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“What about Me?”…”What about You?”— Jacob, MIB, Ben, Christian, and John Locke

“What about me?”

“What about you?”

A great scene, that in my mind carries a different meaning than many.

The idea that Jacob’s response was belittling Ben…egging him on almost, seems to be popular thought right now.

I too thought the same in terms of Ben’s line to Jacob…at first.

But as I watched the scene again, it seems that it is not Jacob that provokes Ben.
He gives him the opportunity…or better yet, the choice to walk away, and Ben stands his ground, allowing the phrases above to play out.

I think about the way Jacob reacts/responds to Bens question, and I started to think differently.
I dont think he really provokes Ben with his answer, as much as questions it.

“What about me?”
“What about you?”

As if almost to say…
“I have given you life, allowed you to be reborn on MY island, and this is how you repay me?”

Let us not forget that Ben was taken to Richard for healing after his shooting by Sayid.
Richard isn’t pals with Jacobs opposition from the beginning of the episode, he is working for/with Jacob.
Who else would Richard take a dying young Ben to for saving, other than the man who gave him the gift of immortality?

I feel Jacob doesnt do things such as save peoples family, or not give someone cancer.

Ben chose to leave the island, much like Charles many times, judging from his stockpile of passports.

Ben chose to not save his daughter for the island or himself, whichever it truly was.

And Ben chose to stab Jacob, Anti-Locke forced no-ones hand.

With that understanding, Ben’s anger at Jacob was manipulated by Anti-Locke, given truthful scenarios, with a hint of spite thrown in.

Ben has had the choice of walking very different paths, shown by very different individuals, the one he chose should be blamed on nobody but himself, just as all the Losties need to realize.
It seems that the only one right now that does, is the only one lying dead, and being carried around in a large box by some Ajira passengers. And I feel that that mans role is far from over.

John was played by the man holding his form like a fiddle, and gave his life not for this man, but the people on the island.

He may not have killed himself, but I dont think that his death was only for the sake of the Anti-Locke.

It seems to make sense that this is the same man inhabiting Christians body.

Taking the form of a dead man in a casket arriving to the island.

We know Locke was a proxy for Jack’s father, that is why he had to make his return via casket, with the 0ceanic 5 (Minus Aaron, and in my own opinion, the other two Children who left the island, Suns unborn but living child, and Walt).

My issue with Christian being the same thing as Locke, an Anti-Christian (that just sounds wrong in some weird way) has a series of problems from my perspective…

-Where is Christians body?
-How does he appear off island, to Jack in the hospital, and to Michael on the boat?
(something Jacob seems capable of, off island travel)
-If the MIB was able to do this to begin with, why Locke? Why not manipulate Jack into killing Jacob?

I know of their father-son issues, but why not at least try before pulling this plan we see now?

I have a thought regarding the whole Cabin scene, but I am a little “lost” in the whole thing…maybe someone can help me figure a few ideas out.

Im going to throw some quick facts in almost comment form, and try to put some of the pieces together…

-John and Christian both arrived dead on the island.
-Johns physical form is taken over by MIB, and is believed to be him.
-Christian has been walking around on the island from the beginning of the show.
-Several people have seen him, incuding Jack on island and in the hospital, Micheal on the freighter, John in the well and cabin, and Claire, who is led to the cabin by Christian.
-Claire when seen by John in the cabin with Christian, seemed content on leaving Aaron behind.
-Someone in the Cabin asked John to Help them, and even Ben didnt hear it.
-Someone broke the circle of ash… possibly releasing or helping, whoever needed help.
-Christian and Anti-Locke were in two different places at once-Christian with Sun and Frank in some building/hub showing them the picture of the Losties in the 70s. -Anti-Locke was on the other island with Ben.
-Ben seems to recognize the name Christian when it is said by Sun in “Dead is Dead”.
-In “Cabin Fever”, Christian says he can speak on Jacobs behalf, ALMOST in a sarcastic manner. Meaning possibly two things…
1) He is Jacob, and it is humorus because he is “speaking on his own behalf, unknowing to Locke)
2) He is MIB, and its funny because he is most likely doing speaking exactly what Jacob wouldnt say.
(Of course I could throw crazy option number three out there, THAT CHRISTIAN IS CHRISTIAN…but I dont want do get too crazy, so lets stick with a possession of sort for now)
;]

These facts bring me to a few very speculative ideas, and possibilities, but without the right connections to turn them into their own theories….

-Claire may, for whatever reason, be the one who broke the ash ring. Possibly if told to by her “father”,Christian, who claims to Locke that he cannot help him in the well. Which I took in the physical manner, and still do at this time. With Christians ability to appear anywhere, on or off island, it seems possible that he cannot have true contact with space, and lives outside of it and time at this point.
I would assume that if he is actually either of the two beings, that Jacob would be the more logical choice, although I believe he may actually be Christian Shepard.

-I am also considering the possibility, that if this indeed Jacob playing the role, that he may have actually spoken to Ben at some point, based on his reaction to Sun saying Christian’s name, furthering my argument above, as to why Jacob questions Bens loyalty, with his, “What about you?” comment. Because little to Bens knowledge, if he spoke to Christian, he may have spoke to Jacob, even if through Christian form…or by playing a game of telephone, by way of Christian giving Ben Jacobs word.
Then again, if it is the MIB working with or through Christian, Benjamin Linus has been manipulated and tricked worse than anybody else on the island, for over thirty years of mis life, and been even a bigger pawn than Locke in the previous season.

Running with the thought that the Christian Shepard we see walking around on the island is actually Christian Shepard, and NOT MIB or JACOB, I have to stop and think about the thought that John Locke is dead in a box.

If there is some chance, some possibility that Christian is actually alive in any way, I have to allow myself to believe that John Locke has the same ability. Especially considering that unless some time manipulation has been deviated behind the scenes, or MIB can be in two places at once, or Jacob is Chrisian Shepard (in which case we will not see him again either if Jacob is dead)…it seems correct to expect a TRUE resurrection of John Locke in the final season.

Well, thats all I have for now, although if we can get something going on this, I have a few more ideas to throw into the pot…but it needs stirred a little first. So again, please let me hear your thoughts.
I hope I have presented something a little different that can possibly bring about some new ideas, and possibly help me in the direction I am headed with everything.

Well, you heard my thoughts, and now know…

“What about me?”

So how do you feel on all of this…Please tell me…

“What about you?”

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Written by

A.E.S.

Abbot Enheduanna Schwarzschild

20 thoughts on ““What about Me?”…”What about You?”— Jacob, MIB, Ben, Christian, and John Locke

  1. a whole lotta great observations and i totally forgot that anti-locke and christian were out and about at the same time. it really is hard to put all these outrageous facts together into one theory that makes sense and at the same time is more than just a collection of observations. as for christian off the island, i have no idea how that can be the MIB since we have no indication that he was ever off the island. could it simply be written off as a hallucination from whatever drugs jack was on? that seems like a copout. great thoughts though!

  2. AES, what a great theory, and what wonderful ideas you have placed in front of us to explore!

    I am in complete agreement with you, regarding Jacob’s words to Ben. Jacob healed Ben, and made him the leader of ‘the others’, in addition to healing Juliette’s sister, etc.

    Ben showed his gratitude for all of this, with a slap in the face! He lied, manipulated, conned, killed, and most of all disrespected the ‘ second life’ he was given!

    Jacob’s question posed to Ben, was completely logical. He was disappointed and insulted by Ben’s sheer arrogance, when he said to him, “what about me”?

    I have two minds when it comes to Christian Shephard, and have made no firm decision. I like what you have presented, in terms of Christian, either being Jacob himself, or just plain Christian Shephard! I sincerely doubt he is the MIB, but…..

    I could see Jacob working through Christian, because Jacob needed to reunite Sun & Frank with present day, and ultimately with the other ‘losties’. It is also understandable that Jacob was fully aware of his Nemesis’ plan, but had to fulfill his part.

    However, if we consider that Christian is none other than Christian himself, and acting on Jacob’s behalf, I can also see this as being valid as well.

    He would be considered as furthering Jacob’s plan and acting in accordance with ‘the island’s best interest, and that of his children, and grandchild! Especially, if Aaron has some legacy with ‘the island’.

    I firmly believe that although John Locke might be dead, we will see him again next season. Two John Locke’s is not out of the question, and what fun that would be, trying to figure out which one was who!

    I have to believe that the writers would give Locke the opportunity to be some kind of hero!

    If anyone deserves it, he does, IMO!

    I will be interested to see what others have to say!

    Lovely theory, and most insightful!

  3. As the show progressed from the first season I always thought “Christian Shephard is an Other!” This post makes me return to that theory. For some reason I don’t see the minds behind Lost giving Jacob or MiB the power to possess more than one body. It just sounds too…easy?

    I’m so glad that I’ve been made aware that Christian and bizzaro-Locke have been seen on the island in the same time frame. This confirms my gut feeling that, despite the appearance of evil, Christian is helping to further the plan of Jacob.

    One thing that would be good to know is: Under what conditions can Jacob and the MiB possess another body? Do they need to die in their current body? Or can they leave at will? Does their next body NEED to die first? What if they are merely willing to have it occupied? It will be great to see how that plays out.

    Either way, I’m sure Jacob is one step ahead of his Nemesis. Either in another body, making him believe he’s killed the real Jacob, or he has already prepared his next host.

    Great post. 5 Stars!

  4. Rambo…(may I call you Rambo?)…

    Im glad you see the discrepency I have with the Anti-Locke and Christian being “out and about” together…makes it seem almost impossible (I know, nothing is impossible on Lost).

    Im not one to scream cop-out, but if they were simply hallucinations, I will be thoroughly disapointed.
    ——————————————–

    Dabsi…

    Glad you are with me on the idea of Christian not being MIB…although I do feel your “but…”(awww, that sounds dirty)…

    As for Christian being Christian…I like the idea for 2 reason…
    1)It makes the family ties of the Shepard family hold a value that to me, carries more weight than just being someone else the whole time.
    It also allows us as theorists a way to find something new, instead of him being a gamepiece in the whole show (yes I know of all the references to games)

    2)It gives light to the possibility that John Locke has a chance to return, and actually be John Locke.
    I know you feel my hope for a Locke return, and although I think Jack will be the “great man” when it is all said and done, I feel Locke is more important in terms of faith issues than any other character.
    ——————————————–MightyEide…

    I too have had that Christian is an Other feeling.
    I always thought we would see him as a younger self in the 50s or 70s flashbacks…although it may be possible that the time has passed, I still feel his role will be more than a pawn…

    Let us not forget, Jacob knowing to us, has NOT possessed another form, although it is possible…and MIB doesnt necessarily possess(I worded it incorrectly myself) someone, he doesnt have control of Lockes body, only took his form…

    Although it does seem that the individual must be dead to do whatever it is they/he does/do.

    I like the idea you present of someone willingly giving themselves as a host though, even if it only means they can take their physical form.

    It does seem Jacob is one step ahead, somehow knowing that Anti-Locke is MIB…
    ——————————————–

    Thanks to all who commented, and I hope this post can stir up some more conversation…I have been waiting to see if anyone else caught the fact that both MIB and Christian were up and about together, and it seems nobody had.

    For the sake of disagreeing theorists, I understand that some believe that the main island and the Hydra island are seperated by some sort of time discrepency, and once thought it possible myself.
    But I think that by the fact that the people from 316 who travelled by boat to the main island didnt go through any sort of time shift/portal/flashing light, they are of the same period, as they have been throughout the entire show.
    Not to mention that the smaller island flashed with the main island…or “our” island as Ben puts it.

  5. There is also one more tidbit of a clue to “something” that I have been waiting for someone to acknowledge…

    Jack put his fathers shoes on Locke.

    When we see Anti-Locke early in season 5, he is taking the shoes that were originally Christians, and putting them in his bag.

    (With three clicks of the heels to clean the dirt off, in an almost Wizard of Ozish, “there’s no place like home” way, someone else caught this “heel clicking” and pointed it out immediatly after the episode aired)

    I struggle to find the importance and signifigance in the shoes.
    If Christian had worn them upon arrival via 815 casket, I would be more privy to the idea that they are the same.

    Butsince he did not, I cant help but feel that Anti-Locke has plans for those shoes.
    But I dont think they will be as important in the sense of Christian/MIB, as much as Anti-Locke using them down the road to convince Jack that he is truly Locke…to which I hope Jack is smart enough to somehow see through.

    I speculate that it will be Christian himself, that will explain the situation to Jack regarding Anti-Locke/MIB, and that he will do so with regards to the magic shoes.

  6. AES, we’re certainly on the same wavelength regarding the conversation between Ben and Jacob. I just commented on this subject back on my post.

    When it comes to the shoes, I think color is incredibly important. Whenever we see Christian in white shoes on or off the island, I’m sure we’re seeing Jacob. However, whenever we see Christian decked out in gray on the island, with no suit and tie, it’s Smokey. Now, add the element of a black pair of shoes that Jack places on Locke’s feet before the Ajira flight, and we have a story! As you know from what I wrote previously, I think Jacob needed Black to succeed in killing him, which might explain why Eloise put Locke’s body on the plane. If so, there is no doubt in my mind that those black shoes were meant precisely for Mr. Black, and maybe it will be our Losties’ way of distinguishing between different Christians next season.

    Good stuff!

  7. I think the comment from jacob to ben “what about you” was in no way to provoke ben, Jacob also tells ben that he has a choice and he can go and let anti-locke and himself talk about their differences. I think the reason jacob asks ben “what about you?” is the point of selflessness and free will , what you see everytime jacob has a scene in the finale.

    choice

  8. Does Christian ever express himself in terms of full knowledge of his real life? I noticed MIBJohn was a bit cagey wrt things that happend when he was alife.

  9. Very nice, AES! I agree that we seem to be on the same page. You have laid out the most obvious scenarios for us, and I am sure a lightbulb of some kind will click on in somebody’s mind after reading this.

    To me, there are three “beings” that seem able to shape shift, and those are Smokey, MIB, and Jacob. However, for the current time, I believe the ridiculous idea that Christian is Christian, although I am keeping an open mind. And then if that is the case, then it is obvious that I should believe that we have not seen the last of Locke.

    As for Claire, it is hard to say. If I had a ligit argument behind it, I would say that Claire is not dead, but I have no idea. This is just a hunch, aside from the fact that Kate told Claire’s mother (in a very abrupt manner, I might add) that she was going back to find Claire.

    That is all I can write for now, but I have a couple of theories I am working on and will be posting them soon, or I will be posting them in the fall after I watched and posted about the past seasons. 😉

  10. waycurious…that is the exact question I had to ask myself for some things to make sense and this theory to, at the very least, somewhat work…

    The best answer I can give you is a line from the father of the year , Christian, himself…

    “Say hello to my son for me…”

  11. waycurious, when it comes to specific knowledge about Christian, I think it all depends on who’s controlling the wheel, pardon the pun, at any given time that he opens his mouth. If it’s the smoke monster or Mr. Black, the knowledge comes from a plethora of sources, pretty much anyone Smokey had the opportunity to examine or Mr. Black embodied. It could be a sort of six degrees of separation scenario, where it knows certain things through interactions others had with specific people on the island. Given the complex web of connections between characters on the show, the producers have made it pretty difficult to determine exactly who knows what about who and, more interestingly, when they first learned it! I think Jacob managed to infiltrate Christian’s body when it landed on the island the day of the crash. If so, this would give him complete knowledge concerning Christian and his kinship.

  12. “Say hello to my son”?,
    “Say hello to my son”??.
    The thing pretending to be Locke was a lot more convincing than that. And he turned out to NOT be Locke. So I don’t see how the above is any evidence at all that Christian is Christian.

  13. Regardless, that was the least of my original theory…it just provoked conversation.

    The heart of the theory lies in the reason of Jacob’s words to Ben, “What about you?”, and further trying to prove that MIB is NOT Christian due to the reasons I stated.

    If you read carefully, you will see that after that subject, I asked everyone for help, based on some facts that I threw out regarding the scenarios that played out during the cabin scenes, and relating to those who have been inside with someone who supposedly is, or can speak for Jacob.

    In regards to answering waycurious’s question, I admitted that it is a question that plagued me during the writing of the theory, and further went on to add about possible time discrepencies and the “shoe” factor…

    So any input you have towards the cause would be greatly appreciated following your rebuttal to the “Say hello to my son comment…”, because I am still questioning the scene myself.

    Thanks again Banlius, and I’ll be looking forward to your input…
    ;]

  14. I’ve always felt that Christian is an important character to the story, and I’ve given him a lot of thought.. So what do we know about Christian on the Island – when does he first appear? Now, given that no one has pointed this out – I’m guessing most(if not all) of you would say: Jack(Sees him in the jungle, right..?) Wrong! The first one to interact with Christian on the Island(as far as been shown) is no other than – VINCENT! In Lost Missing Peices 13, we see Vincent being called by Christian, who Tells him: “I need you to find my son, I need you to wake him up.. He has work to do..” This is right after the crash, before Jack opens his eyes. A.E.S. I’ll back you on that – “Say hallo to my son” stuck with me too. The first one to see Christian in the cabin(where it gets tricky)is Hurley, when looking through the window(before being startled by an eye popping up – which I still have a is extremely important to the endgame – who the Hell was/is that?) Also important to note that Christian here is wearing his suite and white shoes(the next time we see him, he’s wearing “Other’s” clothes) Any input?

  15. AES, given Angivel’s remark about Vincent, (which I had forgotten about), (great work, Angivel), and you bringing up Christian’s words; “say hello to my son”, I am fully on board with Christian being Christian and nobody else!

    This is good logic!

  16. Angie, I feel that the mobisodes are extremely important, and I encourage all to watch them.

    My next theory actually has a mobisode reference, so Im glad you brought that up.

    Dabs you are correct that Angie has a great call on the scene with Vincent. Missed that one, and I greatly appreciate posting a scene that some may not even know exists!

    I cant help but think that Jacob may have given Christian a similar gift thaht he gave Richard.
    We still dont know exactly how Jacob made Richard that way.
    There is a possibility that he was dead, and Jacob may have touched him, in the same manner that he touched Locke after falling out the window, something someone else pointed out shortly after the episode aired.

    I have been patiently awaiting the story of Richard Alpert.
    He is one of the biggest mysteries of the show, and I feel holds secrets to the show such as how Jacob works, and What he is truly capable of.

    He never seems truly concerned, and feel that without Jacob, he may lose his gift.

  17. In regards to the shoes anti lock would not no they belonged to Christian lock was a dead body when they were put on him so when MIB took his form he would of just thought they were part of his buriel suit. I think when he took them off it was a clue from the producers he was a fake anti lock would most probly walk about bare foot and when he tapped them 3 times (theirs mo place like home) maybe this was to signify anti lock was home and he found his loophole

  18. I just got an idea about Locke´s death. Ben said: What is dead is dead. Charlotte said:This place is death. Could it mean, that it is possible to get alive just on this place? Locke met Walt, when he was off the Island. Walt told him something like, there will be some people around you going to hurt you. It could be the scene, when Ceaser, tried to stop John. But in fact it wasn´t John, but Jacob. If some line or structure of LOST is correct, this situation hasn´t happened yet. It could happen later, when they find out that John is not John, but he will be John again. Sounds crazy. But the next point I dont think that the all thing with Jacob and MIB with transferring bodies is correct, because under the statue, Jacob said, you find that /sorry, english is not my native language/ place to kill me. MIB told Jacob, in the beginning, i will find a way to kill you, Jacob. So it was real Jacob who got killed in the end.

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