Namaste Discussion!
Another Great Episode. And it gives us lots too talk about!
What is the Fate of Sayid?
Where is Daniel?
How can Sun get back too the 70’s??
We learned that Amy’s Baby is Ethan.
an much more!
Comment with your theories/ and Questions.
I believe Daniel Became a Hostile, but Why?
That’s an interesting possibility about Faraday. What if he became Jacob? Where did he go – another mystery we have to wait for. Maybe it’s as simple as he took the sub back to the real world.
One more thing, why is it that those that go to the Island on the submarine have to be put to sleep? Why is it that the same thing happened to Juliet when Richard recruited her.
More filler, this episode should have been bursting with so much more… how could they give us this crap after a repeat, why?
Alot of great questions…i still beleive were not going to know anything untill the end of season 6
for a second there i thought radzinsky was going to be daniel….i guess not…looks like sayid is going to be a hostile for real….the war is coming!
i really enjoyed the new sawyer, taking his place in the history of the show. jack vs sawyer may represent some interesting scenarios.
the whole Christian – sun discussion and right before the whispers was interesting. What will Christian advice Sun to do in order to get to Jin.
The episode may be a filler, but it`s filling in the plot for season 5 in my opinion. Sayid a hostile… never!
master manipulator ben may have gotten to sayid….my question is how come sun is the only one of the 5 that didnt go to 1977?
So, anyone think Sayid will try to kill Ben?
Why did the buildings look so much different when Sun/Lapidus went to see Christian as opposed to when the Losties first arrived?
Why didn’t Sun flash like the other Losties?
willis, i don`t think sayid will try. the building is different because a lot of time has passed and it has been abandoned. my thoughts are that sun exists just like ben in dharma time, how i`m not sure.
username, I thought Christian told Sun that the Losties/Jin are “In ’77,” and told her it is a difficult task to join them? Ben is with Sun, so I think they are in the present or sometime roughly in that time frame.
Willis…I assume you mean why does it look different than in 2004 when the Losties first crashed on the island? I would wager it has to do with Keamy and crew roughing the place up!
username – it was explained to Juliet that they are put to sleep so that they do not experience any head injuries (from going on the incorrect Bering).
I found it crazy that Christian was just like, “Oh let’s see here… 1977. Yes, your husband is safe with your friends.” How does he know about time travel so much, how does he know where – sorry, WHEN – the others are, and WHO IS HE?!
Ok, interesting idea. Daniel is not a hostile, he’s at the Swan or The Orchid. The time travel data he brought with him to the Island is all over the blast door as written by him- and maybe later Razinski. OR, Maybe he takes on Razkinski’s name after the Purge or the incident? I’ll be back tomorrow with more…
it wasn’t really a filler! it saw sayid getting captured, jack and co. getting into dharma, the realisation that ben is there as a child and that sun didn’t flash.
how is that a filler?! they don’t do season 3 style fillers…like the dreadful ‘expose’…because they know where they’re going now.
Spot on Thomas, spot on.
Do they know where they are going? I think they are making this shit up as they go… And confusing the he’ll out of everyone
The Buildings Also looked different because they were bombed by the frietor ppl
Yeah, the buildings had been tore up by Keamy and his crew… they’ve also been neglected for three years!
This episode was not filler. Answers were given, questions were raised… I guess if you want to call this episode filler you’d have to call all of them filler episodes!
I kind of thought that Jack and Sawyer were going to get along better now, but I guess not. Something tells me that their relationship is going to cause problems.
I yelled at my television when Amy said her baby was Ethan… Ethan, as we’ve seen in 2004, doesn’t seem to be aging well. I also have doubts that he was a real, traditionally trained, doctor. So what does it mean that the baby is Ethan?
Well… Some people speculated that the birth of the child wasn’t supposed to happen because Sawyer and Juliet hadn’t been there originally to save Amy… That is debunked. Now we’ve seen the original 2004 and Ethan is there so either he would have survived without them or it was always them that saved him… I’m sticking with the latter.
Sayid got that look in his eye when he met young Ben… that “I’m going to kill this kid” look. I think he’s going to try to kill Ben but he won’t succeed. This makes it unlikely, in my opinion, that Sayid will become an Other.
It’s sad that Sun didn’t make it to 1977 to reunite with Jin but based on what Christian said (“You have a long journey ahead of you” or something like that…), she’ll eventually be able to get back. I’m digging her new ruthless nature… I was wondering why we saw Ben laid out like he’d been injured in the crash then we saw that he was fine…
Ummm, what else? Oh, so Sun and Frank didn’t take off right after the crash like they’d made it seem in 316… Which means there was some time between the crash and the time John Locke showed up… I wonder where he was in the mean time…
What happened to Daniel? Well, my first thought is that he became Jacob. I’m going to stick with Daniel is Jacob until I’m proven wrong. Maybe he went down to the exotic matter at the Orchid site and just hugged it until he dissolved into time or something… who knows. I doubt he’s become an Other. The other option I’m considering is that he’d gone crazy and was sent back to the real world on the sub. In that case who would know what time he’d end up? Maybe, just maybe, when we saw Daniel crying at the news of flight 815, it was future, post island, Daniel. Otherwise, what the heck did he need a caretaker for?
Yeah Jack and Sawyer will be rough for a while but I think eventually like the middle of season six or sooner they will end up on the same side. I’m hoping somehow there brothers. They sure fight like it.
It’s more than likely that Sayid will take a shot at Ben and I’ll leave it at that. Except to say little Ben is almost as awesome and creepy as Adult Ben.
Ethan is the Baby ok. Maybe I will care someday. My clone theory just missed.
Yeah I think Faraday got sent off Island.
Lastly I cant wait to find out about the Others or Hostiles or what ever they are. Christians Character is becoming a favorite of mind. And I think that theirs a little more to the Barracks than just being run down. There was more than a few pictures on that wall and I look forward to checking out the episode again today to see that room again creaky door and all. What’s this journey Sun and perhaps Lapidu gotta go on. Could they be going time traveling.
An interesting line Ben had and directed at Lapidus before he got Mike Tysoned by Sun. Well he said” A Captain never leaves his passengers behind” To me it sounded alot like something you’d say to the Captain of a certain ship. It seemed like Ben and Lapidus have a little more history than we know.
Lastly Llaona or whoever was Sayid’s guard she didn’t look to panicked when the plane was going down.
If Sayid tries, wouldn’t he not be able to kill Young Ben?
Also, I had a theory at first – which I thought was amazing – until Sun knocked Ben out with the paddle. I thought that Ben came along for the ride, and then he was on the boat shooting at Locke and Juliet and Sawyer episodes ago, and then Juliet shot back and hit Ben (ironic huh?) and that’s why Locke sees Ben injured. I don’t know though, it still seems fishy that Ben is on a line of beds with injured people for getting hit over the head with a paddle. Whenever Locke saw him could not have been too later in time, as Ben’s injury wasn’t too severe. That is of course assuming that Sun hitting Ben over the head was the reason that Ben was on the bed injured, which I still don’t think is the reason.
Next, can we assume that the “shaking of the trees” that Sun and Lapidus sees is the smoke monster? I was hoping for a sound… but nothing that I could hear. Of course there are other animals on the island that we know of, but still.
Was anyone else expecting the person to walk out of the house in the barracks to be Alpert, or was it just me? That whole scene – I must watch it again – seemed very… interesting, I must say again. Christian just looks at like a “Wall of Fame” and knows exactly where Jin and co. are! How?! Then when he says “a long journey ahead of her” does that mean a long time to get to Jin, or just the fact that they are “30” years away, so it’s technically long?
highbrow – I’d also like to know more about the timeline on the 316 camp, although since we see the actual crash it’s safe to say that Locke showed up later, and then he was obviously brought to Ben later on, as we see Ben on the plane immediately after the crash meaning he was okay right after the crash.
I think I’ll post a separate thread to draw out what I think to be the timeline.
As for Daniel, I think he’s either trying to get away from “Charlotte”, or he’s working DHARMA.
What I find interesting is that we see Radzinsky making a model of the Swan, meaning that it was not even starting to be built in 1977. So assuming he finishes the model in 1978, it would still take at least a few years (with 70’s 80’s technology) to build the station, especially since it is underground, so there must be digging first.
But this does not make sense to me as the Orientation film for the Swan was made in 1980, when it talked about the “incident”. So the incident is going to happen very soon in time, and we will probably see some losties working on the building of the Swan.
How priceless was it when Jack gets the janitorial job! It’s the exact reverse of his first time on the island, and he does not like it one bit.
But I thought it was a fantastic episode. More questions were answered than asked (although most answers were for recent questions). NOT filler in my opinion.
Willis, what I mean is that a younger version of Sun is on the Island during the 70
Yeah, it was hilarious that Jack became a workman “based on his aptitude test”… Ha ha! You could tell he wanted to shout something about being a spinal surgeon… Something interesting about that scene though is that Pierre Chang is sitting down to personally in-process a DHARMA Workman. What the hell?
And yeah, we meet Radzinski. We find out that he’s a little off.. kind of paranoid. He apparently designed the Swan Station and works at the Flame. How he ends up in the Swan later only time will tell. I have a feeling though that The Incident is directly related to the construction of the Swan… Maybe he screwed something up and Chang put him there as punishment… Who knows…
I had this feeling at the beginning of the episode that when they were writing it they were thinking “Ok, now have Frank point out the runway… Dabs will hate that!”…
The sub might come every two weeks to bring supplies and whatnot. Sawyer only said that they weren’t expecting new recruits for six more months. They seemed to have a pretty full crew on the island already… can’t just keep constantly bringing new people in!
lol highbrow regarding the run way, for the casual viewer, that’s the runway 🙂
Jack being a janitor will allow him access to a lot of places that a doctor may not have. I think this will be vital in the next few shows.
Interesting username about the janitor being good.
I don’t understand how Ben does not know about the Swan when it is still yet to be built. Unless before the construction he joins the Others.
Also Ethan as has been stated somehow becomes an Other, which is weird as his dad dies in the Purge. However, as has been theorized, Amy could be Amelia that we see before, so maybe Amy and Ethan join the Others. Why though…?
I definitely think that the incident had to do with the Swan construction as well, as the 1980 orientation film mentioned it, and because in 1977 it hadn’t even been started being built yet. So it could not have been in operation for too long.
I feel so bad for Sayid! At least he knows that Sawyer and Jin remember him, and that he is in good hands. I’m not sure if he’ll have a grudge against Young Ben, and if he does, could he even kill him? And if he could, could that be “our” Ben’s way of getting to the 70’s. Does baby Sun (it definitely seems that she is on the island as a baby) stop Sun from being in the 70’s? Also, Lapidus has been to the island before, or is his case different?
When did we get a clue that Sun was on the island as a baby?
The fact that she did not flash to the 70s, along with Ben who we KNOW was there. I think it is that simple.
I think there is more too it, though. I was never really a believer in it until this episode.
I think the island just has stuff for her to do… I also think that Ben was just not supposed to come back… the island might have just tolerated him being on the flight because it was getting the other people it wanted… stranding him in 2007 neutralizes him.
When my boyfriend and I watched this episode we both came off of it thinking it was filler, too, but then we discussed it for 3 hours. Some of my theories have been stated already, so sorry for repeating things. Here goes:
1) Jack being a workman means he will be directly involved with Roger, Ben’s Dad.
2) Sun didn’t flash because she’s on the Island in 1977- or at least is due to be born. Do we know that Dr. Chang’s baby is a boy, for certain? If so, it could be Miles. If not, it could be Sun.
3) The time frame of the construction of the Swan, the Incident, and the film regarding the new protocol are not adding up for me. We are in 1977. The Swan may or may not be partially built. I believe it is possible that part of the Swan already exists, but the geo-dome Razinski is designing may be part of the reason for the Incident, or built just after it. What doesn’t make sense is how the story arc is going to get us to the Incident and then to that film. If they need to follow this protocol, then why on earth would it take up to three years to get the film made? Conversely, how are they going to tell 3 years of story in 1.5 seasons?
4) We see evidence of Smoke Monster, then we see Christian. Hmmm.
5) Miles doesn’t seem to have much of a part to play anymore…
6) The amount of real time that has passed since we’ve seen the remaining 815ers,namely Rose and Bernard, is getting ridiculous. When the Island was flashing, we know for certain that they were flashing, and at least in part, right along with the Sawyer group. It’s been 3 years— did they get absorbed into the 1977 Others? Did they flash back to 2004 at the last flash? Why are we not seeing their fate? The longer it takes, the more I am convinced we will see them as corpses.
And what of the Others? My current theory is that they did NOT flash through time, and that Juliet flashes because she’s been marked- she’s no longer one of them.
This episode was kind of a let down for me. I’ll never say an episode of LOST was a waste, but it was a let down none the less.
I thought the Ethan thing was kind of lame, until, i’m assuiming, we find out about that he plays a major role that we haven’t seen yet. Not too mention the fact that we now know Ethan was supposed to be a 26-27 year old guy when we first met him. the guy looked 40. lame.
I strongly believe that Daniel has gone abit loopy, and that is what they mean when they said he’s not there anymore. And i think that ties in nicely to how we see him in the 2004 timeline with the caretaker.
The fact that Sun did not flash to the 70’s is driving me nuts! All the other people that flashed have sort of redeemed themselves over the past 3 or 4 years (time on the island, post crash, and after they left) except for sun. Maybe i’m forgetting something but she is still incredibly selfish and untrustworthy in my eyes. Maybe she wasn’t able to flash because she hasnt’ redeemed herself and shown to be a truely good person???
Why would the pictures of the DHARAMA ppl still hang on the wall? Wouldnt the other take them down?
Sun may have ‘betrayed’ the island to Widmore, in which case she has been put into a penalty box with Ben.
Well the Others kind of got wiped out by Keamy in 2004. Since then Christian is apparently chilling there with all the pictures.
Maybe Christian put them back up…
They docked at Palla Ferry and I’m not sure exactly how far that is from the barracks. It’s far enough I guess for them to use shuttle drivers from the ferry to the barracks… It could just be a building that the Others never used.
But maybe the building is like Jacobs cabin… Not surprising that we saw Christian in there then… plus has anyone seen the picture possibly Claire in the background behind Sun in that building? You can see it on Lostpedia on the theories page for this episode.
Sohrshah: How can Sun be Chang’s baby, her dad is Mr Paik.
If we are to assume that the little red haired girl in the previous episode IS charlotte, then could it be that somehow it’s Jin who teaches her Korean? just thought that would be quite cool 🙂
So if Locke is in the same time frame as Sun 2007 and Jack etc are in the 70’s, then there must be som kind of time travel to come. Maybe this is the incident that is going to happen. Either some go forward in time or some go back.
Daniel is building the Orchid station as seen in the first episode of this season where he bumps into Chang. What exactly he is doing down there remains to be seen.
Jin would have had to have taught her pretty recently for her to be so fluent so I think she’d remember him… It would be a cool connection though…
there are suppose to be high res pictures of whose behind Sun in the cabin. if it’s not a person on set, i’m going to say it’s definitely Charlotte. it can’t be anyone else at this point. take a watch of the scene again and notice the door opens, we see a little smoke (smokey:) then we see the image of the lady behind Sun when she looks at the photo. Charlotte I tell you! Charlotte. Please someone find the high res images.
The lady did seem to have orangy hair. About the Korean – I recently learned that it is X% easier for someone to catch onto and learn a language when they are in between 2-8 years old or something like that. So if Jin teaches it to her when Charlotte is very young, then 1) it would be easier and quicker for her to learn, and 2) she might not remember who taught her it as it was so long ago.
As seen in Namaste (I do not mean to be racist) there is Chang, and a few recruits who are of Oriental heritage, so I’m not sure if any of them are Korean, but it could be a way that Charlotte held onto the language as she had people to practice with.
okay what’s really bothering me now and this needs some big time input, when the plane was crashing and about to land on the runway, the other pilot says the mayday verbiage, and all of sudden you hear the numbers, 4, 8, 15, 16, etc. well, how can that be. didn’t Rousseau tape over them? either this is a different future or there is something amiss.
oops, my bad, the losties turn off the recording end of season 3.
Wait, it just hit me. Why were the numbers playing if the plane crashed in 2007? Had the flash not occurred yet?
Why is Ben seen in a previous episode with the “injured” on a bed. They obviously know he is not injured from the crash, did they just not get to that part yet? That bothers me the most.
The episode was phenominal. There was so much info given regarding the Losties, especially Sawyers role in the DI.
Highbrow, I feel your pain with Ethan, for soooooo many reasons. Honestly the age part doesnt bother me as much as the fact that I could give a s#@t less about him.
On Ethan, btw, this is something from back in season 4 that I dont think anyone but myself…saw or imagined. Watch the scene where Des is approaching Faraday at Oxford, in “The Constant”. It really, honestly, when I watched the episode the second time ( i have lost count now) dawned on me, that the man Faraday is speaking bluntly and angerly at..is possibly Ethan Rom. Watch the scene, tell me you thoughts. It is not the same actor I dont believe, but the similarities are amazing. And the fact that Dan just happens to be his professor…its kind of nuts, but a possibility.
AES, read my 316 timeline theory if you have not already. It shows (in my opinion) exactly what happened from the time 316 crashed to the time Lapidus and Sun arrive at the main island. So I touch largely on why we see an injured Ben at the Hydra. You said “they obviously know he isn’t injured from the crash.” Who is “They”?
Yeah, I think Sun and Frank carried Ben back to the 316ers camp. There he probably started crying and pointing at sun and screaming “she hit me! she hit me!” and Ilana kissed his forehead and told him that everything would be ok and put him to bed. She told Sun she was grounded but sun screamed “you’re not my real mom! You can’t tell me what to do!” and she stomped back to the boad with Frank following behind saying “where are you going? we’re gonna get in trouble!”… then they got on the boat and ran off to the main island…
Ethan… Ethan? Seriously? Man, I hate that! I’ll have to rewatch that episode. I wouldn’t be completely surprised…
As for the Koreans… I don’t think Chang is one of them. Of course it’s possible that someone taught her Korean at a young age but if she didn’t use it often she’d lose it. My daughter is half korean and she can’t speak more than five words of Korean except during the summer when she visits her mom and practices it… but she did initially pick it up quickly (because she learned it at a young age)… On the other hand, I learned it in my early/mid 20s and struggled greatly to pick it up but I retained a lot of it even though I don’t practice anymore.