Parallel Universes and such

Hi, new here. I never had the gall to join the original But scince this is a newer community, I felt better about it.

Sorry if this is repeat.

Before I start, I’m not a scientist of any kind. I know barely anything about science. So… yeah.

I’ve got a feeling we’re going to be getting into parallel universes in season 5. Think about it: Without them, our current state on the island runs into a grandfather paradox. If you don’t know, basically the idea is this:

Suppose you were able to go back in time. Say you went back to before your parents were born. You would not be able to kill your grandfather. Why? If you did, time is altered, and one of your parents is not born, so you are not born. If you are not born, you cannot go back in time to kill your grandfather, so you are born… and so it continues, causing a paradox so large that the universe cannot “course correct” it. The idea is, there must be some mechanism stopping you from doing so. Our characters have run into a similar situation:

The hatch brought them to the island, which brought them back in time. If they destroy the island… then there can’t be a hatch… which means they don’t come to the island, and they don’t go back in time, and they don’t destroy the island. Not to mention the fact that our 316ers are STILL ON THE ISLAND IN 2007.

I believe that the explosion of the bomb was such a big change in history that the universe had no way of course correcting it. The event was squeezed out of the current timeline, creating a whole new ones, in which a new course of actions would unfold. What happens in our original timeline? Thats what I’m not sure about. Perhaps the bomb didn’t explode in the original timeline (personallly, I think this happened).

The inversed titles at the end could be a hint at this, at how the explosion pushed itself into an all new universe.

One question I have though, why did the island dissapear at the end of the 4th season? Because its not gone, its still there in 2007…

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Captain Pea

I was born. Then I grew up.

11 thoughts on “Parallel Universes and such

  1. Unless, of course, Miles was right and Jack dropping the bomb down the hole at the same time this “energy” was drilled into actually CAUSED the incident.

    I fully believe this. If you think about it, by traveling back in time not a single thing was changed. All they really did was follow through with what was going to happen anyway.

    -Faraday still warned young Charlotte not to come back to the island.

    -Their actions (as a group) caused Pierre to act overly cruel to get his wife and baby Miles off the island.

    -Sayid shooting young Ben caused Kate/Sawyer to bring him to the Others and thusly “never be the same again” and forever be faithful to Jacob & the Others.

    -Juliet was the only person with the medical experience to successfully deliver a baby, who turned out to be Ethan. If Juliet was not there, Ethan would have died in childbirth, and never would have become an Other.

    I’m sure there are other examples I am forgetting. However, I think it stands to reason that Jack’s actions caused the incident, which led to the hatch, which led to the initial plane crash.

    Yes, the show is filled with paradoxes, but so far no one has actually succeeded at “changing the future”.

  2. True… all good examples. If they caused the incident though, I wonder what happens to the Losties other than Juliet next season. I’ve got a feeling that the next season isn’t going to continue perfectly linearly from this finale… theres not enough… impact to it.

  3. I am with you Captain Pea. I think they cause a parallel universe to be formed. I think the losties die from the explosion but are alive and either land in California or Jacob and his nemesis cause something else to happen to bring them to the Island.

    I think in the opening scene of the last episode where they were saying it always ends the same, they meant specifically our losties. I think Jacob and MM are replaying the same “game” over and over again using the losties as pawns in a time loop of intersecting parallel universes.

  4. I agree in part. Heres my theory posted on the official lost forum

    Excerpt taken from BBC h2g2

    “What if, when we had invented time machines, you went back in time, and accidentally landed on your grandfather, who had not yet had children. You would simply pop out of existence because you could not have been born. Then, you could not have killed Grandpa, and so he survives and you are eventually born and go back in time and land on him again, so you instantly pop out of existence… you would be stuck in an endless loop. There are a few theories around how this could be resolved.”

    What if the nemesis is from the future, and Jacob from the past. The nemesis travels backwards in time as a result of an as yet unidentified need to destroy Jacob. What isn’t known to the nemesis initially is that his and Jacobs time-lines are connected such that when the nemesis kills Jacob (as seen at the end of series 5) the result is that an infinite time loop is created according to the grandfather paradox. The loophole would try to find a way to end the infinite nature of the loop they are stuck in. Maybe both parties have been able to communicate that they are stuck in the loop and are looking for ways to end it. Like groundhog day. Altering the dynamics of the time-line to enable a new ending. Unsticking a stuck record.

    The rules are that you cannot kill someone with whom you have a connected time-line link. Maybe Ben and Widmore are connected in this way such that Widmore can klll Ben (his timeline isnt dependent on Bens existence), but Ben cannot kill Widmore (his timeline and existence is dependent on Widmore – they are related?) because to do so would create a new infinite loop.

    Also for the smae excerpt:

    “End of the Universe

    This theory involves two types of temporal loops. One type is the loop mentioned in the last paragraph, the ‘grandfather paradox’. For the rest of this paragraph, let’s call it the ‘infinite repeat’ loop, because it results in two different possibilities, infinitely repeating after one another. Another type of loop exists. It is the ‘infinite possibilities’ loop. In this loop, the loop changes every single time that the loop repeats. Think of this: Imagine that you ask your best friend to go back in time to before you were born and kill your granddad. Also, you had enough forethought to tell him, while he’s back there, to write a note to his future self to go back in time and kill the man who would be your granddad. Everything’s okay, right? Maybe not. When your friend is given the instruction to go and kill your granddad from you, he might do one thing. When he receives a note from his future self, he might do another. And if he does another thing during the second repeat, he must do a different thing the third. And the fourth. And the fifth. A change in one iteration of the loop would result in a change in the note, which would result in a change in the next iteration. Eventually, he’ll do something that ends up breaking down the loop (ie, forgetting to write himself a note). This will result in a infinite repeat loop starting. And as was already mentioned, infinite repeat loops may cause the universe to end.


    This theory allows for time travel to occur without any fear of paradox. But the price is not cheap. Under this theory, free will is an illusion. Nothing that you do is truly your own choice; everything was preordained at the beginning of the universe. If you accept this, then the ‘grandfather paradox’ vanishes. No matter how hard you tried, you could not go back in time and kill your grandfather. You would slip, or the gun would jam, or something else would pop up, but you could not kill him.

    1. This theory allows for some interesting events to happen, however. Let’s say that, while reading a history textbook, you noticed that a person who looked exactly like you saved George Washington during the Battle of Trenton. To meet this person, you go back in time. However, much to your dismay, you can’t find them anywhere. But, since you’re already in the past, you decide to see George. As you approach, you see that he is fighting the Battle of Trenton, and he is losing. You save him. When you return to the future, you ponder what has happened. Apparently, the history book was talking about you. Assuming that free will is an illusion, this could very easily happen.

    2. Here’s another example. One evening, you find a floppy disk on your desk which you’re sure you didn’t put there. You look at it, and sure enough, it’s the blueprints to a time machine. So you build the time machine, and send the blueprints to your past self. Now, where did the blueprints come from? There is no answer to this question. The blueprints simply ‘are’.”

    Option 1 is similar to the photo seen in 2007 for the DI with the losties in it.

    Option 2 is as seen with Locke and nemesis – Locke receives orders from Richard and gives him his compass before time travelling. Richard says he will need to die. However this is as a result of the future time-line involving the nemesis, who already knows Locke will die, and he will take his form. The compass Richard has is given to the nemesis and the request for it further falsely proves to Richard that the nemesis is Locke

    The infinite repeat loop seems to represent the outcome Eloise Hawking was talking about. Maybe the constant need to course correct ensures that infinite loop and end of universe scenario does occur. Something has changed in this iteration. Eloise apologises to Penny for Desmonds attack by Ben and blames her son Daniel. Daniel must have effected a change that has now altered the loop. The nuke may have prematurely neutralised the electromagnetic anomaly some 27 years before Desmond does. Those close to the neutralisation will experience the time travel phenomenon experienced by Desmond. They will appear in different time and spatial points and will need to establish a connection as Desmond had to. Maybe the reason for the white Lost screen at the end of the show.

    As for jamming guns – Michael was shown that this may be whats occurring with the Lost world. He tried to shoot himself and wasnt able to. Other situations like this may have occured and explained away as the island being a living force, rather than the protection of time laws

  5. I wrote a theory about this last week… about what exactly it means that the Losties showed up and did what they did.

    They didn’t cause the incident… that was already started while Jack and Sawyer were beating the crap out of each other. What they did was make all the other stuff possible. Without the Losties the incident would have gone on and destroyed everything. Without the Losties the DI wouldn’t know how to seal the breach if they needed to. So they enabled the protocol and the fail safe. Notice that Chang injured his arm. Notice that Radzinsky is determinted to run his experiments no matter what and he escaped.

    There is no paradox. Whatever happened, happened.

  6. I don’t believe the bomb ever went off. The white flash was the release of energy that they were drilling into. If you remember the same white flash occured at the end of season 2 when Desmond and company failed to push the button on time. I believe that this incident brings our losties in ’77 back where they belong in 2007. My reasoning for this is due to the producers saying that this time skipping end with season 5.

  7. I think (s)he is, yes.

    I did notice how they were sealing their own fate. The main reason I thought of this was because this seemed like a logical expansion from time travel.

    I doubt the white flash was from the electromagnetism, though there is a very likely possibility that the bomb was muffled in a way by the hatch and/or electromagnetism.

    I also, let me state, am not a time-loop believer. Its a very interesting idea but something about it just doesn’t seem right.

  8. I have the answer for why the island dissapeared, because it moved to another time! Remember the oreintation video for the orchid, Chang AKA Halliwax (whatever) conducted an experiment moving a rabbit through time, he said, “for the briefest little moments the animal will seem to dissapear but in reality…” we dont know what he said next but what did he mean by reality? When Ben moved the island, he dislodged it from time, so it seemed to dissapear but physically was still there but in a diff time, the island seemed to have dissapeared for only a little while, the island will seem to disapear only to external viewers because of time effects, but the island will always truly be physically there

  9. I think what Chang (Cheng?) was saying was that he was moving the bunny into the future, say 20 seconds. For 20 seconds, the bunny was “gone”, because he skipped that 20 seconds when he went 20 seconds into the future.

    So basically, do you mean Ben sent the island a day or two into the future? That makes sense then…

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