Nemesis ‘tips his hand’

Nemesis goes on a mission to recruit Sun and uses the ploy that he is present to reunite her with Jin. However, Sun doesn’t trust Nemesis and runs away from him. Nemesis allows Sun to remain behind, leaving her for the time being. I believe he will try to get Sun to go along with him again, now that Widmore has taken Jin as his captive. It’s the perfect ploy to ensure Sun’s compliance.

Nemesis gave up his plan to Claire in their conversation. Claire is concerned about whether her name appears on the wall in the cave, and asks Nemesis if he saw it. Claire also expresses concern about Aaron not knowing her and believing that Aaron will view Kate as his mother and not her when she leaves ‘the island’. Nemesis reassures Claire that although her name has been crossed off in the cave, that Kate’s name is also crossed off. He further provides Claire with the reason why he needs and wants Kate with him. He tells Claire that Kate can help convince the others to join him and return to the outside world, aboard the Ajira plane.

Although the viewers saw the name of Littleton present and crossed off in the cave, Nemesis is lying about not seeing the name himself because Claire is not a candidate. He also views Claire as ‘crazy’, so she is expendable in his eyes in the long run. According to Lostpedia, the name of Littleton does not pertain to Aaron because he is not physically present on ‘the island’. We also learned from the Paley Fest interview with Damon and Carlton that Kate’s name is present on the cave wall, crossed off, indicating that Kate is not a ‘candidate’ either. The reasons for Kate’s ineligibility are unknown.

The names in Nemesis’ group that are present are: Sawyer, Kwon (Jin), and Sayid, albeit Sayid’s state of infection and declaration of being ‘soulless’. They are candidates.

By Nemesis making this admission to Claire and also telling her that he needs all ‘six’ people whose names appear on the cave wall (who are all candidates) to accompany him on the Ajira plane and leave ‘the island’; he is inadvertently admitting that he will be pursuing the other three candidates that are presently aligned with Jacob. They are, Jack, Hurley and Sun. These are the six candidates in total. Nemesis also later confirms this information, in his conversation with Jin.

Given that Ms. Hawking sent six people back to ‘the island’ as the ‘06’, it would appear that Nemesis also requires six people in order to leave ‘the island’ with him for a successful escape. His success relies upon this occurring and he seems determined. We now have more meaning as to how events need to be recreated on Nemesis’ behalf. We can also determine that Jacob is also setting his sights on ‘one’ successful candidate from the six candidates to become his new recruit. I suspect that the successful recruit, will be somebody who refutes Nemesis’ offer and chooses to remain loyal to Jacob’s cause.

This also gives us further insight into the ‘playing field’ that Jacob and Nemesis are ‘playing’ on. They are both fighting for the control and the commitment from the same pool of candidates. Perhaps, these were always the ‘rules’ that they have been playing by. Similar to an ‘endless loop’.… that Nemesis says he is tired of playing and just wants to go home, if that is the truth.

Considering all of those names on the cave wall and in the lighthouse, in addition to the length of time this endless scenario has been playing out, at least in terms since the arrival of the Black Rock or (perhaps longer) why the end now appears to be imminent. Perhaps it’s time for Nemesis to win, or for Jacob to find a way that ends it all, permanently. Jacob seems to be the individual who has always won by slowly proving his point. Perhaps this is how it has always played out and may continue to play out, unless a final resolution to this lengthy ‘tug-of-war’ between them is finally achieved and a victory is scored. What that means in terms of ‘the losties’ and for the future of humanity, still remains to be seen.

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~ Contrary to popular misconception, karma has nothing to do with punishment and reward. It exists as part of our holographic universe’s binary or dualistic operating system only to teach us responsibility for our creations—and all things we experience are our creations. ~

22 thoughts on “Nemesis ‘tips his hand’

  1. Good stuff Dabs! But I don’t see Nemesis needing the candidates to leave with him. I see him needing them dead more than anything else. Nemesis lies even more than Ben did so I don’t think we can trust anything he says.

    Wasn’t Kate’s name not crossed off at the Lighthouse. It’s very confusing who is or isn’t a candidate.

  2. Hi Roland, you pose a very good question regarding Nemesis. We only have his words to go by at this point. Whether he is telling the truth or not remains to be seen. Let’s say that from my perspective, I am skeptical as to his intentions at this point. You are correct, he has lied and I will post more about those lies.

    One point is, we have been led to believe that ‘the Cave’ and ‘the Lighthouse’ may belong to both Jacob and Nemesis. Light being (Lighthouse for) Jacob and Dark being (The Cave for) Nemesis. Personally, I am unsure if this is accurate or not, but something to consider.

    Thanks for you comment, Roland!

  3. First off, THANK YOU for referring to Smokey as “Nemesis”. I thought I might be the only one who did so! I am so sick of seeing “MIB” everywhere, since the name simply refers to the color of the clothes who belong to the guy we don’t even know who might not even be the first one inside Smokey.. Clearly it bothers the heck out of me, so thanks.

    I think it’s interesting to remember Eloise’s statements about returning to the island, needing the 316 flight to be as similar to 815 as possible. Perhaps Nemesis needs the candidates who arrived via 316 to “leave”, doing a reverse of what Eloise was referring to? Or does he need the 6/7 “candidates” that we know of? He already “has” Locke, in a sense, so I suppose he needs just 5/6 now (Sun/Jin confusion mixes up the number).

  4. Good point about Eloise. I never knew if I could trust her. And I never made the link between Nemesis, who needs the O6 to leave, and Eloise, who did the opposite; sending the O6 back to the island.

    So that means Eloise is not on Nemesis’ side. But we still don’t know for sure if there really is a ‘good’ side, so on the other side it doesn’t say much…

  5. Hi Inquisitor, I have not been able to settle on any other name than Nemesis, so I suppose unless they actually provide us with another name, that’s who I will refer to him as.

    You bring up an excellent point about Ms. Hawking and her words. I believe that the same ‘rules’ to leaving ‘the island’ apply, albeit with different characters. I’ll post more on this.

  6. PS: thanks for your input Inquisitor!

    **Hi stone, I have some thoughts about Ms. Hawking and Charles Widmore and their roles in what is presently occurring and I’m certain we will gain further insight from tonight’s episode. As mentioned to Inquisitor, I feel that the ‘candidates’ are essential to the success of Nemesis’ plan.

    I think we are being misled about the nature of the struggle between Nemesis and Jacob. I don’t believe that it is in the same essence as God vs. Satan. I don’t think it could be simplified into such straightforward terms.

    I see this more as a ‘perception’ of good vs evil and how this would impact on the outside world. We have blind faith as has been demonstrated by Jacob’s followers and we have the promise of ‘knowledge’ from Nemesis. I’m certain that there are other reasons that make this whole scenario a life and death matter.

    Thanks for your input stone!

  7. Nemesis definitely wants the 6 candidates dead and he can’t kill them. However, it also seems he needs them to escape. I’m not sure just all of them being dead would help him escape because then wouldn’t there just be new candidates? Or now that Jacob is dead does that mean these are the last of the candidates?

    I believe he left Sun behind because he can’t make her go anywhere against her will, but maybe he could take away her ability to communicate causing her enough frustration to come his side (but he didn’t count on Jack’s influence).

    Perhaps he is trying to unite them all on the plane so the plane can crash and kill them all or he needs to them all united on his team and this will “win” the game for him and the game master will be forced to let him leave.

  8. Ms. Dabs, I would just like to say that even when I might not agree with your point of view, it’s such a pleasure to read such well-written and well thought-out theories from you.

    @ Inquisitor, Nemesis actually has been referred to as “the Man in Black” on the show (I think by Hurley), so I think you may have to get used to it. lol

    At first, I was convinced that Nemesis was going to try and turn the “candidates” on each other, in order for them to kill each other, since it seems he can’t kill them himself. So I was very surprised when Not-Locke said that he needed al 6 to leave with him.

    In fact, I would prefer it otherwise, since it made it seem as if the stakes were higher. And also, in Ab Aeterno, from Jacob’s conversation with Nemesis it sounded to me like he meant that he would kill everyone and anyone who would come to replace Jacob (candidates). I’m confused now.

  9. Oh, and I agree with Jacobsdoublewide.
    He didn’t take Sun, because he couldn’t force her to go with him. It seems as they have to ‘choose’ to align on his side.

  10. JacobsDoubleWide, Nemesis may very well like to kill ‘the candidates’. However, this would defeat his purpose in any attempt to leave ‘the island’. I have to believe that this is his goal.

    What he would do with them, if he were to succeed is a whole other story. Until that time, he is doing whatever he can to win them over to his side. I think you are correct in saying that as soon as he was finished with them, he would in fact kill them.

    Regarding Sun, both Nemesis and Jacob are confined to the same rules. It has to be the candidates who make the ‘choice’ whether to follow them or not. I believe this has been well established already.

    Thanks for your input.

  11. oompaloompa, my theory is based upon what we actually viewed in the episode.

    Nemesis was reminded by ‘the child’ who showed up when he was with Sawyer, that he couldn’t kill him. My understanding of this was, that this applied to all of the ‘candidates’.

    Both Jacob and Nemesis have six available ‘candidates’ to win over to their side. As it stands from the last episode, Nemesis will have a more difficult time in getting Sun to follow him.

    Pitting the candidates against one another, may still happen in some regard. I don’t expect that the writers or the show will disappoint in that regard.

    Thanks for your kind words!

  12. Great post, thanks for sharing. I believe that Nemesis needs the 6 candidates alive to achieve his goal – almost as some sort of ‘time constant’ that exists between time points or realities and allows travel from one to the other (like what happened with the ’06’ that Hawking sent). In this case, I believe Nemesis is trying to get to the alternate reality, where the island does not exist, allowing him to ‘escape’. By doing this, I believe it will become the ‘true’ reality, and the current true reality will ‘cease to exist’, like Widmore said.

  13. Dabs, I would love if Lost turns out to be about the perception of good and evil as you say rather than about good and evil. It would be a much fresher viewing point of things. I’ve been hoping it would be something like that but I haven’t been able to put words on it myself. 🙂

  14. For example, look at Dogen, a man who I find somewhat sympathetic but who has turned into someone who thinks it’s ok to pass swift death sentences just because he deems someone to be potentially evil or alien.

    His judgement seems clouded. And not only his judgement, apparently also the viewer’s judgement if he or she like me have thought that perhaps Dogen is doing the right thing anyway.

    The show could turn out to be an interesting comment to what is going on in the world.

  15. Clairespeanutbutter, I love your thoughts and reasoning behind why Nemesis needs the candidates, preferably alive in order to leave ‘the island’.

    What you say about the alternate reality becoming the ‘true’ reality and the present reality ‘ceasing’ to exist is extremely valid. It is a logical conclusion to draw. Especially, after tonight’s episode.

    Great thoughts, and thanks for your input!

  16. ilie, it is quite difficult to place our thoughts into words, but I think you did an excellent job by using Dogen as an example. His story was about his son was so compelling, but his actions seemed to be otherwise. How can we possibly judge his actions when we don’t know the end game?

    We all would like to think that we know what constitutes good and evil. Lost has shown us, that unless we possess all of the information, it is much more difficult to place a definitive label on the nature of good and evil.

    Our perceptions might be altered in the opposite direction, if we had all of the details. I suspect that this is exactly what might happen in the long run!

    Thanks for your input and comment!

  17. Dabsi…Great post. A lot to think about. Good thinking on the candidates.

    Now for a bunched of jumbled thoughts…

    I was thinking about how he could get Sun, and maybe its as simple as using the fatc that Widmore has Jin…or maybe now using Sayid to get Jin back, and taking Jin to Sun this time…hmm…

    The comments by everyone were great.
    Clairespeanutbutter…wow…good thinking.

    Maybe He just has to get to where the island sunk…if he finds the manifest, he can find someinformation about the flight path, and learn the islands location.
    And if he can get to where the island should be, and the island is moved again…than possibly with the right movement of the wheel, have it pop up over the sunken island, looking similar to the comic book the Walt was reading with one city floating over another one…

    Thats kind of nuts…second option…

    He gathers up all the important members of team Losties, and proceeds to either the new island…not likely…or to Faradays “lab”…or maybe studio/Widmore labs/Ann Arbor/The Lampost…who knows.

    Using Faradays crazy new intelligence, they conscious travel to the island…but when…?

    I say 2004…press the reset button…or maybe dont press it…hmmm….

    Sorry, posting entirely without thought, just adrenaline off tonights great episode…

    And one more thing…damn it was good to see “our” Charlie!!!

    Good post Dabsi…and good comments by everyone else!

  18. Hi AES, I am wondering if getting Sun to go along with Nemesis is entirely out of the question, seeing as Widmore definitely has Jin’s understanding and cooperation.

    However, Nemesis has lied to Claire, so it isn’t out of the question, that he would also lie to Sun. He might tell her that Jin is in trouble or something along those lines.

    As for Desmond, he wants the Manifest because he now believes what Charlie showed him and what Daniel shared with him. He has ‘seen a glimpse’, as Charlie put it. While they all seem to be living the life they would want, it appears that all is not well in paradise. They would trade it for love.

    If Desmond can get the Flight Manifest than he can attempt to make the other ‘losties’ aware and jog their conscious memories.

    I have no guesses as to how Desmond might bring it all together in the end. Having the ‘edge’ of being conscious of both realities will help him to succeed. This is why he is so cooperative with Sayid. He’s a man on a mission now!

    Thanks for your input and comment!

    Tonight’s episode was awesome!

  19. @Stone:

    You said that you thought that Eloise was not on Nemesis’ side, but wouldn’t sending the candidates back to the island help Nemesis, since he needs them in order to leave? I am wondering if Eloise’s meddling in time is what caused the rift with Charles in the first timeline. He seemed as if he was rather upset to have lost a son on the island, as he so nicely explained to Desmond before locking him in a box and electro-magnetizing him! Maybe that is why he has been desperate to get back to the island–so he can try to change the path of time, and if so, I wonder why Eloise would be opposed to that? Maybe the only universe that has Daniel living is the one with her as the host of the party, but she cannot make the Charles of the other universe understand it. Or maybe she can now….

  20. Odette, I can’t offer a response to you on behalf of stone’s thoughts.

    Ms. Hawking hasn’t stated that she is opposed to what Desmond is doing. She tells him that it is too soon to proceed. I’m not sure what her and Widmore’s plans actually are regarding Desmond.

    As for Widmore and Hawking losing Daniel on ‘the island’, it is difficult to know where they stand on that issue, as they were both responsible for sending Daniel there in the first place, knowing they were both sacrificing their son, willilngly. This is one area, that I still find somewhat puzzling.

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