Anyway, I wanted to come back to this because of the water thing after this Ab Aeterno episode. I had just told people about the water/life/death thing as part of the struggle between Jacob and MIB when the “baptism” scene with Richard happened. Do you realize what Richard said, “I want to live…” and that is what made Jacob stop?

Okay, but now…read your last comment about a plug and the water…and wow. Fun stuff!

Honestly, I love the association that you present. Its so simple, but overlooked trying to uncover things we simply cannot at this juncture.

As for the plug/Bens releasing the monster…good point there Chief, in another life I painted and mixed paint…the first thing we did every morning was “purge” the machine, meaning to basically pull the plug and open up the nozzle/hose…in this case vents…I know its stupid, but associate it with the “purge” from the show…and I see it as a clue to possibly the monster having final say in the purge of the DI…

This plug was something that actually made me question the island being surrounded by water being what contains MIB…if it is a way of releasing the beast, then what good would ocean do?
To relate the wheel/images to your post, we have also remember how the mirror reflects off of the background of the seemingly infinite ocean…Im really starting to lean towards the water as a type of portal…even if maybe just for seeing the other side…

To go along with your “Lost Libs” fill in the blanks, I was thinking how water and ash images provide an opportunity to do that little psychological exercise of word association… so I say “ash” you say _________; I say “water” you say __________. It takes it all back to perspective, but I think both words eventually lead back to the life and death themes.

The thing I forgot to bring up about Jacob and MIB perhaps representing Life and Death is the statement from Jacob: “It only ends once…” compared to MIB’s “It always ends the same.” Isn’t this yet ANOTHER reinforcement towards reincarnation and the power of life and the power of death if reincarnation is at work in the characters lives? (I say “power of death” because at that point, death isn’t final.)

[And one other little side note about reincarnation relating to possible imagery: the use of circular/wheel images that obviously have some power connected to the island and the Losties lives - the FDW and the Lighthouse compass wheel thing. I know it's a total tangent from my post, but since it's my post I thought I would put it somewhere.]

The more I have thought about Life & Death ‘battling’ each other (as opposed to good & evil) I realized it puts an interesting spin on the issues surrounding island pregnancies. The island was seen as a healer for some yet not for others…could it be more the representation of the forces of Jacob and MIB at work? It’s not that I want everything to relate back to them as deities of sorts, but it’s something to consider.

And about John Locke… I would much rather see a resurrected John Locke than aliens.

No problem talking about the watering hole and possibilities. I had been thinking about that previously (around the time of Sayid’s ‘resurrection’) and that was part of why I thought that Smokey and the water had a connection. There seems to be something missing in the ‘elements’ though since we have water and smoke, but maybe not… thus the idea that the water surrounding the island is so important.

What was different about Smokey during that episode is that it seemed much more mechanical..a weapon used against the enemy. It didn’t discover people and examine them, it was targeted toward people it was told to attack..Which makes me think the water has something to do with that too. Perhaps there is an agreement with Smokester that if you give him fresh temple water, he will come to your assistance..(dumb haha a stretch there..)

Kimberly sorry to detract from your post by talking about mechanics of Smokester, instead of the symbolism..

I really like your relationship of life and death to the water and the ash.

Unless I am correct about Jacobs ash being what is used as protection, which it seems at the time I am not…there are two seperate instances of ash being important to the story…one being what is used to take make ‘circles’ to keep MIB out, and the other is Ilana taking Jacobs ash…

One thing about water, remember, water is necessary for life as we know it…so either the water is a symbol for that, or it is going against the grain and saying to let go of rules that we know…in my opinion of course.

I have to read through this again…but I have also been considering that water, the ultimate and infinite looking glass is nothing more than a portal or barrier for some to “find themselves” and the ash is a barrier for keeping MIB from where he wants to go…
It makes me question the water around the isalnd and the “radius” that Faraday spoke of…Maybe its not that the island is an island that keeps MIB…maybe its that it has more to do with what the ash is, and its relationship to how the fence is used to keep people/the monster out…

Very sorry…I strayed from the original post…but you have me thinking about this ash and water meaning…

Great thoughts all around…Im interested to see the signifigance on the show when it plays out…

Along with what you’re getting at here, you seem to be symbolizing these two important elements rather accurately.

I’m still wondering, to this day, what the importance was of Ben pulling that drain plug to awaken Smokey. The WATER had to do something. We could forever say that Smokie was just playing Ben all along and he wanted Ben to think that Ben was in control of it. That’s all fine and plausable. At the same time though, the room that Ben was in to summon Smokie wasn’t built by Dharma, or anyone else of this century. It appeared to be as old as the temple, meaning it had importance of some kind.

There must be a connection between water and Smokie. Ben’s act of draining that water HAS to have some significance. It’s an easily overlooked segment of the 4th season simply because of all the freighter BS going on at the time.

What I find interesting lately about Lost is that it is connecting the purity and power of these 2 elements of water and ash to other people or entities. Jacob dies, the water becomes unpure. Dogen dies, the ash now has lost it’s protective power. I suspect, for these 2 island elements to become pure and having power again, something or somebody must become alive, resurrect, or be born(for the water..) and for the ash to protect again; something or somebody must die, as a sacrifice.