What Is ‘the incident’?
I’ve posted recently about the opposing views in christianity of Calvanism (fate – no choice) and Arminianism (free will), and that in my view, life is a blend. We start at A and end up in B but the journey there is our choice.
It’s been said quite a lot that our Losties were always ‘meant’ to be in 1977. Just to play devils advocate, I propose that our Losties weren’t. But they are this time. What I mean is, regardless of whether the nuke goes off, there is an incident. That is, the Dharma have drilled into the pocket and caused chaos anyway. Imagine for a minute that our Losties weren’t there (say in a ‘previous game’). They drill too far and things go pete tong. Dharma implement the Swan Station to control the unhinged electromagnetism, maybe evacuate leaving Radsinski to push the button or whatever, to be replaced eventually by the guy who Desmond kills. Didn’t he or desmond ask for Radsinski – “are you him?”
That in itself is ‘the incident’. Or ‘an incident’.
But the nuke being detonated is also ‘the incident’. Or ‘an incident’. But it’s different in this game.
There needs to be an incident, so is Jacob bending the rules here and there? Tweaking things.
Similarly (as a side thought, prob more holes in this idea), could Desmond’s flashes of Charlie dying, be visions of previous games, but seen as future flashes from his POV? Charlie needs to die. But how is questionable. And maybe variable. Is the incident a miniature A to B journey? Charlie another one?
Please pick as may holes as you can with this thinking, as I value input from all angles as it can produce healthy debate. Hopefully 😀
i like the last point its very interesting. however, if i was going to say anything about that, i would say because Des could foresee Charlies death he was able to prevent it 4 times until it was necessary to die, so within preventing it, ‘the game’ had changed slightly (the outcome was different than before) in Jacobs favour.. Making your earlier point of Jacob tweaking things more valid.
And i think the game is changed because as stated in the show, the rules dont apply to Desmond
Okay several have said ‘I”m tired of hearing about an alternate time line’. And I get it. I’m tired of hearing about Lost as a game. And certainly a previous game. People have manipulated their surroundings because they had knowledge of future events. Jacob and MIB have probably both done this because they want different outcomes. But I wouldn ‘t call it a game. Maybe a war. They are not God and Satan.
we call it a game because they are each trying to beat the other and one wants a different outcome than before. We’re not actually saying it is a game its just the quickest way of explaining (in our opinion) whats going on.
perhaps des saw charlies future because he was supposed to save him 4 times. maybe thats how it always happened and was supposed to happen. he went back in time so he could learn from eloise that he can try to change the future, but it will end up happening anyways (which is why he gives up and tells charlie that he can’t keep saving him).
I think the word game implies that the pieces are mindless and are just being moved by someone else and I don’t think that fits Lost. People/ the pieces are manipulating and working each other. Just semantics 🙂
Yea the word game does have that connotation and prob not the best word to use, despite some of the hints. I think its a blend of being in a situation with certain circumstances, you make certain decisions. But if the circumstances are altered slightly then your decisions (or capabilities – i.e. Jack needing Sayid) are affected. In no way do I consider the characters mindless. More influenced by surroundings and conditions.
BanLinus.
Just to clarify, I haven’t ever considered Jacob and MIB as God and Satan, I was using the christian philosophy to help explain my point about fate vs choice, which, amongst other things, I think Lost is examining. I think like any good story, Lost draws inspiration from many sources, yet never adheres truly to just one. Cos thats lazy as far as writing goes.
And I like your thoughts about the alt timelines explaining the whispers 😀
yeah i didnt mean to imply they are mindless because i do think everyone has a choice i just think they are sometimes subtly manipulated into the prefered outcome. i think thats what i think.. i dont know anymore, my brain’s fried!