Comments on: to be ‘claimed’ by the island http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/ A place to write and read Lost Theories Thu, 17 May 2012 19:43:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: dabiatchishere http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25824 dabiatchishere Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:47:58 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25824 Joshcgs, I'd like to thank you for the thoughts you presented in your theory. You have really got my mind working overtime on some of the points, you have brought up here. I felt that I had reached some sort of conclusion until I read your theory. Your theory made me realize, that I had reached the 'wrong' conclusion and sent me back to the drawing boards. Thanks for making me think! Joshcgs, I’d like to thank you for the thoughts you presented in your theory.

You have really got my mind working overtime on some of the points, you have brought up here.

I felt that I had reached some sort of conclusion until I read your theory. Your theory made me realize, that I had reached the ‘wrong’ conclusion and sent me back to the drawing boards.

Thanks for making me think!

]]> By: mojo http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25790 mojo Fri, 12 Feb 2010 03:29:45 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25790 So just a question along these lines. If MIB couldn't kill Jacob, then there are laws higher than both of them. I attribute this to the power of the island itself. I think the island represents a yin and yang sort of balance between the good and the evil, the dark and the light, etc. That metaphor is seen through out the show again and again, in simple and complicated forms (Rose and Bernard being a mixed couple, Lock and Walt playing chess with the light and dark pieces, evil vs. good forces, science vs. faith, etc.) There are always two ends of the spectrum fighting against each other, or in harmony with each other. So MIB and Jacob play right into this role. I think it is easy to assume that Jacob represents the stronger will of the island, but I think really Jacob's goal is to prove that a - either there is good in everyone to be developed or b - you can change fate through influencing people's choices while letting them make their choices. So what is MIB's goal? To prove that change isn't possible or that the bad in everyone overcomes. What is the island's goal? I believe it is a balance between the two. The claiming of the dead (or undead?) is maybe a version of that balance. BTW - LOVE LOVE Kim's idea about Jack having something to do with Sayid. After all, his role as leader (tattoo translation included here) and the question of his heritage is still an chapter to be addressed ... and he has already changed a lot. He has a lot more faith than our man of science. I think he very well could be Jacob's replacement and maybe was given power after Jacob's death somehow. So just a question along these lines. If MIB couldn’t kill Jacob, then there are laws higher than both of them. I attribute this to the power of the island itself. I think the island represents a yin and yang sort of balance between the good and the evil, the dark and the light, etc. That metaphor is seen through out the show again and again, in simple and complicated forms (Rose and Bernard being a mixed couple, Lock and Walt playing chess with the light and dark pieces, evil vs. good forces, science vs. faith, etc.) There are always two ends of the spectrum fighting against each other, or in harmony with each other. So MIB and Jacob play right into this role. I think it is easy to assume that Jacob represents the stronger will of the island, but I think really Jacob’s goal is to prove that a – either there is good in everyone to be developed or b – you can change fate through influencing people’s choices while letting them make their choices. So what is MIB’s goal? To prove that change isn’t possible or that the bad in everyone overcomes. What is the island’s goal? I believe it is a balance between the two. The claiming of the dead (or undead?) is maybe a version of that balance.
BTW – LOVE LOVE Kim’s idea about Jack having something to do with Sayid. After all, his role as leader (tattoo translation included here) and the question of his heritage is still an chapter to be addressed … and he has already changed a lot. He has a lot more faith than our man of science. I think he very well could be Jacob’s replacement and maybe was given power after Jacob’s death somehow.

]]> By: stone http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25764 stone Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:02:04 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25764 Great thoughts Josh. Well written and it makes good sense. Great thoughts Josh. Well written and it makes good sense.

]]> By: Benhamine http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25752 Benhamine Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:08:37 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25752 Josh you're last comment is very interesting. Do you see the allegorical implications from this if it's true? Think of Jacob as God and MIB as Satan. In the Bible we learn that Satan was an angel, the most beautiful of all angels. Satan wanted to be God though and he challenged God. This is why he was sent to Hell. Now Satan is building his army to once again try to take on God. So MIB, like Satan, may have been envious of Jacob's, God's, power and succumbed to the island's dark properties for power, like Satan succumbed to evil. Jacob has imprisoned him, on this island, in the cabin, wherever, and now he's building his army to once again take on Jacob and take over, Claire, Christian, Sayid, etc. You could even compare Jacob to Jesus and MIB to the antichrist. The others all think of Mock Locke as their leader but they are being fooled. "Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?" -MIB Lost writers do love their allegories... -Benhamine P.S. I do like your theory alot :P Josh you’re last comment is very interesting. Do you see the allegorical implications from this if it’s true? Think of Jacob as God and MIB as Satan. In the Bible we learn that Satan was an angel, the most beautiful of all angels. Satan wanted to be God though and he challenged God. This is why he was sent to Hell. Now Satan is building his army to once again try to take on God.

So MIB, like Satan, may have been envious of Jacob’s, God’s, power and succumbed to the island’s dark properties for power, like Satan succumbed to evil. Jacob has imprisoned him, on this island, in the cabin, wherever, and now he’s building his army to once again take on Jacob and take over, Claire, Christian, Sayid, etc.

You could even compare Jacob to Jesus and MIB to the antichrist. The others all think of Mock Locke as their leader but they are being fooled.

“Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?”
-MIB

Lost writers do love their allegories…
-Benhamine

P.S. I do like your theory alot :P

]]> By: ekolocation http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25745 ekolocation Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:01:31 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25745 if it is jacob vs the island then his mission is complete in the alternate reality. the island sunk, and doesn't seem to hold sway over anyone. but perhaps it is jacob v MIB, and they disagree over whether the island is good or evil. i agree with kimberly about the island being a character, and i believe the writers have mentioned it in the past as well. hopefully well get more answers next week. if it is jacob vs the island then his mission is complete in the alternate reality. the island sunk, and doesn’t seem to hold sway over anyone.

but perhaps it is jacob v MIB, and they disagree over whether the island is good or evil. i agree with kimberly about the island being a character, and i believe the writers have mentioned it in the past as well. hopefully well get more answers next week.

]]> By: kimberly http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25742 kimberly Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:43:59 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25742 I like it. I have to actually get some work done now, but I like the Jacob vs. Island thing. That is a kind of writers twist that I like. See? Like like like. And if it doesn't happen, still a great idea. I like it.

I have to actually get some work done now, but I like the Jacob vs. Island thing. That is a kind of writers twist that I like.

See? Like like like.

And if it doesn’t happen, still a great idea.

]]> By: Joshcgs http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25740 Joshcgs Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:38:21 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25740 Well we know that the others have a leader and that the leader answers to Jacob. So to be fair, Jacob is the real leader. Jacob is the true leader of the island! Dogen, like everyone else, was brought to the island. What if Jacob brings people because 'they' have the power to overcome the islands dark force. ____________________________________________ What if we have had it all wrong. The duality is not between Jacob & MIB, but Jacob & The Island. Maybe any evil or dark force that the island poses can be countered by the prescence of Jacob. Jacob did refer to MIB as an 'old friend' which makes me think that at one point they did work together. I am starting to think that MIB has succumb to this dark force willingly to overthrow Jacob, and that is how he is able to manipulate the islands power. This claim over him, maybe why he is unable to leave the island and go 'home' Well we know that the others have a leader and that the leader answers to Jacob. So to be fair, Jacob is the real leader.

Jacob is the true leader of the island!

Dogen, like everyone else, was brought to the island. What if Jacob brings people because ‘they’ have the power to overcome the islands dark force.
____________________________________________

What if we have had it all wrong. The duality is not between Jacob & MIB, but Jacob & The Island.

Maybe any evil or dark force that the island poses can be countered by the prescence of Jacob.

Jacob did refer to MIB as an ‘old friend’ which makes me think that at one point they did work together.

I am starting to think that MIB has succumb to this dark force willingly to overthrow Jacob, and that is how he is able to manipulate the islands power.

This claim over him, maybe why he is unable to leave the island and go ‘home’

]]> By: kimberly http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25737 kimberly Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:29:22 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25737 Josh, I agree with how you have differentiated the visions from what we know about being claimed. Obviously Christian looms as a big question mark still as to how he has been used. Your thoughts on the island having its own power is much like thoughts I've had from seasons past of the island being a character on its own. I like it. I can see how it takes the "sides" of black & white, Jacob vs. MIB to a totally new level. The idea that the island does the "claiming" makes it interesting because then we have to say that the Others are in opposition to the island since Dogen was trying to give Sayid poison... and so how does that fit what we have seen so far? Josh, I agree with how you have differentiated the visions from what we know about being claimed. Obviously Christian looms as a big question mark still as to how he has been used.

Your thoughts on the island having its own power is much like thoughts I’ve had from seasons past of the island being a character on its own. I like it. I can see how it takes the “sides” of black & white, Jacob vs. MIB to a totally new level. The idea that the island does the “claiming” makes it interesting because then we have to say that the Others are in opposition to the island since Dogen was trying to give Sayid poison… and so how does that fit what we have seen so far?

]]> By: Joshcgs http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25735 Joshcgs Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:15:28 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25735 Hey Kim, Don't you think we have seen a significnt difference between the smoke monster apparitions and the infected people. ____________________________________________ The smoke monster apparitions appear like a hallucination, they come and go, appear and disappear (alex, yemi, walt, bens mother, etc). You can't shoot and kill one of these things, it is almost as if it is in your mind. But the infected people (Claire, Science Team, Sayid) all seem to be up and about, alive and well, just not themselves. These people are able to carry guns, interact with other people, even be killed! ____________________________________________ As for Christian, I am starting to think there are two as well (some one here mentioned it), an infected/claimed one and an apparition. This would explain why he is seen in so many different places, sometimes interacting, sometimes not, and why he is dressed differently in difference scense. ____________________________________________ Not sure if Jacob or MIB cause the dreams that Locke have, I am starting to think that 'the island' itself has its own power, and that is what has claimed people. MIB has been claimed, probably willingly! This is why he wants to leave so bad! Hey Kim,

Don’t you think we have seen a significnt difference between the smoke monster apparitions and the infected people.

____________________________________________

The smoke monster apparitions appear like a hallucination, they come and go, appear and disappear (alex, yemi, walt, bens mother, etc). You can’t shoot and kill one of these things, it is almost as if it is in your mind.

But the infected people (Claire, Science Team, Sayid) all seem to be up and about, alive and well, just not themselves. These people are able to carry guns, interact with other people, even be killed!

____________________________________________

As for Christian, I am starting to think there are two as well (some one here mentioned it), an infected/claimed one and an apparition. This would explain why he is seen in so many different places, sometimes interacting, sometimes not, and why he is dressed differently in difference scense.

____________________________________________

Not sure if Jacob or MIB cause the dreams that Locke have, I am starting to think that ‘the island’ itself has its own power, and that is what has claimed people.

MIB has been claimed, probably willingly! This is why he wants to leave so bad!

]]> By: kimberly http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/02/to-be-claimed-by-the-island/#comment-25733 kimberly Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:01:46 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=9349#comment-25733 Josh, even though there are parts of this I disagree with, I like your thoughts... Eko's point about the open Dharma graves immediately reminded me of the vision of Horace when he directed Locke to find the cabin. Last week I was trying to think of all the visions that would be attributed to Smokey and Horace was one of them. I don't necessarily believe that this means that we can now say that all of the DI was claimed, but it could be the extra bit of evidence to confirm it was Smokey that created that vision for directing Locke. One thing that I haven't seen brought up yet regarding Sayid is this: is there any possibility that Jack had anything to do with him coming back to life? For once Jack ISN'T taking credit for fixing something and he's finally owning up to his flaws. I know that so much points to Sayid's 'healing' relating to MIB (or Jacob) but is it just worth thinking for a moment that Jack might have something to do with bringing him back to life? I mean, what if...? What if Jack now has "the touch" that is somewhat like Jacob's, somewhat indicative that the healer he always thought he was is finally the kind of healer he is supposed to be? Josh, even though there are parts of this I disagree with, I like your thoughts…

Eko’s point about the open Dharma graves immediately reminded me of the vision of Horace when he directed Locke to find the cabin. Last week I was trying to think of all the visions that would be attributed to Smokey and Horace was one of them. I don’t necessarily believe that this means that we can now say that all of the DI was claimed, but it could be the extra bit of evidence to confirm it was Smokey that created that vision for directing Locke.

One thing that I haven’t seen brought up yet regarding Sayid is this: is there any possibility that Jack had anything to do with him coming back to life? For once Jack ISN’T taking credit for fixing something and he’s finally owning up to his flaws. I know that so much points to Sayid’s ‘healing’ relating to MIB (or Jacob) but is it just worth thinking for a moment that Jack might have something to do with bringing him back to life?

I mean, what if…? What if Jack now has “the touch” that is somewhat like Jacob’s, somewhat indicative that the healer he always thought he was is finally the kind of healer he is supposed to be?

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