so ive been watching season 1….
yep i started watching season 1 from the beginning, im up to episode 15 now. a couple of observations:
1. i am a hundred. thousand, million percent sure Locke was taken over as soon as they got to the island. maybe the first time he saw smokey, or maybe even earlier. I don’t think he is who he is now (mib), i think he was something else then, but not just a person, not just some dude that could suddenly walk. It seems to me that he’s trying to drive people back to being “good”, in a way doing what Jacob was set out to prove. He makes charlie quit durgs, he ties up boon in the jungle and makes him “quit” shannon, he helps michael and walt’s relationship get better. (im sure there are a lot more instances of this to come that i have forgotten from season 1 but this is how far ive gotten for now)
To me, it seems like if jacob and mib were watching these people after they crashed their conversation would go something like this:
MIB: see i told you all the people you bring here are all bad, they are drug addicts, they manipulate one another, they cant even get along with their kids.
Jacob: no dude, they’re not bad, they can be changed, they are all good inside. watch ill show you
*jacob sees locke and thinks “hummm i shall use you to prove mr. no name over here wrong, i will turn all these people good again”
remember locke saw “light” inside smokey.
so yeah, i dont know how right i am with this, but locke is def not human he is something else. specially go rematch the one where he takes boon into the jungle, i think it’s 12 or13, the way he is acting is like he knows something.
he also does this weird appearing thing, like no one hears him coming and there he is. he gives his compass to sayid and says i dont need this anymore, like he knows the island now. he also knows the answer to everything, anytime someone asks a question locke’s got the answer.
also boon is following him like a puppy, exactly how clair and sayid were following him in the beginning of this season. there is so much more about his behavior that watching those episodes now with what we know, you see him in a different light.
you know how we’ve been seeing a little bet of locke leaking out of mib, well what if what we thought was locke before, wasnt him at all, it was mib or someone else all along and so we’re nothing seeing parts of the old person in the new one. it’s been this same person all along
2. i think Vincent was also taken over as soon as they got to the island. first he wakes up jack to go help the peeps on the beach, then he disapears, then the first time kate, jack and charlie go into the jungle, Vincent is there sitting behind trees watching them. normal dogs wouldnt just be sitting there watching right?
there will be more to come as i watch more but so far these are the two things i have to say about season 1.
I just rewathed episodes 1-4 and I immediately thought the same exact thing about Vincent….that he was absolutely not acting like a dog! But rather like someone/something else was controlling him. I mean, what dof just takes off and then hangs out just watching people go about their business and hsows up randomly at odd times? I think we will find out that a few of our favorites were abolsutely not who we thought they were from the very start.
i think u are on to something in terms of locke. i mean didnt he in season one or two get shot and it basically deflected of him. i mean no one seen it deflect but shouldnt he have been dead? i might be wrong so dont bash me guys. lol in terms of the dog doing that that is perfectly normal. my dog does not let people get near him so if people are over he will just chill out and watch from a distance . if u are in my house chillin he will do the eventual drive by licking. till he gets to know u then he is your pal.
Funny, Obsessed, I’ve also been watching LOST from the first season and taking notes of weird things that are obvious now with hindsight.
In terms of Locke, I commented a while back that I thought Locke was “inhabited” by someone/something from the very moment he crashes in the island. In fact, I think Locke DIED in the crash and that Smokey took over it. I know we’ve only been shown that he “replicates” dead people – but if he can do that, what’s to say he can’t “possess” them?
Anyway, here’s my list of “Weird Locke Moments” in Season 1, with the episode number before them:
2: With Walt, talks about Backgammon, then tells him: “do you wanna know a secret?”
3: At the end of episode, happy song dies and turns into freaky scary noise as Locke goes into the shot.
4: Smoke monster comes to him and does nothing to him; later, Christian appears, Jack follows and finds Locke instead.
5: “I know where to look” (for water).
6: (Talking about Charlie’s guitar) “You’ll see it again”; later, he finds Charlie’s guitar just after speaking about it.
10: In Claire’s dream about Aaron, Locke appears and tells her “he was your responsibility but you gave him away Claire, everyone pays the price now”, and his eyes are one black one white!
11: He predicts rainfall with Boone “it’s gonna start raining in one minute”!!!
17: He knows that Walt burned the raft, but how?
19: A piece of shrapnel lodges in his leg, but he doesn’t feel a thing (no feeling in his legs/feet).
22: He touches Walt and Walt srhugs him off and says “don’t open it” (in reference to the hatch).
I’m halfway through Season 2 now, and I have to admit I don’t see these weird Locke moments anymore…… so I’m a bit confused now…………..
Oh, forgot to mention this. I’ve also been on the lookout for “Weird Christian Moments”, and one particularly came out in Season 1:
11: Jack won’t sign the fake declaration after Christian operated under the influece, but when Christian touches his shoulder, he signs it; later, when the husband of dead patient is threatening to sue, again Cristian touches his shoulder and he breaks down in tears.
…hmmmm seems like his touch does something?
I think too, that something happened to locke after meeting smokie, ep 2 i think.
remember when rouseau came to the island,
smokie took all her friends on his side, and they had an understanding of what it was. just as locke had an understanding of various things on the island.
i believe that he was selected to be, the so much unticipated loophole.
Locke theory has been mentioned before on numerous occasions and I’m one of the few that believe in it, so good job on spotting the characteristics of him in Season One.
As far as Vincent is concerned, the Producers have pretty much admitted to the fact that Vincent was being manipulated by someone/something. If you watch the Lost Webisodes on YouTube it’ll show you Christian telling Vincent he has work to do by waking up Jack and helping him save the survivors of the car crash. Check them out if you haven’t seen them already.
Fresnele:
I agree with you, Locke does seem a little more ordinary in Season 2 but I think this might have something to do with the Hatch being a variable in the whole loophole scenario. For example, he bangs on the hatch just after Boon dies screaming ‘This isn’t the way it was supposed to happen’ or words to that effect. My own theory on it was that after years of time loop, if you believe in the whole process being repeated time and time again, Locke (or whatever it was controlling him) finally discovered the hatch as he was supposed too but because Desmond was a variable (being immune to the electromagnetic and being able to cros through universes/times etc) meant that he didn’t know what to expect. In a simplified term, whenever Locke goes into the hatch it’s always different so he has to be prepared for anything.
Nice theory, lovely thoughts. Sorry for rambling, it’s 3.15 a.m and i’m desperate for the next episode tonight!
I think the whole Backgammon game thing is very interesting considering the last episode that was on this week, an I did find it odd as well how Locke knew to put that paste on Boone’s wound to make him trip out a hallucinate BUT,
John has to be John because Smokey & John are seen in the same shot & we havent seen that with Flocke & Smokey (When smokey kills those men in the statue after being shot)
An I know you probably want to be right but it wouldnt make sense since they showed us Locke’s real body in the box Llana had, If MIB/Smokey was walking in John’s skin then i’d be all for it but there are 2 bodies involved & if John died immediately then his body would be there still & Fake Locke would come out of the jungle with the same exact clothes & make the switch somehow but then whos body is in the box then?
Correct me if Im wrong bout are the playing pieces in backgammon black and white? Similar to what MIB and Jacob playing
booga and ar -you just have to watch that one scene where kate jack and charlie go into the jungle for the first time. you see vincent from behind the bushes watching them, just the once scene alone convinced me that he wasnt just a dog, it’s in the first or second episode just go watch it and you’ll see what im talking about.
fresnele – we are EXACTLY on the same page! if i had to make a list every single locke moment that stood out to me it would look exactly like the list in your comment, one by one! and i also agree that his “in-tune-ness” with the island goes away later on in the show. not sure if this is just something that took a back seat unintentionally as other things became more important in the writing or if it was on purpose.
Theresa-have you not seen the jacob/mib episode yet? or do you get to watch the next one ahead of us? cuz if so i am SO jealous!
Bing – i actually dont think he’s smoky, i think he’s something else. he acts completely differently in season one from how he is acting in season six, however in both he is acting possessed by something. not sure what, but i think it’s just some source of the island, dont know what exactly i just know he’s not a regular human.
pete- the game they’re playing is some ancient egiptian game, the name starts with an S (someone mentioned it on here earlier what it was) it’s basically played the same way as backgammon, two sides, one black one white, the objective is to get rid of the other person’s pieces.
oh another thing that i didnt mention but fresnele kinda touched upon: when locke says “wanna know a secret” to walt, we are never told what the secret was. we all just assume that it’s that he couldnt walk before but what if the secret is something else, something more. what if the secret is he knows something about the island
I think Locke is acting very much like a “candidate” in the first season. And one who wants desperately to fulfill that role. He’s like Jacob and MIB (before he becomes the smoke) and Widmore. He’s fully in tune with the island because he’s special. Unfortunately that is what passes for explanation on this show and that’s all we are like to receive about his knowledge of the island.
The island was everything he ever wanted and probably more. It’s pretty obvious he was meant to go to the island. He had a lot of knowledge and desire for going out in the bush and then he goes to this island and has his paralysis fixed. So he’s like holy jumpin this place is heaven. And all of a sudden he’s getting all these instincts and just knows what to do because the island seems to speak to him the way it has spoken to other special people.
I don’t think he was possessed or controlled so much as he was merely allowed to fulfill his destiny, which for better or worse was to serve the island. Obviously that ended very poorly for him but he did accomplish a lot and we do see him as the sort of Messiah for Jack.
In terms of some of John’s creepy moments especially that one at the end of episode 3. I think you can chalk that up to a couple of things. For one, Locke is just a creepy dude and for how happy he was on the island he was still a rather tormented and miserable dude so naturally you could expect to see him a looking a little weird from time to time. The other thing I really think of is that if you have faith in the writers, as I do, then you’ll believe that they’ve had things planned for Locke from the start. That means that all the run ins with the Smoke Monster and some of the creepy moments are all there to setup the future and foreshadow what is to become of Locke.
Great theory and great discussion. It’s always great to go back and reflect on past episodes. I know that whether the ending is good or bad, I will always love the first season of Lost and revisiting it will always be a treat. I’ll bet that even after the series is done we’ll be able to go back and watch old episodes and come up with new theories about certain things. Just seems like some of this stuff is always going to remain a mystery to maintain the essence of Lost forever.
ObsessedWLost and Pete – the game they are playing is Senet, a game so old that no-one is sure of the exact rules
ObsessedWLost:
It’s unfortunately the first chance to watch ‘Acriss the Sea’. We’re about a week behind you yanks! Damn blasted!
That’s what I’ve been saying!
Locke has been ‘Smokey’ since the episode he threw the knife at the seat next to Saywer’s head. That’s the episod IMO he was taken over. I don’t believe it was when they crashed but that’s my opinion.
Personally I don’t think Locke was taken anytime before his body was brought back to the island. But then we could be watching the end of Lost since the very first episode.
But at least according to what we know so far Smokey — since the smoke might not be entirely MIB after all — can only take a body that died off the island (ie.: Christian Sheppard, John Locke).
So for me “MIB” was kept in it’s ethereal form until the dead body of a candidate that died off the island was brought back to the island.
Anyways… in two weeks we should know a few more things 🙂
not that i’m disagreeing or anything but just a question. We now know that the Smoke Monster can take the forms of people or be the Smoke Monster – how was Locke being pulled along by Smokey in the Dark Territory if they are one and the same?
When the dynamite was dropped down the hole, John stayed but Smokey buggered off?
Actually, tbh, i really dont think that John was MIB right from the off. John was just John
Just a couple of thoughts on this…
I know the theory that Locke was Smokey from the beginning has some holes (but hey, I am yet to find a bullet-proof theory anywhere about LOST, hehe)…. but to come back to a couple of points raised here:
locked:
“…according to what we know so far Smokey … can only take a body that died off the island (ie.: Christian Sheppard, John Locke).”
Well, he’s also taken the form of:
– Brother (died on the island)
– Alex Rousseau (died on the island)
– Yemi (he may have died in the Beechcraft due to gunfire injuries before getting to the island, or after crashing)
So I think it would be more precise to say he can take the form of ANY dead people it’s become in contact with (before or after their death, directly or indirectly – i.e. through contact with someone they knew, like is the case of Isabella).
I_Am_Jacob:
“…how was Locke being pulled along by Smokey in the Dark Territory if they are one and the same?”
Well, from what I’ve seen here and in other sites (e.g. Lostpedia), it looks like it’s a pretty established fact that Smokey took the form of Isabella appearing to Richard in the brig of The Black Rock. This scene also showed how Smokey-like noises coming from the deck lured Isabella up and she was “taken” by the Smokey…
So, if we can accept that story, then surely we can accept Smokey dragging Locke into the whole, both being one and the same entity?
… Perhaps I’m playing Devil’s advocate a bit here, because the act of writing some of this stuff makes me think it doesn’t make sense…. BUT…. I guess that’s the beauty of a theories site….
PLUS – there is definitely something up with Locke in Season 1. Not sure what it is, or if the writers are playing with us with the themes and the music and the coincidences to prepare us for when Smokey actually takes over Locke – but Locke is not just Locke in Season 1. He’s Super-Locke, at least!
😛
After watching ‘Across the Sea’ I’m unfortunately going to have to disagree with this theory. There is some evidence to strengthen what you’re saying and I do believe it’s a sound theory but my own interpretation now that new elements have unfolded are that Smokey is Smokey and John is John. Smokey is the light in my opinion but has simply been tainted by humanity. Mixed with Jacobs passion to leave the Island it takes on the form of Smokey and makes it his prime objective to escape. I don’t know about anyone else, but I saw alot of MIB (before death) in Locke. The ability to specifically know when it was going to rain for example was something he just knew. Just how Jacob’s brother knew that by putting the donkey wheel into the light would allow him to manipulate it into letting him go home.
Sorry for the ramble, I just wanted to put my views across.
I disagree, I think we see a lot of Jacob in Locke (not wanting to leave the Island) and a lot of MIB in Jack (wanting to leave). But then we see the reversal, Locke being used by Smokie and Jack becoming more like Jacob because of Locke’s sacrifice.
You guys, i dont think you got my point in my theory, i dont think locke was taken over by MIB in the beginning, i think if anything he was taken over by something else. To me in season 1 Locke is trying to prove that people, no matter what their “bad” deeds are, are ultimately good inside. Like saving charlie from his drug addiction and turning him into a good caring person, like helping michael get along with his son. If anything like JacobDoubleWide said i think that locke is more like Jacob in season one not MIB. if he was taken over by MIB in season 1 he would wanna prove that people were selfish and corrupt, he wouldnt help them get over their faults.
I dont think Locke is smokey in season 1, im not even sure if i believe mib is entirely smokey after watching across the sea, but i do believe that locke has some sort of islandy influence over him. perhaps he landed right on top of the yellow light as the plain crashed and got some powers, fuck if i know!, but he is for sure not the same dude that sat in a cubicle and a box company.