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What Lies in The Shadow of the Statue’.

We find out from Bram in this episode, that he and Ilana do not work for Charles Widmore. We also find out, that anyone who knows ‘what lies in the shadow of the statue’, will know the many mysteries and secrets to ‘the island’ and gain insight into themselves.

This is quite similar and reminiscent of The Great Sphinx of Giza. There has been a search for the Hall of Records at the Great Sphinx. There is a chamber or passage supposedly located in the right forepaw, which is said to contain the records of the lost civilization of Atlantis and vital information and secrets to the world, a vault containing the ancient records of the earth.

Groups such as The Illuminati, The Freemasons, Skull & Bones, etc., hoping to gain access to these secrets, are giving it their respective attention and focus, and perhaps their resources, into discovering The Hall of Records. Their foundations are based upon ancient Egyptian beliefs.
I believe this is similar, in theory, to ‘the foot’ of the statue. The secrets to ‘the islands’ many mysteries, origins and perhaps civilization itself, lie within ‘the shadow of the statue’. It would appear that this knowledge is only available to those who are not on the side of Charles Widmore, but members of another organization.

I had speculated previously that I believe Ilana and Bram work for the one and only Benjamin Linus. I have stated many times that one should not underestimate the power of Ben, nor should anyone discount his alliances, nor his betrayals. He has an evil side to him, but I have to think that he is a better man than his nemesis, Charles Widmore.

I think we can also safely assume that the old members of the Dharma Initiative were ripe with corruption. In fact, I now believe that Dharma was a ‘government front’ all along, as opposed to being a bunch of ‘peace loving hippies’, wanting to live out their existence on ‘the island’. They were there, along with all of their scientists to pluck ‘the island’, of all its worth! There is certainly nothing very peaceful about that.
Considering, that the government during the 1970’s behind closed doors was conducting a variety of ‘secret programs’ in the name of research, Dharma may in fact have been one of those programs. While there may have been some legitimate and unsuspecting members of Dharma, the ‘hidden agenda’ of the powers behind these programs, existed. Kelvin Inman, a former military man, and a former spy of ten years, was recruited by Dharma, sometime before ‘the purge’ to man the Swan Station. Why did Dharma select a military man for this post? It was just pushing a button, right?

Something very strange has been going on since 1954 on this island, and it is still not easily or readily defined who represents what or why. I don’t know who will ultimately end up on the side of what is truly good for ‘the island’, but if Bram’s words to Miles were any indication of which side he stands on, then consider what he says. He asks Miles, ‘don’t you want to know who you are, and why you have these abilities, what makes you special, etc’? It certainly sounds sincere, but’.

Could this be another ‘con’ by a newly founded, more sophisticated Dharma group, who is neither aligned with the old Dharma group, Charles Widmore or Richard and ‘the others’? Has another alliance been formed?

Consider this old saying, ‘there are three sides to every story’. And, somewhere within, lies the truth!

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Written by

dabiatchishere

~ Contrary to popular misconception, karma has nothing to do with punishment and reward. It exists as part of our holographic universe’s binary or dualistic operating system only to teach us responsibility for our creations—and all things we experience are our creations. ~

123 thoughts on “What Lies in The Shadow of the Statue’.

  1. I totally think there is a third group here … DI Ann Arbor for sure. What I am not sure is the power behind it. Maybe we’ll see more from Eloise Hawking, or the unveiling of the Economist?
    Either way, they know a bit about the island, and they could be some completely different group. But they had to know the plane was making it’s way to the island, so how did they get that info? Another pocket of electromagnetic energy that predicts where the island will be? That would indicate DI Ann Arbor or some other spin off of DI. Or did Eloise leak informattion to someone else? Maybe Dan Faraday knows what’s in the shadow of the statue? It is interesting that they ask everyone they meet. That means there are already people on the island, potentially, that are part of this group.

  2. mojo, thanks for your comment. What I find completely overwhelming in trying to determine who is on what side, stems from the fact, that so many of these groups have intertwined.

    You have the ‘Shepherd’ family who I think are some kind of direct descendants/blood line of the original inhabitants of ‘the island, along with Richard Alpert.

    Then you have Jacob, Ms. Hawking, Widmore and ‘the others’ who are a mixture of the original inhabitants and Dharma. Throw in John Locke, and ‘the losties’ who I believe descend from all of these different groups, (not just one), and one way or the other, and it presents a really tangled web.

    I agree with you, that somebody on that ‘island’ has the same information as Ilana and Bram, and they are protecting it. The question is, who? And, for what reasons.

    I think it’s too early to go out on a limb, to determine until we learn more about who is who and what side they are playing on.

    I am fascinated by this element of the story, as it presents an even deeper mystery, IMO.

    Thanks for your interest!

  3. Definitely a LOT going on at this point … so many ways it could go. I am curious to see just how many angles they bring in, because it is already hard to keep track.
    I can totally see the Shepherd/Richard connection, as Christian and Richard have always known “Jacob’s” or the island’s will and have never sought power. Can’t say the same for Ben/Widmore/et. al. Both others and DI have been corrupt at some point, so it makes for a great mystery as to the third group’s motives.

  4. You’re definitely right about that, mojo! I am convinced that ‘the losties’ will also fall on the varying sides as well.

    As for the third group, and whether they are there in support of ‘the island’ or representing their own selfish agenda, remains to be seen.

    I think it would be the absolute ‘kicker’, if somehow as much as Ben & Widmore detest each other, if they and Jacob, Christian and ‘the island’ were all representing the same interests against this ‘new threat’!

    But, somehow I feel there is another evil side who will be in support of this new group!

  5. That sure would be ironic, wouldn’t it! And that is something the writers are great at! I have wondered if this third side will bring some type of light to the DI, Others, and Losties true motives somehow. Whether through knowing more than all the other groups, or through demanding everyone else join forces to overcome them.

  6. Nice one Dabsi…I have been doing a lot of thinking on this situation…

    I find it hard to believe that there is an actual 3rd group…

    I think that the unknown economist is someone that is related to the others…
    I find it hard to believe that the ‘statue…’ code is just a code.
    I think that the people saying it, is actually people who literally know what lies there…

  7. It is intriguing and spooky at the same time, isn’t it, that maybe the writers are trying to get us to over analyze when really Ilana and her crew do know what lies there? Love it, AES! It seems that either way, though, they are a third group. Or are you saying they are original others?

  8. AES, man of lilttle doubt! How can you possibly believe that there isn’t a third group?

    This can go both ways. This group is either evil or they are good!

    I think we have witnessed both ‘the others’ and Dharma using ‘the island’ for their own means. Perhaps over the course of time, the original meaning and purpose got lost! Pun intended.

    Maybe somebody from either Dharma or ‘the others’ met with somebody ‘new’ on the outside world, who has steered them in the right direction.

  9. AES, I definitely agree that it is more than a code, and this group knows exactly what it means.

    Also, this group is likely an offshoot of one of the originals.

  10. There has also been a lot of discussion on ancient groups, and the statue must have been constructed by an ancient group. Maybe this third group pre-dates the others? We know Richard has “always been here,” meaning on the island, and Eloise Hawking has been around in every time period as well. We also know, from lostpedia and the producers, that Eloise travels BACK in time, and that she is some sort of time cop for course correcting and making sure people do what they’re supposed to. Maybe Richard and Eloise have a deeper connection than we see now.

  11. One more thought. You then have to ask the question, that if they do know that there are secrets is, this something man was intended to be privy to.

  12. Good thoughts, mojo! I am thinking that although they themselves are not ancient, perhaps this knowledge has been passed down to them, and they are in some way descendants of the original ancient culture.

    Their reason for going to ‘the island’ is to reclaim this knowledge, or something to that effect.

  13. spot on…my exact thoughts Dabs…we know this group exists in 2004 when Miles is kidnapped, and in 2007 when 316 crashes….

    Hell, the Economist could even be a Lostie…unless they all died in the 70s-2004…

    Some of the others survive, so why not have a Lostie play the role, and take almost all possibility of ‘theorizing’…
    There would be no real way to tell, but these people obviously believe, or know what is going on, otherwise Bram wouldnt be so confident that they are the team that is going to win…

    Here is my problem…we know Abbadon hired Naomi, and we know he works for Widmore…Dan, Charolette, and Miles, all end up on Widmores freighter…and Widmore funds Faradays research at Oxford…

    Something is off…either Miles is screwing over Chuck, or he decided to ignore Bram, and stay on Widmores side…

    Now, I think he is doing this on Brams terms, being he still hits Ben up for cash, and by the way he gives the money back to the dead boys father…by his statement about ‘telling someone they love them before they are dead’, it leads me to believe he is going back to find out what happened, and where he came from…not for financial gain…and the most likely candidate to be the Economist…Benjamin Linus in my eyes…

  14. Now I am more curious about Eloise. Where did she come from? We haven’t learned anything about Richard or Eloise’s past. Hmmm… They both have reason to “reclaim” the true order of things if they do have authority over the island/time travel/etc. as they seem to.

  15. AES – love the idea that a Lostie could be the Economist, and/or part of the Statue crew! Didn’t think of that … I agree that Miles has his own agenda now re: his father.

  16. I would like to say Richard, Hanso, or even Jacob…yeah, I considered it for real…the thing is, there is nothing connecting any of them directly to Miles abduction by the ‘team van’…

  17. AES, that is a brilliant thought! See what you are capable of.

    I like the part about Miles. I think you are onto something with that line of thinking! He is totally screwing over Charles.

    I also think Abaddon was playing both sides of the fence with Widmore

    I also think that Faraday is playing Widmore too!

  18. Faraday and Miles yes…Abbadon, not necessarily…I think Abbadon was genuinly working for Charles, which would give good reason for Ben to shoot him….
    But I have had a nagging suspicion since the episode, that it is actually Ben.

  19. AES & mojo, The characters all line up, but as I said, they are all intertwined.

    Nobody knows what side any of them are on, or will end up on, until something happens to give them the choice!

    Money, power and greed are good motivators, and so is faith and redemption.

  20. Interesting thoughts. I have to chew on them for a while re: Miles importance for the third group.
    I must say I have always thought Faraday is doing his own thing. He is too knowledgeable about what he is researching and has been to the island so many times … he is not doing anyone’s bidding but his own. Although is motives seem pure enough, what would he sacrifice to get his end goal? Sorry, tangent there.

  21. AES, I agree with Abadon in the sense that he was working for Widmore, but he was also promoting John Locke to go on the walkabout from the beginning.

    You see what I am saying about the alliances being unclear.

    With the stakes being as high as what they are, it makes sense there would be betrayals.

    Ben knows what’s going down, trust me on that one!

  22. mojo, I think Faraday is more aligned with his mother than Widmore. I think he has used him to be able to do his research, and hand over the results to his mom, while playing daddy dearest along!

  23. Abadon seemed to have a lot of knowledge for someone to just be playing sides, so I have a tendency to think he was more like a time cop like Eloise.
    I think Ben may be more lost than we’ve seen him up to this point. He doesn’t have the upper hand anymore; not sure if he is in the know anymore either.
    Alliances are definitely unclear and could go any direction.

  24. Miles goes to Ben about the 3.2mil…Ben reacts as is someone just said something along the lines of “What did one snowman say to the other?”
    Why 3.2, why not 3.1 or 3.3?

    I think Ben is in some way manipulating everyone, especially Sayid…
    We have spoke already about Ben almost prepping Sayid to shoot him in the future…I think that by him setting him up with Elsa, it may have been a test of sort to ensure Sayid was truly a killing machine…he had to be completely ruthless to kill a woman who he seemed almost in Love with…and a chid…

    But, I still hold onto my suspision that it is is one of the more ‘ancient’ indgineous people from the island, and if that is the case, possibly Richard or, as I said earlier…Jacob.

    Lol, you are correct, this is confusing…and we really dont have a lot of backup for any real thought that could not be overtook by another…much like Jacobs identity…it is one of the reasons I am leaning towards Jake being the economist as a possibility…

  25. mojo, I tend to think if Ben killed Abbadon it was more than the fact he worked for Widmore.

    Something else was up there, but not sure what!

  26. I think Widmore sent Abbadon way back when because he needed an early jump on the whole walkabout thing…He was there when John met Richard for Richards first time in the 50s…not Ben…
    And he knows that John is supposed to be on that island, and plans on making it happen.
    Widmore also knows that John has a role in the war, and I dont think he would push his return if it wasnt in his favor.

  27. AES, lol You flip-flopper!

    I think you are correct about Miles in the sense he keeps asking for 3.2 million, almost as if when somebody agrees to pay it, he knows this is the man, he is aligned with!

    Brilliant thought!

    It all goes back to the ancients, trust me!

  28. AES, this is a very good point, especially when you consider Widmore met Locke in 1954.

    It all stemmed from there, and that is why certain people were pursued.

    The ‘losties’ caused their own suffering!

  29. Ben doesnt want John getting hung up on Charles…Smikey knew Ben was planning on killing John, and threatened his life for it…
    something happens down the road, that I feel Ben is trying to prevent, and is doing a poor job at it.
    I think he feels that if he can take out John, and Charles’s allies, he will be able to change something in the past…

  30. I am conflicted about Widmore; he was willing to kill all the people on the island after retrieving Ben, and yet he seems to be more of an authority on the island than Ben in many ways. He was there when Ben was shot and healing, he was there when Locke came into camp, and he is willing to help Locke now.
    Seems that even Widmore could go either way. I think this is another way of the writers demonstrating that everyone has good and bad, and as you said, Dabs, we don’t know what we’re going to do until the choice is presented.
    Ben definitely seems out of control, and we know he doesn’t like that very much!

  31. Yes it is…

    I have a biggie coming, something we have discussed before, but it wont be out for a few days…a ‘book’ in progress, lol, a lot of info, and I want to make sure I get my facts straight this time…I started with the incident on another post of mine, and plan on trying to connect a few of these ideas that we have been discussing lately…absolutley killing me…I have what I have expected to happen for a while, and now this new info…Some coincides, some just makes my nose bleed…

  32. mojo, you make a very good point. We are being led to believe certain things about the characters and their motives, but perhaps we are being misled to some degree!

    Ben is definitely scurrying around, but is not to be counted out! In a sense, he is more in control than we think.

    That is how he has always operated.

  33. It resonates with me, after all this discussion, that the Statue crew are coming to reclaim the true order of whatever, and that this will be a turning point of allies and such, as was the freighter situation. I lvoe this show!

  34. lol AES! I know it will be a really good theory. they always are!

    Your mind is very creative, and you are onto everything that is happening on the show.

    I would like to see you expand on some of the ideas and things we have been discussing all along, with this new information.

    Take your time with it, and post!

  35. mojo, I definitely think this time around, it will be full out war!

    The ‘freighter folk’ were amateurs, compared to what is coming.

    Old Widmore should never have challenged Ben!

    That’s all I can say. lol

    BTW, thanks for joining in our conversation. You are always welcome to join in any of our posts! you make a great addition!

  36. Thanks Dabs! You all have great ideas and creative brains, so that means a lot coming from you!

    PS – one last thought – the statue is HUGE, so wouldn’t much of the island be in it’s shadow at some point?

  37. oh god. i go out for drinks and come back to a crazy amount of posts. naomi offers 1.6 million to miles. 16 being a number. and he doubles it to change sides. i dont think there is more to that. i was originally with the camp of it being a code. but now im not so sure.

    i think faraday knows the most out of the people in the 70s that shouldnt be there. except maybe juliette. but i believe hes gonna lay down some cray info next week.

    and if the shadow of the statue isnt code, than i have a sneaking suspicion that locke knows the answer to that question…

  38. I admit that I didn’t read all of the comments yet… just the first several. I’ll get back to them, I swear! Great post, Dabs…

    I think that there is a third group… sort of… There’s Widmore, there’s Ben and there’s whoever Ilana and Bram work for. I think in the end, Widmore and Ben hate each other but they’re on the same side. That’s the Others. Ilana and Bram I think represent DHARMA2000. It’s new, it’s improved. Less hippyish. Kind of chubby.

    They know a lot about the island. Probably a lot more than the previous DHARMA did while they were on the island. They know what lies in the shadow of the island. Redemption. That’s what Bram was offering Miles but Miles wasn’t ready. He wasn’t ready to forgive his father and accept the truth about him. That didn’t happen until the other night in Some Like It Hoth when he saw the truth with his own eyes. I digress…

  39. Thomas5, long time, no see! Glad you stopped by. On ‘the island’, I wouldn’t be surprised to see anyone again!

    Dani1221, Bram & Ilana do not work for Widmore, but Naomi did.

  40. ekolocation, I like the idea of Miles being offered double to change sides! I believe that was the code!

    Whichever man agreed to his terms, in this case Ben, that was the man he was working for.

    I think you could be right about Locke knowing the meaning!

  41. Thanks highbrow! That means a lot coming from you!

    I am inclined to agree with you about Ben & Widmore although hating one another, being on the same side. Semantics, I suppose.

    Dharma 2000 and then some! This new group, has all of the finesse.

    I believe you are 100% correct about Miles. I think that is why Bram tells him, he is not quite ready. You are right, Miles needs to be able to forgive, and be redeemed, and then he will be ready!

    I am counting on Miles to hopefully pull off something special.

  42. i was thinking redemption too since brahm talked to miles. i mean thats what every losty seemed to get. usually helped by locke. and that makes a lot of sense in relation to what bram told miles. i wonder if any dharma members get redemption. dharma member flashback episode?

  43. ekolocation, I hope Miles finds redemption, as he is one of my favourite characters.

    I think Locke might take on a role of leadership of trying to help anyone who is looking for redemption. It would also build up ‘for the good’ on his side.

    I am not sure about anyone from Dharma, being redeemed, unless they stick around in the same time frame!

  44. Anyone else think the writers are progressively inserting a new series of numbers?

    In this week’s episode there was a lot of emphasis on numbers (room numbers, dollar amounts and the damn microwave flashing 316!)

    I keep thinking they are setting something up. Maybe the Valenzetti Equation has been changed since Desmond turned the key? Maybe Daniel has passed himself off as a guy named Valenzetti and has infiltrated the Dharma high command?

  45. What a fantastic idea Andre7. I really think you are onto something with that thought! Makes sense to me!

    I noticed this the different numbers that appeared, but gave no futher thought to them!

    Great eye!

    Now, could you please put together the meaning for us? lol

  46. Interesting … flight 815 fit into the old numbers, and now 316. I wonder if 1.6 mil and 3.2 mil are also part of the new set? I wonder if Miles asks 3.2 because he wants to see if Ben is on Bram’s side or not. If he recognized Miles’ request, that signified his alliance with Bram’s folk.

  47. That is certainly a thought mojo! I think we have to explore the use of these numbers.

    I think the 3.2 do fit into the new set of numbers.

    I wonder if the flight (316) has anything to do with the sequence of numbers changing. And, if this was part of, what needed to change the situation. I’m not sure.

    Great thoughts!

  48. mojo, now there is an interesting twist! I never would have thought of the numbers being reversed!

    Could it mean, that by reversing the numbers, the situation has changed, and now things will be set on the right course?

    Interesting thought!

  49. I have to agree that my instinct tells me that Ben is behind it all…not that I am hoping to for a National Treasure moment, but I think it quite plausible to interact with the ancient culture, either by seemingly immortal bloodlines (Richard) or some sort of ancient society passing the torch type of situation. I wonder if they will incorporate more Hebraic lore…I mean, Atlantis seems a bit campy, but then so does the Ark of the Covenant and such. If so, then….how in the world is Ben able to do what he is doing? Is he just that clever of a guy who happened to be on the island and happened to get shot, healed, etc, or did something lead Horace to find Roger, etc….I just see something greater with Ben than a cunning mind. Also, Juliette knows more than she’s letting on…this is a certainly certain of….I can’t wait!

  50. Great thoughts kittycarson! I am inclined to agree with your line of thinking all the way around.

    I think there is much more to Ben and his background. I would suspect it might be in his ancestry. Although cunning, I almost feel that he has some rights or claim to ‘the island’, otherwise I think the smoke monster would have killed him, as opposed to only judging his actions.

    I think with the ancient backstory, they can work in, many different elements that are believable, without deviating too far from the spectrum.

    What better way to tie it all together, and still keep it believable and somewhat simple, in terms of answers.

  51. kittycarson & mojo, I am totally convinced that Julilette knows exactly what is going on.

    Perhaps not so much in Ben’s entire plan, but she is aware of the overall picture. I think she acts as ‘the director’.

    The thing is, she has such a sweet demeanor, which sidelines you, until you remember she is one tough lady!

  52. Great discussion here Dabs.

    For some reason two thoughts have stuck out to me and I think they could tie in to this discussion..

    First let me say that I, too, have been curious about the ‘new’ numbers we keep seeing. I have wondered if there is something new to be keeping track of, or almost a sense that we’ve been trained like Pavlov’s dog to look for meaning in any numbers we see…and maybe there’s not too much more to them.

    However, I do think that 316 is really important based on John 3:16 in the Bible. Given that 316 is the flight that John ‘returned’ to the island on (and ultimately orchestrated the Losties return) and therefore was his means of experiencing the fullest sense of sacrifice and resurrection, island-style.

    So to me, his role as the ‘third side’ has been very significant this season. I know that isn’t necessarily the ‘third side’ other people would follow, but I offer these couple of correlations…especially to add to the conversation about Widmore (and Abbadon) pursuing Losties pre-815.

    To think about the Biblical story of sacrifice and Jesus, it has to be considered that Jesus’ role and ultimate sacrifice was ‘pre-planned.’ In the Bible, the idea of the trinity exists before Jesus’ birth. So Jesus and what he did wasn’t an unexpected plot twist into the battle of ‘good vs. evil’. And ultimately both sides knew of his role and power. The devil tried to tempt Jesus away from his role, and one explicit temptation was actually based on power and authority. This is what reminded me of the Ben/Locke power issues in the new order of resurrected Locke.

    I think Widmore knew of Locke’s existence and role on island, and tried to sway and use Locke for his side. So sending Abaddon early on to get Locke on the flight was one part of it. It’s also obvious that Ben tried to manipulate Locke for his purposes, offering ‘authority of the Others’ to Locke, and even attempting to thwart Locke’s rise to power – but ultimately, Locke couldn’t be stopped. So therefore, John (and now who/what John represents) is one candidate on the third side in the battle that is coming down.

    But to also argue my way out of this, I think that a DI v.2.0 could be very legitimate as well.

  53. The birth of Jesus Christ wasn’t a plot twist? Jesus just became a much less interesting character in my opinion…

    Good post, Kim… I think that Locke does represent a side in this and maybe I’ve named Ben as having a side just because I’m used to doing that… but recent events have demoted Ben. He’s now either a leutenant to John Locke or the smoke monster is going to play island basketball with him. Their on the same side and only time will tell if Ben plans to play along.

    I’m not entirely sure Widmore could be considered a different side either though. He’s been exiled, sure, and I think he’s looking out for himself but I think that working towards protecting the island (like John’s side) works in his best interest.

    DI2K is, in my opinion, represented on the island now by Ilana, Bram and whoever else they brought along on flight 316 and they are the other side.

  54. kimberly, I love how you explain John 3:16, it’s significance to Jesus and the bible, in addition toLocke and his return, as well as to the flight and the numbers.

    I like how mojo explains that we may be seeing a version of the original numbers reversed, since #316’s return to ‘the island’.

    I believe Locke is representing ‘the island’. I think the Shephard’s fall on the side of ‘the island’ too. They are about the only people I am clear on at this point. And, that is based on the presumption that ‘the island’ is good.

    Ben may have aligned himself with the new version of Dharma, and I am also considering that Richard Alpert may also have done this, if he was persuaded into the notion of believing that all former leaders, were not acting in accordance with true ‘ancient’ beliefs.

    It’s very hard to say. I also like the idea that Widmore and Ben may end up falling on the same side, as well. Lots to think about!

    I believe this war is shown to be a three sided affair, with the presence of Bram and Ilana. Until now, nobody has ever mentioned about ‘what lies in the shadow of the statue’ as being remotely important, or relevant to ‘the island.

    We also cannot discount Ms. Hawking and Brother Campbell who may well be on the outside working on behalf of this new order.

    A lot of reasonable speculation, and time will tell whose side everyone falls on.

    I expect things will get shaken up, and people will begin to show which side they are on.

  55. Highbrow, I think it all depends on what you mean by ‘plot-twist.’ All throughout the Old Testament, there are prophecies…and it’s up to each person who heard/hears the prophecy to ultimately choose what that prophecy meant. For some, Jesus’ birth/life/death/purpose was all foretold…still meaningful, but foretold. For others, Jesus has no correlation to the prophecies of a Messiah. For others, the prophecies have no value to begin with, so why would it matter how they relate to anyone or anything.

    That’s where I am s-t-r-e-t-c-hing (probably in some people’s minds) the similarities in the story of Locke and the island. As we’ve seen, Locke himself had a significant role in creating the scenario of getting to the island and becoming the island leader. At the end of the day for Locke (if we even get to that place) we could say, ‘it was going to happen that way all along.’ For Locke, it’s probably not a ‘plot-twist’ – for Ben, for Jack, for Sun, it’s definitely a plot-twist, it’s unexpected and at some point, they might look back and have a few ‘Aha!’ type moments.

    Now all the cross-over and flip-flopping of sides and connections – it still seems to me that Locke is about the only one who has remained steadfast to the island. Everyone else has blurred the lines, as Dabs has said.

  56. Yeah, I agree. There is only one person who is definitely on the islands side and that’s John Locke. Hopefully he can get some others to come over and be as hardcore about it as him. He needs to realize thought that, even though “it was never easy” it probably is easier for John to have that kind of faith in the island than it would be for anyone else. He gives the island credit for healing his paralysis and later for bringing him back to life. Who else has experienced that?

    I think Jack is coming along but that isn’t going to mean much… Jack is a loser, plus he’s going to be busy raising the triplets he’s got in the oven there…

    Better for John, he’s got Sawyer. Sawyer is definitely ready to follow John with faith as he showed us early in this season. Hurley’s a follower so I’m sure he’s onboard too.

    Anyway, I didn’t really think this comment out too well… It’s time to go home… laters!

  57. I think Jack’s pregnancy is going to be the miracle that convinces him that the island is special.

    Keep working those delts and enjoy a good microbrew…

  58. It’s Highbrow, he’s responsible for perpetuating such crazy talk. I really just want to hear somebody take him seriously some time and try to argue back…I think that would be really funny. 🙂

  59. kimberly, you do handle him brilliantly! I have a hard time, separating the two! highbrow knows that, and tries even harder to get under my skin! lol

    PS: I have argued back! lol

  60. So yes, Dabs, you do argue back quite well! He just suffers from such an inferiority complex to Kate’s shoulders that I think he has to try to stand up for himself elsewhere.

    Wow, poor HB…gone home and can’t defend himiself.

    It’s just payback for the Oregon comment.

  61. How do we know Miles didnt just tell Naomi or Widmore that he was abducted & told them about their conversation an the ‘phrase’? Widmore was a Leader on Island (Anyone know how long??) & im sure he has alot of knowledge about the “Mystical” side of the Island. More than a D.I. group no matter what year.

    It makes sense about a 3rd party, but who would be the Man behind it all? Maybe R.A. because the Man/Woman would need to know somewhat about the Is;and & what really Lies In the Shadow of the Statue.

    If it is Jughead in the Shadow then Daniel An Ellie would know about it an it was Dan’s idea to “BURY” it. Makes sense since we just kind of see the Jughead in 1 episode then never again.

  62. Why is everyone praising Sawyer…he is doing nothing in Dharmaville except setting the Losties up for death…Hes the head of freaking security, and he goes to help Kate without taking care of the tape situation before hand…he is correct, he does think before he acts…
    Then, Miles the super genius leaves the tape for Phil to find, assuming it wasnt actually Horace setting up Lafleur, by sending Phil there to see a reaction…either way, one of the stupidest thoughtless things ANY of the ‘leaders’ have done on the show…
    The tape alone could be what causes the war.

    John doesnt want Sawyer, he wants Jack.
    Ben defends any bad things that is said about Jack, and granted, he is doing nothing, which I myself have cursed him over…but what is he supposed to do…punch a DI operative in the face and tie him up in his house…yeah, Im sure thats going to end well.
    Dont get me wrong, Sawyer got them out of trouble in the beginning of there trip to the 70s, but now he is doing what almost all the islands leaders seem to have done so far…become power happy, and thinks that he can just fix everything.
    The thing is…Sawyer doesnt fix things…Jack does…it seems to be his ‘gift’.
    Sawyer cons…maybe he should stick to that and leave the leader stuff to someone a little more experienced. He and Juliet are happy living in their ‘imaginationland’ (thats for highbrow/butters), playing house, not wanting to have anything screwed up…ummm, yeah, they are from the future and are aware of the purge…morons.
    Jack is sitting in the shadow right now, biding his time…thinking about how he will handle things once ‘Lafleur’ screws things up, which he has done already.
    When the time is right, we will see Jack step back into the role of a leader, and show Sawyer how it is to be done.
    Jack’s not my favorite character or anything, but in stressful situations that cannot be lied out of, he has the ability to convince people much like a certain others leader of the past.

  63. Good point about Sawyer and Miles slipping up. I think it’s a case where the other ‘losties’ presence has caused so much stress in their peaceful existence, they have forgotten how to cover their island butts!

    True, Locke would likely pick Jack over Sawyer.

  64. Wait, the only real Sawyer praise I know of at this point is over at the “Island’s Hotlist” post! 😉

    AES – You could be DEAD ON accurate that the tape is the catalyst for the war.

    The Losties as a collective group are spiraling out of control. Sawyer’s ‘survival’ skills are running low; Kate’s “sweet girl” con skills are out of place in crazy suspicion-filled Dharmaville; Jack’s version of laying low is almost smart but ultimately we know that he can’t lay low for too long, so he’s going to ‘step up’, it just will be in the midst of a crisis he helped perpetuate…Hurley makes me incredibly nervous, love him, but c’mon, he’s not exactly the brightest bulb in the box.

    I really think the only one who has a place of security is Juliet – because she can out-con the cons themselves. She’s a freakin’ serpent.

    It’s all nerve-wracking at this point.

  65. I think A.E.S was right on about in the beginning Sawyer is able to Con the D.I. & then again when Jack & others arrive.

    Jack is a surgeon so thats his ability or gift like A.E.S said, In a way Jack fixes things but we seen Jack get the same way making mistakes as Leader.

  66. haha kimberly, right on! I agree with everything you said, and I think Jack being a suspect in Ben’s kidnapping incident will also play a part in the war!

  67. really like what your saying i this, however, there are three sides to every story, and to finish your phrase off, …”his side, my side, and the truth.”

    now you would think the people telling the truth are the ones whom would try to let people know with out being cryptic, like “what lies in the shadow of the statue…” and the “dont you want to know who you are?”

    its all very strange, and doesnt seem like they want to tell what it is and you have to find out for yourself, which makes me think that the people who say that, like bhram and co, have been brainwashed into thinking something. as it is very primitive, i think, that they would be cryptic, they are not being very “clever” in the way they told miles, could they be time travelers from the past?

    could the 3rd party actually be from the past? like an ancint sage, who knew or prophasised something on the islland…. hence the strange way they speak in riddles and things??

    just a thought ahhah

    x

  68. Sure, pick on me while I’m away from the computer… geez…

    You guys are on to me… Sometimes I’m dead serious and sometimes I’m just making stuff up as I go… I think I do a good job of making them both sound the same.

  69. i have a feeling you just made that up highbrow.

    and bram isnt brainwashed. its just like locke on the island. he helped people get redemption themselves. he could have destroyed all of charlies heroine, but he let charlie destroy it himself. it is more rewarding and it builds character.

  70. highbrow, that is what is so infuriating to me, is that even I have a difficult time, knowing when you are pulling my leg! I can’t get too bent out of shape by it though, as your avatar is so cute! lol

    You all make great points about Sawyer and ‘the losties’. I predicted with the arrival of Jack and Kate, that would get the fur flying, and it has.

    kimberly, you made an observation about Kate, in JoeArtistWriters Fun theory, about Kate not seeing the ‘nasty’ side of old Roger. That is true, but I tend to think Kate would ignore all of the danger signs with him anyway. She is mourning the loss of Aaron, and therefore is blinded to common sense.

  71. losts-columbo, Thanks for finishing the phrase.

    If anyone knows what lies in the shadow of the statue, the phrase is all that is required for acknowledgement.

    If it is not understood by someone, they don’t have the answer. And, nobody is prepared to give the answer up to someone they don’t want to have that information.

    I believe that is privileged information.

  72. i see…..privilaged information i dont think it is.

    i just think thay bhram and co, are asking what lies in the shadow of the statue, and dont you want to know who your are etc.

    to me, i cant stop thinking about how sort of presuptious it is, almost as if they know that they will find out or more so, they will find out againi dont know.

    all inall, i think that bhram and co are waiting for something, for people to find out what actually is in the shadow of the statue, and i think he knows theyll find out,

    yes, i just repeated myself there!

    x

  73. Considering the conversation Bram has with Miles prior to either of them going to ‘the island’, Bram indicates he knows what they are looking for, and therefore asks Miles to join them.

    When Ilana strikes Frank Lapidus, it is because he doesn’t answer the question, which is in code, IMO.

    They know the answer, and they are looking to identify other supporters, who recognize the code. Anyone who responds, as Frank did, is known as an individual who is not with them, and cannot be of assistance to them.

    They arrived with heavy boxes, and have been planning this mission on the outside world, for some time. I doubt they would be that naive to a plan a mission they know nothing about, based upon some speculation of what might lie in the shadow of the statue.

    The statement itself, indicates they have some knowledge!

    It is

  74. hahaaa well i see what you mean, but im still not convinced they do know what they arer looking for, as, they would justn tell miles instead of scaring him, maybe show some evidence.

    its kinda like people believe in heaven and hell, even though theyve only gained knowledge of it through a book(bible)

    but they have been told about it and theyre convinced its there.

    but yeah, your probably right! ahah!

    x

  75. If they simply told Miles, they would in fact, be telling Miles information that he could pass onto Widmore and others, they don’t want to have the information. That is logical.

    I have to believe they are not on ‘the island’ looking for ‘fools gold’. They know what they are looking for, and came prepared.

    As for peoples belief in the bible, that is what is known as blind faith. It is the belief in something far greater than ones self, that requires no proof to subscribe to its belief.

    But that is not what we are here to debate.

    Thanks for your comments!

  76. thanks for your comments

    a polite way to say shut up and leave me alone! ahahha

    i will after this though….

    bhram is i think someones goon, like hes been emploied to “spread theword, and keep the word” but in a way that is cryptic…”what lies in the shadow of the statue?” its a question and a riddle perhaps, but why….? and i think they dont know either, utare looking for someone who does, but doesnt quite know it yet, like locke perhaps, or ben…

    like…” what lies beyond the gates of heaven” eternal glory? apparently, what lies in the shadow of the statue? we dont know.

    yes, time for e to go now. sorry, i just find this the most interesting thing in lost right now, the whole statue thing,

    (which by the way is jesus…)

    okay, bye!

    x

  77. losts-columbo, If you have been around this site for any length of time, you will know that I use this terminology often.

    It wasn’t specially meant for you, nor to deter you from making further comment.

    I also find the subject quite fascinating and why I posted it. I think this is going to change everything we have been previously led to believe in Lost.

    It brings with it a whole new element of mystery, and secrets that somebody must know about, aside of Ilana, Bram and whomever their employer is.

    Just curious, what makes you think the statue might be Jesus?

  78. haha, i know, i havent been here long, bu started off badly as you may remember haha, sorry about that.

    and i agre with what you say that it will change or enlighten everything we know about lost.

    why do i think its jesus? there is too much going on that we talk about lost, so when lost is finished well say “oh…so thats what lost was all about!”

    be it time travel and righting your wrongs, or an ancient power struggle linked to time travel, be it simply a story of love and hate of a affection to an island that has powers and poeple wanting to protect it.

    i love it all, but somewhere in side me thinks this is soemthing to do with the origins of religioun, i dont know why, so im going for jesus…kind of like the da vinci code, and i mean sort of with a hefty spoonful and pinch of salt.

    x

  79. losts-columbo, I like your explanation, and would agree that Lost has something to do with the origins of religion and ancient beliefs.

    It does have an ‘air’ of DaVinci Code in it, and I think that may be deliberate, in bringing in a third side, which has ‘secret origins’ in modern day society, so I’m definitely with you on that! I think the Illuminati or Freemasons might cover that nicely, or something along those lines.

    I think the writers are fairly clever in taking their story back to ancient times, as it was believed by many that the Egyptians were influenced and guided by the cosmos, and perhaps even aliens.

    So, I think without any offense to any specific religion or faith, they have covered this extremely well, and can tell a story which is still quite believable.

    I can’t wait to learn more about Ilana and crew, and what they’re up to!

  80. In a little late but dabiatchishere I love your theory here and I agree the future is going to hold some amazing stories for us to follow with brilliant plot twists and turns.

  81. It seems the thread is dead BUT I only arrived late… I thought ‘What Lies in the Shadow of the Statue” and “You don’t want to know who you really are” are linked. Obviously I know more now because of the few more episodes screened (even though Bram and Co. have not been back).

    What lies in the shadow of the statue? How about graves (like how the tombs of ancient Egypt are housed within great monuments) and that’s why Miles is so important to the phrase because of his ‘talent’ he can find out what happened to the people there… and remember this is said in the present to Miles before his journey back and in light of last nights episodes which says that they will all die… what lies in the shadow of the stature in the present? The Losties graves… (except Jake and Kate, our own Adam and Eve in the caves).

    Religion is important but so is science… the shows uncanny nature derives from making these connections. It seems creepy or weird when all these connections arise, the writers are exploiting this sensation in the viewers by dropping coincidences, references and allusions.

  82. carpie 21, never to late to make a comment on a thread, especially if you are new to the site!

    I like what you have to say about the graves of ‘the losties’ being ‘what lies in the shadow’.

    I was under the impression Miles was recruited, so he could speak to the ‘dead’ Dharma people Ben killed, so he could locate Ben’s whereabouts, according to Naomi.

    The ‘ancients’ could be buried there as well, but I still get the impression, this is a ‘code word’, with some greater significance, although I am not sure what!

    I believe you are correct about the ongoing dilemma of science and religion in the show. We are being led through a journey, highlighting both aspects. I guess, from the standpoint of the writers, they are counting on viewers, seeing it from there own perspectives.

    Thanks for your comment!

  83. It could very easily be a code-word/phrase for sure… we know they have used similar things in the past with ‘what does one snowman say to the other’ which is actually interesting to think of because of Kelvin Inman, who worked for both the US military and the Dharma initiative (with our boy Radzinsky). Which would lead me to believe tht Bram and Co are also working for Dharma, the third group opposed to Ben and Widmore, one exiled Hostile and one exiled Dharma…

    AS far as the recruitment of Miles, you are spot on with why Naomi and Widmore want to recruit him but I was referring to when Bram grabbed him and tried to get him to work for their ‘winning side.’ Their group might even be from a farther future in that he seems to know what will happened, and they knew to be on Ajira 316… although they could be working with Ben, who always seems to have more up his sleeve than first appearances.

    I do like the idea that ‘the ancients’ are buried within the shadow of the statue and perhaps Bram and Co. are part of that lineage in some way, knowing more about the island than anyone… who knows, only time will tell…

  84. carpie21, I like your thoughts on Bram and Ilana being part of an ‘ancient lineage’, who have a vested interest in ‘the island’. One, that is likely more true to what ‘the island’, actually likely is. good thoughts on that!

    Yes, they did want Miles’ assistance as well, so that would definitely lend credence to your thoughts! We know they are looking for something, and it could be more than the actual bodies.

    Once again, Miles’ skills would assist them in communicating some much needed information.

    I think they are a group, who has likely discovered information about ‘the island’, not known previously, since ancient times, which could be benefited from.

    Especially, in terms of who the former leaders have been, and how they either underutilized or manipulated ‘the island’ and its unique properties.

    I do not think ‘the island’ and/or Jacob has shed light on what these secrets are, so I expect a big surprise twist, is in store for us.

  85. I just watched this video for the first time… I’m a bit behind I know.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdWLYVRiin8

    And this video makes me think that Bram and Ilana are totally part of a revamped/restarted Dharma initiative. It makes sense ot me that since the talk to Miles about his father, if he wants to find out about him, and Dr Chang is the one in the video insisting that the Dharma be recreated. Also the use of the code words was a Dharma technique when Inman, a DI, uses the snowman line. Finally they need Miles because they want to ‘talk’ with the dead Chang (and maybe Daniel) to find out what they need to do and where to start with the new Dharma and saving the people as per Chang’s wishes in the video.

    So what lies in the shadow of the statue? possibly nothing, might be just the code or a code with the added significance that the dead chang’s (daniel et all) graves are there…

  86. Good thoughts, carpie21. I had thought that whatever it is that lies in the shadow of the statue, has to be knowledge based!

    Knowledge that is needed. It lines up with why they were wanting Miles to speak to the dead. They would want information from ‘key’ players, who are deceased.

    I was pretty sure that Bram was referring to the remaining Dharma members who died in the purge. And, that was who he wanted Miles to communicate with, but realize it may be even something that pre-dates that!

    With the amount of time that has passed, Dharma could have refined its attitudes, and become a much more sophisticated group, than that of the 70’s hippie types.

    In saying that, they could have become much more lethal, in addition!

  87. hi pal!

    was thinking about this today, we never really got much answer to this in the last episodes. perhaps, were to presume its jacob that lies in the shadow of the statue, and he will be the one who saves us all.

    but jcaob isnt a what, hes a it a thing a person. i wonder what the “what” is? a structure? a animal? a relic of some sort…

    and the shadow? and at what time> shadows are cast at diffeent times of the day, could the smoke monster be he shadow? because we dont really know what lies in the smoke monster….

    sorry for posting more questions, i felt the urge to comment!

    x

  88. Hey there losts-columbo!! So funny you are addressing this subject.

    I have finished a theory, but won’t post it, likely until after the weekend. It addresses what might lie in the shadow of the statue.

    I don’t think that Jacob is finished. Perhaps, in physical form, yes. And, I don’t think our friend Locke (his body) is finished yet either!

    In terms of the smoke monster and some recent theories that have been posted, I am more and more inclined to believe that the smoke monster is not malevolent to the cause.

    The finale, has made me go inward and really think about what we actually saw.

    It will be more clear when the theory is posted, and you see what my thoughts are!

    You can ask as many questions as you like. I am more than happy to talk Lost with you, anytime!

  89. aww amazing!

    well, im glad you answered as your a more than willing candidate!

    i think im the only person who thinks locke is just locke and not a manifestation of the smoke monster or jacobs fish fleeing freind.

    hopefully your new theory will support this, as you know it to be true! haha!

    x

  90. I feel like I have had to tip-toe around other peoples theories, until I get this one out! I was going to post today, but the site has been silent, and usually is, over the weekend.

    Once, I get this first one out, then I can proceed along with other ideas I have.

    It’s hard not to be able to articulate the way I would like to. haha lol

    You are not the only person who believes Locke is Locke. He is not a manifestation of anyone. He is dead, laying on the sand! Rolled out of a container, he was placed in.

    Jacob’s Nemesis has manifested himself in a ‘Locke-alike’ body, but he is not the smoke monster, or Locke, he is Jacob’s Nemesis.

    Not too difficult to understand, right?

    We are on the same page, as usual. lol

    The theory will make people think differently about what they have seen and heard, hopefully!

    Lost is not the type of show, that is simple, and doesn’t provide simple answers. It is a mystery, wrapped within a million other mysteries. You have to really dig, to get at the truth!

  91. ah!! thats where i differ from most people, i think both lockes, are just plain old locke! i dont think the newish locke is jocobs friend on the beech.
    i think the whole loophole thing was there to sway us on that…but i could be worng, but i dont think so, i think in grand scheme of things well see them all at some point, i think its full of individuals, and thats why i think locke is just himself nobody else, and i have a sneeking suspicioun its to do with my infamous missing scene!

    but yes, i await your theory with bated breath!

    but i must go to bed mrs T

    have a good sleep.

    arevaderci bella regazza!

    x

  92. losts-columbo, than you will like my theory, as it addresses your statement.

    Locke is Locke, no doubt about it. Your missing scene may fit in quite well.

    Get yourself a good night’s sleep, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts soon!

    Ciao, my bella!

  93. Dabs I just read this theory and liked it. Ever since we saw the interior of the Lamppost and ‘Jughead’ I’ve been convinced the government knows about the Island. Question is did they know about it before they put Jughead on the Island or did they find out about the Islands properties after they arrived on it?

  94. Achalli, so glad you liked the theory!

    When Jughead was placed on ‘the island’ in 1954, The Army was testing ‘H’ bombs in and around the islands in Bikini Atoll. (interesting read on Wikipedia)

    I don’t think The Army initially became aware of ‘the island’s’ unique properties, until sometime after Jughead was planted. I believe their involvement over the years, has been on a secret level.

    If you recall, the maps shown by Ms. Hawking to Jack in the Lampost, were Aerial Army photographs with the exact date in 1954 on them. (check it out).

    That tells me that Ms. Hawking had to have acquired them from the Army!

    Thanks for your interest on this!

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