It’s either a curveball, or weak-ass writing.
Beware, I’m still talking about how crazy and untrustworthy Jacob is since I’m apparently not getting the point across very well in a previous post. You’ve been warned.
I guess pretty much everyone’s just fine with trusting Jacob. That’s fine, I’ll roll with it for a second……..
Just in case we can actually believe what the writers are showing us all the damn sudden (give me a break)….Jacob is the protector of the world. Jacob is literally protecting the ENTIRE planet from this MIB, a character that Jacob very possibly made that way in the first place, correct?
“It’s okay Ben, really. If you want to kill me, the protector of HUMANITY, go right ahead. I’m just very happy you’ve made a choice. Choices are just THAT awesome.”……That is essentially how we should invision Jacob’s death scene from here on out if you believe what we’re being shown….and that’s precisely why I’m raising the bullshit flag.
Maybe Jacob needed to die in order for his wishes to truly become reality. Maybe he really just wants someone else to take over his career as Planet Security Chief Officer. Whatever the case is, I was happy just the way things were with Jacob protecting us all. His death could have been prevented and it would have saved us all from having to watch a few rather boring episodes in the process.
Like you, I also believe jacob still has a plan. We’ve been shown that he does. But why has this man spent decades trying to find “replacements” when he simply could have said “Get out of my foot!” and in the process, save his own life and, ya know, the planet?
I know, I know….. I’ve driven this into the ground by now, I just can’t get over it. I guess I should get to my point. One of two things are going on here……
First scenario: What we are seeing is exactly how it plays out. Jacob is keeping the MIB on the island to prevent evil from spreading. He has spent decades getting a replacement for a death he knew was going to happen, yet couldn’t know because Ben could still make a choice to not kill him. Jacob literally allows Ben to murder him which causes the world’s safety to hang in the balance of a few Lostie’s choices, which in my eyes, is simply ridiculous. Plain and simple, it’s stupid. Disagree all you want, it’s a ridiculous road that is paved before us. This show used to be unbelievable, yet believable at the same time, and it was amazing because of it. But anymore, I’m laughing at what we’re expected to be invested in.
Scenario 2: (A MUCH better one mind you) The writers still have something big up their sleeves, and Jacob has a very uncool motive. I’m not even going to try to guess what he may be up to, but I’d be very happy with this show again if we find out Jacob’s not a good guy.
Go ahead and say it, “Get over it Chief! Your posts are mildly depressing and you need to stop writing this horseshit.” I’ll just tell you to stop reading it. But I appreciate you reading it at the same time.
Well, I think you are right to question this.
Jacob lets Ben and Locke “waltz in like Moses” to his shoe and just kill him.
But when Ricardus comes, Jacob absolutely beats the crap out of him with a few judo and taekwondo moves. So when he does not want to die he really can put up a good fight.
So I believe (if it is not what you argue above) then the other option is that he actually wanted to be killed, and needed to be killed to fulfill a time loop of his own.
lol cheif your posts are always so amusing! i feel like ive been beating a dear horse too commenting on every single relevant theory that we cant be so sure that jacob is this super amazing good guy, jacob is kind of an asshole. but most people are just happy to take things at surface value i guess, if they are told jacob is good smoky is bad they will believe just that.
i really hope there is a major curveball coming, if the show turns into this huge good vs evil, save the world crap that they are suggesting i will be so mad! because like you said, until recently the show was pretty believable smoke monsters, tropical polar bear and all, but now it is just turning into this weird thing that is really not believable at all.
You’re probably right. There’s got to be a “good” reason for Jacob allowing his own death like that. Can’t wait to see what we’re expected to believe.
ObsessedWLost – Thanks for understanding. I’m with ya on hoping this isn’t some story about good vs evil. I get all the underlying metaphors and ironies, but it’s not interesting to me anymore. I guess I’m wanting more substance these days, more plots that really make you think. I just want another twist dammit.
Totally agree with everything above. 🙂
From Richard’s encounter with Jacob, I guess it is clear that:
1) Jacob can control who gets into the statue.
2) Jacob is very capable of defending himself against an ordinary guy with a knife.
From this we can gather that Jacob more or less invited Ben and Flocke and let them kill him.
Although I’m the type of watcher that forgives every crappy thing about Lost because I’m such a freaking Lost-fanboy…I unfortunately have to admit you’re pretty right.
If it would be the case, the story would be leaky as hell and it would indeed be weak ass writing.
But, I’m sure the last 8 episodes of Lost won’t be just about our Losties blindly following Jacob’s or Flocke’s orders. Well, let’s hope so…
But what on earth could that something big up their sleeves be..?
Well stone…
There’s a few possibilities.
We might find that Jacob has actually been controlling MIB all along. Maybe Jacob has been the one killing people. When we find out the REAL reason Jacob wanted to die, we might see that Jacob’s up to no good.
We still need to find out how Jacob and Christian are related. They have to know each other. There’s a lot that could happen that would save this season from being mediocre entertainment, but like you, I want to see something happen.
Aye, but that first possibility would be pretty weak ass writing too…I don’t believe they would throw in that kind of twists, cause there’s not one single ‘clue’ that could point towards Jacob being the actual crook.
It would be nice if Christian would pop up and guide the Losties (and in particular Jack) to their real purpose.. and that Jacob and Flocke both would be revealed as some manipulating idiots..
Interesting Chief, call me a glutton for punishment, but I still have faith in Jacob. The way you described Jacob and the way he allows himself to die automatically evoked images of a Christ-like figure in my head. Many people aren’t going to understand Jacob’s actions just as many didn’t understand Christ’s actions in allowing himself to be crucified. I think we are still going to have to see how this all plays out before we can make any judgements on either Jacob or the MIB.
Brokenankh –
Well said. I never considered comparing Jacob to Jesus. There’s a difference though. Jesus had things to say. He couldn’t wait to get people to hear what he had to say. Jacob doesn’t answer questions very well, and he seems to like the fact that nobody knows a damn thing about him.
It’s tough to have faith in somebody that doesn’t give people the time of day.
I’m having a hard ti
Problem could also be that we’re viewing season 6 as a season on it’s own. If you look at all the seasons, for example Jack’s change of attitude regarding his purpose…they did a pretty good job on that. So you can’t just view him now as as blind follower of Jacob…but as someone who finally found his purpose on the island and accepts his destiny.
It’s not the destination that’s the most important, it’s the road that leads to it.. Just like AES said, they needed the pain etc. to come to their grips…
…time trusting Jacob.
I really like how you said it.
–“It’s okay Ben, really. If you want to kill me, the protector of HUMANITY, go right ahead. I’m just very happy you’ve made a choice. Choices are just THAT awesome.”–
Never thought of it that way. Either Jacob isn’t what he claims to be, or he’s just plain nuts.
Chief, agreed – It’s hard for me to also completely trust Jacob.. mostly because we haven’t really seen much of his character. We know he is weaving a tapestry of these people’s lives ultimately for the good of the island and the good of humanity. People have died in the process.. but at the same time – that’s the way life goes. Our characters need these struggles in order to have their personalities defined.
I don’t think Jacob is responsible for the evil / death that happens on or off the island. Smokey has killed an awful lot of people on the island (or has at least convinced many people to do his bidding). I also believe Smokey has agents off island that were attempting to kill off the Oceanic Six. Jacob didn’t kill Nadia – but, for some reason, he couldn’t save her. But, he did need to save Sayid because he was a candidate. (Sayid would have been killed by that car otherwise).
So, Jacob – as he is weaving his white threads around the darker ones – works around the evil/in spite of the evil to develop the personalities of his candidates.
I’ve got nothing to add to your theory I just wanted to comment on how good of a read it was I remember when you first joined this site you had a bit of a bumpy ride with your straight to the point comments and theorys but I must admit it’s a refreshing change for someone to just keep saying it how it is, also I like when I read your theorys it’s like your sat their telling me it instead of feeling like I’m sat here Reading a essay keep up the good work it’s because of you and a few select others I keep on coming back and checking this like
right arse kissing over you can carry on now
LOL, thanks Samson, I’m glad you enjoyed it……and good memory. I was having a tough time for sure at first. A lot of people really make this site enjoyable though. So I just decided to ignore the problems.
in response to #8 – I definitely think that Christian is MIB, I am not so sure how he appeared to Jack when he was off the island in the hospital but when he showed up on the frieghter, I thought that the freighter was in the island’s radius (40-80 miles off the coast)and that’s how he popped in. I think when Claire differinates between the two when she is talking to Jin, my father told me and my friend told me, was because she wasn’t infected (or that infected) to be able to tell the difference, and she must have had some memory loss because she didn’t remember leaving her baby (we didn’t see Aaron when she was in the cabin with Locke and Christian (or did we?)). I thinl the infection is different with everyone. I also think Jacob and MIB have similar if not the same powers after watching Ab Aeterno. I just think that Jacob doesn’t choose to shape shift (or becomes a pillar of smoke, I believe that the smoke form was a punishment or mishap during one of MIB’s escape attempts). I waffle back and forth on this issue, but unlike last time you brought this subject up, I can offer no more foreshadowing clues. I am going to play devil’s advocate here (pun very intended, maybe). I think that it is too straight forward not like Lost writers at all to be so blunt. I was hoping season six would be a non-stop answer machine. But it almost seems like a long con, they read these forums, they see what we are saying drop a few clues and then bam, nope, pysch. In Ab Aeterno they even give us the fans a shout out by calling him the man in black. I think that Jacob can lie but MIB has to tell the truth to some degree (otherwise, why does he keep telling everyone he is the smoke monster). For instance Richard flat out asked Jacob, “Are you THE devil?”
He pauses, gives a creepy little smile during the pause and says simpy, ‘No.’
But that doesn’t mean he isnt A devil/demon/evil being. Maybe the person Jacob answers to is The Devil. I definitel feel like something fishy is going on and I cant wrap my head around it. Maybe MIB has no name because he has no body, he lost that when he lost his humanity. I hope lost doesn’t turn into a morality tale where being ‘Lost’ is not being in the presence of God, because essentially that is quite simply what hell means, the whole free will v. fate thing has always made me hyper aware that the story could turn this way at any given time. Anyway, Chief, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in your sentiments toward Jacob (if you ever get a chance ckeck out last season’s Supernatural, Mark Pelligrino plays a sympathetic devil indeed).
maybe it’s a bit like Harry Potter 6 and 7. Dumbledore knew he was going to die and died. However before he did, he left a few, somewhat meaningless items to Harry, Ron and Hermione. He took a huge risk in expecting the 3 to work out on their own what they needed to do to kill Lord Voldemort. He gave them no guidance really and the gamble paid off.
Maybe Jacob is playing a similar game and he might expect MIB to get complacent now that he is dead.
It would be the true test of humanity to prove they are selfless by not having any help from anybody else to prove this. Maybe this is why Jacob needed to die?
Chiefof16, regarding the writers of Lost…they have managed to write a very complex mystery that for six seasons nobody has been able to unravel, while many have tried and failed.
I’d say that is some of the best writing I have ever seen…..
Chief, great, exactly, you’re not alone in distrusting Jacob. Please let you be right on scenario 2, please!!! and I think the curve ball is coming, I just hope soonish.
Chiefof16 I am with you Jacob??? I dont know It be a really B@#$ if he is just manipulating everything for his own good AND my question is how just how he took MIB body or humanity away how can he have that power Argggg this just gives me a headache
by the way goood post
Yeah, i’m with Chief.
(And i prefer MIB over Jacob any day!)
Jacob obviously sacrificed himself when Ben did his limp wrist stab. There’s no way after we saw Jacob whoop richards ass he would let sissy Ben stab him like that. Like Obi Wan Kanobi and Jesus Christ.
Dabs – Don’t get me wrong, this show is awesome. I just watched half the first season yesterday, and it brought back memories of how easily involved I felt with the show. I honestly don’t feel that way anymore. The frustration with not knowing anything anymore is taking it’s toll. We have no idea who’s lying anymore. Then they switch to another mysterious timeline which we still have no clue as to what it’s purpose is. I still have faith that the writers are going to bring the audience up to speed…..still waiting though.
Glaw – I’m not sure I trust anyone right now, including MIB. It appears everyone has their motives and are willing to manipulate people in the process.
Jacob seems to manipulate the lives of others as freely as MIB does. I think the main difference between the two is that one is doing this apparently to escape the island. The other is doing it with an apparent endgame objjective of keeping MIB on the island. Granted Jacob seems to be more about healing and restoring life while MIB seems to be about death, deception, and destruction. I am however growing weary of the feud between the two. IF MIB can in fact be killed, why not just kill him and move on??
rockitman88 – I just recently realized how this show changed it’s entire focus in such an abrupt fashion.
We hear Jacob’s name mentioned just a few times in seasons 1-5, now we’re learning that everything revolves around him (and MIB). It’s like a whole new show now. While I used to care about what happened to each and every lostie, now all that matters is what these two guys are up to. The last handful of episodes are going to be good though. I’m sure they’re up to something.
I agree, Chief. After re-watching the first season I realized just how much the recent episodes lack in terms of emotional depth with the losties and for me, the suspense factor. The creepy little mysteries that hooked me in the first place – a pillar of black smoke in the distance, whispers in the jungle, etc. – these types of suspenseful elements don’t seem to have a place anymore and now like you said, it’s just about these two guys and whatever their goal is. I still love the show, but the bar was set real high in the first couple seasons and this season just doesn’t seem to meet the standard.
Dharmass,
I’m glad you agree, Dharmass.
Chiefof16,
I agree with what you are saying and although I’m more amateur at these boards, I’ve tried to say it before – that man Jacob, he’s up to something and it ain’t good. Your proposed Scenario 2 – that has to be it. Each season has a big bad / a big reveal and as we’re nearing finale (loving it and wanting to know all but also dreading ‘the end’) there are more and more reveals – especially the last episode which filled so many Ricardus-shaped gaps and took him beyond the guyliner, giving him so much more depth so we could finally empathise with him.
On a parallel note, I’ve started reading The Stand, expanded version (prompted by so many of the smart posts on this site) and I’m already hugely addicted and can’t put it down. The one thing I noted in King’s preface is that he writes about story telling and to illustrate his point offers a butchered one paragraph precis of Hansel & Gretel, which tells the story functionally, but as King puts it ‘ain’t, you know, boss’. He goes on to say (about the breadcrumbs) … ‘Neither of these bits are strictly essential to the plot, but in another way they make the plot – they are great and magical bits of storytelling. They change what would have been a dull piece of work into a tale which has charmed and terrified readers for over a hundred years’. I’m about 1/3 of the way through and having read that preface first, am reading it in a different way and am relishing the detail in the characters, but in preparation that not all things will be answered. He also says that ‘people always speak to me about The Stand. They discuss the characters as though they were living people, and ask frequently “what happened to so and so”… as if I got letters from them every now and again.’ – although I’m only just into it I’m prepared for not everything bein answered and some characters will just go off into the world, post-apocalyptic as it is, and my imagination will have to see them off.
I wonder if there is a parallel here – we have been told not everything will be answered but so far it has been incredible story telling with twists, turns, big reveals aplenty. So I’m trying to enjoy the details – similar to the genius of Buffy – you could watch it as a story, teenager kills nasty vampires, she’s pretty tough and boys fancy her – or you could pick up all the cultural references, philosophy and in jokes (well documented in ‘Reading The Vampire Slayer’). There is no way, I just can’t believe that we’re going to limp to the end and Jacob is the good guy who sacrificed himself. Back to my opening paragraph – there’s something up with that guy. He doesn’t answer questions, he’s playing a long game. And ‘dying’ (if he’s able to die in one form or another) is part of it.
Well thats what I reckon anyway. And I enjoy your posts too! Sorry I kind of expanded here and brought The Stand and Buffy into it but I hope you get my drift.
I was disillusioned with Season Six, trying desperately not to be, but I was getting frustrated at not seeing certain characters for a long time. Actually on that note, Miles didn’t say a word in the last ep, he just sat there at the bonfire. Miles should have more lines. But I think we’re in for some surprises… there is no way that writers with such powerful and compelling influences would disappoint themselves let alone their readers.
Dharmass, as you say, the bar was set real high – you know it, they know it, I know it, everyone knows it. They cannot disappoint.
Over and out – sorry if that was long, haven’t been on for a while, it probably shows!