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“Lost Libs”…Jacob or MIB(E.I.)…

There is a lot of talk right now about who is the good and who is evil. My instinct tells me to stay with Jacob…My logic breaking down wordplay such as “I am very disappointed in all of you” or “I feel sorry for you”, tells me to believe MIB is the one who is in the dark, but has better reasoning for his tasks. And my heart tells me to not stop believing in John Locke as being the savior I always had faith he would be…
But I have thought of a sort of off the wall idea…even for me…

The thought goes back to “Canton Rainier” sign on the van, and John Locke’s drawing of the monster as a child.

It is the simple, yet complex idea of reincarnation.

I believe that reincarnation is the key to unlocking Lost. There is heavy focus on Dharma and other religions and mythologies that believe heavily in reincarnation.
I believe that in the world Lost exists in, there is a government of faith in a dictatored, scientific state. I strongly believe that Lost will play on the idea of science being superior until the end, then spirituality rising up and taking over for the finish line.

Through science or spirituality, the people of Lost have been given an opportunity to have a second chance, one way or the other…and I believe that one of the main themes of Lost is learning from mistakes.
Taking this to a grander scale, I also believe there is a reincarnation type of act occurring when the Losties flash from one conscious to another, as we have seen Desmond Hume do several times now. When these people flash/jump to other realities/timeperiods/memories/dreams, there is a purpose for it in the long run. But that purpose was created through the use of time travel like elements in part by the scientific Dharma Initiative, based on the spiritual idea of reincaration. No, even I dont understand how it works fully.
The reason I believe that it is more based off of the idea of reincarnation than ‘simple’ time travel is due in part to Mr. Hume’s words…”See you in another life”. I believe that it is an early clue, that what we are witnessing are not simply flashes through time…but flashes to other lives…other “incarnates” of ones self…some good incarnates, some “evil”…starting to understand?

I would like to play a game of “Lost Libs” with anyone who wishes to participate in my theory…For once I have found the story easily…but am having trouble placing the names at this point…and am asking for help…so…fill in the blanks to my theory…

Either “Jacob” or “MIB”…

Although I believe that we saw _____ and _____ sitting on the beach together looking at Black Rock…I believe ______ was also somehow on the ship or heavily related to the owner, most likely due to the time travel properties of the island, and the thought that this has all happened before.

From our understanding, Magnus Hanso possibly owned and operated Black Rock on its fateful journey. It is also my understanding from the show, Lostpedia, and the map…that Black Rock may be the final resting place of Magnus Hanso. I believe it was the last place he was “once a man” or regular person as we all are. Also, Black Rock was a slave ship from everything we know…and most likely from a place where free will does not exist.

I think that Magnus Hanso was running the ship, and was bringing the slaves to the island for _____, after a previous visit off island possibly. The slaves conscious/souls are trapped on the island…and act as infection in a way to “incarnate” themselves back into existence, in the name of either war or peace.

Magnus Hanso was inspired by a divine act of faith, to bring along the chosen ones to help with a task…they all had work to do. _____tried to stop it from occurring, and ______ spins the frozen donkey wheel, moving the island and allowing the ship to be smack in the middle, where we can find it today.

_____ was once a man, and had everything taken away by _____ in the same manner we are seeing the Losties have the very same thing happen to them.

_____is trying desperately to achieve his goal, through any means necessary, lying, hiding, manipulating…while _____ gives a person a choice, or free will to do what he wants…even though the end result is inevitable regardless. He, unlike _____, knows that one way or another things will fall into place…and just wants the Losties to have the opportunity choose their side, before it is forced by the hand of fate.

Think back to early in the show. Many people had things that were going to run out, and although it was inevitable that they would run dry of something they feel they needed, many people made the choice to end it on their terms.
Sawyer and his cigarettes, Charlie and his heroin, Shannon and her recently reminded of asthma inhaler…these things were all part of the story, and all part of building the character of each individual. Some people ran to food drops when they ran out of food, and some hunted and gardened their way through the transition into island life.

This all plays back into fate and free will. No matter how insignificant or important, it all plays back to the entire show…everything happens for a reason right?

I feel in the long run, that either _____ or ______ are trying to free the people, trying to allow for free will to run rampant across the universe…but at what cost to the universe or even the individuals.
We know _____ is willing and has killed in the name of what he believes in. He is willing to sacrifice others to achieve his goal. And _____, knows that even if the person he is trying to help loses their light…they will find it another way.

In conclusion. I feel that the slaves aboard the Black Rock are very possibly lost souls that are trying to make their way home as well. Both EI/MIB and Jacob have both found a way to cheat death, and I feel that the infection is possibly a way for them to have life again…a way to incarnate themselves through other individuals…who knows, maybe the Losties ARE the passengers of Black Rock, trapped through the work of _____, and Lost on the island, carrying the knowledge of the entire islands history since their arrival and entrapment…(think “this isnt supposed to happen”)yeah, thats reallly stretching the idea, but had to throw it out there.

I do feel that one way or another, the souls of the ship are going to be related in some way to what is happening with either the infection, the idea behind free will, or the Losties themselves

And I believe ____ is trying to free them, possibly for his own agenda, and _____ is trying to help them free themselves…the only true freedom that will give any of them the redemption they really need. We have already seen _____ willingly sacrifice himself in the name of his beliefs, and to me, that is as good as one gets…I wonder if _____ has ever done the same…it does not seem he is willing to now, and although he may have his reasons, possibly tricked into it before, it doesnt make what he is doing right.

Oh, and in case you would like a direct answer into who I believe is good and who is evil…its simple…

____ is by far evil, and ____ is easily on the side of good…come on people, pay attention…

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Written by

A.E.S.

Abbot Enheduanna Schwarzschild

25 thoughts on ““Lost Libs”…Jacob or MIB(E.I.)…

  1. A.E.S, firstly a good and interesting read as usual. I also hope that we haven’t seen the last of good Locke and that his soul is fluttering around somewhere ready to do the right thing.

    its quite funny you mention the Smoke Monster drawing and Locke’s wall; only today i was ready through some of my old threads and i’d asked ‘how is it possible that a young Locke who’d never been to the island was able to draw the Smoke Monster’?

    i’ll need to give a bit more thought on the lost souls scenario because it does sound quite good.

  2. Brutha, we can’t forget these recent characters issues to throw into the mix for added measure on the place of reincarnation in the show and good/evil discussion…

    Nadia to Sayid: “You will see me in the next life, if not this one.” (From “Solitary” – S1E9)

    I’ve been thinking on this same topic, obviously. 😉

    Love this idea for a discussion. I think I want to print it out before I say anything else…

  3. Hi AES, there is a lot of information to discuss here. I’ll start off by saying that I too see similar aspects of reincarnation at work with the characters, in addition to similar running themes in the show itself. Desmond’s references to “see you in another life” is good reference also.

    I_Am_Jacob mentions Locke as a child drawing a picture of the ‘smoke monster and seeing Nemesis recently taking on aspects of John Locke’s personality himself, is certainly one indication of a connection between their ‘conscious’ minds.

    One of the biggest clues I think we see is what Dogen says to Jack in one of their early meetings. From Lostpedia: Jack: Are you from here, the island. Dogen: I was brought here like everyone else. Jack: What do you mean, “Brought here.”? Dogen: You know exactly what I mean.

    It was as if Jack’s conscious memories have not connected and surfaced for him yet, as to why he and everyone else is on ‘the island’. This would be consistent with aspects of reincarnation and recalling details. Perhaps, this is one of the purposes of the ‘flash sideways’.

    I believe there is more to learn from the history surrounding The Black Rock, as I believe it is central to the story, as is, Richard and his story.

    As for who I think represents good or evil, that changes weekly, and I am very uncertain if this is something that can be easily defined by myself at this juncture.

    I think you ‘pegged’ the right phrase of ‘lost souls’ aptly, as I feel this strongly applies to the characters.

    Nice theory.

  4. Nice theory A.E.S.

    I read a really strange theory lately about who MIB really is. The theory, can’t remember where I read it, proposed that Jacob and MIB are one in the same person – a division of ying and yang of sorts.

    Reincarnation has to be a theme in this show, but this will be represented by some sort of scientific loop with wormholes and alternate universes.

    With all the happenings this season, theories are starting to sway away from the statue, Egyptian mythology into other realms. I’m still hanging onto some kind of biblical/Egyptian connection. All these deals offered by MIB absolutely reminds me of the devil and Jesus’s encounter in the desert where Satan offers Jesus anything he wants in return for giving up his sacrifice. Remind of you LOST?

  5. AES, very nice as usual. Perhaps their souls are continuing to live their lives over and over in a similar manner as found in the book “The Fall of Chronopolis.” I’m going to take some time to read over this again in order to better comment. I see some parallels to Battlestar Galactica in this also.

  6. Nice fresh read AES. I also think reincarnation will be revealed as a major ‘theme’ of Lost.

    In addition to the examples of Desmond’s “see you in another life” etc., we’ve also seen a lot of animals on the show which seem to be some sort of reincarnation of persons from the past.

    I think there’s a possibility that these animals’, like Sawyer’s boar issue, are in fact literally reincarnations. I think even the Hurleybird is someone we know in the form of the bird. Writers have said the Hurleybird will be explained sooner or later, and it would fit pretty nice into the reincarnation theme.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Vincent is also a reincarnation of someone we know….

  7. I am Jacob, the real Locke may not be as far away from the island as many think right now…dont tell him what he cant do…
    Ive always seen that drawing as more important than any test Richard could have administered…the big question is…why didnt it set off more of an alarm to him upon seeing it? Is a test relly necessary?

    I have had my thoughts about whether Richard was on that ship as a slave or a crew member…the thought that Richard gives Locke the compass to give to him in the past, only to have Flocke instruct him to give it to John again…Locke will find his way “home”…and it seems that this compass should mean something to Richard indicating him a crew member…but the thought that we have not seen him directly relate this to Black Rock and MIBs statement about “Richard out of those chains” makes me rethink him to being a slave…and possibly the only survivor of Black Rock that is the closest to still being human.
    If MIB was the one who was controlling them, then maybe that is why Richard seems to fear him so much. Of course, if it is the other way, and MIB is trying to help them, then it could explain why “he always wanted Richard to come with him, home…”…

    Im seeing a strong relationship…I just cant make out the details…

  8. Dabsi…great job interpreting those lines between Jack and Dogen, the fallen samurai…

    As if Dogen actually thinks Jack does, “know what he means”…Jacobs words about Jack staring out into the ocean most likely mean that he knows Jack isnt connected yet either…that he has some realizations to find in his own self image…he is Lost…and trying to find his way…

    I agree fully on the Black Rock and Richard…small scenes from the end of season 5, such as Rich building the ship, or the ship on the horizon when Jacob and MIB are on the beach brought me to looking more into Black Rock…I figured if I was going to tackle reincarnation, I might as well go back to the earliest known people on the island other than ____ and _____…and the season 5 finale, and Jacob brought them to me…

  9. username…I read a bunch of those theories right after the finale of season 5 aired…they made some sense, and the further we go…the more “balance” seems to lead that way…My problem comes with the simplicity in which it is drawn, even if the path is hard to follow…I like the idea…I like the idea of “you being your own worst enemy” more…I think it is very “Lost”…

    If that turns true, it could turn into a game of “Is Aaron Jacob” down the road…which leads to is Aaron Jacob, MIB, the little blonde (blood on his hands) boy…or anyone else…

    I like the idea, I just hope they do it right, other wise it could turn out very cheesy…

    I agree with you on staying with the Egyptian themes…they are there for a reason, and I love your Jesus and the devil comparison…and although I do not in any way believe that ____ or ____ are directly meant to represent them(maybe), there are obvious parallels to both characters in their personalities and actions…nice thoughts.

  10. Bobt…I know we normally agree on a lot, but you seriously have no idea what your talking about on this…____ all the way…

    Achalli, I know of a few similarities with Battlestar, but would love to hear something more with the “Fall of Chronopolis”…from what you have told me, some of my other thoughts were similar to the idea of “time” there, and would love to hear more on the way it works in terms of reincarnation. I know you went into it before, but any new ideas would be great…I have a few other ideas for this myself, but am still missing something…good thoughts…

  11. STONE! Great thought with the animals, lol, one of my other thoughts I just told Achalli about involved this, lol, but I have no way to connect them…but I know of one person that would love to hear a good “Huley Bird” theory…

    Im glad you say Vincent in the end…thats where I was headed…
    The most important animal scene in the show involves Vincent, and oddly enough Christian Shepard…and technically, its not in the show. But is stated as Canon.

    When Christian sends Vincent to “wake up Jack” because “he has work to do”…that alone is imoportant to me. I cant place it directly, but you bringing up animals is a great call!

    I brought up the Cat from Sayids past in another post looking for a connection to the meshing of realities in the conscious mind…maybe there is more to it…hmmm…

  12. Hi AES, I truly believe that the conversation between Dogen and Jack is significant, with respects to ‘why’ they are on ‘the island’ in the first place. I feel that this information is locked away in the ‘conscious’ minds.

    One point about reincarnation has to do with the ability to recall ‘past’ events. Perhaps they are in the process of doing that. Another aspect is, repeating lessons that happened in prior incarnations, which are usually lessons that were incomplete or not learned, accompanied by very traumatic events and circumstances.

    Sawyer illustrated this best with his angry words to Kate in the Temple about Sayid. He makes a wry remark about how deserving Sayid is of another ‘go-around’.

    PS: I’m still not sold on Jacob being totally ‘good’.

  13. hey A.E.S I have begun to think recently after Dogan told his story to Sayid that perhaps he may not be the only person indebted to Jacob on the island.Perhaps by “nice to see you out of those chains”, the MIB was refering to a deal similar to the one Dogan had with Jacob and was broken now that Jacob is dead,so his chains have be broken as well.Just seems odd that we have a person in a leadership role bound by a agreement to bring back a loved one and not by free will as we have been led to believe.Perhaps Richard found himself in need of a miracle and thats what has him on the island too.

  14. AES, I’ll provide the reincarnation info from “The Fall of Chronopolis” in a separate post. There’s enough information to warrant a separate post. Watch for it soon.

    As for BG, I was thinking along the lines of what happens to Starbuck. She reincarnated and came back to help guide the Colonial Fleet and renegade Cylons to Earth and learn the truth about the 13th colony and the Final Five Cylinder. Perhaps on of the characters in Lost will fulfill a similar role.

  15. Dabsi…on the note of Jacob not being totally good, we have to think about the angle that is being played right now…

    Jacob ‘saves’ Dogens son, never allowing him to see him again for his services, and MIB offers what someone wants most in the world for their services…

    Jacobs offer seems cruel and unfair, yet worthy in my mind as ‘sacrifice’…more along the lines of how good of religion of the world today works…having faith that you will be ‘treated’ the same way you treat others…I guess a sort of Karma.

    MIBs offer seems too good to be true. Do what I say and Ill give you anything you want in the world…I would be wary of this kind of offer.

    What I think will happen is we will learn MIB was brought to the island as the first candidate, possibly being the only one who stood against Jacob…the only one that maybe declined his offer…

    Great thoughts…I am wary of Jacobs intentions, and feel that in the end, he will be better, maybe simply by playing by the rules…but no, that doesnt mean he is good at all…

  16. Great thoughts foreverpuzzled…I do believe Richard is for better or worse being forced in a way to keep playing the game. I feel that he knows more than anyone else about those two, and obviously feels that MIB is the more dangerous of the two…he fears Jacob…maybe he is having ‘connection’ problems…I mentioned before that MIB resembles Richard in appearance at least slightly…I know there is some connection…MIB wanted Richard to go with him…he seems to know Alpert is not somewhere that he necessarily chooses to be…not without a little influence at least…

  17. I am not completely clear on what you mean by souls for our Losties. Do you mean to say you believe they are already dead?

    On science and spirituality. There has been a program in existence for about 70 years now that science cannot explain but has helped alot of people. I’m talking about the Twelve Steps. Originally developed for alcoholics but adapted for alot of other uses, too. Doctors and psychiatrists continually try to come up with better science (medicine, treatment) to “cure” addictions but none seem to work better than a simple spiritual program.

  18. …define “dead” on Lost…then that will be easier to answer more directly…but sort of.

    Throwing in the crazy angle that the Losties themselves are the former blackrock crew…physically, yes…but that is not exactly the main idea.

    Im honestly not sure how to explain it, because I honestly dont know yet.

    What I do know, is that MIB is in some way connected to the infection, even if he is not in any way the cause, he at least knows how to use it to his advantage.
    Also, MIB is connected to Richard Alpert…who is connected to the Black Rock in my opinion, his little ship in a bottle points me in that direction.

    We saw in the finale of last year MIB state that Jacob brought the ship to the island…something he did not deny, adding another connection to the Black Rock…

    So at this point, we have two main character who we recently met being connected to the ship…The possible oldest man in the world/island being connected…so I am trying to figure out how the ship means squat to the Losties.

    I am a firm believer in reincarnation on Lost, and the more that is revealed, the more I think the conscious/ soul of others are trying to creep through the physical bodies of the Losties…I do have a backup theory for the infection…but I would like to see this play out more, so Ill save that for the fun section.

    Its funny Roland how a ‘spiritual’ program can influence the mind of someone who has never been spiritual until fighting a losing battle…do the spirits enter our lives, are they always there…or do we make them up for our own desires…our own clean slate…?

    Btw…are you implying that I drink or should stop drinking while I write theories…
    ;]
    because although it seems like I do…I dont…usually…and I assure, the only twelve steps Im taking is to the fridge…

    Great question Roland…its really hard to answer because I dont know the specifics of my own theory…I dont doubt it goes back even further than Black Rock…but thats all we know at this point…

    I joke about the spirituality you present, but I do agree with it. I know “second” hand that medical “cures” dont help with addiction…someone close to me spent about a year trying to quit smoking with “nicotine gum”…a novel idea, fight the craving of nicotine…with nicotine…genius…they spent the next 10 years of their life smoking cigarettes again trying to kick the gum…All the technology and medicine in the world, and thats the best we got…the world is a crazy place.

  19. I guess drinking is ok while writing theories but some of the people on here who admit to smoking something other than cigarettes may want to reconsider while hypothesizing!

    One of the things that draws me to Lost as I see them on a spiritual journey with scifi thrown in. We’ve seen the journey thru flashbacks of how most of the major characters got to where they were in life before they came to the Island. Things that have happened on and off Island that changed them. I still have no idea where the journey is going to end for them.
    Thinking of our Losties as already dead just makes me feel cheated. But, thinking of them as reincarnated souls somehow makes it a little better. It was also fit in with some of the themes of the show.
    I can’t speak for other people who have fought a losing battle but for me when I just stopped fighting and surrendered is when I won. That may happen for Jack, too.
    It’s very hard to explain how that works except to other people who have been thru similar experiences. All the 815 survivors have been thru similar experiences together.

  20. lol…
    I get what you mean by cheated…cant deny that.
    Im really hoping to get more information on Claire soon. She seems to be the first one we know that was infected, although there are…other ‘others’ again…

    There is a scene in season one, “Homecoming” to be specific where Claire returns to camp after being taken by Ethan and released by Danielle…then when she returned she had no memory from the crash at all…her last memory was being on the plane…”before” it crashed…Please dont tell me anyone believes Ethan Rom is actually good(speed) off of the island…he is a terrible person, converted to an other by way we have not been seen. He is willing to kill, to fight, and to lie to get what he wants…I dont trust him a bit…I have to consider the possibility of a possible flash by Claire at some point during her kidnapping…time will tell…

    Im glad you find a relation with the show and the thought…its hard to grasp, especially considering I dont have all the blanks filled in, and I dont just mean on MIB and Jacob.

    There is more to it, I understand that. I know it goes beyond, into flashing through time and jumping from “timeperiod/conscious”…but I think that is how the idea of reincarnation becomes manipulated, and things are done outside of the “rules”.

    At the end there you speak of them going through experiences together…thats another necessary plot point in my eyes…one way or another, they are supposed to be together…

    Great thoughts again Roland…

  21. I’m thinking that the show may be going 2/ the premise that everyone has multiple lives, and stories playing out at once. In the respect to time/reincarnation…. everything is always happening at the same time…

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