Amy…Am I wrong?

Ok, heres the deal. Im giving an opportunity to change my mind on something…I am already halfway there. There has been some good discussion on the site over whether or not there is ability to change something in the past or whether it had already happened that way and this was just a part of it. I like to word that second part that way, because it is how I had to think of it instead of the past cannot be changed…zoomed out a little further to accept others ideas. I am an open minded person and tried to give way for a different perspective. I along with Dabs, has been in discussion with username, highbrow and pjk on this particular subject. They are good theorists and think in realistic terms and can be very convincing…and I am not easily swayed.
But a combination of their insight and something I have been thinking since watching LaFleur, may change my perspective…at least alittle.
I stand beside Desmond being able to change things, I feel Daniel is capable as well. Examples given upon request. What I feel differently toward though, is the Amy situation. When “Lafleur” ( I hate calling him that) saved Amy from whatever was going to happen, I felt he saved her life. Some feel they bagged her to take her away. My biggest rebuttal was 1) Richard didnt seem to know of this, so where else would they be taking her. 2) Why would they bag an unarmed woman, then point a gun at her forehead as they did, if she was blindfolded. I like to use the words “motive of movement” maybe for a general prosecution. But they persisted to argue other reasons that I was incorrect (very mannerly and respectful i might add). Then the one thing that I myself had thought of during the episode entered my head again. And during one of my comments i said,
“‘So pretty much you are saying that this season is just one big season long flashback of pre 815, and the O6 return, yes?”
And remembered someone… “Amelia”
Went back and watched the part with her and Juliet from a mobisode.
Very similar in height and appearance. Same type of demeanor (i know, compare though), Same type of hairstyle.
If Amy is Amelia, then she did not die the first time, because we saaw her old.
I could be very wrong in speculating and assuming this, but then what was Amelias Signifigance?
Why her of all people would Juliet show the folder to? Could she have remembered Juliet from her past, and befriend her because of it? Could this be why Juliet was brought to the island to begin with? Why she was choosen for this research. Because maybe she was the last successful deliverer of a child on the island.
I know there are many people who seem to resemble and hold the same name as others, but this is more peculuiar and odd to me. Granted she would have been Dharma in the 70s and Others in the 90s or 2000s but that led me back to the original discussion.
If they were not going to kill Amy, Where were they taking her? Could it have been an others con/inside (wo)man, as Ben was, that helped with the purge down the road. I have speculated that Widmore jumped ship to the Dharma, as Ben jumped ship to the Others. It would make sense if that were true, due to the battle between Ben and Widmore.
Maybe there are other traders in the mix and she was one of them. I am still leaning the other way, but maybe this can be used to help me look out a different window.
Like many episodes of Lost, they show us what happened in another time, all the while leading us to believe it as a different one. Whether present past or future, done to make you understand what is to come. maybe this is one of those times. Maybe this is just a season long flashback. Help me make my decision.

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Abbot Enheduanna Schwarzschild Name meaning: -Abbot: Father defined by or in religious connotation/definition. From the beginning, Lost was riddled with religious tone and it was obvious it would play some sort of role. Seemed fitting to start here. -Enheduanna: Mesopotamian High Priestess and the modern civilization’s first recorded poet. I created the name after season 1. John explaining backgammon history to Walt spawned the idea that the island may have a link yo the beginning of civilization and maybe even time itself. It was “poetic” and important to add this to my pseudonym. I needed the mother of poetry in modern civilization to match the religious “Father” in my first name. -Schwarzschild: Reference to Karl Schwarzschild and Schwarzschild Black Holes. Smoke monsters, hatches, and curing paralysis doesn’t point to black holes…but the sci-fi elements ran deep and obvious. The wheel moving the island and transporting Ben felt like it got plucked from my imagination. A.E.S.

103 thoughts on “Amy…Am I wrong?

  1. Something else thats bugged me for a while with Juliet. She was told of Bens infatuation with her…
    “Because you look just like her..”
    The question is..looks just like who?
    The answer may be…HERSELF
    Maybe she went under a false name in the past, maybe not. Maybe that is how she was choosen, Ben remembered her as something signifigant to him, when he was a child. Knew she was capable of delivering children on the island, and brought her there, killing two burds with one stone.
    The woman of his dreams and destiny, and the ability to deliver a person capable of giving life on the island. Maybe that is how he became the ‘Others leader’?

  2. AES, you did a fabulous job in presenting the information! You are always so creative with your thoughts.

    I wasn’t sure what track you were going to travel down, but I really like this one. If, I were to be swayed in a different direction, it would be along these lines. I also had one thought which could play into this, but haven’t thought out all of the ramifications of it, yet. I’ll give it some further thought.

    Nice work, in presenting the opposing view!

  3. Dont get me wrong, I am in no way doubting the faith aspect of the show. I just think that it is possible, we are just witnessing a very long flashback, leading to the losties destiny…possibly…

  4. I didn’t see your comment, until after I posted mine.

    If the thought I have is viable, it may lend support to your thoughts on Juliette.

    Give me time to ponder!

  5. wow, A.E.S. it never occurred to me that Juliet was the woman Ben was referring to in the past. Good catch! He would not have known it to be her because she had a different name/persona. I can’t wait until we see young Ben, if we get to see him over the next few episodes.

  6. But why wouldnt they remember …”Capitan Lafleur”? Not like Sawyer has a forgettable personality…unless Ben did remember, and counted on all this to go down…again?
    …Amelia…is this possible?
    Dabs, do tell.

  7. How do Jin and Daniel play into all of this. Obviously, Charolette remembered Dan, why wouldnt anyone remember Jin?
    Ok, you have me going now…Now help me with some of the other things. Danielle and Jin, Capitan Lafleur reign as leader of D.I., this still doesnt mean it is not possible to change the past, but its a real step in the right direction.
    Oversll, I feel the show is about freewill and defying fate. The question is, does this play into the future. If an untravelled road has not yet been seen, can one change his future or fate or destiny?
    If they get back to the 2000s, can they change what their true path is? How does the incident fit into all of this?

  8. I’ll think on this some more, but first a question.

    If this is one long flashback, explain the actions and more importantly, the REACTIONS to events that occurred in the future, like the plane crash, the interactions with Dharma stations, the fears of the ‘unknown’ and the Others that came with landing on the island, and then even pre-815…all of Juliet’s reactions to coming to the island, etc.

    Because a flashback would mean that Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, Jack, Jin, Sun, and Sayid all have been there before, and would be familiar with the island.

    And if it is a flashback, when 815 crashes in September 2004, and only the O6 get off in December 2004…then where does the ‘record skipping’ explanation interrupt and stop the skipping?

    Do those questions even make sense?

    (I swear I need a whiteboard when I think about this show and discuss it on this site!)

  9. AES, I admit that I will not be able to expand on my line of thinking to any great extent, and fill in all of the details, but here goes with what I have.

    We learned from the writers back in Season 3, that Causality (cause & effect) was a major theme in the show. The philosopher Desmond David Hume studied both Causality and Retrocausality.

    Causality is based upon the cause occurring, followed by the effect. Retrocausality allows an effect to occur before the cause. It is based upon phenomena or process that reverse causality. These are known as variables. Eg: time travel, electromagnetism, etc.

    This might apply to what we are seeing on Lost. What if, for some reason (yes, I have one in mind) that something occurred with time, and past events created an effect before its actual cause?

    I realize this may be difficult to understand, but it also may be a reason why they had to go back in time. To actually change ‘the cause’.

    So, you could be onto something. I am prepared to keep an open mind, and see which way the discussion goes.

    I hope it makes sense, and I apologize for not being able to work through the details in a way which makes for easier reading or understanding. But, I know you will figure it out!

  10. well we know there was a list that was given to michael way back when he became a traitor and tricked the 815ers into getting caught. the list included 4 of the 815ers who are currently or will be in Dharma –
    * Jack Shephard
    * Kate Austen
    * Hugo Reyes
    * James Ford

  11. This is a side comment to Dabs…sorry for taking up your space AES!

    I have read on David Hume, and his writings, theories and explanations of cause and effect, time (and our perception of it), and the existence (or not) of God. I have always thought that it seems like LOST would make him proud as a social/scientific explanation and discussion of his ideas. It’s as if the writers wanted to create an environment to test out his ideas, the arguments for and against his theories, and then create the discussion that followed – much like it used to happen hundreds of years ago, yet without technology to fully flesh it all out.

    Thanks for bringing him up.

  12. kimberly, I think it only fitting to mention Desmond Hume, because I believe he IS the variable.

    I totally agree the writers wish for us to discuss all of the ramifications of his work.

    We definitely need a whiteboard! lol

  13. AES, If your hypothesis is correct, young Ben would have encountered Juliette and perhaps formed a rapport with her.

    Ben would in fact remember her, to some extent. I also think, the reason LaFleur may not have been remembered by Ben, is because he was never there originally.

    If you think back to one of my previous theories, I mentioned that ‘the losties’ are the ‘course correctors’

    That element would not change in either scenario.

  14. Username, I have thought about that list quite a bit this season, as I feel like there is a significant connection.

    Are you saying that it is ‘evidence’ that implies that when 815 crashed, the O6, plus Jin and Sawyer knew that they were going to be captured, potentially even arranged for it in their past? Or is it just part of the connection between their past existence on the island and the events that were bound to happen in 2004? So, if they are afraid, unsure, etc. it’s because they genuinely have NO IDEA who the ‘current’ Others are but know that they are headed into danger?

    That’s what I mean by the importance of the REACTIONS in the last four seasons. There’s been the discussion about Locke’s statements of whether something was “supposed” to happen or not, which somewhat supports the idea that Locke has known all that would go down in 2004.

    But, what purpose does the list (of the 4) serve? Does it tie into what they are going to do that we have yet to see? (And when do they do it, in 1970 something or in 2004?)

  15. I am still leaning towards the Losties being “Course Correctors” as Dabs just brought up. I’m open to this discussion though.

    Here are my other initial thoughts and questions.

    – If this is a flashback, lets use Kate as an example. We have seen plenty of Kate flashbacks prior to this. Her cons, her relationships, her crimes. This is just one flashback we have yet to see, her in 1977 on this island. BUT WAIT. How could she exist in 1977 when she was probably not even BORN? Does she die on the island and Kate who cons, burns the house, evades the marshall, gets on 815 – she’s Kate, reincarnated?

    Maybe I’m not tracking. But that’s one issue I have, it’s pretty hard to explain how this happened already and all the age issues of our Losties.

    Now lets go to another issue/question.

    – Memories. How can Sawyer tell Horace about a girl he loved and eventually forgot about? (Oooooh, is the ‘twist’ that he wasn’t talking about Kate?) Maybe, but doubtful. He remembers Kate (and Hurley and Jack) but he knew them in 2004 when on September 22, 2004 his plane crashed with them on the island.

    SO, how does he remember the future (evidenced by future relationships/connections) that he has yet to have if this is his one and only 1977?

    I don’t think it’s his one and only 1977, I think he – along with the other Losties – are course correctors.

    Hack away at these thoughts, or give me some really good explanations.

    🙂 Wow this is fun.

  16. Two words: Polar Bear.

    Ben does not know Sawyer, Juliet and co. They do not exist in his memory. They come to the island between 2000 and 2004. Only then does he come to know them. They are not part of his memories of the 1970s and 1980s on the island – until they flash back on the island. Then Ben wakes up on a cot in the hydra station and remembers them. Same way Desmond remembers Daniel telling him about his mother. So now 2007 Ben remembers and knows where Juliet and the losties are.

    Ben arrives on the island and these people are just a part of the background Dharma ‘noise’ as far as he is concerned.

    Someone (Chang?) builds a time-space teleportation device in the early 80s. The losties go through it in order to get back to their own time.

    Later (2004) Ben will destroy the chamber in order to get to the Donkey wheel behind it.

  17. Hi Kimberly, you pose a lot of good questions and thoughts. One way to think about it is with respect to the numbers that are were being repeated from the radio tower. We have now heard the voice of those numbers and many are postulating that the voice is that of Hurley. So we have a case of Hurley spelling out the numbers in the past (why we don’t know yet) and Leonard, a patient at Santa Rosa, who repeated the numbers in which Hurley heard in the future, plays the lottery, bad luck, etc. etc. flight 815, crash on the Island. mind boggling stuff, but kinda cool when you think about it. Basically, Hurley set the wheels in motion for himself to go to the Island in the future that would allow him to get back to the Island in the past. Maybe the list works the same way. I’m not the best at putting my thoughts to words, but some of the others here might be able to extrapolate on what I just typed and put it into words that make sense.

  18. Some good thoughts, Andre7.

    One thing we should keep in mind is, we know it is 1977 where Sawyer et el, are currently. We know ‘the incident’ happens in 1988 (?) followed by ‘the purge’ in 1992.

    We also know Widmore was tricked to leaving ‘the island’ by Ben, some time in this time frame, but not exactly when.

    If we view ‘the island’ as a record that skips when the FDW is turned, then it would have happened when Widmore exited as well.

    This could have caused ‘the island’ to skip in time, as we just presently seen.

    For this hypothesis to work, ‘time’ and events created a ‘domino like effect’, and this is where things all started falling apart.

    Perhaps, this is why all of the major ‘island players’ possess so much knowledge of what is coming, in terms of the war.

  19. Dabs, you brought up something that has been nagging at me. (Poor AES…I am so off track on your Juliet idea!!!)

    If Widmore was on the island until no later than 1992, then it would be a given that Penny was born on the island. Unless, the ‘intern’ in LaFleur subtly explained it away for us that usually pregnant women go off island to give birth, which would mean that Penny was taken off island. But then, would that mean that she returned, as it would be assumed that the mommas and babies would come back?

    This would also then be true for Daniel if we stick to the assumption that Ellie from 1954 is Eloise, his mother. Right?

  20. kimberly, I think something is wrong with this time equation. That is why I suspect something ‘hinky’ with time happened in the past, likely when Widmore left.

    Widmore was 17 in 1954, said he was on ‘the island’ for 30 years. Depending on when he arrived, he would have left close or prior to 1984. This would have preceded ‘the incident’ and definitely ‘the purge’.

    I expect we are in for a surprise when it all plays out.

    Widmore could have had Penny off of ‘the island’. I don’t think Ms. Hawking is her mother.

    One other note of interest, which just occurred to me is, that both causality and retrocausality are occurring in the story line. As if, it weren’t confusing enough already! lol

    That’s why we are having difficulty getting the story to play out cohesively. It’s all mixed up.

  21. Dabs, I don’t think Hawking is Penny’s mother either. I was more referencing the standpoint that if Ellie is Eloise, it will be interesting to see when she left the island and had Daniel. Just like I’m reminded of how and when Penny came into the picture as Widmore’s daughter with this timeline.

    And I bring up Widmore because of the Ben-Widmore relationship and situations that have occurred, all the way through to 2005.

    I think Ben’s actions are key clues to support or deny this idea that the Losties affected the future course of events and what their roles are in course correcting.

    Yep, it’s all mixed up and interconnected and brain frying.

  22. I got a little confused on the Widmore, Eloise whole thing.

    Ellie is definitely Ms. Hawking. Presumably, she and others, may have left ‘the island’ before any of the real mess occurred.

    Right now, it would be too difficult to say if Daniel or Penny were born on ‘the island’.

  23. When I think of Lost, I think of the opening scene with Jack waking up in the jungle on the Island, Vincent walking up to him then running away, Jack standing up looking in his Jacket and pulling out his drink, than for no reason at all of sudden he runs to the beach, stops and you hear nothing but waves, than out of nowhere to the left is a few screams, etc. Jack runs towards the screams.

    And from that scene and after a lot of thought I realized,

    1. Jack knew how to get to the beach which was kinda odd, how did he know the directions?
    2. Jack went to the beach on purpose which was kinda odder? If you just crash from a plane and land in the jungle, wouldn’t your first instinct be the other survivors, plane wreckage should be near by.

    Theory – Jack was on the Island before and that’s why he knew the direction of the beach.

    Theory – Jack knew the plane crash was on the beach and ran to that direction because it already happened before.

    Theory – Possibly between that moment of silence on the beach and the moment of a scream, we witnessed our first occurrence of a time flash, not like the others, but in one instance the beach was calm, the next we are in 2004 right after the crash

  24. sorry but my mind has gone blank but what was ‘the incident’ again? because on the time line i believe this could be when ben tricked widmore into leaving. cannot remember wot it is tho lol

  25. Kimberly, no sweat for going off topic, that is how I created this theory to begin with ;]
    Also. back to your flashback question…

    “Because a flashback would mean that Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, Jack, Jin, Sun, and Sayid all have been there before, and would be familiar with the island.
    And if it is a flashback, when 815 crashes in September 2004, and only the O6 get off in December 2004

  26. Kimberly, this could make some kind of sense…that part you said about Penny. If Penny was born on island, it would be assumed before the pregnancy problems began. With that. ANY little girl we see on island could be her. There was talk about Charolettes age in contrast to a birthday Ben gave about her. Maybe it was Penny and Dan thought it was Charolette, maybe he says it to the wrong little girl by mistake. Maybe Penny is somehow Annie? Anything would be possible, most not likely, but possible. And if she was taken off island for her birth, it leads me to two question. 1) who is her mother? And more importantly, something I believe overlooked, again not likely but a possibility…2)Is Charles Widmore…her real father? Ben claimed Alex when she was not actually his…Why? Is it something required, to have a child to be leader?
    I may off base on this question, but why not ask. We were led to believe many things about peoples parents, only to have the rug pulled out from under us, why not this?
    Now, as for me, I dont think it will actually play out in this fashion. I dont think Pennys timeline will play a huge role. But if it does, I might be grasping for straws without more info, but Ill be looking this direction. A twist like that…they wouldnt throw us a curveball about a father/child relationship…

  27. The show is taking place in a time that has already occured. The question is, can you change the past?
    Short answer: Yes…at least a little
    Long Answer(shortened): By changing the past you know, you are only following the universes true path through the present, and into both futures.

  28. The record skipped, everytime timetravel took place. Desmond not pushing the button, Ben turning the donkey wheel, and every single last flash that took place. The record rotates, when time moves at “normal” pace.
    The real problem now being…what do they do? Live in the 70s on an island, fight in the war that is coming?
    Doesnt it seem, the way Widmore speaks, as if he is still following island time?
    “There is a war coming..” he tells Locke.
    Creepy old man…
    Anyway, or do the Losties return to their true present, 2007?

  29. i rekon the word constant just struck gold with me. i cold be wrong but do you think richard is a constant thats why he is constant and never changes. everytime we see desmond and daniel they have always looked the same aswell…..constant??????

  30. in the word ‘constant’ that would mean that they are the things that everything else revolves around. they are constant and everything else changes around them. meaning they alone can change things that happen but agen this is debunked because of course correcting which we saw with charlie. then agen joined together desmond with visions of the future and daniel with knowledge of time will they be able 2 figure it out and somehow change the timeline while keeping everything else on track 2 happen the way it should?

  31. AES, I do think it’s possible for Amelia to be Amy. Quite plausible!

    You are forgetting something, AES. They are in 1977. Daniel said, the record is caught in the groove on the same song. It will skip again, and move. To further along in the same song, or another song, or to the end of the record. This is what we don’t know at present. Nor, should we jump to any conclusions, where the show is going next in time.

    I do believe both causality and retrocausality are playing out in different ways. Can you see how these occurrences simultaneously would lead to a ‘domino like effect’?

    This would wreak major havoc. If ‘the powers that be’ know this will happen, and I suspect they do by now, they know this catastrophe/war must play out in a certain way.

    I think if we see a few more episodes, it might be easier to determine more of what’s happening in this regard.

  32. I only read about half of the comments, so sorry if I repeat questions or thoughts. My problem with Jin, Sawyer, Juliet, Kate, Jack, Hurley, Daniel and Miles being to the island before is still that there is not enough recognition of the island by those characters in earlier seasons.

    As early as episode 1, Hurley has to ask Jack what his name is, even though they are alone (with the exception of Claire, who is too busy not having a premature baby to worry about people already knowing each other).

    Secondly, if Jin is around with DHARMA doing what he does, then how does he all of a sudden lose the ability to speak English in 2004? Other “events” can be proved to have happened already, but there is no defense to Jin completely forgetting a language that he knew damned well in 1977.

    Whatever happens from 1977 to 2004, those back in DHARMA time don’t seem to age much, if at all. It is ludacris to think that there would not have been any knowledge or references to some people from the past recognizing some of the losties. I’m talking Alpert and Juliet specifically. Also, Miles, Faraday and Charlotte don’t seem to know anyone at all when they get to the island, while Faraday and Miles worked in DHARMA with some of them before.

    I still think that things that happen in the past make things different in the future, but that these 1974-1977 events that we have seen happen after those in 2004, just like Charlotte suddenly remembers Daniel telling her not to come back to the island when she is dying, and just like Desmond suddenly “remembers” Daniel telling him to find his mother.

    So whatever is happening now in the 70s, if and when 815 crashes again on the island, Hurley, Jack and Kate and Sawyer and everyone else who was together in the past will recognize each other.

    I think that the very ending of the show will be 815 crashing again on the island, except there is no issues with The Others, no issues with Smokey, no issues with anything, and all the losties remember or start remembering each other and they live on the island, starting a new colony, knowing that the island is where they want to, and where they are supposed to live.

    Or something along those lines.

  33. dabs u just made me think something….i could be wrong and probably am but do u think ben tricked widmore into turning the wheel so that he could go back in time and try and change something? unlike most people i think widmore was always an other and never changed. aswell ppl refer to the way richard spoke to widmore. can u remember when he visited locke when he was a kid and the way he spoke to him for pickin the knife. yet locke is his new leader. i think widmore was the leader and ben became his ally and promised to kill all the dharma which he did therefor gainin widmores trust. he then fed widmor sum bollocks about what turnin the wheel would do so widmore trusting him turned it and left the island……just a few ideas to throw around. sorry if im pissin u off dabs. i dnt mean to lol.

  34. Wes, I have tackled this exact subject in recent posts. I have been trying to present them in a way, so that they fit together in the end. Check out some of my stuff, it may not turn out to be correct, but I assure you, my theories will make you think.
    Cappayne, read the comments. Anytime I write a theory, read the comments. Its usually about 5 minutes later, more important things come from the original. Thats how this post was created to begin with. That…and Dabs as usual egging me on ;]
    I answered the question on their memory of the 70s to Kim.
    Their time lines are not coinciding with the universes timli…just read the comments. too much to explain again

  35. Now that I have read some more, I wanted to touch on a point username made about the first scene of the show.

    Maybe Jack did not crash at that time, but flashed there. He wakes up in the middle of the jungle, sees Vincent, and is hella confused because Vincent was only on the island post-2004. Then he feels something in his pocket. A bottle of vodka, a bottle that he had when he was on the plane. This makes him realize that he has flashed to the time of the plane crash, runs to the beach, and gets there just before the flash fully executes, which is why there is a delay in the noise of the other survivors.

    Maybe this is wrong, but just a thought.

  36. There is another ‘catch’ to this debate. It has also been a hot topic on lost. I am curious on two things and would love to hear answers. Yes and no will do fine, elaborate if necessary.

    1-Do you believe that the past can be changed on Lost?

    2-Do you believe there is a timeloop on lost?

  37. This thought moves my brain back to that debate…the dreaded timeloop.
    Hearing the opinion of people who believe in changing the past/not, and timeloop/not, will make a very large difference in the way the rest of this post goes.

  38. No i dont think the past can be changed and I dont think they are in a time loop just because i believe they will make it back to present day somehow. therefor exitin the timeloop and it not being a timeloop. Make sense?

  39. Wes, no disrespect, but I would like to get more insight from other theorists I have been debating both of these subjects with.
    Calling it a night. Will be back tomorrow to further debate. Please return. You make good points, and more imortantly, make me think. Good discussion. Will continue here tomorrow.

  40. Sounds serious lol. U have my answer….i hope it helps. just to add i do think timeloops would be possible in lost i just dont want it 2 because that would be a crap ending lol…..ends with jack waking up in the forest haha…..the first scene of the first series…..i wud cry if that happens lol

  41. AES, interesting point about Juliet and Ben… I had assumed that the comment “(she) looks just like her” was in reference to his mother, who he only knew through photographs and her appearances as projections.

    As far as your questions… you know my feeling on the subject… I do not believe that events can be changed. I have various reasons for believing this, and not just Dan’s saying it is so. I think as the last season and a half unravels, we will be shown more and more incidents of our time-traveling friends incurring events which appeared in the beginning of the series… the whispers being a great example. They do things they were meant to do.

    Because the island itself is a kind of “sealed vessel”, it can actually be used to prove through experiments in time travel that time itself is inflexible.

    Case in point:

    If the losties are changing events by being there… then they are creating an alternative future. In an alternative future, all of the events following their presence there in the late 1970’s are different. Which means that Ben and his entire storyline are changed. If Ben and his storyline are changed, then the eventual storyline of the 815 survivors is changed. Without events happening exactly as they happened, Ben will not turn the wheel and unstick time and John will not “fix” it and get everyone lost in time. If that doesn’t happen, then the future doesn’t get changed. And even worse, if they don’t get lost in time, then Ellie and Richard won’t properly dispose of the bomb with Daniel’s advice, and the whole freaking island gets blown up and made permanently radioactive. It’s a paradox.

  42. I completely agree with you PJD. Someone who undastands what I mean at last. Well iv literally been awake all night as it is now 8am and iv been writing and reading lost theories all night. I think i’m off to get a showa to wake me up and refresh my mind.

  43. I am new here. I was reading and earlier someone mentioned the first episode where we see Jack start off in the middle of the jungle. At one point when he gets to the wreckage, right before he starts rescuing people, he glances up toward the sky. What I don’t think people realize is that in the first episode we see Sawyer light a cigarette while gazing at the wreck from a distance. His hair is nicely gelled and he doesn’t have a spec of dirt on his clothes. He exhales and walks away from the jungle toward the wreckage and… glances up at the sky the same way Jack did… Please watch this. I don’t know if it is relevant, but I think some of the theories of why Jack was far away from the wreck could be applied to Sawyer too. Anyways, have at it.

  44. Ok. I want to try and explain something people have been trying to explain. Ill try to keep it shorter and less confusing.

    If I am 20 years old, I have all my memories up till when I’m 20, not after that, right? Lets says soon after I travel back in time, lets say 15 years ago, but in my 20 year old form, and live my life 15 years in the past. Any new memories I make in my 20 year old form will in no way enter my 5 year old head, unless i tell my 5 year old self something.

    So Jin learns english when he is OLDER, and cannot retroactively learn it, even though he is in the past. Because when you experience something, it only affects you from then on. The type of time travel the O5 are doing is quite obviously different than Desmond’s time travels. He travels consciously, back to exactly where he was before, and relives moments now with future knowledge. The losties are PHYSICALLY time travelling, and can exist in two places at the same time. I hope this helps, even thought it wasn’t short like I promised.

  45. cappayne, thanks for reading my post on the pilot and Jack. You hit the nail right on the head and explained it better than I could. I believe without a doubt that this is exactly the case.

    Milkmoney, welcome to the thread and your comments are going to get me to watch it one more time for the 20th time :).

    you know some people think the first episode will be the last episode, which is plausible. I believe the last episode could actually be the first.

    DB that was for you – Retrocausality 🙂

  46. “Because a flashback would mean that Sawyer, Hurley, Kate, Jack, Jin, Sun, and Sayid all have been there before, and would be familiar with the island.”

    Not really. It’s the islands past but the characters’ future. If leaving 2004 and going to 1977 means that your 2004 self (before going back) remembers the things that happened then after they go back (while they’re in 1977) they shouldn’t remember anything that happened to them after 1977. I think it’s easier to forget about the year… that’s only relative to the island. Think about each character moving through their life which each day coming after the previous day.

  47. Oh I had this thought on free will too…

    I don’t believe that they can change the past. Whateve happened, happened. Whatever they do will help make the future as we’ve already seen it.

    Some people argue that it means that the Losties don’t have free will but I disagree. Their future choices aren’t made for them by fate. But in a way they’ve already made them for themselves.

  48. PJD, my thoughts are that you can change events but you cannot change outcomes, as evidenced by Desmond and Charlie. Desmond wasn’t going to save Charlie in the end but definantly changed the events leading up to his death. I think what this says is that if you are able to see things in the future you can change the events leading up to the occurance but that the outcome will never change. Or even the way in which the occurance will happen. Like if you knew that you were going to die then you could change how and when but not that you were going to die. Make sense? Let me know what you think.

  49. Losthead,
    I posted a response to this in another post. Basically Desmond seen several probabilities of the future event of Charlies death. The one fact is that Charlie had to die, what happens happens, how it happens is determined somewhat by freewill. In a closed time-like curve, different choices can still be made but the net affect will not change the predetermined result.

  50. “Do you believe that the past can be changed on Lost?”

    At this point in the show, I think that the past events we are witnessing on the island _are_ the original timeline. I just can’t fathom a reason that Richard Alpert would visit John Locke off the island on an original timeline, to me the only explanation is that John Locke had always visited him.

    With that said, no, I don’t think the past events can be changed, because what we are viewing are the past events as they originally happened.

    “Do you believe there is a timeloop on lost?”

    No. I think the reason Jack _knew_ to go to the beach and start helping people was because watching him wander around the jungle for a half hour wouldn’t make a very good pilot episode =).

    I think the reason he is in the jungle and isolated was because the writers wanted to give us a “rabbit hole” from the beginning so to speak. Start with an isolated man in the jungle and quickly see just how far down the hole goes once you see the white rabbi- er, dog.

  51. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying…

    I thought you were saying that since Sawyer, for example, had lived in 1977 on the island then he should already know about the island when he crashes on it in 2004.

  52. See highbrow, this is where it gets tricky! 🙂

    What you thought I was saying is what I was inferring would happen if this season is a flashback. (My way of debating AES’ theory, since I don’t completely agree that it is a flashback.)

    So my argument or point is that this is NOT a flashback in the same terms that other flashbacks have been in seasons 1-4. These events are happening (CURRENTLY) because if we take the ‘one-day-at-a-time’ approach, this is their PRESENT day and therefore they are affecting the future since they are in a timeline that, as of 2004 in THEIR lives, has already happened.

    Oh my goodness, I don’t know how to explain it better than that, and it’s confusing at best.

    I’m not so much debating fate vs. free-will or physics of timeloops. I’m advocating for the Losties, the characters of the show, having unique roles as course correctors. It actually creates somewhat of a middle ground, I think. And would make sense as a good plot and discussion for a television show! (All my opinion.)

  53. Username, that is exactly what I said, just in different terms. You can alter the way things happen just not the outcome. If someone is going to die then they are going to die. I think the producers were setting up the fact that our losties may affect the way things happen without necessarily changing the outcome. I think that is why they showed Desmond helping Charlie. They wanted us to know “the rules” if you will.

  54. It depends, I guess, on who or what you’re talking about. Is it a flashback? Yes, for the island it is a flashback. For Sawyer? No, this is his present time. Not a flashback.

    I thought I read something between seasons four and five that there woundn’t be flashbacks in season five. It’s wierd how we see different times but really, no flashbacks. Just like they said.

  55. The Losties are a part of what happened. Nothing will change, not even minor events.

    Desmond “changing” things was different. He was getting a vision of the future (may or may not have actually been visions of the future) and trying to make sure those things didn’t happen.

  56. So if this is the present, be it 1977, this means that some characters have lived in 1977 twice, but this one now overrules their past one, when they were a child?

  57. Yes, they exist twice (assuming they’re born before 1977). Once on the island and once back home wherever they’re from. Nothing is overruled though. We just hope they don’t come into contact with themselves. As long as they stay on the island they should be fine.

  58. not overruled, but existed in addition to. on the island they are separate from the world and wont come into contact with themselves supposedly, although sawyer was near the beach watching kate and claire when his other self (actually from that time) was off somewhere else.

  59. Yeah I think that is what they showed us when they had the rabbits on the training video and they did not want the one to come in contact with the other. I think it should be pretty well known that they are not in a flashback, so their memories are currently being created. In other words this is all happening after the 815 plane crash so they do have some knowledge of D.I. and the others. They also possess knowledge of events to come. Now having said that, if they do have this knowledge can they effect the future events. I think this will be seen soon enough. I read somewhere that someone thought that the recording of the numbers sounds a lot like Hurley so he could have been the one to record them and start the transmission of the numbers in the 70’s and because he did not have the memory before the crash he did not know that it was him that recorded them. Which actually makes me think that maybe we will see them leave clues for themselves for future use. That is for another theory but I hope this makes sense let me know.

  60. Did Hurley or any of the other Losties even here the numbers repeating over the radio? By the time they got there Danielle had changed the broadcast to her distress call.

  61. Well, I expected some comments, and am glad to see many major players on the site jump on this one, along with some new faces as well…as I said earlier, welcome to the circus.
    Ekolocation…your “20year old” example is exactly my understanding of how this all works. In my opinion..perfect.
    Highbrow… “Not really. It

  62. NOW….as for the “changing things/timeloop” idea. These are easily two of the hottest topics on Lost. Not just now, but have been for a while. They have just shown their ugly faces often on the site lately, and with recent episodes, I may not have come up with an answer…but maybe at least a choice for us to make connecting both of these subjects. I am going to attemt to explain it, if you dont follow, speak up. If you donot agree, run screaming through the site to get my attention, because I dont know how this doesnt make sense. I feel that a disagreement with my next statement, would call for me to say something I dont say very often in life, and have never said on this site to anyone, but “you are wrong”.
    I say this with no disrespect, just need to hear me out, and you almost have to get it.

  63. Ooooh, go for it AES. Because I just started writing out a huge long comment and decided to write it as a theory (with a link to this post) to keep it up in the “Theories” section!

    Bring it on!

  64. By the way, for clarification of where I (at least) am coming from…

    I think the timeloop discussion actually is different than the changing the future discussion. I know some people might make the two one and the same, but not I.

    I just saw a comment that said that the “first time” Danielle and her team neared the temple, Jin wasn’t there, but then when the flashes started he went back and altered this event from how it originally happened. I don’t think that’s the case…

  65. If there is NO way to change the past, meaning, that no oceanic survivors, no others, no anybody that travels through time has the capability…without at this point, resulting in a timeloop. Not one of my “lets be friends with antiloopers” timeloops, no, a full blown, going round and round timeloop. Heres why.
    From the time the donkey wheel was turned by Ben, to the time John turned it and stopped the island from jumping, that is the beginning and end (you decide which really happened first) of the “loop”.
    Now, I can already hear acharaisthekey typing madly at me, but thats just how it is. Why?
    Because if it is true, that NOTHING can be changed, there is NO possibility, that Ben will not turn the wheel in 2004, and even less possibility that John will not turn the wheel on 1974. 50 years, the timeloop runs. More possibly, but no less unless you are counting days, and even then, if John turned the wheel on the date of Eloise Hawkings picture, then 50 exactly.
    For the slightest change to occure, affecting anything or anyone of importance, it would throw the timeloop theory out the window, plain and simple.
    If nothing changes, we have a simulatanious run of everything occuring between these dates, to not only stay the same, but to ensure to us the viewers, that there is NO way to break the cycle.
    If everything happens as it did, Danielles boat still shipwrecks, Ekos brothers plane still crashes, which both have. And 815 still crashes and everything we have seen in the first 4 seasons of Lost happens EXACTLY as it had. Same people live, same people die. Same structures are erected, same are destroyed. Nothing can change, and history, in the eyes of THE ISLAND (metaphorically speaking) will repeat itself…it has to, because if it doesnt then….something is different than before. If something changes on Lost, this gives the possibility that the “loop” can be broken. Anything. I dont care if its Charlie being saved, or the freakin statue resurecting itself, its all the same.
    Heres the thing. As I said before. Desmond saw Charlie die in a vision of the future. Not a vision of what he thought was going to happen, but a vision of the actual future. By saving his life, even for a second ( I dont care what Dan or Mommy says) it “changes things”. It changes the short term timeline of the island. People talk of the butterfly effect, this is an example. DO YOU REALLY THINK IT IS COINCIDENCE ONE OF CHARLIES FIRST EPISODE TITLES WAS THE MOTH?
    Yeah, it was originally put for a different reason. But either the producers are picking up their missing pieces, or I am doing it for them. By Charlie living another second, minute, hour, or day, it changed what the original outcome was supposed to be.
    You may argue, Im sure some will (hi highbrow), that this is all part of the master plan/timeline of the island. But heres the thing…no its not.
    Like I said Des was not daydreaming when he saw Charlie die over and over, he is borderline psychic. I say borderline, because I dont think he knows the future by magic, but by science.
    I feel that if Des or anyone else can dely things for a second, minute, hoiur, day again, why not push the envelope. Why not have someone delay things as long as possible, to get the island out of this loop, that it MAY be in.
    Now as for you anti change, I have something for you too, aside from Juliet and Amelia/Amy.
    The simple fact that they are…where they are, shows us, that as of now, as fine theorists here have stated, NOTHING has changed…that we know of. If Amy turns out to be Amelia, Sawyer didnty do squat, whether you believe it or not. Because…duhduhduh…they are still where they are.
    I know pro changer…what are they going to do, just flash back to their original timeline…..?……Yes, why not? Why couldnt they if the past was changed? What, it wouldnt make sense? People flashing from one time to another without knowing what the hell happened wouldnt make sense?
    Random thoughts/knowledge jumping in or out of a persons head on Lost wouldnt make sense? A person forgetting/losing their memory for no apparent reason wouldnt make sense? Hope I pushed that understanding, it would make sense. If something changes in the past, it would change the future.
    I saw some alternate timelines/dimensional comments. Well, no need here on Lost, because here on Lost, there is no need. Here on Lost, if the past changes, instead of another reality suddenly existing, it simply changes the perspective mind of the person/people that the change would effect.
    IE: Dan telling Des to find his Mom.
    This did NOT happen in Desmonds timeline the first time. Why, because he would have remembered it. Yes something as trivial as seeing another human being screaming madly about time and help and mothers, then suddenly disappearing, would probably have a lastsing effect on a person. Especially when the person is locked up in a hatch by himself pushing a button for years on end, with noone else to talk to except his comrad, who eventually if not already, will die. Say what you want. But if nothing else, I think Des would have remembered the man who did all this, AND THEN DISAPPEARED IN FRONT OF HIS OWN TWO EYES!

    This is a touchy subject for me, knowing my original view, which was Timeloop=yes, change=no. I just dont see it possible.
    There is a wrench in the road ahead though…the future. Everyone, myself included, keeps saying that the past cannot be changed, but the future can.
    #1, Ill be the first to admit, that is not the same thing. Of course the future can be changed, it isnt set yet…BUT…
    If a timemachine exists on the island in 1974 and in 2004, then why the hell wouldnt it exist down the road, barring noone destroys it. But following what we have going, noone can destroy it until post 2004, maybe even 2007, if that is the year the O6 returned. Why? Same reason, if its destroyed before, then change occures.
    So, if the machine is possible to exist in the future, it leaves something open…something big. There are two people, at least, in the “true” future, who are well aware, that there is a magic wheel capable of sending the island travelling in time. They both know, because they both turned it, each taking their place in history as the perputrators who started the whole thing. Ben and John.
    We have seen the island in the 70s, and post 815. But what about post 316. John doesnt realize, but technichally, in island time, he turned the wheel first. In universe time we know, it was Benjamin. But obviously dates and time mean nothing on Lost.
    That being said leads ,me to my conclusion…what is time? What is the true purpose? For us, people, to have a means of measurement. But in more technical terms, it has almost no boundries, only the ones that we give it. This is where the fate/freewill question really digs in.
    You cannot change the past right? What if the past is your future. You ladies and gentlemen did a great job of showing us how the island is in a sort of flashback…as Desmond was. He was not just in a flashback during “flashes before your eyes” and “the constant”, but he was living his destiny, his timeline, his future, while everyone else was living their past. Get it. It is not just our perspective, or the losties perspective in a manner of one “view” only. The perspective is seen through the eyes of the person experiencing it, the people who have no idea what is going on, and the people who know of the timetravel and “help” these people find their way.
    By Mrs. Hawking telling Des, he is desined to push the button…he does. For all we know, she may have just changed the past right in front of us. Maybe many “loops” ago, Des bought the ring and he and Penny lived happily ever after. We will never know unless they show us though. Des would NOT remember that, the same way he DOES remember Dan saying to find Hawking.
    Ive said it before, and Ill say it again. Father time is no fool, we are, and anything that has happened before will happen again. That is unless, the concept of faith, as I predict will come back and stand toe to toe with fate.
    I cannot wait to hear responses on how the island is not in a loop, is nothing can be changed. Change naysayers, you have swayed me, I am on your side, at least for the moment. But in the future, I think the true faith of not only John Locke, but the other losties, maybe even Ben will come back to have a final battle with free will. And my theory will be blown to pieces by the power of the first blow. But for now, thanks to everyone who made me see a different view. I am in no way saying that loop/no change or no loop/change is the right answer.
    All im saying is that if you have a belief in one, you better make room for its counterpart…because I do not allow myself to be proven wrong often, as I feel I was in the change/no change debate. Which oddly enough led to me writing probably my best theory in a long time. This, marriage of the two concepts I feel MUST go hand in hand to make sense, but we all know, I have been wrong before. Give me your best, Im prepared to debate this further. Also, sorry for the long comment. I have so many theories that tie together, that are not fully understood without reading the previous, that I felt this was important enough that it had to be left in one post. cant have one without the other…not now anyway ;]

  66. Kim, you know I respect the hell out of your comments and opinion, but if they dont tie hand in hand…I have got to know what the reason is. I cant see “no change” without a timeloop at this point, it just baffles me how it is possible without the faith/religious aspect coming into play at a later time. Which also, would throw any kind of actual research on the subject out the window by adding a variable to our…”constant”…sorry, I had to

  67. AES, I’m going to the gym. I will think about how to respond. And then I will make sure we are functioning off the same definition of timeloop. (I know that is where we could be differing to our own undoing of making a point.)

    I’ll be back later.

    BTW, from a quick read, your whole ‘definition of time’ thing is back in line with David Hume’s theories and having to create reference points based on experiences. SO interesting.

  68. Post it, and they will come!

    People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. – A. Einstein

  69. Guess what. This is all part of the master plan/timeline of the island. Yes, it is.

    Desmond changed the future by making certain decisions in the present. He didn’t change the past. That’s a pretty big distinction. It would be different if he had lived through those events then gone back to change them. That would be a paradox. Instead he used knowledge of the future, not the experience of it.

    I still don’t believe that anything can change and I don’t believe in time loops. Maybe my view of this is too strict, believing that not even minor details can change but they can’t. If the Losties in the ’70s change the island at all then they’ll affect the way the island has affected their past selves and that will make them different people. There is no such thing as a minor change. Call it the butterfly effect if you want, it

  70. I thought Faraday said there is only 1 string, unless that is wrong.

    Also, I have a question on this subject; about Hurley.

    Danielle hears a transmission of the numbers when she is in 1988 or whatever, and then tells (some of) the losties that she heard that transmission signal.

    Later, Hurley arrives “back” on the island in 1977, which is AFTER 2004, and after Rousseau told them about the signal. So how did Hurley manage to make the signal before Rousseau heard it in ’88, if Hurley arrives in ’77 after ’88 happens?

  71. ’88 had happened before ’77 for Hurley. Not for Danielle.

    I really believe there is one and only one timeline. Back to the Future rules do not apply (I think)…

  72. Listen McFly, If Hurleys timeline goes from ’88 to ’77, then his timeline is different then the rest of the worlds.
    I have to know, why so persistant on only one? You make a good case, dont get me wrong. I just dont get why you can believe in timetravel, but not the possibility of 2 seperate timelines. Is there some scientific reasoning, a big theory I havent heard? Seriously, I am curious. Time literally goes from the future to the past on island, but not in the real world. The island is seperated. Its bubble allows these things to occur, the real world does not have this ability…at least yet…at least that we know of.

  73. AES, I knew you were kidding, I just can’t tell how much it tickled my funny bone!

    highbrow can handle the remark, and the humour!

    See what happens highbrow, when you cross over to the ‘dark side’ and join the ‘night stalkers’ of the site!

  74. 😀 finally somewhere i can delostify nd let out some theories 😛
    love the way you express yourself A.E.S 🙂
    Ok here goes
    Locke turns the wheel in 1974 but wakes up in Tunisia in 2007 in exactly the same state as when he left the island. This is also exactly what happened with Benjamin except his time jump was nowhere near as long as Lockes. Now When John “landed” in 2007 in Tunisia There was a camera pointed on the exact spot where he appeared. How could anyone know where he was going to appear? because two years previously Benjamin Linus also appeared there after turning the exact same wheel. The men that responded to lockes landing worked for Widmore. How could widmore possibly know
    where the “landing pad”(im thinking helicopters here :o) was unless benjamin had told him? [Dont forget these two arent exactly best buds so fat chance of that happening] Answer: Charles Widmore also turned that wheel at some point. Now in S4 Ben told Locke that whoever turned that wheel couldn’t come back to the island therefore in Universe time locke [if ben is telling the truth(again fat chance of that too)]Could never go to the island in the first place(now seen from lockes point of view)because he already turned the wheel back in 1974. But doesn;t Locke seem a bit creepier nowadays? thats because the man we saw on the beach wasn’t the same locke we all know. before he got to where he is now Locke was suffering from a very serious case of dead 😮 and therefore he was resurrected[resurrection-anagram of Bens truck logo) much like Christian.
    It would appear that Ben Linus is very much alive right now (in the season) and therefore it would seem that he lied (like always) when he said that wheel turners couldn’t return to the Island.
    But one thing that Caught my attention when the O6 were “transported” onto the island as they flew over it was the fact that only the O6 ended up near each other with no sign of carnage or any knowledge of what happened.
    Now When locke is on the Beach he stares out over the sea onto what we woulod suppose is another part of the island
    but what i noticed was *thank god for my widescreen* that the coastline doesnt go out of view on either side of johns view of the island (i know badly expressed but rewatch it and you will see what i mean)
    conclusion: They AREN’T on the same island 🙂 now please jus shoot that lot full of holes i needed to release it all and will be glad to hear some responses 🙂


  75. Skil1 – I think what you said is all true, but it really isn’t anyting that we have not spoke about on this site yet.

    We have covered that Locke, Caesar, Ilana etc. are on the small island (hence the Hydra, the runway, and the island i the background of a picture of LOST)

    We know that Ben lied about not coming back to the island if you turned the wheel. Although it is different for some: if you turn the wheel and travel to the future, you must die to return. Since Ben traveled to the present, he was able to just go back, no need for death.

    And yes, Ben tricked Whidmore into turning the wheel.

  76. I think the “cant return” concept, is misconstrued by Ben from cannot find the island to return. His eyes showed a sparkle when he heard John knew where Hawking was. He knew he could return. He knew the O6 were going to help him. And he knew, that John was going to turn that wheel and end up with him.
    Hope to see more of you here Skil. As Cappayne said. Check out some of the sites theories. Good stuff here.

    Cappayne, if Ben traveled to the present, where did Locke travel. Granted there is a time difference of only months when Ben does it, but what is the difference between months and years from a timetravelers perspective?

  77. I’m late on this one! I thought we were picking this up in the follow-on post.

    Yeah, I can take it, no problem. I like to think I can give it too…

    Here’s the issue I think we’re having. There’s timelines and then there’s timelines. When I say Hurley’s timeline I’m referring to the sequence of events from Hurley’s perspective.

    Check this out. Jack is at the bar knocking back a few drinks, poppin’ some pills, whatever it takes to get him going… anyway, he leaves the bar and gets himself pulled over. No matter what he tells the officer about needing to go back to the island or how much he complains about how much his beard itches the cop insists that he step out of the car for a field sobriety test. Jack finally complies.

    “Walk along that line”, the officer says. Jack positions himself on the line and begins to walk. Now, it might seem to someone who is inebriated that there is more than one line and that can be confusing… that’s the point of the test. In reality there is only one line. You need to clearly see the line in order to walk along it.

    So Jack takes a step, then another step, then another. Next thing he knows his mind is spinning like some kind of donkey wheel! He stumbles, spins around backward and takes two steps in the wrong direction moving back along the line. The officer is not surprised. Jack regains his composure, turns himself back around and moves forward a step before turning around and moving back three steps. He then moves forward two steps only to get dizzy again and he ends up back all the way at the beginning of the line and falls down on his face. He rolls onto his back only to see Officer Jacob Shepherd standing over him like some kind of ancient statue. The officer promises to get Jack a tissue for his bloody nose.

    One line with just a few drunks moving forward and backwards.

    When I say

  78. A quick ctrl+f search for Ethan leads me to believe that no one has brought up that Amy had Ethan. She had him AFTER she was rescued by Sawyer and company. If they hadn’t saved her, Ethan never would have been born and we never would have seen him in the future. This means that on our current time line Amy was saved by the losties. I suppose this Ethan could be different from the Ethan we know but I simply don’t like that and don’t think the Lost writers would do that.

    I believe it’s very possible that Amy is Amelia. Going on the Ethan bit, it is very possible that when Ethan switched over (born in Dharmaville but working with the ‘Others’ in 2004) his mother would come with him, or she changed sides and Ethan came with him. Can’t remember which season but in the episode where Ben takes John to the Dharma pit he says, “I was ONE OF THE PEOPLE who made sure I didn’t end up in that whole, which makes me considerably smarter than you.” Thus he wasn’t the only one that switched.


  79. Another great example. I think the whole point of this entire season has been attempting to make it clear to the audience that what they are seeing is BOTH a flash back AND the continuation of the storyline. It is a flashback in terms of the “history” of the island, by reviewing events that have already happened to Dharma and Others characters we have already seen… thus… Juliet delivers Ethan, Sayid shoots Ben, Kate takes Ben to Richard who brings him back to life and makes him evil, Locke instructs Richard to witness his birth as well as gives him his knife and compass. No doubt we will see more and more “past” events explained as the main characters live out their “present”. I’m betting we will see the Losties being responsible for the origin of the Numbers, the Incident, the escape of the polar bears and dozens of other events that will later on effect them in their own past. If we don’t see them this season, we will certainly see them next season.

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