Dead is Dead
It’s after 9am in the Eastern Time Zone and I haven’t seen a discussion thread started for Dead is Dead. What gives? You guys are slacking so I’ll get one started’
I thought this was an awesome episode’ I think that about most of them but still I don’t think that makes it any less valid. We got a lot of information last night’
Widmore shows up and, as expected, he’s pissed that Richard has brought Ben into the temple’ or at least inside the wall around the temple. He cools off quite a bit when Richard tells him that Jacob wanted it. It was a little weird seeing middle aged Richard’ at first I thought we were seeing a flashback to the time shortly after the Black Rock had crashed’
Ummm’ what else? We saw that Ben and Ethan were responsible for stealing Alex. Danielle didn’t put up much of a fight for her daughter’ Ben brought her back to the Others camp and Charles is pissed that he didn’t kill Danielle and he tells Ben to kill the baby. Ben shows a soft spot and challenges Charles, saving Alex. It seems he was lying though about Jacob wanting Alex to live. Charles tells him that if the island wants her dead then she’ll be dead. Later, as we all know, she dies. So I think Ben was lying about Jacob there. We also found out that Ben is on his way to be judged for killing Alex. I think that when he broke the rules it was when he saved her in the first place.
So we saw the tunnels under the temple and we saw where the smoke monster comes from’ It showed Ben images of his time with Alex and judged him for her death. It allowed him to live. To mean this meant that even though Ben had broken the rules, had been responsible for his daughters death, had kind of screwed up the flow of time on the island and had returned even though it was forbidden, Ben had sincerely been a good servant to the island. If he hadn’t been then I think the monster might have just torn him apart.
The monster also pretty much confirmed for us that John Locke is the person who has been chosen to be the leader by forcing Ben to swear allegiance to John.
Oh, Caesar got shot. That was surprising! I thought his character would be around for a while! Who knows though, maybe he’ll come back’ Illana became a much more interesting character. She had people on the plane with her and apparently they have some huge agenda on the island. I wonder what was in that crate’ I wonder what lies in the shadow of the statue?
Did I miss anything?
was wondering why no one posted as well. Good job, first off. Personally, I think Ben looked the most different, what with his Hitler hair-do and everything. But I still love him! It’s also interesting that you say Alex really was supposed to be killed as a baby — I never thought of that. The island’s a pretty vicious thing if it wants all these babies killed, and won’t let babies even be born! Have we come close to figuring out why women can’t conceive on the island? Lastly, I think it can be said that all these enigmatic people (Alex, Christian, etc.) who keep showing up, are a manifestation of Jacob. Am I way off base? Anyway…
Long live Benjamin Linus!
It could be, I guess, that Alex is the reason for the pregnancy problems. The island didn’t want her alive and so it caused the problems. Ben was unwilling to kill her so he was desperately looking for another way to solve the problems… he brought in Juliet.
I did miss Ben trying to kill Penny. Either Penny and Desmond put the boat on a plane and flew it to California or Locke was sitting around as a corpse for a long, long time! Anyway, Ben shot Desmond then lost his nerve when it came to Penny. Seems Ben has a soft spot when it comes to kids. We’ve seen it twice with Ben (when he went to kill Danielle and then with Penny)… hmmmm… seems Ben and Sawyer have quite a bit in common as well…
Not sure about Ben breaking the rules because he did not kill Danielle/Alex the first time. I mean why would he be Judged for then getting Alex killed. And as for Danielle I dont think there was anything she could do with crazy Ben holding her baby and a loaded gun. He did fire of a round to let her know he meant business.
Three things for me
1. Where did Locke go when Ben summoned Smokey.
2. What was Ethan doing with Ben in the Others camp. Maybe he was Ben’s first manipulation.
3. Who was the ‘Outsider'(new term I believe?) That got Widmore banished and what does this mean. I always figured he had to turn the wheel or something along those lines.
There is lots more but anyway great mention on the crate and Llana looks like she is in the know.
highbrow, you know from our conversation last night in another thread, how much I now despise Widmore, aka ‘Chuckie’ for ordering the baby to be killed!
He proved to me, that he is indeed evil, in every sense of the word!
We also saw Ben’s humanity twice in the episode. First when Ben chooses not to proceed with his plan to kill Penny, when he sees her young child! Then, again when we see his heart felt remorse over losing Alex. When he sees what the smoke monster shows him from the past, you can see him actually ache inside.
Then again, when the smoke monster manifests Alex to him in physical form. He truly loved Alex and is genuinely remorseful.
The smoke monster judged his actions and allowed him to live upon condition. That, he fully cooperate with John Locke.
An exceptional episode, as far as gaining further insight into Ben’s psyche, as well as Widmore!
Kill ‘Chuckie’………..lol
Yeah, I’m liking Ben a bit more and Charles a lot less after seeing Dead is Dead. It seems like Ben is going to be obligated to answer all of Johns questions now which will be awesome from a viewers standpoint. I hope he lives up to his end of the bargain.
I’m not quite sure what to make of the theme we’ve seen a few times now. Twice in Dead is Dead we saw Ben on a mission to kill a woman and then change his mind when he saw her child. We saw Sawyer do basically the same thing when he backed out of a con when he saw the mark’s kid.
To build on the ‘soft spot for kids’ part of Ben, I thought it was interesting that he was ‘allowed’ to make decisions that were pretty drastic for the Others.
Locke’s question about why the Others – who seemed far more likely to be the kind of people who live in the jungle of the island – were moved into the ex-DI houses was interesting.
Ben: “What do you have a problem with that?”
Next scene, Daddy Ben pushing Alex on a swing. He moved the Others simply to offer Alex a more ‘normal’ childhood, no?
And they cooperated. And Jacob approved.
I thought it was an one more token of information to see the interesting interplay with the children-island relationship.
kimberly, I just left a comment in another theory about the purported relationship between Ben & Jacob.
The theory is by reeves4815. It is a good theory, which I recommend everyone reading. he makes some very good points!
I don’t think Ben had ANY relationship at all with Jacob. in fact, it may have been Ben himself, that had Jacob stifled, in order to still gain the appearance of being Jacob’s ‘man’.
I also agree with you, that Ben wanted to give Alex a normal childhood, and in part why he moved ‘the others’ to Dharmaville. But, it also shows that he wasn’t getting his instructions from Jacob or ‘the island’!
Ben was flying solo.
I think when we saw Ben bring Alex back to the Others camp in Dead is Dead we were seeing a time during the transition when Ben was gaining power and Charles was losing it. Since we know that Charles and Ellie shared power at one point it is possible that at this point Ben has been elevated to a position of power and he shares leadership with Charles.
If Ben had gotten away with all that then why didn’t the smoke monster rip him apart when it had the chance?
One other thing:
Was it me or did Ben recognize Christian’s name?
In the shadow of the statue is the well or the orchid. They’re looing for the entry to the exotic matter & FDW; that’s my bet. they have some fancy equipment in the case. Maybe Illana went to comic con and saw the booth video! 😉
Kim, I thought he did! I think Ben knows who Christian is… maybe Christian was part of the Other’s leadership at some point and was exiled for reasons similar to Charles…
Or…I posted a theory and Christian could be “the messenger” and Ben knows that.
But I also think quite assuredly Christian could have been part of the island/the Others.
If he was just a vision, with little connection to anything else on island, then he wouldn’t keep appearing to people like Sun. She wouldn’t care. Nor would Ben recognize him.
I think that when Sun finds Jack and says, “I met Christian” it will be nuts for Jack but I do think it’s a pretty deep connection to the island.
Christian is definitely more than just a vision. He confirmed that for us when he told Locke to “say hello to my son”…
I think “What’s in the shadow of the statue” is similar to “What did one snowman say to the other”? Ilana and he buddies are Dharma and she got Chang’s Reconsitute Dharma message that he sent to the future.
Yeah, I was thinking that as well… What lies in the shadow of the statue is a code. It must be! Otherwise there is no reason for her to ask Frank that question… I agree that Ilana is new DHARMA. She and whoever else they had on the plane are there to secure an area for the rest of the DI people to start setting up.
What nationality is Illana, or whatever her name is?
Could she be egyptian?
Im not trying to stretch any ideas, but what was all that about at the end?
Is she a native? I mean an old native, like Richard Alpert?
Regardless of Nationality, what is her deal?
AES, I believe Ilana is of some kind of mid-eastern descent, but am not certain about this.
Maybe she’s Guameranian? I don’t think it matters. She works for the Apollo Candy Company. She’s here to help reconstitute the DHARMA Initiative because they were so good for business.
What was up with Smokey’s ‘electric’ appearance? It looked like it had an electrical charge just before it showed flashbacks of Ben’s life.
Willis… I think this is related to the “storms” that happen everytime someone tries to fly to and from the Island.
She and everyone else on the plane is either DI or Widmore’s Army… if there even is a difference at this point in time. Shadow of the statue could be code… she could be trying to figure out who is with them… and Lapidus did work for Widmore in the past.
I also think that Ben recognize Christian when Sun told him about him, but then he wouldn’t be so surprised about John Locke being alive, since the fact that Christian was also a dead/alive person, or maybe Ben didn’t knew Christian was dead… The question is when did Ben and Christian met each other?
Maybe they met in Jacobs Cabin? Maybe Christian had been on the island before. He could be some kind of off island operative for the Others and he shows up from time to time to report… well, he did until he died at least… Maybe…
my thoughts on what lies in the shadow of the statue… either TIME as in its a sundial, because the sun probably moves… or lies could be lying as in not telling the truth. although time could still be the answer in that scenario beccause time is effed up. also faraday says the light doesn’t scatter quite right on the island.
Well, I think “what lies in the shadow of the statue” is just a code. Otherwise it wouldn’t really make much sense for Ilana to be asking Frank…
ekolocation: that’s interesting to me, what you said about “what lies in the shadow of the statue”….as in someone is not telling the truth. I like when people look at things from new angles. Any suggestions as to who or what?
yes, but the answer to the snowman question wasnt “nuclear missile” or “kate has scary big shoulders”. it was something that made sense.
well ben always lies. haha… no i dont really have any further ideas, i was trying to see if anyone else did.
True… but the snowman question also didn’t have anything to do with anything… I don’t doubt that there is an answer that makes sense but I’m not sure it’s going to be really all that ground breaking.
ok. thats a very strong possibility.
Or maybe the answer to “What lies in the shadow of the statue” is “smells like carrots”.
hahaha. and maybe the HIM desmond and kelvin were talking about was Ilanna. eh?
what an entertaining evening this is turning out to be! but I agree, it’s a code like the snowman one.
Sayid kissed a dude.