Geez, Jacob

This guy’s really getting on my nerves.

First off, I find what he’s doing for the good of humanity to be very courageous, and very chivalrous (I’ve waited 29 years to use that word). I know how hard it is to admit when you’re wrong, or that you did something you shouldn’t have….It’s safe to say that Jacob did something pretty awful, but he’s owning up to it. In the grand scheme of things, I now believe he means well, and that’s something I’ve yet to believe prior to “What they died for”. We all make mistakes, I guess that includes the clumsy and skull-breaking Jacob as well.

But wait just a minute! What’s all this, “Well you see guys, your lives were all empty and lonely and there was something missing. So that’s why I brought you to the island.” Did Jacob seemingly forget that he ruined Sawyer when he was just a child? Poor Sawyer was at a pivotal and vulnerable point in his life, and Jacob CHOSE A PATH FOR HIM to become vengeful and angry.

Around the fire, Jacob told them something like, “I wanted you all to have choices, something I never had.”…..*sniff sniff* Yeah right Jacob!! Why do I say that? Because he’s lying. Sure, he never had much of a choice as a child. A lot of his childhood was controlled in a way. I think he’s lying in the fact that he never wanted the losties to have a choice either. Everything was always set in stone. Everything played out the way he wanted. If he was able to force them all to the island with a simple touch, who knows what else he was forcing?

Jacob’s either lying during that scene, there’s a huge hole in the story, or there’s STILL more to it all (which I’d prefer seeing).

I must be the most backwards minded person on this site. I really enjoyed “Across the Sea” while “What they died for” just didn’t do it for me. Not a bad episode by any means, but I wasn’t floored by any means. Did we really just witness Jacob ask everyone around a fire, “So, who’s wants the job?”. I loved hearing the reason they were all brought to the island in the first place. That was a much needed answer. But the fire scene was all pretty simple wasn’t it? I just figured the moment we found the next candidate would’ve been more, I don’t know, interesting. Jacob had to wait this long to ask them all? What if Hurley never ran after young Jacob to get the ashes back? Guess the world would’ve ended huh? And I guess those ashes magically allow everyone to see dead Jacob now huh? Whatever. There goes the importance of Hurley’s ability. I guess I’m just bitchin again. “Sorry” to shallow readers. “Lost is still awesome!” if it makes you feel better.

Anyway, I don’t think Jacob’s here to ruin humanity anymore, but I do think he’s still playing his little game of “You’re gonna do what I want you to do, and you’re gonna think you’re the one making the choice in the meantime. HA HA HA HA HA.” If he still hasn’t fizzled out yet, we’ll see on Sunday.

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So......I guess LOST was a good show.....WAS a good show.

32 thoughts on “Geez, Jacob

  1. When I saw the title I expected a bash on the fact that after all this time Jacob simply asks ‘who wants the job’.

    My answer would have been that they needed the pain, yadda yadda, to get where they had to go. But then you mention Jacob’s influence on poor vulnerable Sawyer…you got a point there. I also agree that the fire scene was a bit simple…’but you can still have the job if you want’…it all sounded a bit simple.

    But on the other side; during this (and even previous seasons) it became pretty clear who was going to be the candidate… So I guess they never meant to make that scene jaw-dropping…just to finally settle things up.

    Although I also hope there’s a bit more to it… Now that I’m thinking of it. The Jacob-storyline has, until now, had nothing to do with the alternate timeline storyline.. Curious at how that will play out.

    Anyway, I understand your feelings lol. I guess we’ll have to wait a few more days…but I’m not very confident on any major twists that cuold be coming in the finale..

  2. Yeah, I’ve given up on the twists too man. If one happens, great, but I guess the writers just aren’t too fond of shocking people.

    I see your reasoning behind the lackluster “Jack getting the job” moment. I suppose any introduction to it wouldn’t have been very jawdropping, because as you say, it was most likely going to be Jack anyway.

    Angive made some good points in another post…..Why did Jacob have to order the others to mess with the losties SO much? They killed, kidnapped, tortured, and threatened the losties since season 1. If anything, it helped motivate them to LEAVE the island. I’m just not buying it. This show just took a proverbial pee all over my face.

  3. If his touch didn’t bring them all to the island, what could have? Jacob summons a lot of the people to the island. He admitted it before a quite a few times. He admitted to bringing the losties there in last night’s episode. Supposedly, MIB doesn’t really want them there according to their conversation on the beach in “The Incident.” I’m just going off of the most likely scenario right now.

    It’s possible MIB brought them to the island, and Jacob just touched them so they’d survive the crash. I don’t see that being the case because everyone can still die anyway.

    I hate when people blindly assume things too, but at this point, we can pretty much gaurantee we’re not getting answers to a lot of things anyway. So assumptions is all I can go off of.

    Maybe the lighthouse brought them all there too, but I’m not seeing the significance. Either way, the losties were summoned by Jacob.

  4. There were some cool moments, it just seemed like nobody was believable. I don’t mean acting-wise. It just seemed like everyone was lying this season, even crazy foster mom.

    It’s tough to find someone to root for when you get terrible one liners from people like Lapidus, or you’re listening to lies from everyone else. Which is the lesser of two evils there? I’m glad Jack and Hurley have had proper screen time this year. They’re the only two people I was believing for a while.

  5. I agree that Jacob screwed over Sawyer (and Kate for that matter. By interceding with the shop owner, Kate never learned the lesson she surely would have had the shopkeeper actually called her mother. She went on to continue to steal and eventually kill.)

    As far as Jacob using the Others to torment the survivors I’m not sure if it was Jacob. Part of my reasoning for doubting that the lists were really Jacob’s centers on Eko. The Others tried to kidnap him because he was on the list. (The list supposedly chosen by Jacob.) But later smokie kills him. If he was a candidate chosen by Jacob why was smokie able to kill him? Shouldn’t he have been protected?

    Of course the list could have been created by Ben pretending to get the names from Jacob. Ben was supposedly the only one who could hear Jacob, but later he admits that he never met him. So it could have simply been a ploy to allow Ben to control the Others. (Of course this brings Richard into question. He’s an ‘adviser’, an intermediary between Jacob and whoever he chooses, but somehow Richard had no idea that Ben couldn’t hear Jacob? Wouldn’t Jacob, at some point, tell Richard that Ben isn’t doing what he wants done?

    Of course it also could have been MIB pretending to be Jacob. He manipulated Ben easily enough to get him to do what he wanted him to do when he returned to the island so maybe he was at work before that as well. Of course we still have to wonder why Jacob wouldn’t tell Richard that something was wrong in that scenario too.

    All in all I’m still not sure Jacob is entirely good. He killed a lot of people in his effort to get his 6 candidates to the island. There were a lot of innocent deaths in all of the various crashes (the Black Rock, 815, Ajera, etc.) Why are those lives disposable and less important than Kate, Jack etc.?

    And lastly the idea that Jack taking the job was a let down – I agree! It was very obvious and almost everyone I know predicted Jack would be involved in helping Jacob. So why not throw a twist into it? Why not have Sawyer take the job? Ben seems ready to kill them all and MIB telling him to start with Sawyer would have made some sense. A quick attack on Sawyer would allow Jack to try to help him and in his last breath he gives Jack the role we expected. Maybe it’s too corny that way. Whatever. I’m looking forward to whatever the story is that they have for us next Sunday.

  6. Jukin – You know your stuff. I could never pay attention to who was on what list. Your line “Wouldn’t Jacob, at some point, tell Richard that Ben isn’t doing what he wants done?” makes too good of sense.

    I doubt MIB was able to look like Jacob because Jacob wasn’t dead at the time. So was Richard just dropping the ball constantly throughout seasons 1 – 5, or was Jacob just really that nasty to everyone?

    Like you say, Ben could’ve intervened. MIB could’ve persuaded Ben in other ways aside from looking like Jacob anyway. But are we ever getting any evidence that Jacob wasn’t the only one bossing around the others?

  7. I’m waiting for someone to say “Jacob didn’t force anyone to do anything, he just nudged them in a certain direction.”

    So Jacob just got extremely lucky with getting everyone onto the island, exactly when he wanted them there?

    If I secretly wished someone to move to Venezuela at the age of 57, would I simply touch their shoulder and see if it happens? That would be a waste of my life, because it obviously wouldn’t work. Jacob knew what he did to these people. I just don’t see any choice in there.

  8. Ok…I cant help myself…“Jacob didn’t force anyone to do anything, he just nudged them in a certain direction.”

    Now take the gun that someone else hands you…and shoot me…but blame them for making the choice to shoot me for you…

  9. Perhaps it is more than just luck with Jacob – it’s probability. Didn’t the Smoke Monster say something like “Jacob’s into numbers” when talking about the names and numbers in the cave?

    With all the crossed-out names, etc., isn’t it possible that Jacob touched ALL of those people? (we just didn’t see it)? And so they were (for whatever reason, call in determinism) course corrected to the island. One by one they are crossed off or killed, until we get to the last few potential candidates, and then the final one… and so, out of 180 or 360 or whatever number of possibilites, it gets narrowed down to one candidate… Seems more plausible….

    Regarding Jacob’s motives – he said to Jack et al that they were flawed, and so he brought them to the island – it needed them as much they needed it. Yet in the the ALT (mirror-image) reality, which, in a way, is what would have occurred if Jacob never touched the candidates (because there is no island), we see the Losties living fuller lives, still with flaws, but making better choices, being better people. In that light, it seems that they are better off without the island and without Jacob’s touch….

  10. This scene really makes you think about early in the season, “Lighthouse”, I believe, that Hurley asks Jack why he came back, and Jack replies…”Because I was broken, and I was stupid enough to believe that this place could fix me.”

  11. Chiefof16

    I just wanted to point out one more thing on Ben, that makes me believe that Smokie manipulated him throught his time as an other. Ben mentions yesterday that this is the room where I summoned the smoke monster and said something to the effect of I guess it summound me. I think smokie was manipulating ben the whole time and topped it off with Ben killing Jacob.

    I liked the episode and really didn’t mind how the selection took place. I feel that we have been trained by the writers to exepect the unexpected and more questions. I think its good we finally get some direct answer no matter how obvious it was.

    I realy hope that the NHL doesn’t schedule the Hawks during Sunday’s finale.

  12. I think Sawyer chose his own path & Jacob had nothing to do with Sawyer’s dad killing his mother an then himself.

    I think Young James CHOSE HIS OWN path when he started writing his letter to the real Mr. Sawyer on his own, Jacob just nudged him in a way but who is to say it was bad…Sawyer may have become bad but is that really Jacobs fault?

    Jacob helped Kate not get in trouble & what not & seemed to steer her in the right direction but she is probably the worst of all, well Sayid might be the worst but she isnt so sweet.

  13. Damn, you’re right Chief, we are one the same page here for sure.

    in response to Jukin about Ben making the Lists – I don’t think so.

    Correct me if I’m wrong please – but doesn’t Ben meantion the Lists to Jacob before he kills him..?

    Something like: “I did everything you asked for, You gave me all these Lists, but never even bothered to see me once”

    Which to this day I’m still wondering – why the Hell didn’t He..?
    Apparently Widmore – the Former Leader got to meet with him – why not Ben
    why keep him in the dark, without as much as having Richard Tell Ben the truth
    about Nemesis – why shouldn’t the Leader know these things..?
    Even Widmore said he didn’t know much about Nemesis more than Ghost stories and scary sounds in the jungle.

    Richard is supposed to be an advisor of sorts – but he haven’t been shown to do much advising – he sucks when it comes to crucial intel anyway..

    And btw, in the End – What WAS Richard’s purpose..? Ok, we didn’t SEE him die, but I think he’s a goner – now, Richard is about to kill himself(try anyway)
    because he was beyond despair – Jacob had promised to reveal the big plan, his purpose when the time was right –
    but since Jacob is now dead, he believes Jacob failed and must have been wrong about everything – making Richard’s 140 year long stay on the Island pointless…
    Totally without purpose..and therefore he wants Jack’s help to die..

    However, instead Jack reignites his faith in Jacob, and we’re lead to believe that Jacob is still on the roll(which at least We know he somewhat is) – in the bomb on the sub-case masked by the fact that
    Sawyer pulled the wires – not showing faith.

    My question is – what was Richard ultimate purpose? Jacob never got to Tell him before he died – and why the Hell didn’t he Tell Richard about Nemesis/Locke
    when he so obviously knew ahead what was happening, right..? He wasn’t dead in the cab when he convinced Hurley to go back to the Island, he knew they would need “ID” for Dogen at the temple
    (And btw why the Hell didn’t Dogen already know who they were..? The temple Others seemed totally different from the regular Others – totally different intel apparently)

    And while we’re on it – what was the purpose of the Others..? I mean what did the “avarage Other” believe he or she was there for, what was their purpose..?

    I’m thinking about Cindy for example:
    the flight-attendant-Tailie-turned Other.
    Now, she was taken after 48 days, yes
    and a month later she and the kids were standing outside Jack’s bear-cage –
    replying – It’s no that simple – to Jack’s confusion.

    On day 86 she’s apperently committed enough to “the cause” that she feels it’s apropriate for young children(Zack and Emma) to witness a cold-blooded execution(John and his father, though he failed)

    Cold-blooded being exactly the purpose of it – to show that you’re willing to do whatever to protect the Island, even kill your own Father.
    That must have been the general idea among the Others, don’t you think..? Protect it from the Outsiders…….

    Protect the Island – are you bullshitting me – no one seems to be able to get there unless Jacob invites them – He brings people there all the time, always have and always would if he were still alive
    He even specifically wanted flawed people(Murderers, robbers, cheaters, drug-addicts and so on)so it’s not like he had “high standards” agreed..?

    So why the Hell were the Others under the impression that they were protecting the Island from “Outsiders” when in fact MOST people on it in fact is!

    No, in fact during the campfire-session Jacob Tells them, their mission is to protect the Light(Heart of the Island)
    from Nemesis and find a way to do what Jacob himself couldn’t – kill him…

    So, somewhere along the way Jacob changed his agenda from proving Nemesis wrong, that people can do good – to getting a Replacement for him who can kill his Brother…Letting “Others” in on that plan before the very last moment possible
    (literally – they were on the fricking clock/campfire dammit)
    might have been a good idea, don’t you think..? Instead – to me – it just seems a lot of people had to die along the way unnecessary..

    And I will to the day I die assert that there’s a hole in Nemesis’ Loophole,
    and that it’ll suck if we’re not revealed the truth about the cabin before(or rather during – ha!) the end(which doesn’t seem likely now that it’s burnt to the ground, but..)


  14. No, my opinion on the Jacob touching the Losties has nothing to do with them getting on the island ect… was to save them when they detonated the bomb….and bring them back to present time..thus “there coming” How did he know who to touch…simple he saw all them roaming the island in the past before he touched them…..he also made a candidate list out of this….Yes i know it’s backwards thinking, but if it happened it happened… Juliette was not touched nor did she survive….

  15. Chief, I think we might have to accept that Lost is not as thought out as one might have hoped. Now when they try to explain everything, I’m afraid we’ll have to live with that we’ll find a lot of contradictions and illogical behavior when we try to relate the given explanations with what we have been shown throughout the series.

  16. Jack is now “like” Jacob in that he has powers and an increased awareness goig into the last 150 minutes of story telling (minus commercial interruptions).

    Will he also be “like” Jacob in other ways as well. Will he touch people and give them awareness and immortality to prepare them for a confrontation with MIB?

    Will he have an awareness of the FSW in which he himself has a son? Will he opt to create that FSW world as an alternative to both Jacob and MIB?

  17. Claire’s PB – Good thinkin’, and yes, I’m a firm believer that Jacob touched every single person on that wall, and probably every single name in the lighthouse. He’s been hard at work for an extremely long time. Only he knows how long it’s been.

    I’d love it if the numbers came into play during this finale. I really hope the writers have come up with a genius way to explain what the numbers by their names meant. If there was a formula at work of some kind, it would be glorious to see.

    AES – …..That was a complicated line about the gun, but I think you’re agreeing that it’s messed up on Jacob’s part. If so, thanks 🙂

  18. Wehave2goback – I think Ben has a better handle on MIB than anyone else on the island right now. If anyone knows what MIB can do, it’s him….And yeah, I’m just griping about the graduation ceremony for Jack. It wasn’t that bad, I was just expecting a more interesting scene (personal preference like a spoiled brat).

    Bing – I don’t know. It sure seems like Jacob touching these people did more than just give a gay gesture. If handing him that pen actually had no significance, then I guess Jacob was extremely surprised when he found out the same kid he gave a pen to as a child ended up on the same 815 flight that everyone else he touched was on. What a coincidence. Sorry for being Mr cynical himself, I couldn’t resist.

  19. Jacobsdoublewide – Well, I’ve been wondering if there was a possibility of more than one smokie since “Across the Sea” aired. It was shot down by pretty much everyone though.

    lostfreak – Whoa! I’d be writing a solid theory on this if I were you. I hope you do. I’d like to see some elaboration! I know I’d read it at least.

    ilieabouttheshadowcauseimaliar – I know whatcha mean. I’ve come to accept the fact that I (and most of us) have gotten too tied up in the lore of it all, that we just aren’t going to be satisfied if we want it all explained. That’s why I stopped hoping for answers a while back and started hoping for a more entertaining plot. I still want it to make sense though.

  20. Andre7 – Yep, Jack can now find the light just as every other “protector” has been able to do. Notice how Mother was able to find it, but no one else could. Then Jacob could find it after he was “blessed” and became protector. Now Jack will run into without ever being able to see it before as well. I just wonder if the lighthouse worked that way as well somehow……irrelevant though.

    Anyway, Jack’s going to be the star come Sunday. He’ll have the abilities to do what Jacob has always had, but we’ll be witnessing them finally. I plan on getting a few chills since I’m a nerd like that.

  21. Chief, I also thought it was a bit weird that the others etc. screwed around with the Losties pretty much that you can ask why on earth would Jacob order that… But on the other hand; the fact that Jack left the island was the reason his attitude has changed and thus a major part in his ‘road to candidacy’…or whatever.

    I know it can sound a bit cheap passing everything off as ‘he/she needed this or that’, but it’s the best I can make of it..

  22. I think the FSW was intended to show what the candidates lives would be like if Jacob hadn’t touched them and they never went to the island. Here’s the thing though, Jacob doesn’t touch Jack until he’s an adult. He offers him an Apollo bar in the hospital after Jack loses his money and Jacob gets two bars. That’s the only time we see him touch Jack and it appears that this is close to the time Jack and his Father have their falling out leading Christian to go to Australia. But in the FSW Jack has a teenage son by that point in his life. So obviously Jacob’s touch wasn’t the difference in whatever decision Jack made that led him to have (or not have) a child. Is this an inconsistency or a clue?

  23. Jukin – Good job trying to work your own question out. This is one major reason why I haven’t really been digging the flash sideways. You list a prime example.

    If Jack is 35 when Jacob touches him. That means he’s 35 when his life starts going down Jacob’s path. If the FSW is life without Jacob WHICH IT APPEARS TO BE….I wonder why his FSW life was different at the age of 22 to where he had David.

    There’s more to it obviously. That would be a huge hole in the writing. I hope we can get a good answer on this FSW. An answer that makes us all want to watch this season all over again.

  24. i am scared that this is going to end really bad. something like the island gets destroyed evryone dies and in the flash sideways they all meet up at the concert and remember another life and sing some cheesy song together and that is how it ends. i just cant see them tying the two timelines together with out it ending as the flash sideways ends up being the reality

  25. LOL, a song would be terrible. It’s only gonna be a bad ending if you let it be. I know that sounds like I’m being some sort of know-it-all. But I’m taking the finale as in “It is what it is.”

    We’re all going to enjoy it because we all love this show, and we love how it’s made us think. Son of a bitch, I AM a know-it-all aren’t I? I’m very sorry.

  26. i know it is what i make of it. i am on the fence on wether i would like it or not. i guess i have been guilty the past week of not wanting it to end and instead of accepting it i am just getting mad at it. i dont know. and dont be sorry i enjoy the debates and arguments on this site

  27. The arguments are what I’ve looked forward to. I start em half the time cause that’s how problems get solved. 🙂

    I’m on the fence as well in a way, and I know there’s going to be things I wanted answered too. But ABC knows the fanbase, and how big it is. They know this is actually a HUGE deal in TV history. So I’m sure they spent the time and money on making sure that whatever happens, we’ll be entertained.

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