Ben killed Widmore as Charles whispered something important to Flocke.

In the first scene we saw Ben and Charles together way back (season 4?), Ben had creeped into his bedroom off island and they had that ambiguous conversation which shed a little light on the rules.
Ben could have just as easily exacted his revenge for Alex’s death then and there, but couldn’t, as the rules wouldn’t allow it.
What changed the rules for Ben?
It reminded me of the scene where Locke was on the verge of commiting suicide until Ben saved him at the last second. As soon as John mentioned Ms Hawkings name, Linus mercilessly strangled him. Why?

It made me realize, we still aren’t certain of Ben motives, maybe he is still on some mission that he is keeping well hidden. Ben always seems to know more than he has let on, what does he know and what has he been up to?

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I’ve been talking about this in some of my comments but I thought it would make a good theory. I believe that the Alt we are seeing is the Real World. Smokie is trying to the leave The Island to reenter the Real World which will lead to the destruction of everything we know and love. The Island is the cork protecting the Real World from this evil being. This is why Widmore says “I didn’t murder them” when Sawyer asks why he killed the Ajira passengers. Widmore knows they exist in the Real World and on the Island they are not in their “real” existences. This is how people can do seemingly evil things on the Island but not be marked as tipping towards the dark side (Ben for example). Some people’s consciousnesses can flow between both like Desmond (Hawking’s, Widmore, etc) and can understand the whole picture.

This is why Smokie knew some of them survived because he was still on the Island and not in the Alt aka the Real World.

what do you guys think?

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I just thought i’d throw it out there and see what people think. Probably not a fresh thought but…could ‘the package’ be Jacobs replacement in some way? I got the feeling from Desmonds odd appearance on the plane in the alt that there would be some reason why, but we haven’t seen him show up in the alt again, yet. It seemed very Jacob-esque, zen like, not forgetting that Desmond was once a monk.
What if even if its just in the alt, he has some sort of position like Jacob. I got nothing to back this up really, but i’m just trying to pre-empt the next episode, so i guess we’ll find out next week.

I’m also wondering, Widmore is obviously aware of Desmonds importance, but was Jacob?
Is Des a candidate i can’t remember his name being on that list, was Jacob even aware of his existence on the island? Even more importantly, was MIB/smokey aware of him? Maybe thats why he was kept secret in that hatch, until the day he was ‘accidentally’ endowed with Doctor Who type powers.
It would seem Widmore has thrown his own ‘variable’ into the equation.

Can’t wait for next week.

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Written 22nd March

We have been focusing a lot on the other characters, and rightfully so, but it’s inevitable we’ll have a Sun (or Jin/Sun) episode soon enough. Because the Kwons are involved in the numbers, and the fact that Jacob touched both of them and Ilana has confirmed “she isn’t sure which one of [them] she’s supposed to protect”, we know they’re going to come up soon. (Sidebar: Just want to say I enjoy whoever made the theory that Jacob touching both of them means their daughter, Ji Yeon, who could only be conceived on the Island, is the actual candidate).

It could just be good TV to keep them apart (in different timelines and whatnot) but I really think that their separation is integral to the plot, and ultimately, the fate of the Island. Here are the points I want to address:

    JIN & SUN BEING SEPARATED IS ANOTHER TYPE OF CORK

1. Jacob encouraged the two of them at their wedding when he touched them to cherish their time together. This “touch” could mean different things and has been debated in other threads (I’ve argued before that Jacob’s touch could actually be taking away and not a gift), but nonetheless what he tells them echoes to me what the psychic told Claire about raising Aaron, though obviously not exactly as fatalistic.

Why is this important? I think that, especially if it turns out that Jin/Sun are candidates together, their separation right now is very key to what’s going on on the Island, and there is another force at hand trying to keep them apart (MIB, I’d think). Remember Sun’s reaction when she realized she hadn’t been hanging out with the Real John Locke when they had landed? She was shocked because she had been following Flocke around and he had even told her he was going to do his best to reunite her with Jin and the other original Losties. Then he goes around and tells Ben he’s not interested in that at all. To me, it’s another major instance of MIB trying to keep them separated.

    SUN IS NOW A POWER PLAYER, A LA WIDMORE

2. Paik Industries is very powerful, but we don’t know too much about the company via the show. What we do know is that Sun’s father was probably as powerful as Widmore in this way (his Korean foil if you will), but we don’t see any ties to the Island thus far apart from his daughter. Remember that, at least in the regular timeline, Sun is now an important figure in relation to Paik Industries– she bought a big enough share of the company with her Oceanic settlement, so now she’s a power player herself. From her flashbacks, we can see that at a young age she was always struggling to gain the upper hand from her father and that she also will do what it takes to save her and hers. (Even though she was only a kid, the writers chose to show an instance in her life where she lies to save herself, even at the expense of others. I don’t think this was shown purely to show how her dad controlled things… I think it’s a signal to a major character trait.)

We know that Sun would do anything to reunite with Jin, even if it meant compromising the other Oceanic 6-ers.

    SUN GAVE UP LAMP POST INFO TO WIDMORE

3. Sun went to see Widmore in the UK, and he expressed he was annoyed she approached him “in front of his associates” but didn’t exactly seem surprised to see her either.

In this scene where she approaches Widmore, she says they have mutual interests… that is, they are both interested in killing Ben Linus. Later on, when she’s taking care of Aaron for Kate in L.A., she opens up an envelope with surveillance photos of Ben and Jack, and a gun. We all kind of assume that her main reason for having these photos is to kill Ben. However, she wouldn’t have had to contact Widmore for resources to monitor and kill Ben– she has plenty of those, she’s rich. So what kind of deal has Sun struck with Widmore? Why did she really need to contact him? It may have been to bring Widmore back to the Island– since now we saw he eventually got through and found the Island.

I think, before she knew it, she agreed to lead Widmore to the Lamp Post. Widmore must’ve known that Eloise was trying to send them back. She may have given up Eloise Hawking (which we all kind of assume Widmore knew about being a former leader of The Others, but if you’re reading this and can tell me the exact scene I’ll rethink this part). If not this, there had to be another piece of the negotiation we’re not shown.

    SOMETHING ELSE I THREW IN FOR YOUR THOUGHTS (BEN)

4. When the Oceanic 6 meet at the dock, Ben tells Sun that Jin is alive– probably moreso to save his own arse, but also to get her to trust him. Jin had given the Real John Locke his ring, hoping that Sun would believe he was dead so she wouldn’t try to come back to the Island. Ben had taken it from Locke– he probably foresaw this would be a good way to gain her trust to bring her back to the Lamp Post, and uses it for the opposite reason. He shows it to her and lies to her saying that Locke had given it to him.

    WHY SUN WASN’T TRANSPORTED TO 1977

5. We haven’t been told why Sun wasn’t transported to 1977 with Jack, Sayid, Hurley, and Kate on Ajira? Some speculate it’s because she isn’t #42, so she wasn’t meant to return to the main Island and that’s why she wasn’t transported to 1977. Could it be because she has been compromised because of her deal? If so, and she is a candidate, it probably removes her from being a candidate… if not, then she probably isn’t a candidate anyway.

    IN CONCLUSION

As you can see, I avoided a lot of polarizing here– I don’t want to hastily categorize any one figure involved here as “good” or “bad”, because no side (whether there are 2 or 3 in opposition) has yet to fully reveal their motivations for their actions.

I’m fully aware my memory has a lot of holes, and so this theory probably does too. If I had time I would rewatch those episodes of her dealing with Widmore and Ben, along with the way she operates when they return on Ajira. Now that Widmore is back on the island, I’m really interested in seeing how it all pans out and what the connections to Sun are.

Wouldn’t the writers think it would be a great twist to see that Sun as a Judas/Brutus figure on this show, considering how she is generally portrayed in a good light?

Thoughts?

March 27 Edit: I added headers to make it easier to read since it’s so long!

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I’ve seen a lot of people doubting the elements of the show that at least are supposed to appear “obvious” lately. Well, I believe that the writers are done messing with our heads. I think that, in season six, everything is what is appears. Jacob is good, MIB is evil, the Island is the cork, the alt. timeline is just an alt. timeline (I’m less sure on that, though), MIB is the Smoke Monster, and Charles Widmore is against MIB. Isn’t it possible that they’re done confusing us?

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Remember in the off-island Dharma station where Eloise Hawking takes Jack, Sun, Ben and Desmond to show them how the DI can predict where the island will be? Well, Desmond delivered Daniel Faraday’s message to his mother, and when she told him that the island wasn’t done with him yet, he stormed off saying, “Well, I’m done with the island!”

Somehow, I believe Eloise…Desmond can’t have a normal life just yet… So far, however, we haven’t seen Desmond get back to the island or do anything island-ish… Anybody have ideas on how Desmond might have his story woven back into the picture? Perhaps involving Penny? I know some people think he’s locked in the room on Widmore’s submarine. What could he be up to off-island?

Discuss =)

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This theory has to do with how I believe MiB intends to “return home”…and by that I am assuming he means off the island..sorry to anyone who already proposed Widmore’s sub is MiB’s way “home”…enjoy!

In the last episode, we see UnLocke (MiB) approach Ben (while Ben is digging his own grave) and tell him that “there is no better man for the job” to take care of the island after he (UnLocke/MiB) and his group of followers (Kate, Claire, Sawyer, Sayid and Jin? Also, whoever survived the temple massacre) leave. Additionally, he asks Ben to come to the Hydra station (isn’t that the underwater one?) where he’s headed. Last but not least, we see Widmore returning to the island on a submarine at the end of the episode.

Does anyone find it ironic that Widmore has been searching for the island for YEARS and YEARS, but just happens to find it and hop on a sub headed there IMMEDIATELY after Jacob dies? What if Jacob was the reason Widmore couldn’t find it for so long? It certainly wasn’t for lack of trying. Afterall, Widmore has many resources available to him, and I’m sure somehow he could have used Eloise Hawking’s Dharma station to predict its location. I’m sure he was smart enough to be spying on her off-island activities… What if Jacob was using his “powers” to mask the island from Widmore for all these years? Perhaps along with the ability to bring people to the island, he has the ability to hide the island, too! Then it would make sense that once Jacob died and no one was masking the island from Widmore, he immediately found it, and thus we are shown Widmore approaching the island.

Now back to UnLocke…what if Widmore’s sub is HOW UnLocke plans to leave with his followers and get off the island?!? The only way people (namely Locke and Ben – we don’t know how Richard and Jacob show up off-island periodically) have left the island so far involves the donkey wheel, but that can only transport the one person who turns it, and that person ends up in a Tunisian desert…so let’s eliminate that choice. Assuming UnLocke can’t turn into a smoke-monster shaped as a boat and float everyone to a mainland (ha ha!), I think that Widmore’s submarine is going to play a key part in UnLocke’s scheme to get off the island. The Hydra station, if I recall correctly from when Desmond and Charlie were there, has a means of communicating with submarines in range…thoughts anyone?

Now, we know that Jacob (or, should I say his spirit, since he is technically dead) already knew someone was coming because he told Hurley so. Jacob never mentions Widmore’s name, but let’s assume that Jacob did know exactly who it was. Jacob told Hurley something like, “he needs help getting here” and thus, sends Hurley and Jack to the lighthouse. Now, if Jacob had been exerting effort to mask the island from Widmore, I doubt he would all of a sudden be trying to help him get there just because he died. Perhaps, masking the island from Widmore POSTPONED Widmore’s arrival until the correct time (big surprise – more scheming) when his presence was needed. Perhaps now that Ben disappointed Jacob (as we are lead to believe from Miles’s explanation of Jacob’s last thoughts before Ben killed him), Jacob now has need to revert back to a previous leader – namely Widmore, because he was the leader before Ben (as far as we know). Simply stated, Jacob didn’t want Widmore there because Ben was handling things fine until Ben killed Jacob, so Jacob’s death allowed Widmore to find the island and Jacob now also wants Widmore back because Ben is disappointingly unreliable…AND apparently UnLocke/MiB wants Ben to take over the island, which can only mean Ben is now useless to Jacob’s cause.

It is interesting to note that Ilana lets Ben stay in her “group”, but we do not know if Ilana and Jacob’s plans are aligned because they no longer communicate now that Jacob is dead. So even if Jacob finds Ben useless, Ilana might not know this, or she simply might be trying to prevent UnLocke from getting one more person on the wrong side, so she lets Ben stay with her.

Whether or not Widmore knows what he is in for….well, who can say? Widmore did say to Locke that if he did not return to the island, the wrong side will win…Locke technically DID NOT return to the island because Ben had already killed him before he returned. Only his body went back…so I’m guessing that doesn’t count.. What if Widmore heard of Locke’s death and is now coming to the island to help Jacob’s side of the war (because he knew Locke’s not-returning would cause the war/provide the loophole)? Conversely, what if Widmore is returning because after hearing upon Locke’s death, Widmore knew MiB would win/want to leave the island, so he is providing MiB’s way off the island (the sub) in exchange for taking over the island after MiB leaves (in which case Ben will probably fight with him over right to the island)?

I think the second scenario might be more fitting as Widmore is conniving, but I believe something will happen to Ben so that Widmore is fighting against Jacob’s chosen candidate (in place of Ben) just like MiB and Jacob have been fighting for so many years….

I hope this makes sense, as I wrote it in a hurry as soon as it popped into my head! As always, thanks for reading my ramblings =)

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Written 10th March

At first i thought the “people” Jacob said where coming to the island where going to help out jacob and company. And since Widmore is an Other it would make sence he would be on jacobs side. But then again Ben said its was jacobs choice for Widdy to leave the island. Now MIB seems to have a good team already and it would be a good match up between the two sides if Widdy teams up with Ben and Jack. But since Widmore wants to exploit the island it seems him and MIB have similar interests. It was a very suspencfull ending! Go Lost. please help

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ok, i’m just speculating here, but i just thought i’d throw it out there.
I’ve always thought Dharma/Hanso would come back into play. I think we will be seeing Widmore again this season, is it possible that they’re all working together off island for the greater good?

Hawking helped the Oceanic 6 get back to the island by using that ‘abandoned’ Dharma station, why would they just abandon such an important place? I propose they didn’t, i say Hawking was working with Dharma to get the losties back. Dharmas gotta still be in action, we know the people they had on the island got wiped out, but their headquarters was off island in Ann Arbour.

We know theres a connection between Widmore and Hawking already. Now, Widmores corporation was the very same one that organized the boat race which Desmond took part in, he ended up on the island because of this.
The widmore labs logo appears on the side of the balloon that landed on the island flown by the real Henry Gale.
Widmores company also work in construction.
More importantly, Widmore pregnancy tests have appeared on the island, along with Dharma brand products. Coincidence? I think not.
With their shared interests in the island and whatever grave danger it is they’re all trying to prevent, is it not possible that their all working together off island? Who better to help the Hanso corporation/Dharma than two former natives, one being a former leader?

Maybe we’ll see them all return to it this season!

This to me seems like another thing thats been staring me right in the face, and somehow i didn’t see it.
Let me know what you think.

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Well for a start I’d like to say this will either be like…Aah! I has potential or it will be a load of rubbish.

I’ll get straight to the point:

Charlie Hume comes to the island along with Penny and Desmond for a reason that will be explained, Penny and Desmond go through a time window and end up around 1930-1945. The Others kill them but spare Charlie, they give him a name, Charles Widmore. Why Widmore you say? Well maybe they find a Widmore reference on the Island in 19?? or perhaps on Penny. And Charles well…maybe Penny shouts Charles/Charlie before she gets shot or something.

We have seen the stones in the caves in Flashes Before Your Eyes on the table haven’t we? So Penny and Des could possibly be the skeletons, but WHY would they have the stones? This makes Penny’s Son her Father too, which I read a theory on the fun section? I think. And also I have commented this in less detail?

See what you can do guys and correct me if I’m wrong there are a lot of holes in this mad chaotic theory but I hope I can open your eyes to something and begin to unravel the lost mystery! Good Luck!

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Maybe this has been asked and answered before and I just did not see it.

Soooo…….Eloise HAWKING is Daniel’s mother and Charles WIDMORE is his father. Did I miss in the show where they explained why Daniel’s last name is FARADAY? Just an thought I had today that never really hit me before. I could see if Eloise and Charles were not married her not giving him the Widmore name, but if that were the case why did she just not make his last name Hawking?

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Something has been bugging me in an episode from season 4, the one where Sayid goes to france i think it is to kill someone and meets up with the woman who tries to kill him etc.

I didnt like this when i watched because it seemed to be a completely different episode from the rest of the season and didnt seem relevent, but as we know nothing is really irrelevent in Lost, well ok some stuff from season 1-3 is pretty irrelevent. But since season 4 we seem to be going at quite a fast pace, so the question is who did Sayid kill? (im not entirely sure but i think he killed quite a few people in that episode) What is their relevence to the story, who was the assistant an assistant to? we are assuming Widmore but thats never been verified, in fact this is one of the few episodes where there have been no answers to what was happening in it.

Anyone have any thoughts?

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If Widmore monitors the “exit” in Tunisia, and Ben landed there before, why didn’t Widmore capture him? Even though he can’t kill him, wouldn’t he be better able to execute his plan if Ben were indisposed?

What do you think?

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This is my first post, so

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I apologize if this has already been said, but i have a few thoughts on Faraday and Widmore.

I believe that Widmore has traveled in time, and he knows that Faraday’s research will help him get back to the island. That is why he funds Faraday’s research.

It is also possible that Widmore is Faraday’s father.

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Are they in a struggle to win Jacob (and his powers) over and ultimately control the island?

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First off…. If you haven’t watched episode 3 of season 5 DO NOT READ!!

We saw when Faraday talked to Desmond in the hatch in the first episode of the season that Desmond wakes up from a dream with a new memory.

In THE SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME in season 4 Widmore tells Ben he kept a bottle of macutcheon when the NIGHTMARES began.

Well tonight we learned Widmore is on the island when Juliet, Sawyer , and Locke and company travel back.

Remember Widmore has to kill his friend among other things concerning Juliet Sawyer and Locke.

Anyways…. These are the nightmares!

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Mrs Hawking is the woman who Desmond met at the jewerly store when he went to get an engagement ring for Penny. He was about to change events by deciding to buy the ring, when Mrs Hawking tells him that he doesn’t do that, that he changes his mind and walks out the door. She explains to a confused Desmond about course correction and that if he doesn’t end up on that island pushing that button every single living thing will die.

Spooky.

So who is Mrs Hawking?

I think that Mrs Hawking has some connection with Widmore. She could possibly be an ex of his (persuming Hawking is now her married name). Widmore knows she has special abilities and was once on the island herself, around the time that Charles was. That was how they met. She could also be the mother of Penny.

There’s allsorts of connections going on in lost and I don’t think she is just a random psychic that Desmond happened to meet. If Mrs Hawking is Pennys mother then that could lead to allsorts of possibilites for the show.

What do you think??

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