Benjamin…Flashbacks….An answer for Cappayne

“Is what we are watching a flashback?”
This is a great question…
…and this is a question in desperate need of an answer. I am going to try to help.
It is definetly not simple.
The answer is yes…and no.

It is a flashback for the island. A flashback for anyone who was on the island…as a past version of themselves. Meaning Ben, Richard, the others, any living dharma, if possible, get my drift here?
The 815ers, are not part of this. This, is their present or future, depending on what timeperiod you are looking from, selves.
To be fair here. This idea can exist, without change, loops, or multiple dimensions…so long as everything happens as it did in 1977 that was there, before ‘our’ 815 crashed.

Two things on this that will most likely be used as argument.
1)There is the possibility, that one or more of the 815ers have been on the island earlier in life, as a child maybe. If that is the case, then these individuals, would also be included in the flashback…so long as they were there in the timeperiod we are going to view.
2)Ben. Ben is the only one who HAS definetly been on the island before. He is the only one who is in a flashback, and left the island, so it would be his present as well. The O6 and Locke and Lapidus when they get to 1977, will not be in the flashback category, because it is their youngest self that has ever been there, using their age as a viewpoint.
Ben, on the otherhand, has been there at an earlier point in his life and timeline. The Losties, and company, are experiencing the year of 1977 for the first time.

I do not want this to be looked at in terms of multiple timeline or not. Because it is and it isnt. The closest argument would be to say the timeline is broken, or looping, or some term thats going to start a four alarm.
I just want to show, that it IS going on, just not for everybody. It depends on whos story your watching at the moment. If the start year is 2004, and Dharma is dead, its kind of hard to say its not a flashback. Please remember, the year the show started in (the plane crash) was 2004. To see scenes of a past time, would more than likely cover the use of the word flashback.

Now if you are viewing this from a 1977 perspective, then the Dharma is in their present.
Perception, perception, perception.
It depends on what window you are looking out of, and from what timeperiod.

My guess as to what a possiblity of two Bens being on the island at the same tmie means, is as good as yours.
Easy answer…Thats is what happened before, and what happened, happened.
Long answer…This is different and change occures.
Ben going back to a timeperiod, and staying in it with a younger version of himseldf on a reasonably small island, could most likely lead to something huge. The reason older Ben being more important than anyone else on the island is so unbelievably simple it is almost easy to miss.
As far as we know, He is the only one with the ability to cause something disasterous to occure. Like the bunnies from the video, he is the only one who could create…whatever would occure if the bunnies had touched. Incident anyone?
I also have mild thoughts that ‘older’ Ben may be the one who tricked Widmore off the island. This could be part of the change.
Change or not, Who is to stop this Twin Ben duo from running the show?
Desmond? Sawyer? Jack?
My bets on Locke, but there is much to learn before we learn the outcome.

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Abbot Enheduanna Schwarzschild Name meaning: -Abbot: Father defined by or in religious connotation/definition. From the beginning, Lost was riddled with religious tone and it was obvious it would play some sort of role. Seemed fitting to start here. -Enheduanna: Mesopotamian High Priestess and the modern civilization’s first recorded poet. I created the name after season 1. John explaining backgammon history to Walt spawned the idea that the island may have a link yo the beginning of civilization and maybe even time itself. It was “poetic” and important to add this to my pseudonym. I needed the mother of poetry in modern civilization to match the religious “Father” in my first name. -Schwarzschild: Reference to Karl Schwarzschild and Schwarzschild Black Holes. Smoke monsters, hatches, and curing paralysis doesn’t point to black holes…but the sci-fi elements ran deep and obvious. The wheel moving the island and transporting Ben felt like it got plucked from my imagination. A.E.S.

127 thoughts on “Benjamin…Flashbacks….An answer for Cappayne

  1. Further, maybe Ben arranged for certain people to be on that plane. Maybe the O6 were the only ones necessary, aside from John. The question is, if this is true, what is Bens motive now. Is it simply to get revenge on the 815ers that did him wrong?
    Could the rest of the Losties wrong Ben in some way in the future of 1977?

    If Bens does somehow envoke the incident, which by the way, I for some reason am relating to the ‘volcano’ on the island and a realease of unlimited energy.

  2. Ok, one last thing.
    As for the information Ben is knowledgable of.
    Many speculate he learned it from the Losties, which he did, some of it at least. Or that the older Ben told him once he gets to the island. There is also the old school of thought that makhail, and others like him, gave Ben info on the Losties and other things he shouldnt know.

    But let us not forget. The concept of concience timetravel was introduced to us for a reason. I think it will be more than to explain why a brain has an anyeurism during timetravel. I think it will come back to play in a great way. And not saying this will happen, but what is a better way to bring it back, than to learn Benjamin may have grasped the concept of concience timetravel. Hmm, what could his constant be…Island? Maybe too easy.
    Not sure on this part, but wanted to try a new approach.

  3. AES, is it even necessary to comment anymore?

    Your ‘new approach’ at how Ben gets his knowledge is definitely interesting. I agree that the show often gives multiple reasons for showing what they choose to reveal/explain/show/etc. So if Ben has this special ability, it could make things quite interesting. And it would help reinforce that we should know that he always has a plan.

    I think the thing that still gets to me is that we have seen how many times Ben manipulates people to get what he wants. So it would be taking it to another level if he not only mastered manipulation of people, relationships, words – but then add to it, conscience time travel. I kinda like to hate on him because of how he uses people, if he also uses time travel, then it almost makes him untouchable…or something else…

    And I will just say that I think you started this theory with a great explanation of the gray area that exists right now between flashback and present tense.

    It’s worth saying (since I haven’t said it for what, 10 days or so now…) that once again bringing up the ‘theories’ or major issues from some of our old school philosophers like Hume is great for people like me. 🙂

  4. Thank you very much AES. It all makes sense now.

    I guess the only debate now is – looking on from an island flashback – is this exactly how 1977 on the island played out?


    Kidding. Good explaination. I’m not looking at this as a flashback. I prefer to think of things from the perspective of the characters. I’ve come to know, for example, 30-year-old Hurley. If I see a story involving 10-year-old Hurley then it’s a flashback… unless I’m seeing 30-year-old Hurley observing 10-year-old Hurley… That wouldn’t be a flashback…

  6. so say a 2000 year old island and dead corpses of 20 years, 30 years in the past….flashback to1970 year old island with the corpses alive…why do you make me ramble highbrow?

  7. i keep going back to the brain washing video these days – Only fools are enslaved by time and space. flashbacks, time loops, time travel, are all concepts that exist and don’t exist. If you are not bound by space and time, none of these things have relevance. i’m starting to feel it’s pointless to argue that any of these things are happening, and it’s pointless to argue that all of things are not happening. it’s all perspective, and i believe some of the characters are not or no longer bound by space time.

  8. Rambling is mostly what we’ve been doing here for some time… lines have pretty much been written amongst us theorists and we’re now just talking about what we think of this and that while we wait for definitive answers.

    Just to keep things a little straighter in my head though since we have people here and there along the timeline, I don’t even consider the islands perspective. The only thing that matters is the perspective of the characters.

    Kate in 1977 knows that her deltoids are going to get out of control and become very mannish no matter what she does. Because from her perspective it happened in the past. All she can do is go with it and show off by lifting Jack over her head.

  9. Rambling/Theorizing…Tomato/Potato, same thing I guess…
    Theorizing is what Faraday did before Charolettes death, Rambling was what I saw after..
    and yes, I will debate almost anything for no reason or real purpose…I cannot help it…sorry

  10. I was just kidding… sitting here, doing some work, talking Lost… waiting for a comment to pop up…

    If Ben needs a constant for any reason I think it’s Juliet. She meets the criteria better than Richard does because Ben doesn’t seem to care too much about Richard. I’m not sure the island counts as something that can be a constant… don’t quote me on that though because how would any of us know? Juliet though… she probably saves his life and she’s hot. She’s a natural choice.

  11. He cares about the island more than Juliet.
    Never said it had to be a person, just something you care about.
    Juliet was only necassary for his revival of the gunshot wound from Sayid. Thats why inn his future, her past, he takes care of her. So she at least thinks he has some good in him. So that in her future, his past, he ensures he lives to the point we see.

  12. a.e.s, why do you think ben cares about the island so much, he seems to be doing whatever the hell he wants these days. turning the wheel against the direction of jacob, trying to play leader when john is supposed to be the chosen one. he’s a selfish little bugger that will do anything to kick widmore’s a$$ at anyone’s expense include the island – imho. thoughts?

  13. Yeah… Ben knows a lot about the island and so far he’s been the loving caretaker only so long as it suited his purposes. I don’t think he cares that much for it. Look at Ben next to John Locke! John loves the island. By comparison Ben just wants to get it drunk after the prom and never call it back.

    Juliet is hot enough to make my point. But I’m going to assume that she saves his life in five days which will make her all that much more important to Ben. And I remember when Ben actually said to her “because you’re mine”.

  14. AES, the island may be the key to infinite energy, eternal life and awesome mangos… that’s why everyone wants it. But not why everyone LOVES is. Those aren’t reasons to CARE about something. John CARES. He LOVEs the island. It’s different.

  15. Bens twisted mind views it as a way to fix things. I think that is a fundamental point in Lost. Fixing and redemption.
    The island is my idea for what his constant could be…I dont think he has or needs one though.

  16. If he does go through ‘something’ other than your normal shot in the chest, fixed by a doctor…than maybe it is his relationship to Juliet and the island playing a role in him being fixed…Dont think he needs one though

  17. I just think that the first interpretation we were supposed to grasp was incorrect.
    John cared about nothing but the island, and Ben seemed to care truly, about the people.
    I think John will realize the error of his way, and turn his focus from “I have to save the island”, to “I have to save the people on the island”.
    Ben…well I think more and more every week, that Ben cares about no one but himself…and maybe Annie.
    Dont forget about Annie. If Juliet is his true constant, then the introduction, and story of him and Annie doesnt really carry much weight or signifigance.
    And I have full belief, that Annie will be back, during our stay in the 70’s.

  18. Annie could still be important. Horrible things have happened to Ben. He’s been beaten by Lazlo Hollifeld, he got shot in the chest by Sayid, he’s surrounded by hippies all the flippin’ time… The last straw could be losing Annie… We don’t know why she isn’t still in Ben’s life. Something horrible may have happened to her…

  19. Most likely. I just think Ben sees the island the same way Sawyer, and Locke, and Juliet (this season).
    A way to start over.
    He just has different intentions and priorities.

  20. I seriously think Ben is using EVERYBODY.
    For either revenge or personal gain.
    Hes a snake. The greater good I spoke of earlier this year may in fact protect the island, but I think its his reason for protecting it that is evil…

  21. i dunno. he may seem selfish, but he is being obviously selfish. i mean he doesn’t seem to put any effort at all into making people like or accept him, and that can be seen as selfless. i mean having friends and being accepted is personally one thing i cant live without, although i would like to think i am above that and can deal without it.

    ben i believe may not be truly “good” but has good ends. with some truly evil means.

  22. No, I’m still at work… we’re having a minor crisis with file and folder permissions.

    Anyway, what am I supposed to be responding to? Oh, I don’t think Ben is either particularly selfish or selfless… I just don’t think he does what he does for the sake of the island.

  23. I personally don’t think that anyone who isn’t presently in 77 now will ever be. The island didn’t take them back for a reason. If they could go back then i’m sure they’d have gone with the rest before the plane crashed HOWEVER if they do manage to get back then I think older Ben could be Jacob….hence why Ben gets scared when Locke said he could see him. If it wasn’t for the darkness of the cabin Locke could well have seen an old timer Ben. But i still don’t think they’ll be able to go back.

  24. I think Sun will go back. The reason she didn’t flash is because the island has work for her to do in 2007/2008. I think eventually though she’ll go back.

  25. lets keep the topic on the worm we know named ben… sun just seems so boring and now that she is working with widmore who has been kicked in the butt by ben more times than i can imagine, she just got more boring (unless of course she causes the incident to get jin back).

    than again, sun hitting ben on the side of the head with the paddle, that was cool. i don’t think ben and his all knowing all seeing nature saw that coming.

  26. I think Sun will be the character responsible for a great many reveals over the next few episodes. Plus she might take a break and get down to her bikini again.

    There’s nothing boring about that.

  27. forgot about the bikini scene, long are the days when our losties hung out on the beach with nothing to do but lounge around, now you have me thinking about shannon

  28. Because those two were so useless they actually sucked the usefulness out of some of the other characters. There was a 15 foot radius around them that was like the event horizon of a black hole and anyone who entered into it immediately felt all motivation to do anything useful sucked from their body.

  29. AES, you are funny…you like to respond and give answers to things except for questions directed at you. 😉

    Bailey, way to jump in here. These guys needed another perspective represented.

    BTW, Can we at some point rule out Ben as Jacob? Or am I the only one who thinks that?

  30. No, seriously. Ben cannot be Jacob and it doesn’t matter who else is. Except Vincent, I don’t even want to go there. I’d actually go with Daniel being Jacob more than Ben.

  31. but at least we got to watch them die a pitiful, embarassing death. Unlike Shannon, who got to boss people around, fall inlove, get laid then died. lucky b*tch….

  32. dude she had it pretty good on that island. she suntanned for the beginning, fell in love, got laid then died. Thats a pretty decent way to go, when compared to the other losties….

  33. I have no idea how the “Ben is Jacob” thing would even work. I would think that those who have come into contact with Jacob are not Jacob. So Ben and Locke and out. Vincent, on the other hand, is back in.

  34. I would think that Ben’s line “are you happy now Jacob?” kinda rules him out. But maybe him referring to himself with another name is a habit we just haven’t seen yet in him?

    Highbrow, I was half expecting you to say it was kinda hot actually.

    Um, how did this go from creepy Ben to Shannon and Boone???

  35. hmm, missed out on all the paris hilton gossip. looks like highbrow to the high road and kept us off topic. maybe ben is rose and bernards child lol.

  36. Well, well, well, I step away for a few minutes and this turns into a insestuas trapped in time, vincent is jacob post…unbelievable…
    Highbrow and Bailey, you are banned from talking to each other ever again…

    Bailey, Do you remember that guy from the pilot that died, not the guy that got sucked into the engine but the other one?

  37. I have another way of looking at it:

    What if Boone and Shannon knew – and possibly liked each other – before their parents met or got married. Would the relationship/incestual child remain invalid?

  38. Btw, Kim, I actually started to write a paragraph that started…
    “please dont judge the rest of my theory on this…”
    And it was going to be about a possibility of Ben being Jacob.
    Im pretty sure, at some point in my Lost life, I have theorized just about every main character male on the island being Jacob (except for Hurley…I will be so mad..)
    Your line
    I would think that Ben

  39. lol ninni and paco. god those names are so much more appropriate then their real names. Nice work. and it’s true, they really were. At least the guy that got sucked into the engine caused a massive firey explosion…..

  40. Bailey… I would NEVER make a joke out of you. That would be wrong, mean, and down right ignorant….

    ..anything you say is up for grabs though, right?

  41. I only kidd because I know you are a good sport…

    …Btw, this made me remember something.

    Other than your ‘Hawking/History of Time’ heory, I do remember something else about you from the other site!

  42. lol…
    We were having a debate about something, if I recall, it got kind of heated. (maybe about timetravel, or you sleeping with your brother or something) regardless…

    I said something along the lines of…

    “you are a guy who seems to know what your taking about, but…” and I went on being right…

    And you replied…”That would be good…BUT IM A CHICK!”

    And I said “..sorry MAN..”

    AND you told me to SHUT UP, and put a smiley face up..
    lol, I laughed for like 20 minutes for some reason…lol, I dont know why it was so funny, but thats how I determined your sex…lol

  43. On a completely unrelated note…I miss Dabsi here. No Dabs, I didnt forget about you. Get that computer fixed asap.
    I need you to tell me something I did right, or set me straight…

  44. i didn’t bail!..completely. i’m just no longer slacking at work 🙂

    Glad i made you laugh! i don’t remember the convo, but it sounds about right hahaha.

  45. The island wants you to slack…

    but seriously, glad to see you here more lately. I knew I saw you pop in and out here and there, and I thought…she either found another lost site, or got one of those…what are they called again, been so long since I had one, around 4 or 5 years, oh yeah…a life.

  46. Ben’s constant would have to be Annie represented in the wooden doll she gave him for his birth day. He drags it around everywhere.

    Why else would he hold on to such an ugly thing?

    (no offense meant to Carlton Cuse)

  47. If Jacob is a future Ben and present Ben does not know it, he could say ‘Happy now Jacob?’ and it would make sense.

    I would not rule him out just yet…

  48. My god, you are a blessing tonight 7!
    Be prepared to have these statements picked apart by others.
    Just know… you, have helped me with a problem Ive had with the Ben/Jacob connection, and Annie.
    I will be back with more evidence to support our ideas.
    WE are NOT saying these are true because of these statements. I for one, am still on the fence with both ideas to be honest.
    But just know, that on LOST…anything is possible.

  49. Well, I have to go push a button for a few hours. 7 keep em in line while Im gone.

    Kim and highbrow, …input please?

    Bailey…behave yourself.

    Dabsi…Where are you?

    You wont be able to see me, but Im always watching ;]

  50. Welcome back AES I was getting lonely.

    I also love the Juliet angle. Ben’s obsession with getting her (and all the wasted time on fertility projects according to Richard) could simply be window dressing for a plot to get Juliet back on the island to act as his constant.

    As Highbrow says. He is a selfish little turd and when he says ‘Because you’re mine!’ there could be a double-entendre there.

  51. Gotta admit though, that Richard would be the more logical choice based on the evidence. If Richard understands the ins and outs of the need for constants, then it makes sense that he would go find Locke at the first opportunity when the island starts shifting in order to establish himself as Locke’s constant.

    You brought up the obvious time-loop, paradox with the compass in that scene, by the way, which many of us have conveniently chosen to forget in more recent discussions about how it all works… Just thought I would bring the words in so you won’t have to take the heat.

  52. As another side bar (I’ll have a double while I’m here) no one has thought to bring up the fact that Richard gives Locke information in that scene near the beach craft that Locke knows nothing about. It goes like this – ‘I never told you that’ ‘No? Then you will’.

    Would this not re-assure Locke that whatever will happen off the island (him dying) will be okay because he has yet to give Richard information about his wounded leg. Until he meets up again with Richard and tells him about his injury, he knows he will not die.

  53. No…Stay with Annie as the constant. The worst you get is a “you were wrong.”
    I get them every week.
    Stay with your thought. It is yours and no one elses.
    You own this at the moment, 7…

    Even if you are wrong, so what.
    It is something no one may have thought of…dont discard because of an approval rating or anything. I love the idea, and LOVE, LOVE, the doll angle.
    Why did Kate want that toy plane so much?
    Is it the same reasons Ben cared for the doll?
    Is ‘Freckles’…the girl with freckles?
    Katheine Anne Austin.

    Of course, everyone knows, Emily Lockes middle name, right?

    Emily Annabeth Locke..Yep..Annabeth.

    I was saving this one…but such good feedback on this post…why not now?

  54. Wow AES, you know when to just drop random details. Where do you come up with this stuff?

    Andre7 – great thinking on an idea that I don’t like to begin with…it almost makes me want it to be right because it’s so good! I just really don’t want Ben to be ‘special’ so I have my own prejudice here.

  55. Seriously, 7, Run with this. I’ll back you every step of the way.
    Kim, my mind works in mysterious way. But 7 here , 7 just stole the show.
    If not a theory, expand here.
    Gather your thoughts, revise, and post it later, before the next episode airs.
    I love the new ideas.
    Greatness is discovered through disagreement and discussion.

    Or I’ll just steal it…I’ll leave it up to you…lol ;]

  56. You’re right AES…he should expand it. My mind can’t (doesn’t want to) wrap around the implications of such craziness. So, to give it some more thought/detail/explanation would either irritate me because I would have to agree or just rest easy because I only like Des (and possibly Daniel) being special.

  57. I think that is a problem sometimes here Kim.
    I for one, am guilty of such thinking. People sometimes dont want to, or cannot allow themselves to believe something, sometimes, for what seems like no reason.

    Take Amys baby. People said it was Ethan. It made…some..sense that Ethan could be the child. I just didnt want it to be.
    I believe in one of my “am I wrong” rants, I actually go as far as to say that it will most likely be Ethan, then go on to explain, why Dan would work, and why ‘I want it to be him’, raather than Ethan.

  58. If you only knew me for real, you would know that it is nearly impossible for me to verbalize the words: “I was wrong.” 🙂

    So in this case, I’m not necessarily saying that I am right about something…because then I would have to say that I am wrong eventually. That’s why I like being here, it’s me practicing being wrong in a non-threatening environment.

  59. That is the beauty of the site…We get to fight our personal demons as well in a non threatening environment. Thanks Emzi!
    Wrong is the wrong word, misled is more the way I see it when theorizing this show.

    Im wrong everyday here, its that addmitance and understanding that builds character and allows people to believe your theories more. If they know you are able to be swayed from your own thought, you are a person who is willing to admit that something else is possible, other than what you know and believe.
    I believe I have used the words openmindedness and perception enough that you all know those words are my guiding light to Lost.

  60. Wow AES! I am so proud of you for this little gem! This is one of the VERY best theories I have ever read!

    Sorry, I’ll read through the comments later!

    You have definitely ‘caught the drift’, of what is going on with younger and older Ben! And, who is to say that it is an older Ben who comes into contact with younger Ben.

    He would know the disastrous effects this would have, better than anyone! Perhaps, somebody else forces this issue!! hint, hint!

    I caught something in this episode most people shrugged off I think. It was something ‘young’ Ben said to Sayid. Very strange statement. It was the wording, and I caught it! He speaks in ‘past tense’!

    You are right about certain elements of the show being a ‘flashback’ in a sense. I doubt that the future is what is required to change.

    I will go down in a ‘blaze of glory’, believing that it is the past events, which have to be manipulated to achieve whatever desired outcome that the parties involved want to have changed.

    You are right about perception, because it is solely based upon whose perceiving it, and from what angle/or vantage point!

    I have so many thoughts on this subject, I could rattle on forever!

    Bravo my friend!

  61. Oh Dabs…
    I have to say…In your few days absence, I have almost strayed to the darkside of the change/no change issue…
    Timing is everything, and yours was perfect here..

  62. Awe, that is sweet, but you seriously didn’t need my help! This is an absolute masterpiece! Just wait until you see it play out on the show! I know it will, AES.

    Dark side, you say? Where is highbrow? I’ll slap the taste out of his mouth! lol

    Glad we are reunited!

  63. Lol…the cavelry.
    It hasnt even been so much arguing, as it was just reading some of the recent comments. They make good points, but Ive always hung on the ‘change’ side… I just never let my feet touch the ground.
    I think Des may be the key to change, but Locke will make the biggest impact.

    Ben…Ben just plain scares me with what I believe he possesses…did I spell that correct?…either way, I think Des losing Penny will cause him to go and try to change something…hence my other post…

  64. AES, think back to one of my comments on a previous post you made about a week ago about the opposing sides representing six.

    I agree Locke is going to be the person who will make the most impact. Desmond is definitely the ‘wild card’ and could go either way.

    He is ruled by his heart in many cases. When ruled by his head, as in Charlie’s final demise he was brilliant! However, we will have to wait on him for a bit.

    I now see Ben as possibly playing either side! When I write and post my theory, it will be self explanatory.

    PS: This ‘ninny’ who fixed my computer reduced the font size, and I can’t recall where to change it! lol I have a king sized headache from the small font!

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