Jacob’s Mother was not Smokey. More simple proof.
I’m not sure how some of you made it this far into the series, seeing that this is a more intellectual show. There have been numerous post about how Jacob’s Mother was definitely Smokey because of her attitude and ability to fill in a well and take out an entire camp of people.
Lets put on our thinking caps.
1) Smokey doesn’t bleed. Jacob’s Mom bleeds when she is stabbed.
2) We have seen Smokey summoned by someone as simple as Benjamin Linus. So what makes us all think it’s impossible for Jacob’s Mother, who seems to be somewhat special, to summon Smokey. If anyone can do it, it would definitely be her.
3)Jacob’s Mother’s skeleton is in the cave. Once again, Smokey replicates a body, doesn’t take over a body. So if it was stabbed and killed, their would be no skeleton in a cave still. Some people have theorized that she was faking. Not possible. You can’t fake your own rotting decomposing body in a cave.
I’m sure there is more obvious proof. But this is all I can think of right now. I’m just tired of reading the same theory over and over that makes no sense. Some of the theories I read are so well thought out, and I’m digging it, up until the point where they say Smokey was Jacob’s Mom. It is possible though, that maybe the Smoke Monster had recruited her somehow, and helped her out at the scene.
Sorry if I seem like I’m attacking anyone, I just feel like we can do better. Either way, Lost consumes my ability to think about the real world. And I’m thankful for the hundreds of hours I’ve wasted at work reading all of your theories. Thank You, and Namaste!
All valid points PutMeOn815, but one of the biggest questions that I have right now is what happened to Smokey when the island jumps, or goes back in time? Did Smokey go back with it? And if scanning or becoming someone in the present and the island goes back in time, can he then use that information by taking on the image of that person in the past? (think Christian in the well) If yes, then he has the upper hand to manipulate the past to effect the future.
With that being said, I think we did just see the creation of Smokey! Smokey did NOT exist before this event… But, if the answers to my questions above are yes, then it’s not impossible that Mom was Smokey! Or atleast of portion of who we saw was Smokey!
“And you have no idea what I’ve gone through to be here!” then becomes a much more meaningful and powerful line!
Yeah…Ill back you on this one.
The simple way to look at it is the “game” and the “stone”…
It would take SO much away, to have MIB be the monster…Why the charades with Richard, with Kate, and especially with Jacob.
MIB…as John Locke throws the white stone into the ocean.
Some people said that it was because he thinks like the person he looks like…HE LOOKS LIKE JOHN LOCKE!
Honestly, it took me about 24 hours afterward to really think it over…and it really doesnt make ANY sense for the monster to be MIB, and not the other way around.
NOW…I have said that at the best, I may be able to stretch that mom WAS the monster at some point, and that MIB is actually the chosen one, since he is tricked into killing her…which makes him eventually become the monster.
The only real debatable topic in my eye…is the destruction of the well and the killing of MIBs people…thats it…
Everything else points to her not being the monster…
Good post…thank you.
I agree.
I believe smokey was created when Jacobs brother went into the light.
I think Jacobs mother was there to protect the island, she has a special gift, the ability to make certain things happen (ie. Jacob and his broter unable to kill each other)
She passed this gift onto Jacob and I think it was given to her once from someone else.
Until I’m proven otherwise, Smokey was created when Jacobs brother went into the light. They did that scene for a reason, to show us how Smokey became to be, and why MIB is who he is today.
Jacobs mother was capable of murder, she was crazy, she could do just about anything if she put her mind to it. One of those being killing the rest of the people and setting fire to their camp. You don’t need to be a big pillar of smoke to do that.
those are good points. She definitely had help filling in that well. plus, she killed their mom with a rock, not very smokie like (although Jose/MIB killed widmore’s guys with a neck snap).
It seems the Island’s protectors can either be a black stone or white stone (leaning bad or leaning good) but that doesn’t mean they can’t protect. The mom leaned dark but still protected the Island just through violence and hate for man. Jacob is trying to rule through free will and peace and faith in man. He obviously thinks that by having faith in man he can destroy evil or prevent evil from destroying existence. That’s why I can hate on this episode because there is still so much more to it all that we are going to see.
I agree that Smokey cannot be Jacob’s Mother…I don’t see any support for that assertion.
My take on what happened when MiB floated into the light-cave: MiB’s being/soul/essence got separated from his physical body and took on the form of the Smoke Monster….or rather, was “taken up” by the smoke monster…depends on how you look at it.
Hence, MiB’s body was found dead on the other side of the cave by Jacob, but Smokey could easily take on a replica of MiB’s form as we see when Jacob and MiB talk on the beach, etc. My support for this is when Jacob asks his mother what would happen if he went into the light..and she said “a fate worse than death” or something like that. Well, turning into a pillar of smoke for all eternity kind of fits that description…
Also, if I am right, then what Jacob did to his brother would sure explain his extreme hatred of him…because until that point, even though they lived separate lives on the island, they still talked normally and were cordial despite disagreeing about leaving the island..
I meant “can’t hate”….or Jacob just feels so guilty about releasing the smoke that he his determined to destroy and/or not let it escape the Island. So he has 2 jobs now, protecting the light and guarding the smoke.
No matter what you think, it sure looks like Smokie killed the tribe of people. There is not one way in hell that an older woman (or man for that matter), even in peak physical condition, could slay an entire group of hunters and savages unless that group was all in a very deep sleep, which is possible I suppose. But c’mon, smokie’s still an easier answer. She might’ve been a ninja, or Rambo’s previous life, but I saw no guns or throwing stars, so nix that right now as well.
So since it’s completely, and embarrassingly impossible for the woman to be smokie, I guess now we’re all thinking smokie existed before MIB became it. How else would she have something to summon in the first place?
Putmeon815 – I don’t consider any theories to be ridiculous until I see solid evidence negating it. There are some theories that are complete assumptions (like the old white smokie idea) that are very easy to hate on. But you can’t tell me this show is giving us any reason to believe any particular way right now. If you’re right, and the lady summoned smokie to take them all out, what’s that mean then? Smokie’s been around before MIB. That’s not entirely different than the people that think SHE could have been it as well. It’s a slightly different idea in the long run to what I, and a few others have been thinking.
I consider griping over the details in a few theories right now to be a little unneeded. Especially since there’s no substantial evidence to go either way at this point. Sorry for being the author of one of those theories that made you wanna write this post in this fashion.
I agree, Mother is not Smokey.. What’s confusing though is, there were 2 scenes that made her seem Smokey-ish:
1. As MIB was in the well working on digging to the light, when Mother visited him for the last time, the camera made it seem like she didn’t climb down the ladder; she just kind of magically wisked to the bottom of well..
2. And of course, all the villagers being killed and the well being buried.
For the second scene, I’m believing what Putmeon815 suggested; she summoned Smokey probably like Ben Linus did. For the first scene, well maybe she did climb down ladder after all..
Here’s the crux though; if she did summon Smokey, then Smokey coming out of the cave after MIB’s death wasn’t the creation of Smokey.
She definitely wasn’t / isn’t the smoke monster. The reason why she said MIB “thank you” when he killed her was because that way she would be free from being the protector of the island and could finally rest.
When Mom hit MIB against the wall in the place of the donkey wheel , I think she killed MIB. But just for a short while, as he couldn’t be killed thanks to the gift she gave them. Jacob threw MIB to the light and MIB got killed for some time. He would come back to life if it wasn’t for the fact that he got near the light. That made him lose his body and become a smoke monster.
MIB told Richard many years later that Jacob made him lose his humanity. Also, MIB wanted to kill Jacob for making him that way and for not letting him leave the island. Why would Mom want to kill Jacob?
It makes complete sense that MIB is the smoke monster.
I hope someone who believes she was posts…
Im at about 99% NOT smokey…but the destruction at the camp leaves a possibility that she could have been at least working with the monster, if not actually the monster. Id still like to hear every angle.
But as for MIB…I definitely think that he is the monster, and not the monster in his form.
I have to leave the possibility that she could have been until the destruction is explained…which it may not be if she wasnt the monster…
The bottom line…if anything…the people gain control of the smoke, not the other way around…in my opinion.
Thats why I said that she may have very well handed down the torch to MIB secretly, making Jacob believe it was him, thus keeping the monster, and the “security system” on the island.
I dont think Jacob could protect the island alone…thats the thing.
He was easily manipulated. His brother was not, which is what I think makes him special. He knew there was something across the sea…and he was right…to an extent.
Good posts everyone…
OK its been quite cool discussing who is smokie etc.
But more important questions exist that we are still confused by.
What the hell is the island during that epsiode Across the Sea?? Is it still this time travelling vessel?? What is its purpose?
Second, who the hell is this woman (mother) living alone in a cave with these weird powers? Is she another time traveller? I think this highly likely.
Secondly, if the mother (claudia) of jacob and MIB is from a long time ago (roman times) her english is bloody good no?? The writers went out of their way with Richard to explain how he learnt english etc.
Now EVERYBODY speaks english.
Seems strange to me.
I think half the problems on this show and the frustrating lack of answers is to do with the fact that ABC made them shorten the number of series they had in mind and decide on 6 seasons. Imagine if they had 12 seasons. They could develop MIB, Jacob, Claudia and Mother’s story etc etc and really draw these out. Surely all the 1970s, Egyptian times, Roman times etc etc would have had seasons dedicated to them.
I still want to know, does Across the Sea change Doomsday theories?
Mother could still be someone fighting fate/the light, which is basically God or Destiny which is off island and threatens to course correct any changes in the course of history being made by time travelling humans.
Sorry wrote too much: Brain dump. But hope I get my ideas across that we have to dig deeper about the essence of the island, the light etc
Or are we like the humans in Lost who just want to dig, dig and dig and “they found nothing” as Flocke said to Desmond??
@Nachochris,
In the beginning of the episode, “Mother” and Jacob’s real mom were speaking Latin to eachother (actually I think Mother speakin Latin, Jacob mom speaking Spanish, but they understood eachother..)
They switched it to English suddenly just so we didnt need to read captions and actors didnt have to speak latin whole episode…The writers wanted us to believe/pretend they were speaking Latin/Spanish the entire time…
I’m glad it’s only 6 seasons. Look at the actors aging. Could you imagine filming the finale 12 yrs after the original and in the lost timeline its only a few yrs. Sawyer already is looking kinda old to me. And lets not forget about Walt.
I believe she arrived at the island identical to everyone else. Crashed there. I picture this going back until the beginning of time. We know the island goes in cycles. Each time the purge gets more complicated. We are probably witnessing yet another purge. However this is the largest messiest one yet.
I commented and it’s not showing. Should be comment #6 if it ever decides to show up.
I also commented and it’s not showing… I may have been comment #1.
Why would anyone give this thread a low ranking (star chart), when not one person has disagreed. Don’t get it.
@PutMeOn815, maybe because your first sentence was a little demeaning..people will just read something like that, give theory low ranking, and move on to another post…I didn’t low rank you, I didnt feel insulted..but I’m sure other people did, especially those who believe Momma is Smokey! I had a low ranking before, I believe it was because I was insulting to the show writers with some of my wording, mostly playing around though, but people didnt think it was funny and just ranked me low and barely even commented..I felt bad so… I’m just more cautious now..
Just wait
Alright, guess the comment’s not gonna show up, so I’ll just say this……
Putmeon815 – “Put our thinking caps on”? What you said in the post is a rather obvious way of “thinking”. If you believe everything the writers are showing us, I’d be right on the same path as you are. It doesn’t require much use of a “thinking cap” though. It’s just taking what the writers give us. Which is fine if that’s your style, you’re at least being logical. But it’s not really theorizing now is it?
If this season’s taught me anything, it’s to NOT believe what you hear from these characters. Flocke lies, Jacob misleads, and this lady was insane to put it mildly. When a severely infected (or just violent) woman like mother wants to say something to Jacob, I’m not believeing a word she says. When Claudia appears to only MIB and completely avoids her other son, Jacob, I’m not trusting it to be Claudia.
As we all know, “Smokie doesn’t bleed”. I guess we also somehow know that it can’t pretend to bleed in order to properly set things in motion for Jacob to throw MIB into the light. Sure, it’s doubtful, but it’s an idea that’s not just sitting there right in front of us. What you’re saying is that Smokie still exists before MIB turns into it. She had to summon it right? If you ask me, whether or not SHE’S smokie at all is a little irrelevant, and it was just an idea.
It kills me when seasoned theorists come on here and pretend they’ve never seen a theory before. People’s theories about this show are rarely ever plausable, we all know that. I’d also venture to say that sitting there and believing everything the show presents to us wont get you very far either, especially this season.
My 2 cents (more like 20 cents after my rambling is compmlete):
I don’t think that Mother is the Smoke Monster. I don’t think that the Smoke Monster existed until Jacob’s brother entered the cave (I have a recent theory about this, posted the day before this one)
One question that remains is – how did the villagers die?
If I recall, they were ‘burned’ according to Jacob’s brother.
I’m thinking back to Widmore’s man, the one that got zapped by the electromagnetism by mistake (in the cabin that they put Desmond in). That man was burned to death by the electromagentism released by the Caduceus coil.
Along those lines – I think Mother manipulated the light from Jacob’s brother’s “well” (the well/hole with the donkey wheel that Jacob’s brother revealed to Mother)..
Mother has a connection to the light, she is nearly ‘all-knowing’ (maybe because she has tasted the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge), so I wouldn’t be surprised if she knew how to release the ‘light/magnetism’ from the well (especially since there was already an opening to it) in a devastating wave that wiped out the village, AND THEN caused the collapse of the well on itself (recall the boulders, etc in the hole), the same way the hatch did… (remember the fail safe key and the hatch implosion).
I realize there would normally have to be metal present for the inward collapse to occur, and i’m not sure if there was enough metal around to cause that collapse, but even without that hard evidence I’m still leaning in this direction – that the release of the energy burned the village and villagers to death and then caused the inward collapse of the well somehow….
So – Mother is special? Yes, I believe so. Manipulative? Yes. Good. Yes. Evil. Yes.
She is the Smoke Monster? No, not the smoke monster that we know.
But she’s no saint either… fallen from grace and bound to protect “the source”, or so it seems…
Just a tip, but someone who opens with “I’m not sure how some of you made it this far into the series, seeing that this is a more intellectual show” probably shouldnt say nameste at the end of his post. Its like slapping a bunch of people in the face, and then tell them to have a nice day.
If you dont agree with someone’s ideas, thats great, but dont drop a “im amazed you walk and chew gum at the same time” kinda line.
shut up great forsaken…(slap, slap, slap…)
seriously…have a wonderful evening…
I kid…
Putmeon…this occurs because people dont have to comment, to actually rate…happens to me all the time. Possibly no comment due to what greatforsaken points out…
I dont see anything wrong with it…but if I disagreed with you, I would probably lash out or ignore too…human nature…
(puts gum back into mouth after typing)
ok fair enough about the language comments, I see what u mean in making it easier for audience/actors etc.
They did the same thing with Sayid in “Solitary”…
She seems to know a whole lot about that light … think she was A Smokey and MIB the new/improved one. (Maybe goes back to those who speculate there is more than one.)
Neither Smokey was real Mom, though. Only MIB could see her (like Hurley), not everyone (like Flocke). Plus, there was no advantage for Mother to give MIB all that info.
Also, why did she leave all MIBs people alive all that time? Seems if she had no problem bashing in the skull of a sweet new mom offing that whole group of people sooner woulda’ been no problem.
I think smokey is like the hart of the island that is why he can not leave and why he can not die when jacobs brother went into the light it set is free i think in the last episode there going to kill it and the island will die and none of it will off never happend that is why they have been showing us the other reality what do u think
I think some of you have mentioned that one woman alone couldn’t have destroyed MiB’s “village” so that Smokey must have done it…I would have to disagree for two reasons.
One reason is that Smokey’s mode of operation is hardly setting things on fire… The village was shown as burnt to the ground/on fire…Smokey would hardly need to resort to arson to kill all those people…it would be a simple enough task for him. Arson doesn’t fit his M.O.
Secondly, Mother could have easily just lit all the huts/tee-pees on fire in the middle of the night quietly..therefore, I think it IS possible she did it all on her own. Granted, if she did do it by herself, it is quite an accomplishment considering people must have tried to run when they realized everything was burning to the ground and she must have been able to stop and kill them.
But if she had enough powers to keep Jacob and MiB from killing each other, then I’m sure she could voodoo up some way to kill the stragglers too.
Regarding how the villagers died, see my comment (#21)
In brief:
I think it was the electomagnetic energy released from the ‘well’ (the hole with the donkey wheel that Jacob’s brother showed Mother). The villagers were burned just like Widmore’s man was – the one who got trapped in the cabin meant to test Desmond with the electromagentic energy.
(1) Either they did it to themselves by accident, just like Dharma was about to do while drilling, or
(2) Mother released it on them (she’s not the Smoke Monster, but something else – she’s definitely not just human either)….
putmeon – my guess is the low score is probably indicitive of the tone of your theory (to forsaken’s point), not the content. good points are made, but not everyone has a thick skin, especially when in it this deep and throwing ideas out there to the mercy of others to critique. but to each his own, its still a very relevant post that drummed up a lot of good conversation.
PutMeOn thank you so much for doing this post. IMO Smokey has existed on the Island well before Jacob, Brother, and Mommy Dearest. I totally agree that Mommy Dearest summons the Smoke Monster to take care of the villagers. Remember, In season one the Smoke Monster was described by Rousseau as the Island’s security system. So perhaps it was only a tool at the disposal of the Island’s guardian. When Jacob attacked his brother and sent his body into the light Smokey absorbed Brother’s consciousness and was released from confinement, like a genie from a bottle.
I think Clairespeanutbutter has a good idea about the villages destruction also.