A Window to Change
Okay, I know this isn’t an easy topic, but there hasn’t been a resolution thus far that satisfies me. I am hoping for lots of discussion, but I know we are all better than name-calling. Feel the love!
Whatever Happened Happened is the rule. But just as most people are not able to find the island, as a general rule, there are certain situations that open a “window.”
Remember when Faraday sees Desmond at the hatch and asks him to go see his mother? Then the flash happens and unlike Ethan, Danielle, Richard, etc. Desmond actually reacts to the flash? He was the only one, so far as we’ve seen, that saw the flashes too. Daniel tells Des he is special and that the rules don’t apply to him. I theorize that Desmond is the exception to the rules, and especially the “whatever happened, happened” rule. He has the ability to change things – given a specific window of opportunity. Ben doesn’t seem to realize this, and neither does Widmore, but Eloise Hawking knows it. I propose that Eloise is involved with the shadow party, and that she will be the impetus for the upcoming war, and/or a change.
I also propose that Des is not the only exception to the whatever happened, happened rule, although he is the key to change if it were to occur. We have seen the temperamental nature of the island, and it’s sporadic bestowal of healing (Jin fathering a child, Locke’s paralysis, Rose’s cancer), access to the island (Des’ boat, Michael and Walt leaving, Sayid’s zodiac on the way back from the freighter vs. Michael’s raft leaving the island, Des leaving the island, etc.), extension of life-span (Richard) and punishment (Locke’s inability to speak after Des turns the fail safe key, Ben’s judgment w/Smokey, Eko’s death, etc.). It isn’t too far, then to assume that there will be a selection of people to have this opportunity to create change given a specific situation. Eloise is the key to creating that situation.
Nice theory, mojo!
I will avoid any discussion on this topic, though!
Daaabs, I need your insight!
Yeah, sorry Mojo… I like your theory here but this topic lately has resulted in people hurling insults at me.
*sigh*
Maybe we can agree to revisit this after everyone cools down? I know I am fairly new here, and may have missed some prior personal attacks, but we’ve come to a point where we can’t even do what we are here to do … discuss and joke around? This makes me sad!
After all, I’ve seen how you all avoid and dislike disparaging comments, and how highly you regard each other, so I’m sure no one meant to hurt anyone’s feelings over this!
Well, I don’t really think that Desmond has the ability to change things. He does have some unique abilities though like visions of the future (or possible futures). His ability though is, in my opinion, centered more around the future than the past.
Highbrow!! Thanks, man.
So do you think that the future is set as well, or that there is a possibility to change the future?
Good theory. Des is definitly different when it comes to time travel. He has a special ability to do things that others can’t do. In my mind, if you cant find someway to change time then what is the purpose of the show? It seems like there is a special “windo” where time can be changed, and thats whats causing all this commotion, someones trying to change something and it apears that it has worked, hence all the drama. Just my gut feeling.
I think that the future is not set and that it’s made up as we go along. That’s basically the “free will” / “fate, destiny” debate and I think it’s complicated with Desmond on the scene. Desmond has the ability to see events that have not yet happened from his point of view… he can see things from the point of view of someone who has already lived them but the events he sees aren’t written in stone. They can be changed as we’ve seen him demonstrate. However, from anyone elses point of view there has been no change. Desmond might see something and act to prevent or change it but to any other observer the only thing that happened is what they saw happen. After that not even Desmond can change it because it’s in the past.
This is not a useless ability by any stretch of the imagination. It could be that at some point the path we’re on (the path towards destruction according to the equation and the numbers) will be changed through a combination of Desmond’s insight and the knowledge the Pasties have gained through their adventures in the past.
That is my opinion. That is how I see things.
i’d like to take a certain thought out of this post and what highbrow wrote. what if there is only one timeline, but as many interpretations of that timeline as there are people. we all see things differently, even if we are watching the same event. we can call it perception for the sake of argument.
where am i going with this? not really sure, other than to consider that desmond maybe able to see events from different perceptions and decide which version he prefers to result. doesn’t really change anything, but whatever the event is will go down slightly different.
well that whole thing i wrote sucked, but anyway, i’m dry for thoughts on the what happened happened realm. maybe i need new episode to digest.
i think your basing this tooo much, but i think “what ever happend, happened” is not a rule set in stone, its mere speculation.
i like what your saying and some good isight, but personally i disregard the rule, so i cant believe this therum you propose.
but cool idea, i like the thought of someone having a power to challenge the islands morals!
x
Highbrow, I think you and I have similar concepts. I do think Desmond has the ability to render some type of change, and we aren’t sure what exactly that means yet. I think he sees things as they could be, not necessarily from someone else’s perspective, but how they will be if he DOESN’T change something. I agree that the Pasties (love this!) and Des play key roles.
Username – I definitely see that other people’s perspectives play a key role here. They use perspective many times to show us what they want to see, and there is no doubt we haven’t seen every perspective …
Losts-Columbo, I am definitely hypothesizing that whatever happened, happened is a general rule. Can you expound on why you don’t agree? I am still open to different ideas.
Maybe we’ll find something out in the next episode, The Variable.
Or maybe we’ll walk away with even more questions…
They’ve been better this season about answering some questions while giving more. You’re both probably going to be right.
highbrow, have you heard of the telluric currents?
our discussion is akin to arguing about the existence of god. you can say there is proof of gods existence, but where some see god others see randomness and chance. even if someone actually proved god’s existence (or lack of existence) the other side might not see the proof in the same light, such as eko vs locke in seeing the pearl orientation video. we will forever be separated.
still love this stuff though
I now know what Wikipedia knows about them.
There is a reference in wiki of a book that uses telluric currents to actually travel. Interesting reference considering the type of travel our characters do. Also, there is also a reference to several books that connect telluric currents to hollow earth theories.
ekolocation, you are exactly right, and maybe that’s why people get so fired up about it. And I’m sure that’s why the writers use it! It helps create the mystery and conflict that is Lost.
I still think the reality of Lost will include both fate and free will in some form. Either the way highbrow explained it, as being able to change the future using special powers, or a specific exception.
Mojo…what is the book spoken of in the wiki reference?
Free will, will prove to be of more importance soon. One of the more remembered episodes, for better or worse was “The Moth”. In which a little known about John Locke, shows Charlie the power and feeling of free will, by giving him his heroin, and watching him throw it into the fire, rather than just running out…or he uses the old “make them think it is their idea, when it is actually yours”, to not delay the inevitable, but quicken the outcome in a better way.
AES, telluric currents, are ley lines, and refer to the hollow earth theory, much like Umberto Eco did in Focualt’s Pendulum, if that is helpful.
AES, the reference is:
The Shadow of Weng-Chiang, by David A McIntee.
LOVED this episode, btw! Sooo much to talk about …