whatever reason he is special and does seem to be able to change the past, ms Hawking and the powers that be must know this which is why they havent taken any chances and have had to stop him from buying that ring personally.
If people can change the future by time travelling i think you start getting into murky water and alternate universes which probably couldnt be wrapped in 1 and a half seasons
Thank you Dabsi, I dont let my thoughts and beliefs die easily, I never have, and never will.
I am beyond excited for your theory, which will obviously be great, because they always are.
Locke telling Richard about himself, causing Richard to find him in the future, and plant the seed of greatness into young John’s head. Ahhh, a paradox if I’ve ever heard one.
I tried to make sure that I got some producer commentary and statements in there to back up my ideas. But we all know their word is about as good as Ben’s word…make fun of us arguing about change on the stupid show…lets see you guys back pedal out of these conflicting statements..haha
Dabsi, I am honestly looking foreward to your theory, and cannot wait to see the next episode.
I am also, as usual, more than willing to discuss this particular theory or any ideas within with anyone….
Push that theory out, but not until you are ready, I’ll be waiting…
Great theory! Just a couple of thoughts: Desmond is different because of the High amounts of radiation he was hit with when he didn’t turn the key. Much in the way the rats Daniel was experimenting with. So instead of physically being transported back in time, his conciesness is transported back, so he can change the past (hense the cricket bat) because his conciesness is traveling in his natural timeline.
JAck and the other returnees can not change the past because they are physically transported. They are not travelling in their natural timeline. So, anything they do to try and change the future, actually will end up being what makes the future the way it is (like jack not helping ben).
Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents! 🙂
AES, I finished my research on my theory, and am in the process of writing it up. I have so much information, it will take quite a few re-writes before I am satisfied with the final result. I have something in there, especially for you! A tie-in we were hoping for…….
The Producer’s commentaries are part of what sells it, and I am glad you put them in here. Not to sell me, but in hopes it may make some people realize, they are being led astray with the ‘Whatever Happened, Happened, BS!!
I also had to laugh at the exchange between Miles and Hurley, because it was so typical of what we have been doing on this site. At the end, even Miles and Hurley were uncertain, and had to take a time-out! I take it, that to mean, this is how the writers want it to be, until they hit the viewers with ‘the big whammie’ of Faraday is lying and btw he is CRAZY! lol Can’t wait for that reveal!
In referencing John Locke to your theory, Richard, Ben and ‘the others’ should have been more careful with what they wished for! What they wanted and what they are going to get, are going to be two very different things, I believe!
theoriesonlost post of the year. And on top of that you referenced one of my comments. I think even Highbrow isn’t sure that Desmond will cause change. What he may end up changing, might be something we have never scene of screen, however. As you noted, Lost is paradox averse, not completely paradox free. Again, I’m starting to coming around to the fact that what may get changed is something we have never seen on screen. I don’t believe they will do something cheesy like saving a character that had previously died on the island, i.e. Charlie or Charlotte.
PS: One more thought on your observations, AES. You are absolutely correct, about the smaller changes, being consequential, in changing the long term effects, IMO.
Whatistime, attack if you will, no problems here, you wont be the last Im sure.
My theory/theories lie inside of all of the information presented.
Inside of the proof that Desmond did change the past, even if in a small way, this would be enough to change the course of time. The man in the red shoes getting killed the next day, hour, minute, or second, to me, is enough to show there is change and there is a paradox already occuring in Lost. I wanted to make a full understanding, that these things are not just ‘thought’ by us on the “change’ side, but that the producers have acknowledged that at least one event in the past, has actually changed. And with that, the major thing that caused signifigant change, was Desmond receiving Pennys phone number, when he travelled back in time.
His future self changed the past, and his past self, in turn, helped shape the future that hasne existed to him in a physical sense yet.
I theorize that change will occur again, of a greater magnitude.
I theorize that Desmond will be the key to this change happening with Faraday playing second fiddle or assistant.
I theorize that John Locke, will do something very miraculous, most likely involving changing the past, and Even Ben may have something to do with it.
I theorize that Benjamin Linus, the adult, may parish very soon, and be replaced with Benjamin Linus the child…who most likely will grow very quickly so that Michael Emerson will not be out of work…like he ever will again after this show.
I theorize that the importance of the children, has to do with the title to a season one episode, Tabula Rasa, or blank slate. Meaning that they, like Ben as a child, are unique to the people of the island, because the are pure, or without sin.
I theorize that the Author of the book “Bad Twin” is an anagram for purgatory, because the losties souls are trapped in the purgatory of time. Not that this is what purgatory really is, but just to them specifically.
I theorize that faith in the end, will play a more important role than science, outlasting it, and proving what is impossible, possible.
I theorize these things and tell you why most are true, providing the most incriminating evidence I can gather in a few days. Hoping that you will see that there has been instances that are beyond what science says is wrong or impossible.
And I provide oppositional information, such as what Hawking, Faraday, or the writers/producers themselves regarding what is NOT happening or going to happen on Lost. For the simple reason that I prove what they said wrong…sorry to make it confusing with all the jibber jabber and facts and qoutes and references.
I had to make sure people understand I dont just make things up, or assume everything I write here.
I theorize, I research, I dig…I dont know anything…its just a theory..
lost#s, just want to say a big thank you!
Your comment was something that led me to dig…Why would she care? Goosebumps…
I actually posted a theory in “questions” asking you for help on this subject that day!
Its cool though, I know the times you are on and figured you would miss it. Just wanted to make sure you got a shout out for the wonderful idea. I dont know where you got it from, but its simplicity baffles me, for the simple reason that I and the other “pro-changers” didnt press the issue already.
I am at the point where if people dont want to believe this, at least they will be more suprised than I, when the change ocurs…I just hope the process of changing the history of the world in an instant, while timetravelling to the past isnt too easy for them.
As for a change we haven’t seen on screen yet, my god, the incident, Richard Alperts origin, the rest of the orchid videos, or any other for that matter.
I have never once said that ANY of the events that have occured in the past few episodes on Lost are the ‘change’ that we are all waiting for. Just that change will occur.
m_shepp83, your 2 cents…that is why I discuss the different type of change/timetravel that is presented…
And why I suggest Desmond being the key to the whole thing.
Good comeback AES lol!
I think youve definately laid out what youre saying very well and everything is backed up.
Im not sure i agree with the faith aspects of the show im not sure how/if they will play out on the show just because its very hard to mix science and religion, its not really possible in real life so i dont know how it will work on lost. But that doesnt mean they wont try. One thing i wanted to point out though, i was rewatching Lafleur (im trying to get my girl into lost but season 5 might be a bit too late i think she got a migrane) and Sawyer says to Horace in the scene where Richard comes to Dharmaville ‘ …your friend with eyeliner out there’ or something along those lines reffering to Richard. I remembered that a lot of ancient eygeptian males wore eyeliner, and when you look at Rich it does look like hes wearing it… so what are peoples opinions on Richard is he actually a ancient eygeptian god?
I have read a recent theory on this same subject regarding Richard. I didnt think it was true, but after that comment, could it be a sly, subbtle slip in on this? I find it slightly too easy, but you never know.
The Egyptian mythology has a story of the island of creation. This was the beginning of everything in their eyes. I dont think it will play in necessarliy, but a reference/shout out from Lost is never suprising. That sort of theorizing is not my…forte..if you will, but a good thought to spur conversation.
As for the science and religion/faith relating in a way. I have always felt this was the theme of Lost. From the very beginning, before time travel reared its ugly head.
I see this because there is a lot of stock poured into this as well, more so than the idea of ‘change’.
I always thought it would be fun if they stepped back at the end and say “Neither side was more right or wrong than the other”.
That there is on Lost, and in the real world, an answer that could satisfy both sides That could satisfy the ideas of many religions and faiths in a way to make people see the pettiness in fighting wars over whose religion is incorrect.
with the eyeliner thing we can definately see that richard does wear it- http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:RichardBYL.jpg
and the fact that Sawyer references it means that it isnt an accident that he wears it.
Wow, that would be great if Lost could come to some conclusion about the whole scirnce vs religion debate, it could save lives! I would go with the judge from simpsons verdict ‘science should stay at least 100 yards away from religion at all times’.
I think it will be interesting how they end plays out and i cant argue that faith did and still plays a part in lost, but i think you should also take into account the difference between faith and religion.
Locke beleiving that he has to push the button is more a faith in the island not really a religious belief and im sure youll correct me, but have we seen any references to specific religions?
scratch that there are a lot of references, esp to christianity, just checked lostpedia
I believe the Egyptian mythology was the initial foundation on which Lost was based. However, this has evolved, and spun off in many different directions.
We are being presented with some scenarios, which need incorporating, in order for the story to be plausible.
AES and myself have explored and delved into some of these ideas. After last weeks episodes, I am totally convinced we were on the right thought track!
Another Benjamin Linus thought comes to mind. I’ve said before, that he is the only one who lived the two timeperiods that we saw; the 2004 crash era, and the 1974-7? era, in the correct order. He would be the only one, if to return to this timeperiod…physically or conciencely, that would know, exactly what was going to happen.
Desmond isnt special because he sees different timeperiods, he is special because he conciencly travels to different timeperiods, thus allowing him to alter what happened, because it is physically, his first and only time there.
If Ben were to do this, could he possibly control fate in the same manner?
Could Ben, the child of the ‘others’, once a Dharma kid, shot by Sayid, turned away by Dr. “I can fix anything if I want to” Shephard, be the one who can alter the course of history?
And if course correction is possible, the only correct course would be determined by the one capable of causing alteration…or correction, from their perspective.
Just for those of you first reading through the comments and theory so far, I have added my previous comment into the body of my theory…you are not going back in time and expeiencing this again, or having dejavu…
I felt it belonged there, and its mine, so I can do what I please…
;]
john locke seems like some kind of messianic figure, maybe not pure from a physical point of view but definitely pure of heart, almost child like when it comes to his devotion to the island. john started on the island with a blank slate, from day one worshiping whatever the island presented and his faith for the island was pure. his resurrection sealed the deal on what the writers were presenting to us as how we should view john.
desmond as well, has a special force and combined with his capability to transcend time and space he is the catalyst for impressing change. this force i believe is pure love. just as john has pure faith in the island, desmond has pure love for penny. unlike faraday who’s love for charlotte was not enough to save her (so we are led to believe) desmonds love for penny has proven strong enough to exact whatever change is necessary to bring them together against all odds. he like john has had to sacrifice so much to fulfill what he believes to be his destiny.
Unfortunatly for his destiny, I believe Ben may have spoiled that for Des…fullfilling a promise to an old friend…
I do love the John Locke as messiah idea. Locke is easily the one who deserves the role. His entire life was devoated to the cause, which he didnt even know, until he crashed on the island. And even now, Im not sure he knows what exactly, he is supposed to do.
But I cannot help cheer for the man, I would love to see him walk that path.
I read your original post and was too excited to talk to finish reading the replies…so if this has been brought up I’m sorry.
First of all, great post. Well thought out and you pose an interesting problem to what the producers have said and what has been shown on the show. However, while reading it I got a thought. With all the time travel talk that has gone on I haven’t taken into account the “course correction” bit very much when I was thinking about time travel. I was debating in my head whether I believe that the show has one time-line or multiple, and since I didn’t really understand the course correction that much I sort of just discounted it subconsciously when thinking about how time travel works. But when I was reading your post I got the feeling that the course correction is the way that the lost writers can do all of this. Yes you can argue that Ms. Hawking wouldn’t have been so angry if course correction would take care of it. However, I counter with Ms. Hawking was the course correction there. She said it herself, “You don’t buy the ring Desmond.” This means that the first time around he didn’t buy the ring. But the reasoning behind buying the ring being an issue was that he is not supposed to marry Penny. Because Hawking told him about the time travel bit, Desmond decides to not ask Penny to marry him, therefore the Universe and what is supposed to happen has been changed!
I have a new theory on how time travel works on this show. I feel like there is a meld of single and multi-line time traveling involved. There is a single line that represents what is “supposed” to happen. However, there are people who can change things from what is supposed to happen. This pushes everyone off onto a tangent time-line until the universe performs a course correction which pushes us back onto the right line. This is why a predestination paradox can pop up and not effect anything.
Like I said, I’m not sure if this has been brought up before…it probably has…but I just thought of it and hadn’t read it anywhere. I was excited to present it and want to know what you guys think! This strengthens my previous notion that nothing can be changed (really) and that there is…technically…a single-timeline.
What do you think?
-Benhamine
P.S. I love your theory on Faith being more important. I too feel that there have been too many religious aspects to the show for them to throw it out. This might bring up a quite literal Faith v. Science war soon?
“There’s a war coming, and if you’re not on that island the wrong side is going to win.”
-Widmore
benhamie, what if desmond did buy the ring the first time around? and what we have seen was the second time around and mrs. hawking trying to manipulate fate?
A.E.S. You seem to love Locke as much as I loathe him. I dislike him for so many reasons.
He finds the hatch, doesn’t tell anyone and gets Boone killed trying to get into it. He doesn’t listen to anyone who tells him that it shouldn’t be opened…Walt and Hugo both told him not to open it. He gets it in his head that it is his destiny to push the button and then he sees the Pearl station and takes over the hatch to stop the button pushers. Before Desmond turns the failsafe key, he is standing there looking at Eko, and says “I was wrong”. He holds a grand meeting in New Otherton after the freighter folk arrive and gives a speech about how he wants everyone to know what he does when in truth he has been acting for his own interests without consuting anyone else up to that point (blowing up the sub anyone?). He lets Ben turn the FDW and then it gets pointed out to him that it was supposed to be him that turned it. Because he lets Ben turn the wheel, he goes time skipping, where he meets Richard and tells Richard that he is the Others leader and Ethan shoots him and could have told Ben about the leader comment. What if that never happened? Would anyone think that he was special/worthy of leadership. He trusts Ben AGAIN and doesn’t kill himself only to have Ben murder him. And, from the looks of the previews, he trusts Ben again (when has listening to Ben Linus brought you anything other than heartache) and goes with Ben to see the smoke monster because Ben says that he came back to be judged. Personally, I hope that little Locke drew the smoke monster picture when he was a kid because he had a premonition that smokey was going to kill him. Ben, “Please help me get to the temple John, I need to be judged.” Smoke monster kills Locke. Ben, “I’ll miss you John. I really will.” Sorry about the rant, but I really don’t like Locke. I tried to post this in questions/fun, but couldn’t contain myself any longer. 🙂
Need not apologise. I completely understand your view. I admit I actually questioned Locke during the button pushing. He questioned himself, for something told to him by an other. He is easily manipulated, I will say that. But John has never done anything completly wrong. He has always had good intention whether for him or someone else…and hes been through so much, that it is just heartbreaking. I could understand a twist like that, that John was wrong the entire time, I’ve said before I love tragedy…I just dont think its in the cards. Im not saying John has to be the hero of heros on Lost, that would be a little too easy. There are plenty of possibilities in Jack, Sawyer, or Kate, although, I do doubt Sawyer making it to the end. Jack is prime candidate for that role. My new thought of Ben being in control could also lead to a possibility of a twist that he is truly…one of the good guys.
I just think John will have a pivotal role before the end, and I think he may sacrifice himself one last time. He died once for others, not knowing he would get another shot. All his rants of “this isnt supposed to happen!” could mean that something has already changed, from the very beginning. Something he knows to be true, in a form of a memory almost, that he doesnt remember actually doing. Something that is different than it should be. And he seems hell bent on making something right.
Wow, there are some awesome comments on this theory! It is quite refreshing to hear some really good ideas being shared. Especially, on the issues of faith, which seem to have been overshadowed by all of the ‘time elements’, of late.
Touching on John Locke and the ‘miracle’ of him being resurrected, IMO is a very important indication of what is to come in future.
PS: Love your thought process, Benhamine!
I thought I would let ya know that I am a quata of the way threw the theory and LOVE It so far and am looking forward to getting back to it, But had to stop to say. Next time start with the Theory. Or I will pull the hair out of my head. 4 fn
The theory is throughout, I just include more evidence and back up, than actual theory. I want people to understand my point of view overall, to see why I believe so much in change and faith in the story.
If your talking to me I am far from serious tonight! BRO seph, But will dissect with procession. OK
I have been waiting for this AES. No joke.
I made a comment on a theory about Locke and Smokey, and wanted to expand on it elsewhere. (Weird week on this site. Out of sync.) Anyway, I started to think, got interrupted, then I thought, “Maybe AES will pick up this train of thought…he’s been quiet…and I hope so, because then I can just comment and we can work it out together.”
Then, here you are…WONDERFUL!
Great work here…bringing up really important stuff for where I think we’re headed with Desmond and Locke.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the brainpower tonight to elaborate more, but I will come back to this.
There’s something to Locke, Smokey and his ‘order’ of events on the island…and YES, ultimately, what he is about to learn (about himself) and what side he is defending. There are some dots to be connected, so to speak.
Way to bring it all back around!
funny, dabs said something like that in my
‘Jacob” post in fun
Yeah thanks for the recap of ALL your opinions that I’ve read before, Many times.
Creepy eye
in terms of similar thoughts, lol, guess we are all on the same page…
Are u talking to me Brother?
No, Kimberly actually..
But…
Sorry you feel it is so repetative though…
Thought I put a different logic toward my cause, initiating evidence and more examples.
Not going to lie, Im going to continue on the subject until it is resolved on the show. Anything else I find to add to this, I will.
Sorry Kim, I was half paying attention when commenting before.
I know some feel Im beating a dead horse here, but I figured at least you and Dabs would appreciate this.
I have to admit, Im suprised that some people like some of the things I have found.
I think I should have gone this angle before. Although, I never really had to to get points across, this is just a one to tackle.
I dont expect everyone to just turn and say Im right either, just to know that some things on the show, have more to them than just what you see and hear.
Glad your on board with this one.
I would love for you to add anything you can…expand away…
Here is my problem with this BRO you will not have OUR proof for a very long time. So what? Hold your proof and enjoy the show as I will now onLine! You have inspired me to watch the Constant tonight along with a couple other eps.
IMO let the timeline thing go for a couple weeks.We got it! Show a little FAITH!….ok?
Let’s go brotheR…….?
lol, you dont have to read em, smoke.
If you can give me something more interesting to discuss, I will, but most likely I will find a way to relate it to this. This is my direction, and by the title and plot of last episode, the hot topic right now.
It was just last week that the title “Whats done is Done” aired. It seems like Im beating this to death because we have been talking about it here for months. It is what this season seems to be about, and was what last episode, which aired only five days ago, and today for some is about.
It was just last episode they mocked theorists for discussing this very thing. They know its top discussion right now, and for good reason. The latest episode, is the first in many that will truly attack this situation on lost. Changing the past, thats what the recent episode was about, and thats what I will discuss. Just seems like the most important topic at the moment.
I don’t have to read what?
and who is they?
And since when does a Season decide our Show?
Smoke, I just mean if you dont like the direction my theories are going lately, you dont have to read them.
You really seem to have somthing against me posting about change. I understand that you got it, but not everybody does.
It shows from the comments I got that even if people disagree, they are still interested in this topic.
I dont understand how I inspired you to watch the constant if you are tired of hearing the same thing from me over and over.
I dont write my theories, or chatter in comments to explain why I write them, but to discuss the points I make in them, whether you agree or disagree with what I wrote. In fact, in this one I actually said why I wrote it…so people get where I am coming from.
As long as I still inspire other ideas and gain knowledge towrds this one, Im going to keep writing them on this subject.
And by they, I meant them on the show. The scene with Miles and Hurley arguing over ‘change’. I and many see that as a mock of theorists such as myself arguing over the possibility.
I have all the faith in the world on this, and Im oing to keep preaching it…
And a season doesnt decide our show, but Im guessing the next to last season will have something to do with the end game…just kind of makes sense to discuss the topic of the most recent episode on a theory site.
AES this is fantastic. I wrote a theory recently about Desmond being able to change things and what not. This basically said all the other things I wanted to say but didn’t know exactly how. Great job researching and great theory.
Thanks NMB, I figured you to be one of the people to appreciate this.
It was quite difficult to put this into the proper form for it to all fit together properly…hence my silence here recently.
There are still a few things I would like to add to piece it together a little more snug, but I, like Mrs. Hawking, feel “this will do, for now”.
“proper form for it to all fit together properly”…lol, that sounds terrible…
This is all great bro.. I am with you and maybe we should work this out at a different time. Because the thing is I ‘read’ you loud and clear BTCH. GOT IT!
Thanks for Nothing!
Im not going to lie. I dont understand why you speak to me the way you do for no reason.
You tell me your tired of hearing me talk about the same thing, which just happens to be the topic of the most recent episode.
Its clear from the beginning that it is a theory about change. I have been writing them for a while now, and you are obviously tired of reading them.
You insult my theory, by telling me how youve read it all from me, many times before.
You tell me you have a problem with me making a theory of something major that isnt going to be revealed tomorrow.
Your critisizm comes, without any kind of real input for or against my ideas…only that you are tired of hearing the same thing.
I in the nicest way possible am telling you if you dont like what I am writing about right now, or are tired of reading it…just dont read it. If you see it going a direction of change, or something you dont want to hear, stop reading it.
Or…if you do decide to read it, accept what I am saying, debate or discuss, and go on your way.
Or…you can tell me how tired you are of reading the same thing, and I should “let it go for a couple of weeks”…
when I dont know what to say to you, I can apologise for you not liking my theories and recommend that you dont read them if you are that tired of hearing them, in the nicest way I can, for the simple reason that I am just trying to keep a little peace in a situation, much like last week with our problem, it is obviously not possible. Then you can sarcastically tell me that “this is all great”, call me a swear word or two…without the vowels, and again, sarcastically, thank me for ‘Nothing’…
…so are you saying you agree…or disagree with my theory?
First of all, thanks Dab on the compliment 😛
Second of all, Smokey, there’s really no reason in simply insulting a theory without any arguments, other than you’ve heard it before. I agree with AES that you should either write something meaningful or don’t write anything at all. Do you really get your rocks off by blabbing BS at people over the internet?
Now that that’s all said and done on to why I started to post. HurleyBird, I have friends in my Lost watching group that dislike Locke as well for the very same reasons you do. I respect that opinion, but let me provide a counter to your arguments of why he is a bad character. I feel like a lot of the reason that people dislike Locke is because even though he claims to be full of faith he doesn’t exemplify it at all times. He is constantly questioning his faith. However, almost every religious figure throughout history has not always been full of faith. Even Jesus questioned God on the eve of his crucifixion in the Garden of Gethsemane:
“And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, My Father, if it is possible, do not let this happen. However, I want to do the things that you desire. I choose not to do the things that I desire.”
-St. Matthew 26:39
I feel this verse is exemplary of what Locke is. He has only done what the island has told him to. He may have questioned his faith at times (at the hatch after Boone’s death, after he sees the…pearl’s?…video) The only time he acted of his own will was when he stopped the button from being pressed. He realized his err (when he told Charlie that he had to clean up his mess). Since then, Locke has only done what the island has led him to do. He even left the island, knowing that he was going to have to die, just to bring the O6 back for the good of the island.
As you can tell I’ve always liked Locke, and I don’t know if I have expressed my opinions eloquently enough, but I do like Locke because of his faith, and Jack’s lack of faith is what I have disliked in him. However, as of this weeks episode it seems Jack may be turning around. But who knows.
-Benhamine
this theory and discussion is actually very refreshing. it’s a lot better than reading a theory that was posted from another site with the author’s name removed, and a theory that is suppose to be original and unique but was based on a spoiler description of an episode that will air in a couple of weeks. btw, neither of those guys/gals have posted since i questioned their posts.
OT, I also do not understand why you display such hostility to AES. He has only ever been kind to you, IMO. It distresses me to see you treat him this way.
You are also someone on the site, that I like very much. I think you are better than that!
I am also tired of waging the war on the time battle issues, but I love the fact that AES continues to address the subject in a variety of very creative ways, and supports everything he writes with supporting facts and evidence. Then continues to debate anyone who comments with respect and dignity, regardless of their viewpoint.
As many theories that have been written on this subject, I can honestly say, that I don’t know it all myself, but am open to learning anything new that is presented.
Thank you for your support on this one guys and girls.
As I said, Im not trying to beat a dead horse…Im trying to bring it to life..
Make people understand, that this is not just a theory, that it is in fact occuring on Lost..
Benhamine, you’re welcome! You articulate yourself extremely well. Loved your last comment about John Locke questioning his faith. Please post a theory!
username, please accept a big thanks from me for picking up on those posts and speaking directly to the issue. I hope you continue to spot them when they arise on the site.
AES, I have personally learned so much from you from my time spent here on the site!
You have made me a better theorist, and constantly inspire me, to think beyond my own narrow limits in terms of Lost.
I totally devour your theories, and every comment you make.
You are also very kind and generous in the process.
Geez, ontopofoldsmokey… this isn’t the first time you’ve gone after AES and I have to say I’m as baffled as anyone as to the purpose behind it… If he’s done anything wrong to you it was that he’s been too patient with you. If you’re going to fight with someone here, fight over a point. Conversations can get heated here and there’s no problem with that but geez, man, at least have a point…
Well professor ‘Brow”, I know your opinion, but do you get anything new from this theory, or am I repeating myself senselessly to you as well?
You can repeat yourself all you like… I can see why you do it. This is a confusing issue and not everyone has thought about it as much as you and I have. Not to say that we’re smarter than everyone and they need more help to figure it out… it’s just that you and I and some others have really bitten into this issue and just spent more time on it. It’s good that you keep it up for the benefit of those who are still looking into it and trying to formulate their opinion on it.
I, however, am still un-swayed. There are still issues with your argument here (yes, I read it) just as there are issues with my argument for the other side. I’ll let others get into them if they feel so inclined. They will never be resolved through discussion amongst theorists. I can prove you wrong and you can prove me wrong
Yeah, I dont want to touch hat ubtil I have the time it deserves to really read into it…But Im coming Dabsi
A.E.S – Just letting you know I’ve had my eye on this post since this morning. I was waiting to see if OTO replied to explain why he said what he did before responding.
As he hasn’t: OTO, please try and refrain from the insults etc.
Good debates are encouraged here but insults aren’t.
Thank you Em/Admin, I appreciate it. I could really care less if someone likes it or not, just to come in and do what was done is a good way to halt any further conversation on the topic and change my thoughts from defending the theory, to defending why I chose to write about what I write about.
I ignore many posts for the reason that I have read them before by either the theorist, or another theorist, and dont agree with them…
You dont have to tell me you are watching, you havent let me down before, and I dont expect it now.
So how did you like the episode?
And out of curiousity Emzi, on this subject, what do you think?
You rarely get in good chatter here any more. So your turn, agree with me, or set me straight, lol…
What side of the change fence do you fall?
Or are you letting it all play out as well?
highbrow, thanks for hanging out with me in my post!
AES, I never fret because sooner or later, I know you will comment.
Also, it disappoints me that you have to defend why you have written something. That is your right to discuss any topic you choose. It is also the right of anyone, not to read it, or contribute to it, if it is not to their liking.
Of late, I have noticed posts, and comments referring to theories being written that don’t appeal to the average viewer, and that the answers to Lost will be simple, to appeal to the average viewer.
This is a site for theories, and nobody is forcing anyone to read and/or subscribe to anything they don’t want to. Nobody gains anything by being negative. Quite frankly, I was under the impression that variety is the spice of life. There is something for every type of viewer to enjoy on this site.
That is my little rant for the day, and I thank emzi for always being on top of things, and looking out for the members by remaining positive and fair.
Timing is everything…I just did there!
simoposting actually…lol…
AES, we were once again in-sync!
highbrow, what will it take to make you a firm believer in these theories about change?
Perhaps, if you could share what that is, AES could address what is causing you to hold on to the belief, that change is not occurring, if even in the smallest of ways, that may eventually lead to one major change.
Well Dab as per your request I have posted a theory…I think. haha. I’ve never done it before so I clicked submit for review…I hope it will get posted soon. It regards my theory on time travel. I didn’t take on the issue of Locke and his faith yet because I want to make sure I am able to articulate myself well enough. I think I might post a theory in regards to the allegorical metaphors between Locke and Jesus and Christian and Jesus. I was having a debate about this with my roommate (A religion major) and it was extremely interesting. Hopefully I can get that put together soon. Thanks for the inspiration Dab 😛
-Benhamine
Benhamine, I can’t wait to read your theories! I’ll definitely be watching for them!
The one about faith sounds very interesting too! I bet your roommate must have some fascinating ideas. I’d love to know his take. Lucky you!
Its just his thought, highbrows, i mean. just like these are ours…he will not believe the other until he sees it, and neither will we…I have come to accept and respect that decision, and not bother with things like these with him…
Dabs..A for effort, and highbrow kudos for standing behind what you believe…
Appreciate the commments, and keep them going…
You believe in these thoughts, and I say stand behind your belief.
Remember, this recent episode just aired, and we have been saying these things for months. They are our investments, just as the story is the writers…
Dabs, Im sorry for the comments going on on your theory right now, I didnt mean to bring trouble to your post, but for some reason it seems to follow me lately.
ONTOPOFOLDSMOKEY….
You are the type of person that causes problems on a great site like this. I saw it coming from a mile away. I even posted a comment on Thomas’s thread “Where are you all from?”, alluding to a possibility of this occuring in relation to the LT theories problems…I just didnt say your name. You question me having a life, my enjoyment, for this TV show. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You want to know the type of person I am, well here it is. You dangle around, insulting mine and other theories,(for the most recent other than mine, see “I Know”, even if you think its stupid, its not your place to call out a theorist, regardless of the post). When you were insulting my theories, people commented on my patience with you. I tried to tell them you were misunderstood, to help you. But then you move on to others. Leaving ignorant and senseless comments, worse than any theory you have ever commented on. You talk trash on me…in someone elses post, and act like you are sorry, like you didnt mean to do it. I have the most problem with your pollution on others posts, but that fact that it occurres at all is rediculus. My patience, is not because I really care what you are saying, but simply that it was MY theories, at the time, you were ruining with your ignorant comments.
Now you move to Dabs post and talk about how I promote myself all over the site.
I chat on here with Dabs enough to know what I can and cant do on her post. I would never take away from what another has said, unless it is something I disaagree with, in which I would do, in a respectful manner. And in this particular case, I was refering someone that I thought would enjoy a joke theory that I wrote, to my post. If I and another theorist dont mind this occuring, and add compliments to each others theories on a consistant bases, who are you to question any kind of mutual respect we have for each other…and on top of that, in a disrespectful manner on their post.
This, I believe, is what caused an argument before, I had written a theory, and done what many have done before, referenced it on anothers post….yours. You didnt have a problem with it, until I apologized for “stealing your spotlight”, which I meant in a joking manner, because I thought that we had spoken on here enough, and discussed different ideas on each others posts, that it was alright to do being that it is supposed to be a fun site, based on the show Lost. And when I apologized before you even responded, you flipped out. Using capital letters and swearing and threats of seeing me around and finishing things another time, whatever that means. You have already described yourself as a large person, being tough, and whatnot, and throw yourself around here, saying what you will, being ignored most of the time. But Im not going to ignore it. You dont make sense to me, and you are an ignorant bully, who has no idea who they could even be speaking to.
I know you wont be able to respond in a way that doesnt involve swearing without the nouns, or using capital letters in in inappropriate, and unusual way…so you know what…dont bother.
Besides, remember, as you keep telling me, ITS A lOsT theories site, relax…its just a tv show…
Emzi, thank YOU, for your patience I apologize for the things Ive said, and the trouble I caused, however it was that I caused it…I assure you, it will not happen again…
AES, thank you for making a very unnecessary apology to me. The fact that you felt you had to make one, is distressing to me, to say the least. I can’t even begin to imagine how that must make you feel. I only hope you know, I do not share OT’s feelings, which I am sure you know.
You are not responsible for the comments he made in my post, anymore than I am.
You and I DO have a special rapport and a very unique and close bond to one another. Nothing can change that! You are welcome to say anything you like in any of my posts! When the day comes, that we have to start apologizing to one another and ‘walking’ on eggshells, is where I draw the line.
I believe in the right of ‘freedom of expression’, but not at someone elses expense and for it to be harmful or hurtful to anyone. We all experienced this kind of drama on a former site. It has no place on this one, IMO.
We all come here to share our ideas, theories, and comments. And, hopefully share a few laughs in the process. For the most part it has been this way, until recently.
I am also very sorry this happened to you again.
Think I’ve decided not to hang out here. Too many Hostiles. Turning the FDW. I’ll say hi to your sons.
Where’s Highbrow to bring up Kate’s shoulders when it’s really needed?!? 😉
Bummer for the space taken up on your post AES. Is it too late to bring up Locke and Smokey? 🙂
Well, here it goes anyway. This was my comment on another post, but no one wants to chat about this. Is it because it’s so obvious it’s not worth it…or is it because I am missing something therefore it’s not a viable connection??? I think you might be able to help me sort through it, and I trust you if I need to move the heck on.
I
OMG, Kate has mammoth shoulders! How does she walk through doors? Oh, I know! She uses her awesome strength to bust right through the frame!
I didn’t know that the conversation here has, albeit briefly, turned to me. Otherwise I would have been here sooner! I hate to disappoint my fans…
Dabs, as AES said, I will be swayed when I see it on the show. There is no evidence that has been presented anywhere that I am not aware of. At least not that I know… but since I don’t know I’ll assume it’s not out there. Crap, I’m in a theory-loop-paradox thingy. Help!
HI KIM!
Never to late, if it is, I’ll just send highbrow back in time and he can change something so it isnt…
You have me thinking…something you said…or didnt say maybe…hmmmm…
Great, Ive been doing such a good job of not thinking all day…
Give me a little, what you made me think of has more to do with Dabs recent theory …Dabs, dont worry, I went back in time and found myself yesterday, and I said it was OK for me to promote your theory here ;]
Hmmm, whether egyptian or not, there are aspects of your theory I am REALLY starting to believe in….and Im saying this on my post…I’ll be on yours in a few…
Kim, feel free to ‘babble’ away, I like to think of what you say as far more than babble, but regardless, have at it…just be sure to check Dabsisin a bit for more insight into my thoughts…
I meant to say ‘check Dabsi’s in a bit’…not dabsininininii
highbrow, I hate the idea of giving up on you changing your mind, but I realize there would be no fun in that!
I am willing to concede that it is only fair, that you hang onto your viewpoints. You may end up being right about it all, who knows. sigh…..such pain and anxiety. lol
AES, I’ve been called worse! Especially lately! lol You are welcome to promote anything you like in my theories, anytime you like, btw, Permission not required. And, if you want to promote them in yours, that is all good with me too!
Please don’t send highbrow back to the past though! I am afraid he might end up riding on Kate’s broad shoulders! He seems to be quite obsessed with that part of her anatomy. I’m actually a bit worried about his obsession! lol Maybe he’s just a little jealous over Roger ‘creeping’ on her! Perhaps, I should put in a good word for him! lol
OH God, I never thought about it, but that would mean 2 highbrows in the same timeperiod….please touch each other, worst thing that would happen is the universe would be destroyed…hmmm…two highbrows…or the end of the universe…I have to reevaluate my thoughts…
lol…we are going to pay for talking smack with him not here to defend himself, im sure, lol
Well you might have a better chance at getting away with ‘talking smack’ about highbrow, than me!
He gets a little feisty with me at times! lol
But he did say, my niceness reminded him of Paula Abdul today! So, I have to give him credit for that! He seems to be in tune with my finer qualities! lol
PS: If you did send him back in time, I think Ben would have a better chance with the smoke monster! lol Love you, highbrow!
Dabs, the Paula Abdul thing was a compliment, I swear. I appreciate that you can find something nice to say about almost anything. Me? I’m not so skilled at that. Basically when I read a theory I have to boil it down to three choices.
One, agree with the theory and comment on it.
Two, disagree with the theory and argue the point (something I only do with certain posters… with some it’s just a pointless exercise).
Three, disagree with it, state why it’s wrong and move on.
You have an option four. Stroke their ego and tell them that if they just keep trying they’ll get it… Hey, maybe the song just wasn’t right for them… I can’t do that so if I read something that doesn’t fit in one, two or three I keep my mouth shut. So there. I concede to you. You are a better person than I.
As for having two of me in the same time period… the consequence of us touching depends on your school of thought. Back to the future, we freak out and faint. Time Cop, we annihilate each other. Lost? Some asian scientist operating under an assumed name freaks out and acts rude to everyone in the room. I vote for Lost rules.
lol highbrow! I absolutely loved the Paula Abdul compliment. She always finds something nice to say, so I am glad you caught on to me, I think! lol
My head does turn around every now and again like in ‘The Exorcist’, but people tend to still find me lovable, just at a distance though! And, some kind of praying is usually involved…. lol
I vote for “lost rules” too. I think you’d give Chang, a good run for his $$$$. I’d take those odds in Vegas any day!
AES – too bad you can’t send Highbrow back in time for various reasons… I have a feeling Highbrow might turn out like Jack here soon, he might start noticing things that are ‘supposed’ to happen, strange ‘coincidences’ and such, and then Kate, with her big manly shoulders will say, “We’re all just on a plane…” and Highbrow will say, “but I was SUPPOSED to go back…”
Seriously, Highbrow, you are great. Kate’s shoulders will now be my codeword call-out to you to lighten up the situation from nincompoops that insist on pooping around on peoples theories and all that other absolutely bizarre (bipolarish) nonsense.
Back to you AES…I’m glad I made you think. So what do you think?
I’ve given Dabs thoughts on Smokey and her new theory some thought, and I just think there is something more coming with Locke and Smokey. It will be very interesting if Locke (and his ‘savior-ISH’ role has a counterpart, connection, or history with Smokey. Smokey the half-good/half-evil Holy Spirit? Now I’m really just babbling.
I would love to hear more thoughts here or over at NMB’s theory about it. I think NMB makes some good points.
But waaaaiiit….I’m referencing another theory on your theory!?!? (GASP) Am I ‘breaking the rules’??? Kidding….
Kim, I will never be like Jack! If I started believing that I was SUPPOSED to do anything I’d lose that very thing that makes me me. I prefer to do the exact opposite of the thing I’m SUPPOSED to do. Like I’m SUPPOSED to drool over Kate like so many other guys do… I’m more a a Juliet guy though. She’s got her man’s back in front of other people but in private she’ll tell him if he’s being an idiot. Plus she has normal shouders which is a plus.
Whatistime:
Richard actually doesn’t wear eyeliner. I recently read an interview with Michael Emerson, and that was one of the questions. He said he knows people think he does, but it’s his natural appearance, a feature that many people envy.
I know how lame it is that I am talking about eyeliner amongst all these great theories. Oh, well.
You can’t believe anything the writers, producers or actors say… Richard wears eye liner. It’s the secret to his agelessness.