Ben – Born on the Island? – What about Annie?
You all remember the episode where Ben tells Locke that he was born on the island. Later we find out that he was born premature in Portland and was helped birthed by Horace & Olivia.
My first instinct told me, yea Ben lied, shocker!!! But now I am thinking that whatever Richard does to Ben in that temple will represent a the rebirth of Benjamin Linus because he will have no memory of any life before that time. I believe that Richard will inform Ben of his Dharma origin and about his father who he once desperately wanted to get away from. That explains how Ben will be able to go back into the Dharma Initiative as a spy and inevitably lead the purge.
This all gives Ben a valid reason to claim that he was “born on the island” since his first memory of life is probably waking up in that temple. This would also explain the gap in Miles theory when Hurley said “how could Ben not remember being shot by the same man (Sayid) who was keeping him captive in that room of the hatch” Finally Miles had no answer.
My only huge fault is that we have seen Ben reminisce his childhood by admiring the wooden dolls once given to him by his childhood friend Annie. He looked at the dolls and said “do you remember birthdays Richard?” She gave those dolls to Ben 4 years before he was shot and brought to Richard. How could he remember that???
What do you guys think?
i think he met annie after he recoverd from being shot.
No, it was before he met Richard
he told Sayid that 4 years ago he snuck into the jungle and met Richard who told him “you have to be patient” he said that he had been patient and was ready to go and be with the others or hostiles w/e.
This means that it had been 4 years since Annie gave Ben the dolls. She was the one who told him what a hostile was the first time he witnessed the “hostile alarm” going off in his classroom. She was like “get under the desk & our teacher with a shotgun will protect us”
Joshcgs, I guess Ben wasn’t technically lying to some extent about being born on ‘the island’. I consider what is going to happen to him as a type of re-birth of sorts, but not in a good way.
I think Richard was referring to Ben not having any memory of ‘being shot’, and not about his whole childhood.
I guess he won’t have a scar either. Have we seen Ben shirtless? Oh, yuk what a horrible thought! lol
that was only when he met annie. i dont think she had time to widdle out two wooden dolls in one recess.maybe between bite of her appolo bar.
ah crap, ok he met annie but the dolls came later.
diabia makes a very good point
poohbear you are just going in circles, those scenes took place 4 years before Ben was shot. It does not matter when she widdled some dolls, only that it happened around the time he met Richard, which was 4 years before he tried to run away.
im sorry, i misunderstood, i was only thinking about the dolls.
dont apologize, I want you to question the theory and rip it apart.
But you are questioning things we have seen on the show and are known to us, Ben being 4 years younger when he met Annie and received the dolls that is a fact.
You got me thinking though and now that the timeline is starting to piece together it seems as though Horace used to be with Olivia, or maybe they were never even dating, just in the car together, but something has definitely happened to her from the time Ben came to the island and she was his teacher.
but i dont see the date shown on when exactly the dolls were given to ben?
omg im such an idiot im sorry again 🙁
i think ill just stop talking.
they dont have to watermark it, they showed an episode which was a “flashback” of Ben’s life. It goes in order so we see him be born, arrive on the island, meet Annie, be told ITS HARD TO CELEBRATE ON THE DAY YOU KILED YOUR MOTHER (Ben’s birthday) – Ben received the dolls for his birthday.
It is then after his father says that to him that he decides to leave, he meets Richard in the woods.
4 years later he tells Sayid, I have been patient i’am ready to go.
How can you not see this”?
but how long have they known each other till she gives him the dolls,ben gets there with his dad in 1973 right? so… we dont know his birthday exactly.
Ben comes to the island in 1972 or 1973 yes, but we watched the order of these events for a reason.
His father treated him badly on his birthday, Annie was nice to him, but he still decided to run away.
This was his first birthday on the island, that very night we see Roger complaining about not signing up to be shot at by Hostiles.
You would think after a once or twice he would be used to it! Plus he calls them KINGS OF THE JUNGLE!!!
poohbear – get your facts straigt
Here we go, Im going to make this easy. You are very right Josh, Annie is before the purge. Ben wont remember them…but he does.
He remembers Juliet, he remebers his father, he remebers Sayid most likely. Iy just wont be the same Ben.
His memory isnt erased, its just different. His line of thought will be different. He will be an other, and taught to feel the same way towrds them. I dont think it is exactly literal.
He didnt die, he is just reborn in a faith type of way…but not exactly.
He is not reborn like Locke, but probably as a servant of the island of some sort.
And he DOES remember, he even talks about his past with his father before he kills him.
i dont want to rip your theory apart, im trying to understand myself what the hell is going on and theres so much my brain is going to explode, because when you mention annie my brain goes hayway and fixated about those dolls because ben loves then so much and her and its one of his redeming qualities.
dabs- i believe is right in believing he forgot only being shot,
Oh but those freaking dolls!!!!
and why was it that she gave them to ben saying (now they never have to be apart)? was it because he went away during his injury or was it because he confided to her that he was gonna run?
or was it because She had to leave the island?
Because his father is abusive and mean, and wont let Ben do what he wants. He controls him like a robot when they first arrive. Ben is terrified of his father…until he meets Richard.
I love your analogy AES! Makes very good sense to me!
Hi everyone, just joined after lurking for a few weeks, and I have just a quick comment about Ben not remembering Sayid shooting him when he was being tortured. Who says that he didn’t?
This is Ben, who we have seen manipulate people since the very first time we met him in Season 2. It’s clear that he survives and is welcomed back into the Dharma fold. So we know that he will spend the next few years growing up in the vicinity of the O6. It’s obvious that he will get to know a lot about all of them.
As soon as he finds out about the time travel properties of the island, and he finds out that our O6 have travelled, he can use Dharmas resources to research and track them for years before they arrive.
He may not know the exact date or method of arrival, but he knows they are coming, which is why when we see him run out of the house when 815 crashes, he is so certain that there will be survivors and is so anxious to get lists of names – to check if this is them.
So I think he knows full well that Sayid shot him as a child when he is being tortured, he just chose not to bring it up for his own mysterious reasons.
Sorry for being long winded, I got carried away.
Mykl.
Maybe Ben after his “cure” will not remember only the shooting moment not all his previous life
Here is something that is possibly intriguing.
In 1977 Ben is said to be 14 years old. (Sayid: I was just brought a sandwhich by a 14 year old Benjamin Linus’) And so he was 10 when he first met Richard Alpert outside the compound in 1973. He was born in 1963 in Portland. Olivia could be anybody. Horace’s ex-wife. Sister. Co-worker (if he was a mathematics teacher). Dharma Initiative was founded by Alvar Hanso in 1970.
The Intriguing part is that Horace stayed in contact with Roger Linus, or kept tabs on him for TEN YEARS before recruiting him for Dharma.
Pudgy, fun-loving Horace Goodspeed was friends with bitter kid-beating Roger Linus!