Richard, Ben, The Temple and The ‘All Seeing Eye’

Richard Alpert tells Sawyer and Kate, that he can save young Ben if he takes him to the temple, but that young Ben, will have no memory of the events, and ‘his innocence’ will be forever lost. Let’s explore this loss of innocence, and its possible origins.

To understand Richard Alpert is, to first know who Richard is, and from whence he came. But, all we know is that he appears not to age, and he also does NOT answer to any ‘man’, nor does he appear to answer to the almighty ‘Jacob’.

The ‘Temple’ is reminiscent of the ancient ‘temples’ of Egypt. I view Richard Alpert as a ‘High Priest’, of sorts who appears to wield a lot of power within ‘the others’ group. Regardless of whoever has been the so-called leader, past, present or future, Richard has ultimately always been ‘calling the shots’ when it comes right down to it, and clearly answers to a ‘higher power’ on ‘the island’, that still remains unseen. The Smoke Monster, aka Cerebus, is purported to be the Guardian of the Underworld.

Ancient priests used a variety of methods of healing, including elixirs, astronomy and magic. I believe young Ben will be physically healed and forever transformed by the healing ceremony and ritual he is about to undergo.

The ‘Eye of Horus’ is associated with both the Egyptian God Horus and his father Osiris. The ‘Eye of Horus’ conveys the idea of the ‘All seeing Eye’. The end set before the Egyptian neophyte was illumination, which is to be ‘brought to light’. The Religion of Egypt was the Religion of the Light. This is the ceremonial ritual that young Ben will go through, and how his innocence will be lost.

One particular aspect that speaks directly to ‘the loss of innocence’ from the bible is, the story of Adam & Eve. The Serpent promised Adam & Eve that their eyes would ‘be opened’ if they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The key word in this passage is ‘eyes’, which in Hebrew can be translated ‘knowledge.’ Opened can be translated ‘broadened.’ What the Serpent promised Adam & Eve was that their knowledge would be broadened if they ate of the forbidden fruit. But the most foreboding aspect of this passage emerges from the fact that the Hebrew word for ‘eyes’ is not plural, but singular. What the Serpent actually told Adam & Eve was that their ‘eye’ would be broadened by knowledge. The ‘eye’ that the Bible wants us to consider is not the physical organ of sight, but the ‘eye’ of the mind or the soul. This singular ‘eye’ is called the ‘third eye’ of clairvoyance in the Hindu religion, the ‘eye’ of Osiris in Egypt, and the ‘All Seeing Eye’ in Freemasonry and the Illuminati. The ‘All Seeing Eye’ is one of the oldest hieroglyphics of the Deity. The triangle also is a cabalistic symbol of the most remote antiquity.

The last time we saw Ms. Hawking, it was in the basement of a church, assisting the ’06’ with their return to ‘the island’. What exactly does our Ms. Hawking have to do with the church and why is she allowed to operate in such secrecy within its walls? What are Ms. Hawking’s connections to Brother Campbell? There are undeniable religious undertones present throughout the story line in Lost, but we have been unable to connect the dots.

Ben has Sayid kill some of the associates of Charles Widmore on the outside world. These men appeared to be as wealthy and as powerful as Widmore. The question is, who are/were these men, and what did/do any of them have to do with ‘the island’? Why are so many people on the outside world, interested in ‘the island’?
This is where ‘Secret Societies’ and modern day beliefs enter into the picture. Many modern groups, though not related, claim to be offshoots of the original so-called Mystery Religion. They all carry the same symbols, such as the ‘All Seeing Eye’, and believe in the same so-called Secret Doctrine. The ‘All Seeing Eye’, is an important symbol within Freemasonry and Rosicrucian traditions.
We know these ‘secret societies’ exist. In fact, a few of our nations leaders were and are members of them. Evidence of their modern day beliefs can even be found on US currency. On the reverse of the US Great Seal is an unfinished pyramid to represent human society itself, imperfect and incomplete. Above, floats the symbol of the esoteric orders, the radiant triangle with its ‘all seeing eye’.

There is only one possible origin for these symbols, and that is the ‘secret societies’. The symbol may represent a god, but it is not the God of the Bible. It is a human eye indicating that man is god!

I suspect we will learn more about the very nature of ‘the others’ belief system, and who may stand in opposition of it and who is supporting it, for reasons that are fairly obvious. The ‘island’ is the very essence of ‘power’ and life/death/re-birth itself. Was Dharma a ‘front’ for one of these societies, or something completely different? Somebody on ‘the island’ gave Dharma permission to inhabit and explore ‘the island’ and a truce was negotiated. Could their now be a ‘Secret Society’/Government involvement, that threatens ‘the island’ and perhaps the world?

Regardless of the time travel issues, and all of the many mysteries we have been privy to, something larger is at hand. I doubt anyone could deny this. We have witnessed a miracle! John Locke has been resurrected on ‘the island’. How could this not have any religious undertones or divine meaning?

The Holy Trinity represents God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. The Unholy Trinity represents Satan, Antichrist, and the False Prophet. White vs. Black, Light vs. Dark. Sound familiar?

AES is correct when he speaks about Lost focusing on the children, and they are ‘blank slates’, the ‘tabula rasas’. Claire did not want Kate to bring Aaron back to ‘the island’. Perhaps, she was trying to protect Aaron’s loss of innocence. The children are the only true ‘innocents’ and perhaps the way of the future. They are worth protecting at all cost.

I leave you with the following quote by Mark Twain:

The common eye sees only the outside of things,
and judges by that, but the ‘all seeing eye’ pierces
through, and reads the heart and the soul, finding
there capacities which the outside didn’t indicate or
promise, and which the other kind couldn’t detect.

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~ Contrary to popular misconception, karma has nothing to do with punishment and reward. It exists as part of our holographic universe’s binary or dualistic operating system only to teach us responsibility for our creations—and all things we experience are our creations. ~

153 thoughts on “Richard, Ben, The Temple and The ‘All Seeing Eye’

  1. That’s an excellent wrap up of a lot of information! I think of all the things we’d like to know about Richard Alpert, knowing who his allegiances are with would be the most illuminating. He seems to hang with the Others but in a lot of ways you can tell he’s not really one of them… the way he treats Ben, for example and his statement that he doesn’t answer to Ellie and Charles…

    He’s obviously not on the side of the DHARMA Initiative. Personally I think the removal of the DI was what caused all the problems by throwing things out of balance. It will be revealed I believe that everything dependent on a balance between science and faith. The DI represents science while the Others represent faith and removing the science side was a grave miscalculation made by the Others. Remember Pierre Chang in the DHARMA Booth Video? “The DHARMA Initiative must be reconstituted!”

    The mystery here though is why did Richard go along with it?

    I have some more thoughts but things are getting busy at work so I’ll be back to this later…

  2. Thanks for your vote of support, highbrow! There was so much information for this theory, it was difficult to leave out things which I felt were important to illustrate the point.

    Richard Alpert and his driving force are indeed a mystery. You are correct. He seems to have little respect for Ellie & Widmore, and was willing to throw Ben ‘under the bus’, in favour of Locke as leader.

    I think your statements, about throwing things out of balance, applies in this case. Perhaps, that is the illustration Lost is making. That without the balance between science and faith, things go afoul.

    I am also trying to illustrate the natural progression from a very ancient religion, brought into modern times and how it might apply to some of the characters and organizations such as Dharma.

  3. Have you read “A Brief History of Time” by Stephen Hawking? Books seem to show up on the show to give us clues and I think that one is a big one. I haven’t read the whole thing… I’m about 3/4 of the way through it right now. So far though I’m getting the impression that Hawking, through science, is doing the exact same thing religion and faith are trying to do… Explain where we came from and why we’re here. Science and faith are two different paths to the same thing. Maybe Richard is going along with the faith side more to prove a point… to teach them a lesson about balance.

    Someone mentioned a while back that there seem to be two groups of Others. Ben’s group and the bunch with Richard. Maybe Ben’s group specifically represents faith. Maybe Richards group (or maybe just Richard himself with others who have joined him along the way) are separate. A group of faith, as evidenced by the temple and all that, which also employs technology such as the frozen donkey wheel time travel thingy. A balanced group.

    Anyway, work… right. Anyone know why I can’t get ProductView 9 to install on this guy’s machine? It works for everyone else… Oh well…

  4. highbrow, I have been a long time fan of Stephen Hawking! I have not fully read A Brief History of Time, but have read some of his other works. He is extremely brilliant when it comes to marrying the subject of science and faith. That is why Lost initially appealed to me so much!

    Stephen Hawking stated that energy cannot die! That it can only be transformed into another source of energy. Therefore, human beings cannot die either, they are transformed into another source of energy.

    Ms. Hawking undoubtedly bears his namesake for good reason! She is bridging the gap between science and faith!

    I did read about the idea, of there being 2 seperate groups of others. I thought the idea was intriguing. I like the ‘school of thought’ that there could possibly be a division of the group. I definitely see that Richard ‘marches’ to the tune of his own drummer, and it wouldn’t surprise me if this were true.

    I think part of the reason we are so puzzled, is that there doesn’t seem to be a clear definition of who ‘the others’ are within their own group!

    Although I know this isn’t your every day type of theory, I hope people will respond with their thoughts.

    I designed the theory for people to explore the elements of science and faith together, as opposed to being completely seperate issues, with no bearing on the other.

  5. ‘Eye’ like this, ‘eye’ really do…

    Seriously though, this is a great thought and combining in the science and faith elements of Lost are a perfect way to reach out to this as being a true bond between the two in an older religion and society.
    You know from my theory “A unique marriage proposal from science to religion” that I am all in on the secret societies in Lost.
    But to bring it together like this is fantastic.
    As for the two groups of others, I think that Charles and possibly elloise could be the reason this appears to be. I am thinking that at some point, Charles did something to tick Richard off, and he maybe used Ben to rid the island of Widmore.
    Great thoughts here Dabs, and I will be back for more on this, just a little busy at the moment.
    I will say, the symbol of the ‘eye’ represents so much, and different things to different people…
    Man, someone who is extremely intelligent and who saw this as a possibility of coming to play long ago, ought to use that as their gravatar for the site…that would be genius!
    Great job Dabsi, Im going to try to help your cause, Ill be back with more…

  6. Thanks AES! I actually stumbled onto the link between the ancient Egyptian culture and Osiris, and the deeper meaning, in biblical terms with Adam & Eve and the serpant. I had not brought the two ideas together before.

    We have been on ‘the same page’ about the ‘secret societies’ since your theory, “A Unique Marriage Proposal”.

    There simply has to be some connection between the ancient beliefs and modern day beliefs to make the story believable and something which people could easily relate to.

    I would seriously like to know what people think about Richard Alpert’s statements about Ben losing his innocence. What are people interpreting his statement to mean? I doubt he is referring to Ben losing his virginity! lol So, let’s get some thoughts going!

    Also, we have seen so many references to the symbolic ‘eye’ being shown and referenced throughout the story. Many people have made mention of it. You can’t say it hasn’t been a focus on Lost.

    AES, I think some great genius with tremendous foresight and insight already used the ‘eye’ as their avatar! Oh, right I know who that guy is!

    Glad you liked the theory!

  7. I love this DABs, makes a lot of sense and would begin to put the overall arc of the story into perspective. Could the smoke monster be some way of harnessing energy from those who die???? I also cannot believe so many people have read a Brief history of time. It ain t the easiest read in the world!!!! ” groups of others sounds about right but i dont believe Richard is with the others all the time, my concern is how does he get about. He is bloody everywhere. It s as if he can see …..oh.

  8. although its not the easiest read, it may be the easiest in comparison to other books dealing with the same subject matter. hawking does a good job simplifying complex physics topics

  9. Highbrow….you brought up the Dharma booth video, and I had some thoughts based on that. I haven’t been sure where to share them it seems that theories should be based on the canon (show) but I will share them here.

    In the Orchid orientation video, it is said, “For a brief instant the animal will seem to disappear, when in reality…”, then the video stops.

    In the Pierre Change video, it appears that Daniel is recording a message from Pierre through a “pinhole” to the future (30 years to be exact).

    My speculation is that Jacob (who I think is Sawyer) “bunny hops” (couldn’t resist) via the Orchid station to a point pretty far into the future. Now, he couldn’t just hop to 2007 because Ben destroyed the Orchid vault (so Sawyer couldn’t reappear there). So, I think that Daniel tells Pierre that Dharma is going to be wiped out but they have to get it reinstated. In the meantime (the 30+ years that passes while “Jacob” waits for his exit), what happens to Jacob. If I may finish the Orchid orientation message, “for a brief instant the “animal” seems to disappear, when in reality…..he exists outside of our dimensions of space and time as we know it, but can communicate with “special” individuals via dreams and hallucinations.”

    So, what is so imperative that would make them want the Dharma Initiative to come back and why take such a big risk (assuming Jacob would die if they didn’t)? I think that the time skippers realize that something that has happened on the island will cause humanity to become infertile. I think that the scan that Juliet looked at (of the 26 year old with the 70 year old uterus) is what is going to happen to all women in the future because of something that happens on that island in the past. So, they have to contact the future to warn them or get them to try to find a way to stop it. God Help Us All.

  10. GK21, thanks for your input! I definitely put a lot on the line, to submit this for speculation.

    I definitely think the ‘smoke monster’ has something to do with harnessing the energy of certain people. I am unsure and unclear of what the purpose might be.

    My only thought on this would be that it is for ‘the island’,

    Yes, I am also pleasantly surprised by the number of people who are “Hawking” fans!

  11. ekolocation, The other thing that “Hawking” does so brilliantly, is not to discount the religious and spiritual aspects of his work.

    My first reading of his work, inspired me to delve into many other subjects, with a better understanding of them!

  12. HurleyBird, you should have posted this as a theory!

    I love your thoughts about not actually disappearing. I actually agree that when this occurs, they are existing elsewhere in the space/time continuum. They are in a different dimension.

    I made this connection when Sawyer sees Kate assisting Claire with the birth of Aaron. I also attribute ‘the whispers’ to this too.

    I like your ideas regarding the pregnancies. Maybe we have been searching for a larger meaning, when it is staring us right in the face! Nothing would put an end to all humanity faster than women, being unable to bear children.

    Good ideas!

  13. PS: One more thought about Richard Alpert and his disappearing acts.

    Does he actually disappear, or, does he become something or someone else?

    If anyone who lives outside of the space/time dimensions, it would have to be Richard Alpert. This is why, IMO, he doesn’t appear to age!

  14. So, the DI is back (in the future) and rebuilt the Orchid (travel machine) this would explain some things.

    Richard Alpert is working with the future DI and that is why he appears to never age. He just uses the machine to pop up at important points in the past. He doesn’t answer to Elie or Widmore or Ben or Locke. He answers to the future DI.

    Widmore to Ben. I didn’t kill her, you did. Ben exists in the future and is in with the new DI. At this point in time, he does not know this, but in the future, he will tell Keamy to kill his daughter so that he will be motivated to kill Penny. Which I think is what will get Des back to the island (which has to happen).

    That is why files on losties is so extensive. The future DI has had people watching the losties very, very closely. Possibly even manipulating their lives. Libby was in the mental hospital because she is in with future DI. She was acting like a patient to watch Hurley.

  15. HurleyBird, I love your take on Richard Alpert! That is a fantastic idea and answers why he never appears to age! It has nothing to do with time. Very plausible!

    I like the idea that Richard Alpert may not be 100% an ‘other’. That would explain, his sometimes lackadaisical attitude towards ‘the others’ apparent leaders! He is on a solo mission!

    I think it’s fair to say, that both Ben and Widmore have extensive contacts on the outside world, working for them.

    I have always subscribed to the notion, that ‘the losties’ were selected for a specific purpose. I feel that as much as John Locke was being observed his whole life, by Richard Alpert, that everyone else was being observed as well.

    I also believe that certain people and situations were introduced into their lives, in order to manipulate their futures, so they eventually ended up on ‘the island’. But, in addition, in a way they were intended to be. Meaning, that there identities and characters were moulded in such a way, they would be destined to fulfill whatever roles that were expected of them.

  16. Lmao, supporting evidence. Pictures maybe? I can’t post a picture. Trust me on this you are wrong. That is a mayan style pyramid. This isn’t a topic of debate, it’s a topic of fact. Egyptians built pyramids and temples in ways that contrast with Mayan architecture. The obvious composition of the pyramid is a material that was never used in egyptian pyramids. You can tell from the texture and color. The shape of the temple is most obviously mayan. There is not a single egyptian temple built above ground, they tended to be under pyramids, near the burial chambers. Mayans almost exclusively built above ground, although that was obvious due to the moisture, but the Egyptians weren’t required to built the temples below ground only, it just was an architectural choice.

  17. Maybe the temple isn’t either on (Mayan or Egyptian). It the theory of a time traveling future DI holds water, then whatever they are doing (for whatever reason) has to invisible to the losties. For whatever reason, it would seem that the future DI doesn’t want to be known. So, lets say, you are from the future and you build a compound where you are working on advanced technology, but there is a danger that people from the past could stumble upon it. How do you cover that up? “Build up” a myth based on ancient civilizations. That is why Charlotte was there. What possible use could an anthropologist be on a mission to capture a bad guy (Ben). She would be able to tell immediately that the remnants were bogus. I think that Miles is in on this by the way. Talks to dead people my butt. But that could be the ruse that they are using to feed the Losties the info they need to know.

    I am going to post this as its own theory. The thoughts that you guys have are really feeding my mind. Namaste and good luck.

  18. Yeah it could be neither, with a hint of Mayan architecture or form, but the last thing it is is Egyptian. And the pyramid looks ridiculously fake, but I can’t tell if that is on purpose or just the material they used to make the set. But the scene with the fully constructed statue, and knowing that the statue was only a foot now means that it was very likely made in the time of the pyramids. I should also point out that the statue seemed egyptian. Only the egyptians are known for making monument/statues of that size, so maybe both races had a part in this, or a progenetor race.

  19. OMGLOST, yes, I did ask you to support your claims! I don’t know why you deemed this to be unreasonable, and or why you wouldn’t be willing to comply.

    Given the writers have confirmed that we are talking about ancient Egyptian ruins, statue and heiroglyphs, this is what I and others are basing our statements upon.

    As my theory, is actually addressing Ben’s loss of innocence, amongst other things, I certainly do not want to get ‘off track’.

    Thanks for your comments.

  20. OMGLOST, the Temple isn’t a pyramid at all. It’s just a building. Looks like a square building to me. As for the building materiel I’m sure whoever built it just used what they found on the island. Mayans built things the way they did because of where they were building. The Egyptians built things they way they did because of where they were building. Whoever built the temple on the island built it they way they did because they were building on a tropical island. I don’t think the shape of the building or its status in relation to the ground really has any bearing on who built it.

    The symbols on the outside of the building are Egyptian. The Mayans didn’t use Egyptian symbols on their temples, did they?

  21. HurleyBird,
    I think I read a book by Orson Scott Card that was about something similar to your theory… I don’t remember what the title was though… I’ll look it up. And I think there was a Star Trek TNG episode that was about something similar as well…

  22. I more of a X-Files, Stargate fan.

    Do you think that the reason that dying it the last thing Locke remembers is because he downloaded his memories to the resurrection hub. He is actually a toaster and the temple is the Opera House.

  23. That is certainly plausible. I suppose it could be because it was the last thing that happened while he was alive but that’s pure speculation on my part.

  24. Ok, Im going to start by saying OMGLOST, you are incorrect. I dont know if Dabsi is incorrect, but you are. To walk into someone elses theory, and say they are wrong, that “There is not a single egyptian temple built above ground, they tended to be under pyramids, near the burial chambers”, may be correct, but only the part where you say the word “tended”, meaning most of the time. Please google…
    “temple of Amun-Re at Karnak”…you will see, by doing research, as Dabs has, that the temple IS IN FACT above ground, and is one of the most ancient places in Egypt. The most visited IN FACT, with the exception of the pyramids. It has plenty of pictures that if necessary, I will post a seperate theory in fun, on this specific temple in egypt, created by Egyptians, or am more than willing to search for 30 more seconds to find another temple or two to back up this theory if necessary…let me know if I should. If it will make you feel better about the fact that this is a well thought out theory regarding the temple in Lost being in relation to an Egyptian temple, I am more than happy to do so, and you can prove ME wrong there…

    And Dabsi, hello…
    I personally feel Lost relates to many different religions and cultures as well, meaning not everything is going to be Egyptian…but this is easily the best stab at the temple, much like your smoke monster theory, that I have read to date.
    Great research on everything, I can tell you put a lot of time into this one. The “eye”, the “eye”, I love it.
    Sorry for repeating, this is the first I really got to give this theory real time to sink in.

    I would like to add a few things to this…if its alright with you…

  25. AES, you know all of your thoughts are welcome by me! I am always willing to discuss any and all aspects with you.

    I didn’t expect to find a connection between the Eye of Horus and Adam & Eve. That was a total shocker!

    It is easy to see that there are numerous references to various religions. What is somewhat surprising are the actual connections amongst them.

    One other interesting aspect I discovered while researching this information is, The Church of Satan supports The ‘All Seeing Eye’. Quite fascinating!

    PS: thanks for your support!

  26. HurleyBird, already answered! Thank you for your comment!

    I hope your theory is approved soon. I can’t wait to read it!

    Also, if you want a unique read, please check out My Smoke Monster theory. You might like it!

  27. hurleybird, like your thoughts on richard. i too suspect he’s not what he seems and is either from the very past or the future. with the whole temple thing going on, i wonder if he could also be a mummy lol

  28. Thanks never necessary from you, I got your back.

    I have a mini theory to add really, I guess I should have said that, and that is why I am asking, I’ll keep it short, but it slides perfectly into this thought.
    I have seen a few of the ‘Egyptian’ themed theories, and was waiting for the right one to bombard with this info…should have known it would be yours..

    Bear with me though, I would like to take some time to gather the right information, it seems a good theorist needs all the evidence or examples possible, in this time of doubt here, and you know how I like to be accurate ;]

  29. lost#s, did you see my ‘fun’ theory of who Jacob is?
    I figure you will appreciate something like that..
    sorry Dabsi, dont mean to interrupt your theory, but my ‘fun’ got knocked down the list, and I need to make people aware, lol…please dont be mad for my solicitation here…

  30. AES, I know you do! Even when I don’t know exactly what it is that you are doing, I know that I will. lol I have full and complete trust in your judgment!

  31. I want to take this back to the Richard thing. We all naturally assume Richard has been about for a million years or so. Could it be the reason he knows where to be and more importantly when to be because he is in fact from the future. Think about it if time travel is possible then people from the future (that sounds so horrible, i know) will be more advanced and will obviously have a better understanding of time related issues. Does Richard know where to be because of past history and is now trying to course correct because he knows the bigger picture. The fertility spreading amongst the rest of the world i like very much. Perhaps thats one of the reason Dharma are initiated.
    It almost as if he has an all seeing….. ahhh!!!!

  32. Just a thought:
    I’m a long time reader here, i rarely post as i’m more into reading other peoples thoughts and forming my own opinions. It is very rare that somebody has a truly unique theory and most tend to re-jumble the same information.
    The site was brilliant at first, a fine replacement for the old lost theories site, with lots of original ideas. However it is now becoming a place where, rather than discussing lost, people prefer to flex their academic knowledge regardless of it’s relevance to lost.
    Surely discussing the link between adam and eve in the bible and the eye of horus is overkill?
    On a similar point to ontopofoldsmokey there is a lot of ego rubbing goes on here and you often have to read through ten posts of the old “you’re the best”, “no you are”, “i love your theories”, “i love yours more” crap. There is nothing wrong with flirting, but does it need to be in a lost forum?
    Sorry for the rant but this is increasingly becoming a site for a few people to share their opinions and congratulate each other whilst ignoring any evidence that may lay waste to their own theories. dabiatchishere and AES’ attack on OMGLOST further up the post is clear evidence for this.

    “To walk into someone elses theory, and say they are wrong”
    Isn’t that the whole idea of disussing theories, which you guys so love. The guy/girl believed your take on the temple was incorrect and for suggesting that had 3 people on his back in a second. One of the first major lines of this theory is “The

  33. Dabs don’t be sad. I still like A.E.S. that wont change. But when he tries to pull people off post’s to go to his it looks desperate and put’s the person he is asking in a bad position. Not to mention it is disrespectful. I do not dwell on things, But every now and then I speak up. I like to go at this show from all angles so that we can include everybody. You can’t tell people that you have proof and try to shove it down there throat it is impossible. That has helped me in my Faith. I use to try to go around trying to save everyone. But that’s not my Job. My job is to give out information and try to be a good example and listener. The saving part is up to Good and each persons Free Will. I can’t change peoples minds only they can. No worries Dabs things will only get better between him and I.

    And amrahd I see your point, But what I think you should remember is that A.E.S. and Dabs have been here from the beginning. They have great theories up and they have positive comments always for others. This is not just off the top of there heads. They have to do a lot of research and I am sure it takes up a lot of there time. Just remember these two have been here since the beginning and helped build this place so you just might thank them for that in your next comment.

  34. amrahd, I see you took the time in the middle of the night to share your personal opinion about me, and not my theory, which is well researched, well written and strictly Lost related, as are ALL of my theories!

    Any theory I write is based upon Lost and nothing else. Yet, you say that I and others are flexing their academic knowledge! I have the right to post what I like.

    Let me be the first to tell you, that I write theories that would appeal to myself first. If they happen to resonate and appeal to somebody else, that is what my intentions are and I have succeeded in illustrating my point and sharing my story.

    You are telling me what you think is overkill in my theory and how it should have been written! You must be the expert on theory writing! Is this YOUR site? And are you speaking for the members? The same members that respond to the theories you seem to despise! No, you are not. You are somebody that for whatever reason sees fit to sit behind the scenes and then comes out and makes personal attacks.

    You are right about one thing! This site is open to everyone and to ALL peoples thoughts. So, if it’s alright with you, I will continue to share my thoughts, ideas, opinions and theories with the people who enjoy them, in a manner that I see fit!

    If you don’t like them, you don’t have to read them! Nor, do you have to comment to them, unless it’s Lost related.

    Now, you have shared your all important PERSONAL opinion, (un-related to Lost, I might add), I’ll get back to the business of theorizing, commenting, etc.

  35. we apparently are not people. we are strictly theorists, and there are rules to being a theorist. you cannot have a personality, or interact on friendly terms with other theorists. you may only state facts and evidence without personality. do not break these rules, or ben will exact his revenge by killing your daughter

  36. To All Members: The above comment made by amrahd, are the exact methods that were employed by the individual who brought LT to its knees and closed that site down!

    Let’s not fall for the same old ‘schtick’ again on this site!

    This personal commentary was approved by me, the theorist!

  37. Wow amrahd, poor form. OMGLOST came on and made a statement not based in fact and others (myself included) were quick to point that out. AES will confirm for you that I am no fan of the “I am right” or “you are wrong” statements. They do not lend anything to the discussion and they discourage debate. OMGLOST has no credentials that we know about so it’s important that he back his statements up with facts. As I pointed out his statement wasn’t even well thought out. It was easily dismissed without even doing research. AES later easily dismissed it more thoroughly with minimal fact checking.

    If you read on here you’ve probably also noticed that I’m rarely the recipient of “great thoughts!” or “OMG, you are such a super awesome theorist guy!” comments… I tend to just skip those comments and jump down to the Lost stuff. You see, I realize that there is no requirement here to drop your personality in order to post on this site and that

  38. Let’s not turn this site into 🙂

    I don’t want to take sides and don’t want to be perceived as having “favourites” on this site, so I’ll just say to whoever it concerns that there is no need for the hostility.

    We come here to theorise and along the way make friends – that’s what makes it a good community. There’s no need for the uneccessary insults.

    Let’s start a fresh shall we? 🙂

  39. Horace…or Horus…because I believe there is an Egyptian myth that Horus lost one of his eyes, or his ‘eye’, and had it returned to him by the gods…

  40. Dabs, I beg of you…stand up, and tell ’em…”Dont tell me what I cant do!”
    Keep being yourself, and keep the well researched educated theories coming!

  41. Btw..I would like to add, that I disagree with highbrow, probably more than anyone else here…Our theories and thoughts vary, and we argue constantly on almost every subject…but at the end of the day, I respect him for many reasons, that go beyond theorizing on Lost, even if this is how I know this ‘highbrow’ character.
    There are very few here I enjoy debating/discussing with other than him. We both shoot sly remarks, and undermine each others thoughts at times…but
    there is a mutual respect, even in heated debates, that allows me to feel this way.
    I would hope he feels the same, and anyone else under these situations as well…
    I am done discussing these things here, thank you to everyone who complies with everyones theories, and shows respect.
    Anyone I have offended, I am sorry, and a simple please dont do that, or please dont comment on my theories will keep me away.

  42. AES, I couldn’t have a headed debate with someone I didn’t respect. If I didn’t respect you I’d probably just write you and your theories off…

  43. AES, highbrow is right. I am a little like Paula Abdul. I guess I prefer to see the ‘positive’ in people and things, as opposed to the negative. I believe there is enough of that in the world, already.

    I have the utmost respect for both of you, and your ability to debate in a civilized manner. It brings a lot of great thoughts and ideas to the theories and to the site. In addition, to some well needed humour!

    I have only known you to be kind, generous, helpful and respectful, and I commend you for your ability to remain calm at all times.

    highbrow, you know I love you more than my luggage, babe! lol Keep on, keeping on!

  44. Dabs,

    I have read your theory a few times now, and then I get distracted by the other stuff that tends to get me fired up and yelling at my computer screen pointlessly.

    My lack of comment on this has simply been to exercise some self control. (Even now I want to start pointing a few non-Lost-related things out to someone…yes, I like to debate and argue many a thing…)

    ANY WAY.

    I appreciate your research on particular subjects that I know very little about. I’m not the physicist, scientist or historian, especially of various religions, but I do know a bit about faith and the Bible. The reason I think it’s worth considering what you have written out is because it is obvious when watching Lost that the writers have pulled a TON of elements together to weave them into characters – both their nature and their backstories – and the island – especially since it is a character with a nature and a backstory, too.


  45. Dabs,

    I have read your theory a few times now, and then I get distracted by the other stuff that tends to get me fired up and yelling at my computer screen pointlessly.

    My lack of comment on this has simply been to exercise some self control. (Even now I want to start pointing a few non-Lost-related things out to someone…yes, I like to debate and argue many a thing…)

    ANY WAY.

    I appreciate your research on particular subjects that I know very little about. I’m not the physicist, scientist or historian, especially of various religions, but I do know a bit about faith and the Bible. The reason I think it’s worth considering what you have written out is because it is obvious when watching Lost that the writers have pulled a TON of elements together to weave them into characters – both their nature and their backstories – and the island – especially since it is a character with a nature and a backstory, too.

    What I think is important about what you have written is where the crux of the story is headed – yes, we will see an incident of epic proportions and yes, we have to account for a reconciliation of “timelines” but, whatever ‘war’ is coming HAS to be about the sides that have more to do with faith and science…destiny/free will…change or no change…;)

    The island miracles can not be discounted, but the interesting thing about miracles throughout history is that there is ALWAYS an attempt to discount or explain their existence or occurrence on something else. We spent the last four seasons listening to Locke/Jack debate this, but it sure seems like it is coming to a head now that we have time ‘issues’ at play for all the characters.

    I’m rambling on and probably not making much sense. All I’m saying is that what you’ve presented, no matter how much it is ‘dead on right’ (like Alpert the ‘High Priest’ doesn’t necessarily matter at this point) – it’s the greater meaning of such groups, people, and issues at hand that are of real significance for where we’re headed in a (possible) ‘resolution’ by show’s end.

  46. kimberly, thanks for your comment, and I apologize on behalf of some of the comments which were made, that were non-Lost related. I understand how you feel, though.

    I realize that whatever back-story the writers are going to give us, has to be cohesive and not be too contrived and/or so convoluted that it confuses people even more.

    This is one idea that has ‘flow’, and is not all over the place. The writers would have no difficulty tying in these elements if, in fact that is the direction they take.

    I don’t think too many of us are experts in these areas, but a ‘little research goes a long way’.

  47. No need to apologize! If I actually said what my temper wanted to say, then I would be ultimately needing to apologize to others. I’ve just decided not to engage in it…

    I’ll read your posts any day. Thanks for putting time into them.

  48. Well, If you really want me to write long pages of explanations, fine. This isn’t a site that requires us to write in form that you would see in a scientific journal. This is a sight of theories and claims, if everyone had to form their opinions and then back their claims with scientific evidence, this site would get pretty boring, at least to those that aren’t so devoted with the workings of lost. It sometimes as if people are arguing the theory “what is life” or “is bigfoot really real?” This is a show and should be treated a little more lightly, at least in my opinion, not in everyones though. In response to the southpark avatar fellow. The Egyptian writing on the walls? Did honestly not see it. Egyptian Heiroglyphics can resemble Mayans in several ways (Ps I’m not backing that up. Thats just common sense, look at the two forms, it’s not like comparing latin to egyptian or japanese to english.) I also am not apparently as devoted as the OP, whom says he heard the writers comment that it was Egyptian, in which case I stand corrected. I guess I base my ideas off of simply watching the show, and not neccessarily blogging it or reading what the writers have to say from time to time.

  49. lol kimberly, I wondered why it seemed like you stopped in mid-sentence! I am glad to have read the remainder of your comment. And, no you are not rambling, it is a great well thought comment.

    I totally agree with you on the time-line issues in addition to where the story is headed in terms of addressing the faith vs. science dilemma, that we all know will be addressed near the conclusion of Lost.

    And, this was precisely one of the points why I posted this theory. It was to show that these aspects can and will be addressed. If not in this fashion, it will be in a way that is satisfying.

    I like to make people think! Clearly, you did just that! Your comments, made this post, completely worthwhile.

    Thank-you for posting your thoughts!

  50. Hey Kim, I was just wondering… had you considered at all in what way Kate might lift something really heavy over her head to support this theory? Like maybe if Kate went back in time she could help build the temple by lifting the rocks with her super shoulder strength?

  51. OMG. I just spent around a half hour making a post that had evidence backing up my claim. I just put several sites adresses as my sources that led to my opinions. And I click submit… My fschools internet apparently disconnected. I lost about 2 pages (microsoft word-length) of a post. We have a thing called Nevis Agent that for some worthless reason makes us sign onto the internet randomly, multiple times while we are using. I can’t, don’t have the time to re-write it. I showed pictures of the shapes and forms of egyptian pyramids versus mayan and the lost pyramid. I concluded that the form was closest to mayan at first glance, and that looking closer, things such as writing on the outside of the temple hint at egyptian. I said overall, there is obviously mayan and egyptian influence in the lost pyramid, whether that was intentional or accidental by the authors. I also mentioned that I am no expert, but I’m not one to randomly talk about something I no nothing about, although I do joke around a lot. And I concluded by saying that if the writers said this, that you are right and I stand corrected.

  52. OMGLOST, thanks for your efforts. I think you made yourself clear, as to why you arrived at your conclusions. I guess it’s just a case of ‘splitting hairs’ on that particular issue.

    No harm done and no hard feelings. I do put a lot of research into all of my theories, so I can stand behind them and substantiate them. That is not to say that this theory will prove to be 100% correct, either. I do believe certain aspects of it might be very well be true. And, much like Lost, there is a ‘bigger story’ within it.

    Thanks again for your efforts and your comments!

  53. Kim, I do what I can. I can only imagine though that at some point the Pasties will find themselves in a situation that they can only escape if Kate can walk a mile on her hands. I have no idea what that situation might be but I’m sure they won’t be looking to Hurley to get them out of it.

  54. egyptian or mayan, does it really matter? do you think the researchers for the show go into that much depth for detail? as for the texture and colour… its a set, its probably polystyrene and cardboard. its a tv show!

  55. Good I see you, we need to talk…
    Im trying to put something together here, and I dont know how much sense it makes, but after reading your theory, I cant stop thinking about something said in season one…help!

  56. Ok, I just told people on NMBs post, which is great and “inspired by Kim as well”, she was over on my post doing a beautiful job of connecting smokey and Locke…and she said something…or as I said there didnt say something…that if she would have said, I probably wouldnt have even thought of this…

  57. Kim is telling all these things about how Locke and Smokey correlate, and Im loving it…

    SO everything she is saying is making so much sense, and I thought, how could this all relate somehow with dabs Egytian themed, and Smoke Monster theory….then I saw it…

    “Come Season 2, on island, Locke stares down Smokey and says he

  58. AES, you hit the nail on the head! It was not only Locke’s comment about ‘the eye’ of ‘the island’, but ALL of the references to actual ‘eyes’ which have been made over and over again!

    Jack’s eye, the eye in the cabin, the false eye found where ‘the tailies’ were.

    There are numerous references to ‘the eye’ right from the beginning of Lost. I could not place my finger on it, until I started researching the subject.

    As I mentioned in my theory, I was stunned how it all tied together. Through every religion from ancient to christianity, modern-day, including satanism.

    I don’t make this stuff up! lol That is what convinced me I was right. When I saw the exact verse about Adam & Eve being tempted by the serpent, and why they were punished, basically for ‘seeing’, I knew I had hit on something. I think some reference has to be there, IMO.

  59. Locke seems to know whats going on…or at least what is supposed to be going on…if you buy into John Locke, which I believe everyone I mentioned above does…

    Could this have anything to do with his “knowing” or “seeing” as refered to in the book “Alternate Realities” that young Ben gave Sayid earlier…or later, depending how you look at it?

    Seeing is described as utilizing the energy from the universe in every way possible.
    The islands core or heart, contains an infinite energy source. Could this energy, somehow relate to Smokey, who in turn, may have passed something on to Locke.

    I dont know, Im trying to piece together this monstrosity, and Im going crazy…Thank you ladies, for driving me nuts ;]

  60. Now there you go! In my research, I came upon more information about the creation of the Universe, and it speaks to what you just mentioned.

    I cannot explain it, because it is very hard to understand, let alone for me to relate it in laymans terms. I’m just not that smart! lol

  61. Nice catch on the exact phrasing about the eye AES. I knew there was more, it was just feeling based, not knowledge based.

    Great connection to bring it here to Dabs’ post.

    I have to think for a minute. There’s something more that I think needs brought up.

  62. serpant…how does the smoke monster appear to glide…I could do this all day now….Temptation of retribution, is given by the smoke monster to Eko, if that was Smokey, posing as his brother… Would the smoke monster not killed him if he confessed? Would it not know…he was lying?What happened to John, was the only sign of mercy given by the monster…the only time we saw him, regardless of the scenario, that he wasnt attacking, or stalking in a way. It was truly the real non violent act that we saw smokey do, unless you count when he showed a reflection of sort to Eko earlier.
    …But that didnt really work out too well in the end.

  63. , Here is part of what I researched! I understand it, but can’t lay it out in terms. See what you make of it!

    “service to self” (negative) polarity emerged due to the free will extension choice made by late sub-logoi (stars). Early sub-logoi, close to the centers of galaxies (Logoi[M]), chose “lack of free will foundations” and did not extend free will to sub-sub-logoi (beings) “simply because they had not conceived of it”. So that the only possible polarity for beings was “service to others” as chosen by sub-logoi.[N] However, since “entities were overwhelmingly aware of the Creator in their selves and divinely happy, and the security was total”, “no love was terribly important; no pain terribly frightening; no effort, therefore, was made to serve for love or to benefit from fear”. “Each other-self was seen to be the Creator and no other-self seemed to be more the Creator than another”. “Third and fourth density cycles were extremely long, entities repeated third density cycles many times over” and “lacked what was considered the crucial ingredient; polarization”. “As the evolution progressed outward from the center of the galaxy, the efficiency of free will in intensifying the experience of the Creator by the Creator was discovered”. The first tool devised by late sub-logoi to extend free will was placing (through experimenting and refining by evolution) a semipermeable “veil” between conscious (“Matrix of the mind”: The Magician) and unconscious (“Potentiator of the mind”: The High Priestess) minds of sub-sub-logoi, that would be in effect when they are in incarnated position in space/time.

  64. AES, If we look at the smoke monster as being The Guardian of the Underworld, it is he who judges who will gain safe passage through to the other side!

    Not all souls are essentially allowed in!

  65. that is my understanding AES. It seems to be that from the moment the Universe was created this began, than travelled down to the ancient civilizations.

    I wrote about the Egyptians worshipped ‘light’. This is all they had to go upon. They based their beliefs on astronomy and stars!

    Then you see how it proceeds to trickle down throughout religion, to modern-day beliefs.

    But, almost every religion has this faith base within it to some extent.

    I am not any expert, but I can only tell you about what I researched. It’s quite fascinating. So, the writers could very well introduce ‘space’ aspects, into the story, and this thought process would still apply!

  66. One thing about Smokey passing something onto Locke…I think what we’ve seen in Locke since his encounter is really critical.

    Locke has “known” quite a bit of things: when it will start raining (nature/environment), the healing power of the island, and even a sense for where/”when” they are located on the island. He was concerned for what was happening to the island when the island was flashing, and he was concerned (albeit, a little less) for the people who were flashing with it. This is when his “savior complex” kinda kicked in – up until that point, he wasn’t so much about saving people as much as he seemed (to me) to be about the connection to the island and ‘communing’ with it in a sense.

    The big issue near the end (with 815ers on island) was what was “supposed” to happen, specifically with Jack.

    Borderline rambling, sorry.

    My point is this. Locke has known stuff, but he has not appeared to know all. If he had, ultimately, he would have known that he, not Ben, should have turned the wheel first.

    The scene in the well with Christian getting Locke to understand his errors was critical. Locke had a “Garden of Gesthemane” experience, where some believe that Christ wrestled with knowing his ultimate purpose (sacrificial death) and the strength to fulfill it. Locke had to figure out what was being asked of him, and to make the choice to turn the wheel and figure out what would happen from there. He didn’t have it all figured out…he was taking ‘steps of faith’, one after the other.

    And when it came down to it off-island, Locke was ready to give up. Again, he only had a portion of the picture, not knowing if he had made a difference.

    I think these are key elements of Locke’s experience that could ultimately be a parallel for Ben. (As we saw, he ‘claims’ he came to the island for judgment. This sounds like a man who knew he made choices, versus being ALL knowing about what was SUPPOSED to happen.)

    All these references could mean nothing.

    Or it could be clues that the interaction, vision that Smokey gives, is incomplete.

    I have more to say on this. I need another minute. And obviously, this comment is ridiculously long!!!

  67. I’m enjoying your excange guys, but am totally confused by the sub-globual stuff. Does that mean….since we sub-sub globs (incarnated in space/time, corpeal) that we have this veil. Those closer to the creater are essentially one with the creater, i.e. at peace, therefore they have no need for free will because they are perfectly content to serve not themselves.

  68. kimberly, yes you are correct about Locke. He was, in the truest sense of the word taking incredible leaps of faith!

    He did not question this, he just knew he would find his way! He placed his trust, implicitly with what ‘the island’ was showing him, and went on from there.

    The mistakes he made in the traditional sense, were human! But, he placed his faith in a much bigger thing, in ‘the island’. His is what is called as ‘blind faith’.

  69. Dabsi…not just light…Egyptians worshipped the sun.
    All the names researched, in the beginning of the show, and the one nobody payed attention to, may have been in front of our faces the whole time.
    How good would it be, if the statue turned out to be Sun…
    *everything above this line is 100% serious…below…50/50*

    Sun turns the wheel, they all end up in some ancient Egyptian culture, and Jin sees Sun for the first time…in a 50 foot statue, only to learn she has been there for quite some time, and has become a ‘god’ if you will, for appearing out of nowhere…

  70. HurleyBird, all human beings have a ‘veil’, because we are not supposed to know or see, ‘all there is’.

    God did not want us to! He wanted us to be made to serve others, not the self!

    You got it perfect!

  71. Dabs, “guardian of the underworld, not all souls are let in…”

    This could be interesting because in a way, perhaps Smokey reveals part of where you “end up” for lack of better term at the moment. So some who get a vision for where they are going to go, then ultimately end up making choices that they think will get them there.

    I don’t know if that makes sense…

  72. lol HurleyBird, you got it right! You lose your innocence!

    That is my theory!

    AES, you may have it right about the Sun!

    My research says Ra, and others such as the Sun!

  73. OOOOOOHHHHH…Kimberly. I love that. It is so “Taken”. Remember the little Alien kid who shows people how they are going to die!!!!

  74. The Sun connection makes it especially interesting considering WHO she was left with as well as WHEN/WHERE she was left while everyone else returned to a time where they had distinct purposes.

    She’s with Locke/Ben while they are about to face off…

  75. kimberly, according to ancient religious beliefs, that people would be resurrected on earth, once they passed through the Underworld. Those that did, had to be worthy!

    Also, a sidenote. All organs with the exception of the heart were removed from the bodies. They were placed in glass jars, just like in Jacob’s cabin!

    Remember that? Everyone wondered what they had in them!

  76. You could be onto something with Sun, and why she flashed differently and who she is with, AES.

    I hope that makes you guys more of a believer in my thoughts, here.

    I found it interesting to say the least. And, this could easily be explained, and it could also place Richard Alpert, as someone from another Universe.

    The writers have full liberty to do as they wish with this in mind!

  77. Okay, bringing up Richard in this takes me to freaky Juliet.

    She knows Richard is *really* old.

    And, she somehow *knows* that the Others can help Ben. (Complete with FREAK facial expression to match…)

    Not to overcomplicate this, because I think the Ben/Locke/Smokey thing is serious – but it will be interesting to see what becomes of Juliet’s knowledge…

  78. AES, you have gotten it all right! I certainly hope you will write a theory on what you just stated!

    I really wanted to post a lot of information, but it was just so long, I didn’t even know where to begin!

    I am now passing the torch over to you, my friend! I know you will do it justice!

  79. Hurleybird, nice job!

    Btw..I like a little 50/50, Im a gambling man ;]
    …you have to live before you die…I may not be right, but at least I was brave enough to say it…or is it stupid enough?…either way…I said it.

  80. kimberly, I know Juliette knows something and I have always said that! But, I just can’t think too much about her right now!

    AES, that is what life is, Risk! Without it, there is no gain!

  81. Oh god…Ummm, yeah, Im not the most popular person here right now, and I dont think this is something that I want to take a chance at getting ruined….but to make it easy, there were several of us combined on this, and being the problems of late, I would say a ‘combined’ theory could serve purpose in a little unity on the site, not to mention it seems the rest of the season is headed in the direction of the same concept between the Losties and Sun, Locke, Ben, Des, and the Kids…
    Copy and paste anyone?

  82. AES, you feel that you are being looked down upon? I shudder to think!

    Do not allow the words of some, to take power over you!

    You post the theory.

    We all have different styles. I know both kimberly and HurleyBird could tackle some thoughts too! You guys divvy it up amongst yourselves!

    I did so much work on this, I need a break from it. I want you all to take from it what you can, and place some theories, based upon any of the information.

  83. I know what you mean, AES, but don’t be afraid. And I’m not worried if it doesn’t become an “official” theory on here. It might be worth having hidden in comments, for later reference, when it all happens…

    I’m slightly kidding…I love being right, but lately it seems there’s a lot of strange stuff popping up around here, and it’s most likely going to get buried beneath “Pixar’s Aliens vs. Monsters is the key to Lost” or something like that…

  84. You two have to stop! I only allow positivity into my world. I am like the smoke monster with the negative stuff! lol

    Start posting!

  85. Juliet…shes an idiot…Dont get me wrong, Kates more of an idiot, but Juliet knows she is being one and she still does it…At least I think she does, and is.

    First, the mark on her back. I do NOT think, or have I ever thought, that it was in any way, to identify her as a trader…if anything, it is to identify her as an other, or something along those lines, at some point.

    And, the conversation between John and Sawyer after John caught up with him and the other leftover losties, during time travel.
    Sawyer asked John who shot him. Juliet quikly interupted, and advised they move on…or hump Sawyer, or something like that…but regardless, wouldnt she want to know who shot John? He seemed more than willing to answer…but she didnt even let him try.
    I assume, she knew this, because the time when it took place could have easily been after she arrived on the island, and Ethan may have told Ben, who told…an idiot.
    I bet that she has some sort of deal or scheme worked out with Ben.
    Maybe she knew she was supposed to save him.
    Maybe she knew Ethan shot John.
    When they branded her, they made sure Jack saw it, and it hasnt been talked about since. She is a rat, like Ben. She may realize it, and actually be sorry, but I do think she knows a lot more than assumed by our Losties.

  86. I love what you say about Juliette, AES. I think you have her completely pegged!

    The mark is to identify her in some way, later on! I have never trusted her ‘sweet affability’.

    She has always been with Ben, IMO

  87. Anyway, I hope I provided you with some food for thought!

    I must turn in for the night, but please continue the conversation. I will catch up with it in the morning!

    Have a good night!

  88. AES….totally agree about Juliet, but then again I have gone through this with most of the characters. Like them, hate them, like them, hate them….feel that darn pendulum in freaky ladys church….but, if she did stop John from saying it was Ethan, what was the point. I don’t see how Sawyer knowing that would change anything. Sorry, said the c word.

  89. Yep. How do I emphasize that with some flair, so more like, Heck Yeah!


    Wouldn’t it be interesting to see the inside of Smokey’s temple and to see that mark?

    I trust Juliet about a fraction more than I trust Ben.

    So wait, seriously.

    I now wonder how many people have had Smokey encounters that deem them “an Other” forever.





  90. So, smokey didn’t smoke kate because Juliet was with her? Remember when they were in the rain, wrestling and had to hid in the trees. Didn’t smokey scan kate at some point? May be confusing two different scenes. It’s very late.

  91. Dont get me wrong, he tricked her to get her there, but there is something else between them…I know she was an other, but she uses her ‘Other’ skills way too much.
    She cares about who is around her, and always has to make someone feel sorry for her.
    I admit, there have been times when she suprised me, like letting the losties know the others were coming, which set up the shooting of the dynamite, and blowing up tents, and others getting killed…and she did shoot whats his face to get Kate, Sawyer, and Karl free…but…I just dont trust her…
    Of course I have another theory that Kate is actually Annie, and Juliet turns out to be the good guy, with Kate all along being on Bens side…but I am indecisive and over imaginative sometimes so who knows…

  92. No, not two different scenes, I think Dabs covers the ‘trees’ in relation to smokey in her ‘Smoke Monster’ theory…
    if you check Lostpedia…the reliable source of info that it is at times…I know…it says something regarding the trees as protection too.

  93. It makes sense in a Lost kind of way, that doesnt make sense at all…seriously.
    Kind of a twisted buddhist reincarnation/timelines crossing in a way, but not really/Locke is, and always was an other.
    Check it out, I was just referencing it in this combo theory Im trying to throw together…oh yeah..on that…

  94. I was not joking about the copy and paste…it seems kind of sloppy and lazy, but honestly, I want people to really see these thoughts as they developed…the way they came together by us using a joint effort…plus, I am writing an intro now, and cannot think for the life of me how to explain who said what without c&p…
    I was going to do a brief intro, reference NMB, and Dabs post, and copy and paste the important parts of our discussion here…what do you think…Or should I hold off, and try to put something cleaner together tomorrow?

  95. Sorry, I know I write sloppily sometimes here, but for important matters, Im kind of borderline OCD…I dont want to screw up a good theory, and the ‘writer’ in me is telling me to quit being lazy…

  96. I think Locke ‘knowing’ Smokey and even the objects have a tie in now. I’ve never been satisfied with conversation about why Richard gets mad at the knife.

    I think it would be incredibly interesting if we come to find out Richard’s ‘visits’ with young Locke occurred during significant on-island interactions that could include future Locke. Which might even include yet another Locke/Smokey interaction that ultimately gives even more credence to the “always” an Other line of thought.

    I’m looking forward to hearing this mishmashed conversation rolled together into something good and mind bending.

    WAIT! Lightbulb went off…

  97. Okay, lol I had to get out of bed to relay one more golden nugget!

    Now do you understand why Ben doesn’t care about a life, or even a hundred lives. Because in the grand scheme of things, it is minuscule!

    Please put together a clean copy! Tomorrow is just fine!

    Night again!

  98. I’ll help…in whatever way I can.

    I think we need to reference your Just A Theory post; NMB’s Smokey/Locke post and this post. Do you know how to link them in the intro the way NMB did?

    Some people will appreciate the history of the discussion, as you know…

    Okay anyway, I have another serious thought.

  99. Here’s my serious thought.

    IF in fact, Locke’s encounter with Smokey (either in Season 2 or in an event yet to be seen) has a similar affect on him the way the event CHANGED Ben…ALWAYS making Ben an Other…

    Do you see the proof, the connection that there are certain events that exist outside of the confines of the one fixed timeline, yet completely alter the timeline? The ALWAYS statement, combined with the ‘memory erased’ statement make for a very interesting connection between Smokey and allowances and variables within past/present/future?

    It’s almost like Smokey’s human counterpart is Desmond.

    It’s more than a memory thing…it’s borderline something bigger…I know it’s been mentioned before, but this connection feels right as leading us toward the alteration, undoing of certain circumstances…

  100. I’m nearly done with brilliant thoughts tonight anyway. And besides for you, it’s morning, right?

    This whole Locke/Smokey thing has been stirring around in me for awhile, so thanks for (finally – just teasing) picking up on it and stirring the pot with me (and now NMB!) I can’t wait to read it, but it will have to be tomorrow.

    Maybe Emzi can link the links if needed…

  101. Oh this makes me so happy! I can’t believe people actually started discussing this. I was pulling an all-nighter last night and had to take like an hour to think and write about this last night. I checked on this after my tests today and no one had commented on my theory or said anything else on this thread and I was so disappointed. But you guys didn’t let me down! I slept for a couple fo hours, came back, and this was the hot topic!

  102. BTW – I think the initials of “All Seeing Eye” is just way too close to “AES” 🙂

    So I too, had another thought before I try to sleep…I posted part of it back on NMB’s post.

    The other thing are these little odds and ends:

    – Juliet not only has crazy knowledge, but she has AVOIDED Richard during this ‘new’ time period and all the periods in which she was flashing.

    – Whatever Richard did to Ben in the Smoke Lair, shows that the manifestation of Smoke works with Richard. All these conversations about Smoke manifestations in seasons past are interesting to hold up in that light now. Am I going so far to say that Richard/Smokey are one and the same? Not yet, but then again, Jacob is Vincent, right? 😉

    – Locke’s picture of Smokey – did it have EYES? Can’t remember…

    I’m going to be thinking some more…my brain is working too fast on too little energy so nothing else I have typed makes sense. Now I’m really done.

  103. Ok, lol, I have this mess to put up…I swear, I really tried to make this look brilliant…but I am afraid copy and paste makes it look, well, crazy, lol….there are so many thoughts, wait until you see how long this is…if anybody wants anything edited or changed, speak up, but I have about 10 minutes of worth left in me before I rest…I may not get to edit until morning, but I would like this out there for the picking, before the show airs tomorrow.

  104. Wish we could see it…does it look like Daniel’s journal? 🙂

    Yes, I like the idea of it being up before the episode. Less is more…we can always copy and paste comments, too, to help maybe?

  105. Hi guys! Just had a chance to read up on everything I missed last night!

    Great thoughts from all. I am off to see the finished result as posted!

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