Comments on: The Exceptional and Pious Doctor Flips the ‘Secret’ Switch from Dark to Light… http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/ A place to write and read Lost Theories Thu, 17 May 2012 19:43:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Achalli http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31934 Achalli Fri, 09 Apr 2010 05:48:08 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31934 All right AES, I've been trying to wrap my mind around all this and I believe I've come up with something worthwhile. There were two things that stood out to me out of all this. The first is the paragraph where you discuss natural law and human nature. If I'm understanding all of this correctly than anything that goes against human nature and natural law is a bad thing. Now, Smokey believes that humans can not overcome their own nature, which is, he basically believes, is animalistic. So anything that goes against this, say like free will, is bad. Not only does Smokey believe this but he lives by it as well as evidenced by all the killing he does himself. Hold this thought now. The second thing that jumped out was how you said that we may be looking at the dispute between Jacob and Smokey the wrong way. This set me to thinking. What if Jacob is not trying to prove Smokey wrong by having other people change but is actually hoping to use other people to get Smokey to change his own nature? Perhaps Jacob is trying to get Smokey to rise above his nature and not give in to it. All right AES, I’ve been trying to wrap my mind around all this and I believe I’ve come up with something worthwhile.

There were two things that stood out to me out of all this. The first is the paragraph where you discuss natural law and human nature. If I’m understanding all of this correctly than anything that goes against human nature and natural law is a bad thing. Now, Smokey believes that humans can not overcome their own nature, which is, he basically believes, is animalistic. So anything that goes against this, say like free will, is bad. Not only does Smokey believe this but he lives by it as well as evidenced by all the killing he does himself. Hold this thought now.

The second thing that jumped out was how you said that we may be looking at the dispute between Jacob and Smokey the wrong way. This set me to thinking. What if Jacob is not trying to prove Smokey wrong by having other people change but is actually hoping to use other people to get Smokey to change his own nature? Perhaps Jacob is trying to get Smokey to rise above his nature and not give in to it.

]]> By: Roland http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31931 Roland Fri, 09 Apr 2010 03:47:59 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31931 Cool Stuff AES. I like having to study up on things writeen here. There are two names which I am suprised we have never heard in connection with Lost. They are Leibniz and Newton. I only bring them because Leibniz was greatly influenced by Suarez. I read some books by Neal Stephenson, the Baroque Cycle, a while back where the feud between those two was greatly enhanced. On the surface their argument was about who invented calculus first. But, according to the books (not sure how much is fictionalizsed, probably a most of it) their dispute went much deeper. I'm only going by memory so I may get some of this wrong. At the heart of the dispute was freewill vs. predestination. Newton's view of the universe being what it is he believed everything was preordained. Leibniz, now considered by some to be the grandfather of quantum mechanics, thought there was much more choice involved, so he was on the side of freewill. After coming out with the principia mathematica not many people were inclined to criticise Newton, except Leibniz, who was shunned by the Royal Society and ended his life in obscurity. I have often thought that MIB and Jacob are in fact Newton and Leibniz, respectively. Really only because of the Baroque Cycle, I have no evidence. Maybe someone on here has read the books and can explain this better than I can. Cool Stuff AES. I like having to study up on things writeen here.
There are two names which I am suprised we have never heard in connection with Lost. They are Leibniz and Newton. I only bring them because Leibniz was greatly influenced by Suarez.
I read some books by Neal Stephenson, the Baroque Cycle, a while back where the feud between those two was greatly enhanced. On the surface their argument was about who invented calculus first. But, according to the books (not sure how much is fictionalizsed, probably a most of it) their dispute went much deeper. I’m only going by memory so I may get some of this wrong. At the heart of the dispute was freewill vs. predestination. Newton’s view of the universe being what it is he believed everything was preordained. Leibniz, now considered by some to be the grandfather of quantum mechanics, thought there was much more choice involved, so he was on the side of freewill. After coming out with the principia mathematica not many people were inclined to criticise Newton, except Leibniz, who was shunned by the Royal Society and ended his life in obscurity. I have often thought that MIB and Jacob are in fact Newton and Leibniz, respectively. Really only because of the Baroque Cycle, I have no evidence. Maybe someone on here has read the books and can explain this better than I can.

]]> By: dabiatchishere http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31897 dabiatchishere Thu, 08 Apr 2010 20:25:42 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31897 AES, you did an excellent job on researching Suarez! Lost has made a habit of including the namesakes of many Philosophers. It's fascinating to read up on all of them. Others who have been named after famous philosophers on the show in addition to John Locke are; Anthony Ashley-Cooper (mentor of John Locke), Jeremy Bentham, Jean Jacques Rousseau, David Hume, Mikhail Bakunin and Edmund Burke. Reading up them and examining their individual philosophies assists in understanding some of the concepts that the show is attempting to deliver on a philosophical basis. AES, you did an excellent job on researching Suarez!

Lost has made a habit of including the namesakes of many Philosophers. It’s fascinating to read up on all of them. Others who have been named after famous philosophers on the show in addition to John Locke are; Anthony Ashley-Cooper (mentor of John Locke), Jeremy Bentham, Jean Jacques Rousseau, David Hume, Mikhail Bakunin and Edmund Burke.

Reading up them and examining their individual philosophies assists in understanding some of the concepts that the show is attempting to deliver on a philosophical basis.

]]> By: stone http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31895 stone Thu, 08 Apr 2010 19:46:06 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31895 I'll read the entire post later, couldn't put myself to it now. I'm sure it will be clearer then, and looking at all the comments here, I'm sure it's again one hell of a post.. I’ll read the entire post later, couldn’t put myself to it now. I’m sure it will be clearer then, and looking at all the comments here, I’m sure it’s again one hell of a post..

]]> By: A.E.S. http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31894 A.E.S. Thu, 08 Apr 2010 19:35:05 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31894 Maybe not directly, but something like this could be a good secret after explaining the part that we saw...who knows for sure though... Maybe not directly, but something like this could be a good secret after explaining the part that we saw…who knows for sure though…

]]> By: stone http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31892 stone Thu, 08 Apr 2010 18:11:58 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31892 And you think the secret Locke told Walt has something to do with it? And you think the secret Locke told Walt has something to do with it?

]]> By: A.E.S. http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31891 A.E.S. Thu, 08 Apr 2010 18:07:18 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31891 oh, and fresnele, I have not, but I will read your theory this evening as well...thanks again for the comments oh, and fresnele, I have not, but I will read your theory this evening as well…thanks again for the comments

]]> By: A.E.S. http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31890 A.E.S. Thu, 08 Apr 2010 18:05:46 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31890 Thank you all very much for the thoughts...I will get to them individually tonight, but I just want to comment on the end of stones comment, referencing the application of the line... "Locke warns against, for example, letting “a foolish maid” convince a child that “goblins and sprites” are associated with the night for “darkness shall ever afterwards bring with it those frightful ideas, and they shall be so joined, that he can no more bear the one than the other." I saw this and thought instantly of "light vs dark", and we(almost everyone) automatically assumes light to be good, and dark to be evil... I thought about Widmores words to MIB/Locke about ghost stories and tales of whispers in the jungle, compared to spirites in the darkness that the philosopher spoke of... I thought about those things and AGAIN, second guess the notion of MIB (who at the moment represents John Locke) being compared to darkness, and wonder if the real John Lockes philosophy could possibly mean that we are viewing "light vs dark" in the incorrect manner... I hope that can clear up my interpretation of the final John Locke beliefs from the end of my theory...thanks again, and Ill get back to this a little later... Thank you all very much for the thoughts…I will get to them individually tonight, but I just want to comment on the end of stones comment, referencing the application of the line…

“Locke warns against, for example, letting “a foolish maid” convince a child that “goblins and sprites” are associated with the night for “darkness shall ever afterwards bring with it those frightful ideas, and they shall be so joined, that he can no more bear the one than the other.”

I saw this and thought instantly of “light vs dark”, and we(almost everyone) automatically assumes light to be good, and dark to be evil…

I thought about Widmores words to MIB/Locke about ghost stories and tales of whispers in the jungle, compared to spirites in the darkness that the philosopher spoke of…

I thought about those things and AGAIN, second guess the notion of MIB (who at the moment represents John Locke) being compared to darkness, and wonder if the real John Lockes philosophy could possibly mean that we are viewing “light vs dark” in the incorrect manner…

I hope that can clear up my interpretation of the final John Locke beliefs from the end of my theory…thanks again, and Ill get back to this a little later…

]]> By: fresnele http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31889 fresnele Thu, 08 Apr 2010 17:22:53 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31889 Wow, AES, this was a fantastic and thrilling read...!! Your research here is impressive, and how you've managed to link ideas and relate them back to the show is just great. Thanks for all your work and for sharing it with us! I was wondering if you've had a chance to read my post titled "Romulus, Remus & So Much More…". The reason I'm asking is that in it, I too have related many aspects of the show's characters to philosophical ideas from well-know writers such as those mentioned in your post: from Locke himself and the "Tabula Rasa", to Hobbes and his ideas on human nature... I think that this is a perfect illustration of how the same theories and ideas can be interpreted in various ways, leading to different conclusions. As an example: interesting to see how you took Locke's (the philosopher) ideas on "tabula rasa" to relate his character to Nemesis (and his homonym) on the show, and how he is "very disappointed with those who follow blindly" - while I took the same concept from the same philosopher and related it to "the original" John Locke on the show and Jacob, and their promotion of free will and getting a clean slate on the island... What do you think of that? In any case, like I said, I found your post outstanding. I love it when facts meet fiction, and I am convinced that the writers are making constant winks in the show's scripts to the background behind their ideas - the hints are in the names of some characters, and the content is in their actions. GREAT STUFF!! And - forgot to mention - great catch on "Father Suarez"!! I definitely missed that one.... although I did get a friekish chill when he suddenly went from "nice loving priest" to "evil judging Torquemada" in the wink of an eye.... Doesn't he look just like Cheech Marin too?? LOL Wow, AES, this was a fantastic and thrilling read…!! Your research here is impressive, and how you’ve managed to link ideas and relate them back to the show is just great. Thanks for all your work and for sharing it with us!

I was wondering if you’ve had a chance to read my post titled “Romulus, Remus & So Much More…”. The reason I’m asking is that in it, I too have related many aspects of the show’s characters to philosophical ideas from well-know writers such as those mentioned in your post: from Locke himself and the “Tabula Rasa”, to Hobbes and his ideas on human nature…

I think that this is a perfect illustration of how the same theories and ideas can be interpreted in various ways, leading to different conclusions. As an example: interesting to see how you took Locke’s (the philosopher) ideas on “tabula rasa” to relate his character to Nemesis (and his homonym) on the show, and how he is “very disappointed with those who follow blindly” – while I took the same concept from the same philosopher and related it to “the original” John Locke on the show and Jacob, and their promotion of free will and getting a clean slate on the island…

What do you think of that?

In any case, like I said, I found your post outstanding. I love it when facts meet fiction, and I am convinced that the writers are making constant winks in the show’s scripts to the background behind their ideas – the hints are in the names of some characters, and the content is in their actions.

GREAT STUFF!!

And – forgot to mention – great catch on “Father Suarez”!! I definitely missed that one…. although I did get a friekish chill when he suddenly went from “nice loving priest” to “evil judging Torquemada” in the wink of an eye…. Doesn’t he look just like Cheech Marin too?? LOL

]]> By: stone http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/04/the-exceptional-and-pious-doctor-flips-the-secret-switch-from-dark-to-light/#comment-31881 stone Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:27:50 +0000 http://www.theoriesonlost.com/?p=12156#comment-31881 Okay, lol. This was just too much. I didn't read all of it, but tried to read the most important things. Your mentioning of Grotius is a good point...since DeGroot is an important name in the background of Lost. And I can't really apply the last thought you mention to Lost...maybe this is too deep for some :P Okay, lol. This was just too much. I didn’t read all of it, but tried to read the most important things.

Your mentioning of Grotius is a good point…since DeGroot is an important name in the background of Lost.

And I can’t really apply the last thought you mention to Lost…maybe this is too deep for some :P

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