My Theory of Alternate Timelines and the Problem of Blissful Ignorance
Thanks to AES for making me think on this topic. I’m beginning to feel the vigor returning to my Lost theorizing muscles after a long absence… Enjoy!
Timelines. Hmm… I haven’t been able to wrap my head around them, even though I’ve tried. I just haven’t been able to see how they would fit with the story we’ve seen so far without destroying everything we’ve learned about the Losties and the island what whatnot. The producers promised that the stakes are real for the Losties which rules out timelines and paradox, right? Maybe not. This is the only way I can see it working out.
Let’s say we know for sure what we’re going to see in the beginning of season six. We see the Losties back at the airport in LA in 2004, just after flight 815 from Sydney has safely landed. There’s one thing we know for sure isn’t going to happen and that’s that the Losties aren’t going to simply pick up their lives and live in blissful ignorance of all of the events we’ve witnessed over the past five years. Why do we know that? Because we know (or at least hope) that season six will be longer than one episode! There must be some drama! Something must happen to upset their lives and keep the show going so our questions can be answered.
Well, the theories floating around these days are that when the bomb went off at the end of season five one of two things happened: Either a new timeline was created in which the Losties never crashed on the island or the Losties were transported somehow to an existing timeline where they never crashed on the island. I have problems with both of these. I’ll explain.
Say they ended up in a new timeline. How does that even work? The bomb goes off in 1977 so why don’t they end up in 1977? Wouldn’t their new timeline start there? If it did would they have memories of the island? Would those who were alive in 1977 suddenly know about this magical island? Would those born after spend their first days in the maternity ward worried about the smoke monster? I think this knowledge would cause quite a bit of trouble for them (and their mental state) as they try to lead normal lives. The only one who could fit this theory would be Libby. Remember, she’s normal, well adjusted, smart then all of a sudden she’s in the loony bin? Then she’s giving her boat to a complete stranger for no good reason that we can tell? Maybe things happened differently for her than for the other Losties… maybe things happened opposite for the Tailies… hmmm. I haven’t explained my theory yet so I guess you don’t have a clue what the opposite would be. I digress. I think the memory thing is enough to make this theory unlikely.
What if they entered an existing timeline? Wouldn’t there already be Losties there? Would they merge with them or would there be two Jacks? Could the world really stand two Hugos? Two Kates could be very interesting. Still, I don’t see it working. It seems like an end to the story before the final season even plays out. This theory has memory problems as well… I don’t think it’s likely.
Here’s my theory. What if… stay with me here… what if the Losties ARE following two timelines? How could that be without totally making a waste of everything we’ve seen so far? What if the time we see at the beginning of season six (assuming it actually starts the way people think it will) is the ORIGINAL TIMELINE and what we’re about to see is the event that sends our favorite castaways into the timeline we’ve been following since season one? That way there would be two timelines (or more, but only two which are important) and everything that’s happened over the past five years would be important.
I still don’t know if alternate timelines is the way the show is going to go but here’s an idea in case it does… This may have been proposed already, I don’ t know… if it has been then I haven’t seen it. I’ve been out of the loop in my own alternate timeline of blissful ignorance (of Lost) for a few months now.
Highbrow, your theory makes a lot of sense! I think that from the story-telling perspective, and the definition of writing alternative time-lines, this could fit in quite nicely. you may recall that I wrote a theory on this subject from a ‘writing’ perspective.
I’m not at all certain myself how Season 6 will play out, but this is one ‘alternative’ (pun intended) that might satisfy viewers.
I feel that we have all learned from the discussions and speculations that have taken place here on the site over the past couple of months.
Yours, is another worthy consideration for us to pursue.
Nice work!
your theory is certainly some new blood in this old war of WHH and ALT, id be happier if this is true rather than anything else about alternate timelines, but i still think 1 timeline is more likely, until ive seen the first episode and seen a new timeline, ill stick with 1, but well done on your new idea.
I couldn’t agree more….with most of this. You put into words exactly how I’ve felt about this since the Season 5 finale.
It makes no sense to me that the losties would just all the sudden be landing safely in LA after the hatch is destroyed. How would one decide that the new timeline for ALL the losties would start precisely at that moment, 27 years after the explosion? Well said Highbrow.
I’m having a tough time with your theory though. It’s a cool premise, but isn’t it just another loop when it’s all said and done? If at the end of the show, the losties are just trying to prevent another timeline from happening, which actually DID happen……..see? I’m lost again. This is bull. I’m about done talking about time alltogether.
Anyway, nice theory man.
Well, our involvement as observers of the original timeline would begin and end pretty early on in the next season. Maybe there are two corresponding events, one in the past like 1977 and one in the future, say 2004 that act as the beginning and end of an overlap between the two timelines. I guess together they could the the incident… or maybe it’s another incident… maybe the one happens in 2012 and it was the Mayans fault… basically though, I’m not implying that there is a loop. There is no travel back to the original timeline. The original timeline really has zero significance. If we see it it may be only to answer some questions for us.
How could there be two timelines?
Wouldnt something have to have been changed in the past to create this?
And kudos on the theory…not the first time Ive played the role of muse here, lol…maybe the first time with you lol…
I wanted your opinion because I value the thoughts…just so you know…Im going to “steal/borrow” (depending on if I have your permission;)the Libby thought off of you….I didnt give her a second thought, and its really a piece I have been needing…so great job on that…
Not being a dick, I think I can tell you this and you will get it, but just in case…
You kind of lost me at, “Here’s my theory. What if…” …
Are you saying that the will be “sent” consciencely to the island, and have been jumping back and forth the whole time?
The reason I ask is I presented this here before and I recall you being against the idea.
My thought was that all the flashbacks we have seen were from the future, due to a loop or change, and they were all “flashing” foreward the same as Desmond did…
Oh…if you didnt disagree, my apologies…cant blame me for assuming you disagree with me on something, lol..
I’ve been a defender of the two timelines theory since a long time and what you describe here is exactly what I think the alternate timeline theory is about, so I don’t see why people find new blood in this. Anyways, this theory is exactly what I’ve been meaning for months when talking about alternate timelines.
To those who ask how it is possible that they travel randomly 27 years later, I’d say well then how is it possible that Desmond traveled randomly 8 years in the past ?
And anyways when I think of the timeline theory I don’t necessarily think that their consciousness have to travel back to somewhere. The Jack, Juliet and Kate we know might very well be dead, and we might catch up to their 2004 consciousness or whatever other year when we fall back in the 2nd timeline.
We have seen three more years into the future, til ’07. So what happens to that? It just gets erased?
We haven’t seen you on here in a while Highbrow, so you probably haven ‘t followed some of the debate regarding alternate time lines.
The two scenarios you describe as being alts are both ridiculous.
Here is the actual scenario.
The bomb goes off in 1977 which creates the second time line. The first time line is the original time line. BOTH TIME LINES FOREVER EXIST and therefore the events of each are just as important in Lost lore. The creation of the second time line does not negate the original time line.
In the second time line, Oceanic 815 never crashes and the events will be different.
What you theorize sounds more like a time loop. Which if a loop were the thing, then I’d agree that what we saw for 5 seasons should be the final iteration of the loop.
The memory thing will be answered. Either our characters will or won’t remember things from the other time line. If they do, then the writers will invent some way to make that plausible.
By the 6th or 7th episode, it will be as if our characters are the same ones we left off with at the the end of season 5.
The 1977 losties die in the blast.
Chiefof16, the alt time line wouldn’t start in 2004. That would be stupid. However, THE SHOW might start season six in 2004.
Roland, nothing gets erased. Their are TWO time lines. One is the Oceanic 6 stuff. The other time line, Oceanic 815 doesn’t crash.
Again, some of you don’t seem to be grasping this concept.
The second time line DOES NOT DELETE the first time line. Both exist and are very important. Everything we saw for 5 seasons is important and does not just cease to exist.
Headache
What would be so bad about having two Hugos’?!?!
Totally agree with BanLinus. People misinterpret alt timelines so much, we absolutely need to get to february 2 as fast as possible.
there is no new timeline. there is only one timeline. there will not be a split and the losties didn’t die. you can not just create a new time line, it doesn’t work like that. now i know jacob is an advocate for free will and everything but in this case it just doesn’t matter. for example, when farraday has made his amazing revelation about how we are in control of our own destiny, he in turn immediately sealed his. he walked right into the others camp and was shot. he was shot because it already happened. so if the hydrogen bomb does go off and the losties do die. there will not be a split timeline, the timeline they are in has already been written.
Highbrow! It’s good to hear from you again. I’m going to pose the same question that I posed toAES in his recent post, do you consider alt timelines & alt universes to be the same phenomena?
Also, when you get a chance, check out my ‘Alpert’s Suicide’ post and let me know what you think.
Banlinus please don’t answer fo highbrow! I was asking his thoughts on it not yours.
ohhh snap! things are getting frisky up in here. and the only problem with two hugos would be a simple physics problem. one of mass.
Wow, I’ve been reading the comments here on my Blackberry but I haven’t been able to log in to comment myself (stupid sysadmin policies!)… Here we go…
AES, I have a picture in my head of what I’m thinking… it’s not really a loop and only sort of like having two timelines… I’m thinking an event in one time caused an event in the past and it kind of made a new timeline that had a beginning at the earlier event while the original timeline had an end at the later event… I need a diagram I guess… The people don’t really travel back and forth though, so it’s not a loop and it’s not really infinite timelines or anything like that…
I can’t stress enough how strongly I’m against a time loop.
Forget about the years that I posted in the theory. Think only of an event at one time causing an event in the past. I don’t know when they would have happened…
About two timelines… if we start following another timeline where 815 does not crash then all of the characters will have to proceed knowing nothing and acting as if none of the events of seasons one, two, three, four and five ever happened because from their point of view, they didn’t. If the timeline where 815 does not crash is the original and the crash timeline was created by some other even in the future then that problem is solved.
There are two problems with two Hugos. Yes, mass is one… the other is the walking calamity that guy seems to be…
Oh, and just to specify… the part of my theory that I intended to be something new, the “new blood” is the idea that the Losties crashed on the island and that something will change that will prevent the crash of 815, essentially creating a new timeline (or just erasing the things that happened in the first five seasons… it would be the same thing!)… I’m saying that things happened in the opposite order. The plane took off from Australia and landed safely in LA… then some event took place that caused a break in time and that even corresponds with some event that happened in the past… think of two spaghetti noodles sitting next to each other but not lined up. There is some overlap between the points where one begins and the other ends. The overlapping time is the time between the two events. But the important thing is that the original timeline is not where the plane crashed. The original is where the plane landed safely.
I think season six is going to start out by showing us the original timeline from the point where 815 lands in LA and up to the point where the second event takes place.
Very good explanation…and I FULLY get what you are saying…” (or just erasing the things that happened in the first five seasons… it would be the same thing!)… “…I cant believe nobody else really said that…I am hoping to cover some of these problems you raise in my next theory…which will more or less consist of my view of Lost…which oddly enough, is somewhat similar to the “diagram” in your head…could be wrong…well see..
I really like this theory though, and I think that there is a way to have change without erasing everything we have seen…its just different…
I also think that there is a loop in time. I word it different on purpose because I know you hate it, lol…and think it is not the conventional loop (which I have been told several times in my theories and do not deny) we all imagine it to be…
I really dont think we are too off base in our thinking of this, but I am going to add some craziness (as usual) to my idea…naybe because I believe it, maybe because I want to stir the pot…not sur yet.
The last line…that is in my opinion 100% correct, minus the word “original”…
Again, nicely done…
Oh…I meant the last line of your most recent comment before this post…
I think I’m still just amazed that this post has Highbrow, Dabs and AES all pretty much in agreement. That in itself is about the strangest way to get back into things around here, so I am assuming that it will only last about another week… 🙂
I have nothing else to contribute as I don’t really feel like catching up on 9 months worth of theories. This definitely starts things off nicely though.
Hi Kim, long time no see…
Not another week…maybe a few days…
Who knows…maybe there is change and no loop, maybe there is loop but no change…maybe there is alt timelines, maybe not…
Peoples views will change as the show progresses, and Im pretty sure…not positive, that they will find a way to make most people happy with the outcome.
As much as I preach about the previously mentioned “maybes”, Ill be pretty satisfied it they simply keep me entertained…
The agreements will last exactly one more week when we get another episode with more information that will basically tell us that we’re all wrong.
He did disagree with me though… on the word “original”… and that kind of throws all of the agreement out the window really because that’s the part of my theory here that’s different from the others.
lol… you are on point for being gone so long…
Ok…its probably the CLOSEST we have come to agreeing on something major…
I think we agreed on something major before but it turned out we were wrong. I feel better about this theory though.
Okay, so I’m trying to turn my Lost brain on and I’ve read a few things, and I have one immediately nagging question with this alternate timeline thing. I haven’t seen it addressed fully, so maybe you guys can make something of it. (And if it was already discussed, send me there.)
How does dead Locke/fake Locke fit into this event/timeline that you are referencing in the theory? I have other questions and thoughts, but somehow there is something there with the idea that these “two versions” of Locke somewhat represent the possibility of two versions of a timeline.
Go ahead, send me back to summer school. Just be nice about it.
And just to be clear – I did as much reading as I could handle (multiple times) on AES’ Alternate Timeline 101 discussion and a few other more recent posts, but I didn’t see mention of Locke’s situation in the mix there. If it is simply because it is much easier to classify two bunnies as simply two bunnies than it is dead Locke/fake Locke, I get that. But that’s also why I’m asking.
I’m not really sure if the Locke/Focke situation is related to alternate timelines. Sure, there’s a Locke in both but in one he’s dead and his form as been assumed by a guy who’s most defining feature is that he wears a black t-shirt. Maybe the significance is that Locke would probably be (if not for Jacob) dead in both timelines.
Maybe think about my question from a different way then, if it’s just that simple. It doesn’t seem that simple, especially if we have the option of another timeline.
I know there is a lot of nebulous stuff that comes up because we don’t have enough info on the situation and timeline for Jacob and Nemesis. But we do know that somehow Locke and his death played a crucial role – his death as a certain event – that created a loophole for Jacob and Nemesis to get at each other. (Something that seems important to the whole plot at this point…)
So I just wanted to somehow apply your line of thinking that at the beginning of Season 6 we will have Locke back in a wheelchair, in LAX, and something that then creates the timeline that Locke is on the island as we have seen from Season 1-5 right up until he’s again off island in 2008 dead.
I have more thoughts on why I’m thinking of this but I have to drink coffee and do a little other work first.
Kim, I don’t want to call your dedication into question here but come on… a little work? Before Lost? WE ONLY HAVE SIX DAYS!
I wish I could post an image. Here’s what I’m saying… Yes, in the beginning of season six there will be Locke in a wheelchair at LAX. All of the Losties will be there; even the ones we’ve seen die on the island.
Sometime after that there will be an event… something big. This represents the end of dual timelines (see that? I renamed it… I think “dual timelines” better describes my thoughts on the subject). At some point in the past, maybe in the ’70s, maybe earlier, there was an event that caused the beginning of dual timelines. At this point each timeline was identical but each is independent and any sequence of events is possible in each. They become more and more different each time.
In the original the plane doesn’t crash. This is what we’re going to see at the beginning of season six (I think). The crash and everything we’ve seen to this point (with the possible exception of flashbacks) has taken place in the new timeline. We’re going to think that Jacks plan has worked and he changed history by detonating the bomb but that isn’t going to be the case.
So yeah, they’ll land in 2004 and when John flashes off the island there will be two of them… it could get weird but maybe the younger John (the one that never walked on the island) will kill himself. Dying should be something we’re used to seeing John do so nobody should be surprised.
Well, okay. So this is the problem with working and trying to think Lost again. (Except for the fact that at work I played that great little “Answers!” video for all the Lost fans in my morning meeting.)
Anyway. I like the idea of another timeline. Call it alternate or dual or whatever. I like it because it feels like it has been foreshadowed and existed at various points, as AES described the “how” with the bunnies scenario. I think somehow it can relate to how the loophole was created and played out between Jacob and Nemesis, and why there could be such catastrophic events if there is not something (and some people) that can ultimately bring things back into alignment.
Yeah, I don’t think the dual timelines is much of a stretch… I like it because it fits what we’ve seen, doesn’t require change (in the past), explains things and doesn’t allow a loop. It’s kind of the happy medium between one singular timeline and infinite timelines.
To me it seems reasonable to say that there are many time lines. Each time someone time travels to the past, history is affected. We saw it several times in season 5.
And if there is such a thing as course correction seems to be a very weak force. For example, course correction did not prevent the interactions between Richard and Locke in any was.
I’ve proposed before that the alternate time line that everyone is talking about was in fact created when Jack et al flashed back to 1977 during the Ajira landing rather than during the Incident.
But I guess we’ll know soon in a week or so. 🙂
Sorry for crappy spelling.