316 – A follow-up discussion
(Preface: I wrote this early Thursday without having spent a lot of time reading any ‘new’ posts. I wish I could link to all the great theories/ideas referenced here that have been talked about prior to this episode airing, but I don’t have the time. Feel free to mention them in the comments! I know we are seeing a lot of duplicate/similar thoughts/theories these days, so this is just my way of sharing a few thoughts and hopefully sparking some insights from some of you great theorizers, researchers…hint hint.)
I didn’t want to write a re-cap, just mention the highlights, new questions, etc. Please add to them! There were some great things revealed, adept writing in the science/faith theme, and some new mysteries that I hope we get to explore a little more in the episodes to come.
I agree completely that Ben tried to kill Penny before getting on Flight 316. It makes sense. He was dripping wet and bloody by a marina. Presumably this would have been whee Desmond had his boat anchored.
Great that you put all of the other short discussions into one big disussion and adding some info!
For the bloody Ben part, I can’t think that the blood wasnt Penny’s based on his “promise to an old friend”. Maybe he killed he, maybe he didn’t, but I think that she was involved, seeing as they are near to a marina, and the above information.
Pretty nice recap, kimberly!
While I am accepting of the notion Widmore may have gotten to Kate, I have a couple of other people up for consideration.
Carol Littleton, is definitely out. Kate would not let her know about ‘the island’ anymore than Ben would.
I think Sun would not be a consideration either, because Aaron could be found.
What I do think is possible, and something Kate would not want to ever speak about, would be, if she gave Aaron to Sawyer’s girlfriend, who is not involved directly.
She would be much harder to track down, given her skills. Their friendship has been kept under wraps. She’d be an ideal choice.
My last choice, and would likely be Kate’s for that matter, is her own mother. You know what they say about blood!
Ok, I was going to give this all a couple of days to sink in. I know I keep saying things like this, there were some good new info and characters, blah, blah. But i for the first time in a while on Lost, became truly Lost in the episode. I just found myself, since maybe sometime last season (the Constant perhaps?) just amazed by the storytelling, and was nothing short of greedy for more. I couldnt think about theories or anything, just got caught up in the show. Simply amazing.
Ok, back to the theory. Great job on the discussion post, I am at wits as to find a place to begin. Hmm, Ol’ Pappy Shepard perhaps. I think I’ll start there because I dont really get it. It is kind of crazy to introduce this man at this point in Lost, with not even a breath of him before. Either way, I must say, the way he was sitting in that chair…no way, that would seriously be to easy. And Im one of those “they want you to figure things out sometimes” kind of people. They do! They give us things on a silver platter sometimes, expecting, and theyre usually right for us to say, “Noooo, they wouldnt make it that easy”, and then it is, in some kind of Lost, backroad, 3 hours out of the way easy. But this…nope, I dont buy it.
Hurley, I said it before, and Ill say it again, Hurley will have a signifigant role on Lost. It seems as if Hurley, is beginning to find his destiny. He risks his life to be on the plane to begin with, not a very “Hurley” move. Hes usually up to help, but niot in regards to going back to the island. He saves all those people. He didnt have to, Ben obviously didnt care who was on board, as long as the Losties were there.
I dont even know how to tackle, the Jack, Ben, Kate stories. All I know is when Jack opened his eye in the opening scene 1) I s*#t you not, I thought it was the first scene all over again. Yeah, they got me right off the jump.Speaking of the jump, damn he hit the water hard LOL. Ok, on to Ben. We see Ben at his absolute best. This is why the character is still around. Not to apologize to John “Im sorry I made your life so miserable”. No your not! Or coax people to go back, “If you knew what i had to do…”, I would probably punch him in the face if I knew. Oh the nerve, the “reading” comment, the non concern for human life, the twisting of words. Thats why I love him.
Kate, oh Kate, what have you done with Aaron. People! Is that what someone looks like, when they know their child (or at least A child that they treat as their own) is in a safe place. Didnt Kate have sex with Sawyer right after she felt bad about Juliet and Jack? I love Dabs idea about Kate carrying Jacks baby, but who acts like that. She couldnt have seemed more delusional than if she would have called him Sawyer. Hell, I thought she was drunk at fisrt, and wouldnt even remember in the morning. But she did, “See you at the airport”, thats it, after all this time, once in the sack and…not even good bye..something is bothering Kate. It has to do with Aaron, and I do NOT believe, for a second, that Aaron is in any way, shape or form “safe”, at least from in a usual, everyday sense of the word.
Im going to take my own little leap of faith here, and say that she was acting like someone who just came from a funeral. Someone who knows the grief from losing a loved one, but also knows they are in a better, “safer” place. And that place is…drumroll please…the island. Maybe not at this exact moment in the way you are thinking, but eventually. She abandond him, Claire abandoned him, Thomas, freakin THOMAS abandoned him. Please, dont think there wasnt some kind of connection there.Come on, important child who seems to be all the rage when it comes to who is to raise a child. I still stand by my theory. Some believe Ben is Thomas’s father. Some belive those people are wrong. I belive Thomas is Ben, yep, read my theory on it. Some people believe my theory belongs in “FUN”, which it is :] .
But I seriously think that is true and I think we are past the halfway point of finding out who Thomas is. His character is not gone, I wont believe it until the last episode airs and they dont show himm again. Anyway, theres my rant. You knew it was coming Im FAR from done, and I have a couple crazy ideas in my head right now, that Im almost afraid to post because, well, they’re kind of crazy. Great idea for conversation, great ideas all. We..still have work to do…on this one.
AES, I totally hear you….but….I just finished re-watching the episode and made a HUGE discovery!
The show was simply amazing! I think this episode may have broken the record, in terms, or re-directing everyone’s focus and attention as to some of the WHY.
Spill the Beans Dabsi! Im dying on this one. I know I missed some big things. I do have a question on a different level, but still involving those who had to return as well. But you have good gossip and I want it.
AES, lol we were posting at the same time!
Great thoughts, and I love the idea about Aaron not being safe and being on ‘the island’ again at some point. Did Kate make a deal with the devil?
I think what we were meant to take away about Ray, was the word, ‘illusion’. You know how the writers like to draw our attention to these things.
I also think Ray’s part was to deliberately deliver Christian’s shoes to Jack.
Hurley’s resolve and confidence level has risen dramatically. He is an integral part of this little drama.
As for Ben, I think he is going to keep us guessing about his status. He is definitely on the side of good, but his personal ‘demons’, cast him on the side of darkness at all times. It’s a slippery fence he sits upon.
He says the most outrageous things! His blatant lack of respect for human life, amazes me. Perhaps in Ben’s case, they are only numbers.
AES, I promise to post it! I just have to write it up!
I’ll try to get it done tonight.
Riddle me this at least, is your theory on Aaron and Kate? Ben? Sorry, Im usually patient. Looking forward :] I have an idea, noy really a theory, but an idea, and it is kind of nuts.
The more I think about it the more I become convinced that Ben is not the callous bastard people would like to think.
In Lost black is white and white is black. Up is down and Down is up.
Jin is a possessive bastard who makes his wife’s existence a living hell. Wait, no! Sun is a hard conniving bitch and her father’s daughter and she sells her husband to her father to save face.
Sawyer is the selfish turd who screws anyone and everyone over and stockpiles… Wait, no he is a hurt child who punishes himself all his life by turning everyone he truly loves against him. Misguided self-sacrifice… Or self-preservation?
Jack is the purer than pure reluctant hero. Competent in everything he does and giving to a fault. Uh, maybe the self-flagelating control freak who mostly gets people into serious jams…
Anyways, you get the idea.
When Ben tells Jack ‘Who cares?’ I think he is pulling the doctor’s leg because he knows what will happen. I think this is not his first time returning to the island. Flying Hararat or Ajira airways. Chartering a plane to fly a specific course over the pacific. Think of all those myriad of international passports and various denominations in his drawer in New Otherton. I have long believed he has had a secret ‘other’ way of leaving the island and coming back without using the slow and ponderous submarine. Think of Richard secretly taping Juliet’s sister and nephew Julian in the park and then being back on the island a few days later to push Ben around in a wheel chair. Think of Tom sipping Pink Ladies in a penthouse hotel room in New York with michael and then a few days later being executed by Sawyer on the losties beach. Think of Mikhail talking to Ben about Bonnie and Greta: ‘I thought they were on assignment in Canada’. Think of Jill the Butcher and Ben and Richard’s people around the world on ‘assignment’. They must have had a better way to get on and off the island. Think of Richard saying to Locke ‘That is privileged information’…
My guess is that you can ‘flash’ onto the island by overflying it when one of the windows open up… No crash. Just a puff and then you wake up there, unless there is an ‘incident’ that crashes you.
Maybe Jack’s father and grand-father have been on the island, and maybe Jack, as a baby was there as well for a brief time. Be claims to have blacked out and does not remember the actual crash of 815. Does not mean he was a plant and it does not mean he was not on the airplane.
I just remember Jack’s mother telling him in no uncertain terms that he HAS to go get his father back. Could she have chosen the flight after consulting her travel agent (Hawking travel?)
Any takers to this notion.
Andre7, I certainly like your ideas, on how the plane did not crash. In fact, I would love to see you expand on this with a theory, and also explain further how this might work.
As for Ben, I do think Ben ultimately serves ‘the greater good’, but he has shown a lack of regard for human life. And, he is definitely vengeful.
I’m not ready to think Ben is the Dalai Lama just yet. He is so fraught with imperfections and flaws.
However, I am fascinated to know more about him.
He also didn’t care if the ‘freighter folks’ were blown up either.
dabs, I think it is unfair to compare the circumstances of not caring for the “possible” death of the other 316 passengers, and not caring for the death of 15-20 freighter people when his “daughter” had just been murdered by the man that would chain-kill the freighter if he died. We know Ben lost his mother, we know Ben lost Annie, and we know Ben lost Alex. It’s his weakness.
cappayne, I completely agree with you on Ben’s weakness.
And, it is a dangerous weakness he has! I can’t wait for his back story. Perhaps, it will be easier to determine those fragility’s, and get a better handle on his true self.