And I myself always thought of the Ship in the beachscene as the Black Rock, and even though time does indeed work in ways on/off Island that we have yet to fully understand – I still have to back up SawyersGirl45.
You see the Statue in a perfect storm, but not during a beautiful day?

And I thought that by the time we saw the beachscene – the rest of the show was written(and thus erasing any chance of inconsistencies)

When it comes to getting to the Island,
we have to remember – that even though we’ve seen planes crash/land(at least three of them) HotAirBalloons, Helicopters, and submarines(damn right, plural) – back in those(presumebly) days – there were only ships, right?
So why does the one in the beachscene have to be the Black Rock..?

Especially as Jacob Tells Richard there have been “Many” before.. how the “Hell” did they get there, if not by ship?(In Lost I’m sure there possibilities – holler at me)

I think we can all agree that even though Richard was the first assassin – the BR was no the first ship, right? Just one in a long line of many. In other words – it could just as well have been another ship.

(Hahahaha, even though it’s awesome to theorize and all that, it’s one of the things we love about Lost – what everyone
seem to miss – is how little it really matters, whether the ship was really the BR or not – what difference would it make? None, whatsoever!(that we know of now anyway);)

Also, one thing that I’ve found important in the beachscene is Nemesis’ response when Jacob offers him dinner/fish: “I just ate” but when Richard is dining he doesn’t join him, which off course could be because he just wasn’t hungry or whatever – however! He then Tells Richard about Losing his body and all that. I would think that an “entity” without body has little or no need for food – which pushes me further to the idea that the “beach-ship” is not the BR.

I’d rather suggest that quite some time passed between, during which – Nemesis Lost his body.

For when Flocke(and yes, I know he hasn’t really stolen Lockes body, we still don’t really know how it works, unlike Jacob, he doesn’t even bleed) is first “resurected” he stands with his feet in the sand at the beach, eating a mango – and more importantly, commenting on how that must be the best mango he’s ever eaten.

By that time we thought it was really Locke, and I believed he enjoyed it so – because he was alive again, finally “back home” on his way to fullfill his Destiny!

In retrospect, I think that was Nemesis enjoying food for the first time in a looong while.

I know that I’m probably all over the place now, but some other things – the Loophole…..what-the-hell-was-it?

Did Nemesis have to “become” Locke/the Leader in order to get to Jacob? No, he didn’t! First of all, Jacob wasn’t hiding anywhere, he’d been(seemingly, even though he keeps jumping through time)chillin in the same place all that time(he even said to Nemesis, he’d be there waiting)

So it wasn’t to gain knowledge of Jacobs whereabouts, agreed..?

Was it because only the leader could kill Jacob..? No, Ben was no longer the leader(in a way, no one was, only the Idea of John Locke) and if that makes Flocke/Nemesis the leader, that still has no bearing as He didn’t kill Jacob himself(he’s unable to, that’s the whole point, right?) which brings me to….Benjamin.

In the end it’s Ben that kills Jacob…
Now, why the Hell is that..?
Why would Nemesis go through all this trouble of becoming “Locke” only to get Ben kill Jacob, when surely there must have been ten-thousand easier ways to get him to do that, right..?

Ben being greedy and selfish(from time to time, by his own admission he feared to lose his power, the only thing he thought mattered to him)he should have made a perfect “candidate” for Nemesis right from the beginning.

Hey Ben, wanna see your mother again/for the “first” time..?

Does anyone think he would ever pass that up? But for some reason he kills(mostly semmengly)bad people and interact more with the “good”

I’m guessing that upon scanning Richard Nemesis could see that he was a good person
truly sorry for a terrible misstake he didn’t mean to make – he is a good person, period!

Now the crew on the other hand, Whitfield at least – were bad(yes, I think killing slaves in chains counts as bad) and yet I bet you that whether Nemesis appeared as a man or Smoke, through tricks or sheer fear he’d get them all go charge Jacob with dynamite…but alas…no.. Nemesis “targets” flawed, but “good” people..

Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

And one more thing about how Jacob and MIB used to be close friends… I agree that your evidence shows they must have once trusted each other and been “friends”, but what could have possibly happened to turn such wise/powerful men from friends to enemies? It can’t be just adisagreement and simple human shortcomings such as stubborness…

Sorry if i sound like a bitch, im just trying to get my point across I swear im a nice person really!

Other than that slight disagreement, im loving the rest of this post.

I do have one question.. What is the POINT of bringing people to the island?! because from what i can tell it just seems to be the purpose of one big game between Jacob and MIB (jacob bringing them to prove people dont always corrupt).. Seriously! bit selfish of him to ruin other peoples lives just to be right! And MIB quite happily killing people to make sure J isnt right? Dew dew.

Oh yes and i do agree that Richard was the first assassin. But i dont think he was the first person MIB tried to manipulate (not that you said that, im just saying).. Would love to know more history on J & M.. ESPECIALLY MIBS NAME! but i really dont think we are gonna get much more than this..

It was a good episode

Once again, good post

Another thing i want to know is, Are we assuming that Richard was given Eternal life with Jacobs touch, or are we missing a scene that still needs to explain why Richard has eternal life.

Richard has no idea what or who the candidates are. That seemed to be between Jacob/MIB, Dogen & Ilana&crew (&crew died pretty fast!)

As for picking a leader for the others, Jacob never wanted to intervene so I am going to assume that the first group under Ricardo’s advisement knew of Jacob and that the island was special but decided to choose their own leader. When Locke stormed into Richard’s camp in ’54 it seemed like he was the leader but I don’t know, Richard said they have a strict way of choosing leadership and it started at a very young age.
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@Odette

Tell that to ekolocation! He doesn’t agree with me that the sky is blue.

I do think that Jacob started picking candidates once he was made aware that MIB would never stop trying to kill him. MIB said that he has been around for a long time (way before Richard even)

Jacob said “if you kill me that someone else will take my place.” Before that he did not seem to thin MIB would kill him, so he realized he needs to start finding a possible replacement.

I dont think the lighthouse work in the traditional sense because instead of a beacon it is a mirror and would not work at night (which is when a lighthouse is needed)

I don’t think there are any limits. Jacob brings people to watch how they will act and certain people to relace him. As for the numbers I have no clue!

I also liked your point about MIB writing down the numbers in the cave that he showed Sawyer. That makes perfect sense! “Got this one on my side… cross them off… so and so got killed by so and so or whatever…. cross them off. Once I cross them all off, I’m outta here, baby!”