Everyone was so concerned with what lies in the shadow of the statue last
Everyone was so concerned with what lies in the shadow of the statue last
Everyone was so concerned with what lies in the shadow of the statue last
Richard Alpert has never received a single order or list from Jacob. The culture of the Others is one massive lie from start to finish. Jacob has never been involved in their culture, their customs, or their rules.
Falpert has been lying to Widmore, Hawking & Ben from day one.
Jacob has become a system of control for Falpert, holding the fear/respect for Jacob over the heads of the Others for decades if not longer.
Falpert and Flocke are alligned.
Ben has literally killed people in order to keep the Island hidden and to prevent more people from coming to the Island. Out of the two schools of thoughts, who is more likely to keep people away from the Island…Jacob or Jacob’s Nemesis? Jacob invites people to the Island, he doesn’t keep them away. So do you think Ben is putting Jacob’s methods into practice? Allow me to answer: he isn’t. Jacob has been inviting people to the Island throughout history without fear…he doesn’t act as a ‘security system for the Island’….which is ironically a phrase often used to describe Smokie’s function.
Smokie, Flocke & Falpert are alligned. Ben has been serving their side, not Jacob’s. Let’s call them Team Nemesis.
Why doesn’t Alpert age? Because he’s dead. The real Richard Alpert came on The Black Rock(as most of us would probably agree), died, and his body became an option for Team Nemesis. He says ‘Whatever I am, Jacob is the reason why’. Team Nemesis has a vendetta against Jacob, much like Ben sought vengeance against Charles Widmore, but he couldn’t kill him because of a rule, just like Team Nemesis couldn’t kill Jacob until they found a loophole. Notice in both of these conflicts that Ben is on the side of blood-thirsty vengeance. I’m not sure just yet why exactly Team Nemesis is seeking revenge, though the God & Devil archetypes that I think Jacob & Nemesis are clearly based on have always made me think that Jacob somehow threw Nemesis out of his club. There was a ‘fall’ of some sorts. Nemesis used to be better, bigger, more powerful, but Jacob reduced him to something less, something more human. This explains the quote ‘Whatever I am, Jacob is the reason why’. But Team Nemesis is not happy about their situation.
Why is it that Ben asked Falpert repeatedly to meet/see Jacob, yet was denied time and time again…yet when Flocke asks Falpert, he’s ushered to the foot? Because Flocke & Falpert are in-league with each other. They share the same goals. Sure, there’s a conversation in The Incident where Falpert and Flocke speak, and nothing in there would indicate that they’re on the same page…but nothing really contradicts the concept. They’re not far from Ben, they could just be staying in character while exchanging ideas like ‘the people from ajira will have to be taken care of’.
Jacob never told Falpert to save Young Ben Linus, it was Falpert’s own decision. He personally picked Ben out as the weakest link of the Dharma Initiative. He knew that exploiting Ben was the easiest way in. He has done this for centuries, find the weakness, attack, conquer, assimilate. Over time he has developed the institution that is The Others as a means for controlling an Army that can swiftly help him take out these various invading groups like the U.S. Military, Egyptians, The Black Rock, etc. Thus, Ben needed to survive…but when Widmore challenged Falpert’s decision, he tells Widmore ‘Jacob told me to do it’. When? He traveled to the foot that fast? Or did he already know Ben was coming? If he knew Ben was going to be shot, why didn’t he prevent it? After all, this is the chosen one, chosen by Jacob. Or so goes Falpert’s big fat lie.
If Falpert was communicating with Jacob, why did he need to go off-Island 3 times to test Locke and determine if he was a future leader? He could’ve just asked Jacob. But since he never talks to Jacob, Alpert had to do some investigating. And no, he wasn’t testing Locke to see if he was special…he was testing Locke to see if Locke was from the future. That’s why he was so upset that Locke apparently picked the wrong item…he was developing his plan already, Locke being a future pawn of his. Why do you think Falpert’s ears perked up when he heard Locke mention Jacob’s name? He probably shared that name with very few people(if any) before that moment. And so the plan began….
Jacob would never order a purge or sanction a purge yet Ben says he was ‘following orders’ with regards to the purge. Who’s orders? Falperts. I doubt Falpert was told to mass-murder by Jacob. In fact, in the year 2007, we have Nemesis ordering another purge. So what are the odds that both Jacob and Nemesis are in favor of purges? People argue over which side is good, Jacob’s, or his Nemesis’s…but you can’t argue that NEITHER is good. Lost will come down rather definitively on one side or the other. Only one side can use mass-murder, and we directly witnessed Nemesis in the form of Flocke ordering one…so it stands to reason that Nemesis ordered the first Purge.
How did Team Nemesis get Ben to purge people anyways? They got him to kill Jacob by using the ghost of his dead daughter Alex…if only there was another dead relative of his we’ve seen on the Island who Team Nemesis could use to manipulate him…hmmm…oh yeah that’s right, his dead mother, Emily Linus, who originally leads Ben to FALPERT of all people…the same dead mother he tells Jack taught him how to read(we all thought that was just a funny Ben-the-pathological-liar moment didn’t we?)…I bet Ben’s dead mother spent ALOT more time with him than we’ve been shown, and we’ll see more of it next week. Team Nemesis will stop at nothing. Hey Mr. Eko, you feel guilty about your brother dying? Yemi pops up. You stand firm and say you did what you had to do and show strength? You get eliminated. For Team Nemesis, they kill the strong and promote the weak and use the weak to govern the rest. Widmore gets exiled for a reason…like Eko, he’s a threat. On the contrary, Ben & Locke, the two moths who were taken out of their cocoon before they could be strong enough for the world, are the weak leaders of The Others. You will not find two more downtrodden, pathetic, emotionally crippled, spiritually vulnerable characters on Lost than Benjamin Linus & John Locke. They have been through hell and Team Nemesis knows it and uses them as their favorite puppets.
Hey, while I’m talking about dead relatives, it’s kind of interesting that Falpert marches into the Barracks and leaves with Amy’s husband’s body over his shoulder. It wouldn’t i surprise me if next season we learn Amy was manipulated via dead-husbandry to help Falpert get a hold on Dharma from the inside.
Funny how Falpert always pops up in the jungle too…same way FHarper popped up and told Juliet to kill Faraday and Charlotte(before they could shut off the gas and save every HUMAN being on The Island)…it’s almost like they’re using the Cerberus vents, don’t you think? Beware of Team Nemesis.
Juliet tells Falpert that she could only come to the Island if a bus hits her ex-husband. A bus hits her ex-husband. Does this sound like something Jacob would endorse, support, or order? Or does this sound like the act of the bad guys, Team Nemesis, making sure she comes to the Island? Everybody always chalked it up to fate when that bus hit her ex…now we have a confirmed ACTIVE force manipulating events, and we need to rethink these uber-cool moments with this in mind.
When Flocke gives Falpert instructions as to treating the wound in time-skipping Locke’s leg, Falpert acts befuddled and amazed(because Ben is in his presence)…when Alpert attends to Locke’s wound, he is completely certain of what to say and do and even goes beyond what Flocke instructed him to do…because they are in-league and working on the same plan. After all, why would Falpert be so amazed…Locke has time-traveled to him and handed him his own compass, and if we’re to believe Falpert’s perspective, he’s now saying Locke has risen from the dead…yet he’s amazed? He’s putting on a show.
Falpert takes young Ben into the temple, same place that Flocke takes Ben to find Smokie. Both Flocke and Falpert have intimiate knowledge of the substructures of the Island. Falpert puts Jughead under the barracks. Falpert knows PRECISELY which wall to break down to get into the Barracks. Falpert knows where Jacob is. Characters refer to Falpert and say ‘he’s as old as the Island’. Well, the Island was there wayyyyy before The Black Rock arrived, so how can Falpert be as old as the Island if Alpert didn’t arrive on it until 1850????? Because he was using a different ‘shell’ or ‘host’ or ‘costume’ or whatever you want to call it, up until that round of conflict-conquering-assimilating of The Black Rockians.
Can’t wait to hear your thoughts 🙂
Lost has always been a show that has centred on conflict from two opposing sides. The early reference to backgamon showing how 2 opponents operate when in battle. Its happened throughout the shows history. The survivors vs. The Others. Jack as a man of science vs. Locke as a man of faith. Ben vs. Widmore. and it would appear to be rooted in the oldest of conflicts, Jacob vs his unnamed rival.
Now all we the viewer know about their conflict comes from the opening of The Incident. Jacob appears to ‘bring’ people, human beings, to the island, an action which angers his rival. His rival seems to have a great deal of cynicism about outsiders. They come they fight they corrupt. Jacob intends to prove him wrong. He obviously must see the good in mankind.
what is most intersting is when Jacob says ‘it ends only once, everything else is just progress’. To this his rival turns hostile. what ends only once? I personally think its the cycle, a cycle that will eventually result in one of their deaths. one triumphing over the other.
I think these 2 individuals are dependent on one another. whatever happens in the loop therefore breaks this dependency and one is able to kill the other.
I personally am trying to formulate a theory that both these men are in fact the same person, just of different age and somehow caught in the same period of time. Further to this, i believe they could both be Aaron, one a version of him raised by Claire, the other a version raised by someone else. Two conflicting versions of oneself.
Obviously i have no evidence of this! but i will keep digging and formulating.
whats good people?……..i hope my questions don’t bother anybody…but i’m just trying to understand this series….the first time i watched lost i ean through the episodes not thinking about anything…but as i read thories and other questions i start to think maybe i’m not the only one…..but anyway my question is:
maybe this has been talked about before but i was just wondering…..did a polar bear turn the wheel? b/c i recall charlotte finding one in the desert
I thought it was odd, but very typically Lost, that jacobs rival wasnt named in the episode. I automatically assumed that the reason he wasnt named is because he has a name that we the viewer are familiar with. I personally think it
I just realized something. At the beginning of the incident episode, Jacob and fella are sittin there lookin at the ship in the distance. The ship is inside the island “bubble” right? Then who is to say that we are in fact looking at a scene that takes place within the past 200 or so years? Our losties just “landed” on the island 30 years before they were expecting to. It’s 1977 for them, instead of 2004 (or whatever).
First of all, I never saw any evidence that the ship that Jacob and MIB were looking at was indeed the Black Rock to begin with (although it probably is). Secondly, how do we know that the ship didn’t just cross into the island’s bubble into some timeframe close to the B.C. period? As in, it jumped back in time a few thousand years? The statue is perfectly intact as well, almost looked freshly sculpted, indicating that maybe that scene is in fact taking place a VERY long time ago. It really doesn’t matter much what year it is during that conversation between the two guys, I know. It’s a little interesting to think that we could be seeing the island thousands of years ago during that scene though.
We are 5/6 through this show so to speak. I believe that, given how late we are in the show’s lifespan, we can figure something out if we try hard enough. By now, we all know what the smoke monster has done, what it’s capable of, and possibly it’s general purpose (judging). Maybe we should seriously look at what it HASN’T done though, and try to justify why it hasn’t done those things in order to figure out it’s origin. I’m fed up with it. Everytime I see this thing on an old episode, I’m thinking “Oh no, what kind of mysterious and obnoxiously crazy thing are ya about to do this time Smokie?” and then it does something crazy and mysterious of course, and it gets on my nerves.
So let’s look at what it HASN’T done. Smokie has never stopped and looked at Jack. Jack, at one point, was the leader and main character of this show, and I believe still is. Smokie gives John Locke all the attention in the world in the first season. It saw eye to eye with John at least once, and it tried to drag him underground in the season 1 finale for whatever reason. Where we are now though, with the show almost over, Jack still has not been judged by the smoke monster from what we have seen. Is there a reason for that? Was he judged as he was laying on his back immediately after the crash? Some think so. I don’t. Does it have something to do with his own dad being seen everywhere? We know Smokie was Alex in the chamber with Ben right? So it can “do” dead people, that’s a fact.
Perhaps Smokie judged the 815 pilot before Jack, Kate, and Charlie had arrived to speak with him in the pilot episode. That might explain why smokie was so quick to ending the pilot’s life when our losties arrived there. It judged Eko, then at a later date, killed Eko. Almost like how it probably judged Locke, then tried to kill him by attempting to drag Locke under at a later date. Ben might be the next victim since Smokie just recently judged him.
Smokie’s been around forever though. A lot of people think it’s MIB, some even think it’s Jacob, I’m a believer that it’s its own being. It seeps out of an ancient temple. A temple that the Egyptians once resided or worshipped in a very long time ago. Then there’s good ol’ Ben who was able to summon it and was able to control it for a while. Would MIB or Jacob let Ben do that to them? Doubt it, hence Smokie’s in a world of it’s own. I think we all agree that Ben’s a pawn, not an island ruler…..This isn’t really going anywhere, just a lot of repeated questions really. I had all these excellent ideas in the shower about an hour ago, now I can’t remember a damn thing. Sorry. I’d refrain from submitting this “theory” but I’ve typed too much by now to let it all go to waste. Besides, I want some answers on Smokie, and maybe someone has something. If we can think backwards a little bit and think about what Smokie has NOT done, I think that would help
in the episode “something nice back home”…..did miles hear claire?…..was claire dead?…..she said “i feel better, i’m not seeing things anymore”….miles asked her what was she seeing….sawyer interrupted him…..then from a distance he’s staring at her very strangely as if he’s too far to hear her….maybe i’m going into this toom uch but what do the people think?
Why does Charlie change those white things on his fingers from “FATE” to “LATE”?
This is a quote from Season 1 Episode 2 Tabula Rasa. It seems kind of… i don’t know, ironic. “It doesn’t matter what we did before this, before the crash.”
As in, what is THIS Place? Just found this site, i used to post on lost theories but it vanished one day. Anyone know what happened to it? Also, is angelo comet here? His posts were fab. so far i love the site, well put together and some nice ideas. Anyway, Looking forward to getting some answers, both to this post and to the show as a whole!
Going on the assumption that Evil Locke is the gray-haired man in the beginning of season 5’s finale The Incident.
I season 5’s finale The Incident. When Richard showed ‘Evil’ Locke the place where Jacob lives (inside the statue) why was ‘Evil’ Locke surprised? Shouldn’t he have technically known where Jacob lives since he’s the evil guy in the beginning?
How did Anthony Cooper, John Locke’s presumed biological father, get to the island?
well, my extremlyclever title, is actualy an amalgumation of lost and holiday.
its strange and almost ridiculous how obsessed with lost i actually am
basically, i went on holiday for the past week, to a little island in the Outer Hebridess in Scotland called Barra.
on the first day, my girlfriends father, told me of a rock, that had only twice ever been climbed unguided by ropes. needless to say, i was determined to climb this rock.
when i got there it was a horrendously large rock about twenty to twwenty five feet high.
i was beginning to find my path up the brute, when in the corner of my eye, i saw a huge Black horse. just like the one we see in lost. im told shorlty after this that it is a famous horse of barra from a long line of horses owned by the family of Compton Mackenzie. Seeing this horse, and with Lost in my mind i began to make my way up the rock. i failed, in fact, i jumped off slipped in some sheep faeces, and hurt my coxis, tail between my legs we climbed down the mountain.
that is all for now. there isnt anymore.
hey you guys. im just rewatching some losts. by the sounds of it thats what most of us seem to be doing,haha.
something really puzzles me and that is the whole cindy going missing situation?
they were carrying an injured sawyer in a sretcher, from the tailies camp to our losties camp. then they came across a small rocky hill that they had to climb. and cindy just completely vanished? nobody saw or heard anything, how bizzare and weird is that?
i was thinking that could she have always had a connection to the island, like could she have always been an other? or could the island have took her somehow?
what do you guys think, any ideas?eko rocks
In between seasons, I always find it a good time to reflect on things we’ve already seen in the past and forget about what may happen. Today I decided to check out The Comic Con videos from years past. Similarly, I highly recommend checking out the new Oceanic Video….
What I thought about specifically was the Orchid video – which I found to be the best of these ‘break’ videos. Dr. Chang mentions the Casimir effect and another No. 15 rabbit shows up. He exclaims not to let the two rabbits near each other. We know what will happen from Season 3, approximately a year and a half before the video is released: Sawyer is injected with some apparatus, we can assume the No. 8 rabbit (Bonnie) is too. Bonnie is placed on Sawyer’s chest in a cage post-injection, convulsed by Ben and dies. Sawyer realises later that when Ben told him it was all a ruse that perhaps they got another rabbit and painted an 8 on it. When asking Ben how does he know this is not the case, Ben replies that he doesn’t. Sawyer is frightened that he may have been injected with a pacemaker or some equivalent device that can blow up his heart and that Ben has double-crossed him. Ben, nonetheless has planted a seed of doubt. What Sawyer doesn’t know is that though he is right, instead of the fear that the rabbit died of cardiac arrest, he died as a result of the casimir effect point out by Dr. Chang in the Orchid video. Therefore, we know the casimir effect is at work on the island and can be manipulated when necessary or in certain contexts. That said, we know that certain properties of the island allow for a second manifestation of an object, i.e. the two No. 15 rabbits and probably the two No. 8 rabbits – interesting allusion Rabbit 8 and Rabbit 15 : 815. Therefore, can we assume that it is not something mystical that Esau is doing, but purely science? Is his manifestation of John Locke, i.e. Anti-Locke, simply a by-product of the casimir effect. I think it is. I don’t think when Anti-Locke came upon himself on two occassions (at the hatch and when he sends Richard to go help himself) that he just decided not to go near his former self for the sake of scaring Former-Locke or causing some back to the future type paradox. He avoided the meeting in order to avoid the effect of this meeting, which is death via the casimir effect. How would Esau know about this effect? Well, he’s been on the island for a very long time and in addition, as he is able to manipulate manifestations of people’s bodies and seems in a sense unaging, then we can assume that he can manipulate time and space, similar to the casimir effect. For further, factual info on what exactly the casimir effect is, check out wiki. However, for a dumbed down version it is simply the reaction of force and it’s varying particles between two objects or plates. I recommend checking wiki. Let me know what you think of this theory.
when Richard visits Locke as a young boy, there is a drawing on the wall which clearly depicts the smoke monster.
i think there could be two possible reasons for this.
firstly, a time loop is happening so subconciously, John remembers the smoke monster even though up to this point in his current life he has not encountered it yet.
or, the smoke monster actually has some iconic meaning (death, fate etc) within the story and if John had had some sort of dream about, for example death, when he was young, this could explain the drawing.
or maybe there (probably) is some other explaination?
i do think, however, that this drawing needs explaining though in S6.
I wrote a previous theory that led me to this idea called Simple as “Black & White”
Which in a long drawn out text explains how the issues between Jacob and FLocke may not be good vs evil but just the opinion of polar opposites (we have talked a lot about magnets!)
I believe Jacob touched them all (the O6) so that this time (everything keeps happening over and over and he tries to change it “making progress” – read the first theory) everything could play out different. His touch caused a connection between Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Kate, Gin, Sawyer, even Locke and Sun (who are already in the present)probably to transport them all to the present at the moment he said ‘they’re coming’ so that they can stop FLocke.
The problem is that in my original theory I noticed that FLocke gave the original order to bring everyone back, so how much of a threat to him could they be.
UNLESS – he does not know about Jacob’s personal visits!!! Which can be like having received the touch of an angel, maybe they are permeable to his black smoke attacks!
Maybe he is so nice to Sun because he knows of her threat level to him. Locke is dead so… not concerned.
Either way – when THEY do come, he is going to pretend to be Locke and Sun is going to expose him (no one is going to believe Richard or the others over a living breathing walking Locke, and he owns Ben so he is not talking) Sun is the key!
we all know that the others took people from the tail section, but what has happened to them? have they travelled about with the losties, if not, why not?
Ok stick with me my mind is finally constructing a theory that works and explains almost all of this Show from episode 1 season 1 till now. Lets start with the conversation between Jacob and as you all call him MIB. MIB’s name more than likely doesn’t matter anyways for the story line to work. Ok the conversation and I qoute
MIB: good morning,
JACOB: good morning,
MIB: mind if I join you?
JACOB: please want some fish
MIB: no thank you i just ate
JACOB: i take it your here because of the ship
MIB: i am how did they find the island
JACOB: youll have to ask them when they get here
MIB: i dont have to ask you brought them here still trying to prove me wrong aren’t you
JACOB: you are wrong
MIB: am i? they come they fight they destroy they corrupt always ends the same
JACOB: it only ends once anything that happens before that is just progress
MIB: you have any idea how badily i want to kill you
MIB: one of these days sooner or later im going to find a loophole
JACOB: when you do Ill be right here
MIB: always nice talking to you jacob
JACOB: nice talking to you too.
CONVERSATION BEFORE JACOB IS KILLED
jacob comments on the rug he made he says “takes a really long time when your making the thread guess thats the point
mib says you have no idea what ive gone through to be here.
ben asks have you met before
mib says in a matter of speaking.
jacob tells ben you have a choice you can leave and let us discuss our issues
ben long conversation then asks what about me
jacob coldly says what about you
ok to the theory since we have the actual conversation now
PLEASE READ THE WHOLE THING IN ORDER TO SEE KEY POINTS
What if Jacob and the MIB his name not of real importance the biblical reference is only used to set a time reference of their age what if they are in an endless struggle or battle of time. key references to the concept the conversation on the beach about the ship brought by Jacob when MIB says still trying to prove me wrong and Jacob says you are wrong.
mib following that with it always ends the same and jacob saying it only ends once before that progress.
What if they situation is that Jacob has been trying to prove the MIB wrong since biblical times and they are stuck in an endless loop. Everything keeps happening over and over again. Explains why MIB would want to kill him. But then he finds the loophole and kills him and then says their coming meaning the ones in the past that can cause the loop to start all over again. Or something along those lines. The battle is between Jacob and MIB and the struggle has to do with the endless time loop the two of them are stuck in while Jacob trys to prove him wrong the consequences of mib be proven wrong?? Not sure but obviously it’s worth it to him not to be. A few key notes here the final conversation between ben mib and jacob jacob says he made the rug by hand and that it takes along TIME to make the threads by hand. then “GUESS THATS THE POINT”
TIME being the emphasis.
If the two of them are struggling through a time loop perhaps Jacob is the one thats causing it not the MIB perhaps he wants it to end.
Now Jacob gave Ben a choice leave and let us talk about our issues or as ben did kill him. And as
if he already knew the outcome like he’d lived it before perhaps he stood there and let ben ramble then ask the question “What about me?” and with a cold sad tone said ” What about you?” Perhaps Ben was one of the key people that could have proven Jacob right and once again through the loop he chose to kill Jacob instead of leaving. There seems to be rules set MIB can’t kill Jacob just like Ben couldn’t kill Witmore. Perhaps there is a connection after all something to do with the fact time travel effects there paths and killing one another would substantally alter the course. Was Ben and Witmore really Ben and Witmore in the hotel room? or perhaps Jacob and MIB instead. Was Ben the one having Sayid kill all of Witmores people or was that the MIB? perhaps theres something more to it. Either way could you see the ending. Everything plays out like it always had and what was said was What happened happened so the ending of our long drawn out story might be Jack waking up in a forested area making his way to a beach and seeing the greatest camera shot of the whole show all over again. The plane crash on the beach. DEJAVU
and the story starts all over again. A never ending story of such until maybe Jacobs “Progress” Shows him how to prove the MIB wrong in the meantime who the MIB is really doesn’t matter. The statue and the name Jacob more than likely just refers us to a time line. The never ending time line.