The button, Jacob/MIB, Jughead, Losties, Love

This is long, but connects many discussions. Thanks to all. (I had a better one, but then it wanted me to login : ( )

This is based on the following premises (which may not be true, but assumed so here).

Smokie is MIB or his minion. MIB/Jacob are adversaries. Where-not-supposed-to-be-Walt is Smokie.

Walt says “don’t press the button. the button is bad.” Not pressing button is what MIB wants.

When you don’t press the button
-Communication is restored
-Widmore’s people come in w/guns blazing (not ‘the good guys’)
-Electromagnetic anomolie
-Destroys the world
-Anyone got any ideas to add?
These are things MIB wants.

Who wants button pressed are Jacob’s side.
-Mr. Eko. After epiphany decides he needs to do it – then is killed by Smokie.
-Mrs. Hawking. Convinces Des. it’s the only important thing he’ll do.
-Libby. Gives Des the boat that gets him to the island. (Hurley reason not known but impt.)
-Dharma (most)/De Groots. They made the button. (and advertise for those who ‘want to save the world’)
-Daniel. Sent by Mrs. H and went to AA to figure it all out.

As for Dharma, I’m not so sure about Horace (who brought Ben and seemed kinda’ kill crazy) and Radzinski (who designed the Swan and worried about spys – though wanted Sayid dead … of course, if he was he wouldn’t have shot Ben … )

Alpert. Think he manipulates in MIB’s favor, invoking Jacob’s name. [Jacob must be ‘historically’ known to be a great man (who wants to save the world?) to the Others or MIB could just as well be named.] May be double-agent.
-Tested John (turned him down 1st, Jacob?)
-Brought Juliette (who sets off Jughead and causes incident, which MIB wants)
-Lets Daniel try to diffuse and eventually move Jughead (Jacob?)
-Took away Ben’s innocence (told him to be patient – MIB)
-Told Ben it was Jacob, not MIB, in the cabin (to which Horace is tied, too. Also, MIB seemed imprisoned in the cabin; perhaps to hold back his evil ways? Alpert seemed concerned Ben was bringing John to ‘Jacob’. Maybe he didn’t really want him out, either, or coulda’ kicked the dust.)
Note: John seems to be Alpert’s wildcard flip. Maybe he was a ‘sign’ from MIB. I think seeing Jacob die will turn him against MIB.

Ben. Poor Ben. Think he was duped. : ( Brought along the others.

Widmore is interesting ‘cuz he questioned Alpert’s ‘leadership’ in the 50s and has at least a slight alliance w/Hawking/Dharma?

Think it’s interesting Dharma built over Jughead (Jacob protection) and Ben has direct link to Smokie (anyone know whose house he took over? Horace’s, perhaps?)

Now, for the variables – primarily LOVE. I think it ‘fixes’ the MIB plan. Specifically, though Smokie corrupts through love relationships, sacrificial love is more powerful.
-Charlie stopped the jamming for Claire’s love.
-Juliette smashed Jughead out of love.
-John left the island (something he worked hard at never doing) to help his friends.
-Daniel is giving is life for love of Charlotte.
-Michael … Roger …
(MB uses hate, too, think killing of Cooper and even Jacob (by killing Alex).

The rules could be to keep from HATING (established by Jacob. Killing kids def. can spur up hate.)

Love themes to be explored – Jack’s pain. Jin/Sun/(missing kid). Claire/Aaron. Ben/Annie. Rose/Bernard. Adam/Eve. Hurley has some big part (no pun intended). He loves Charlie AND Libby (and just everyone, man).

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13 thoughts on “The button, Jacob/MIB, Jughead, Losties, Love

  1. I’m liking the part about the variables dealing with love. Maybe that’s been the point of the Kate/Jack/Juliet/Sawyer love drama. That we can truly love more than one person – and the varying combination of couples effect the future with a bang, at least in the case of LOST.

    Like Sawyer said, “What I do understand is a man does what he does ’cause he wants something for himself.”

    When it comes down to it – to the core of every character – what do they all want? LOVE!

    Taking what waycurious said one step further about MIB=Hate and Jacob=Love. What’s their motivation? Gotta be love, right?

    I’m convinced now, more than ever, that they are from a future time, and they’ve each lost someone they love and it is the underlying motivation to their actions. Jacob disguises it saying it’s all about “progress” – and MIB has had enough – maybe Jacob caused the death of either a mutual loss of a loved one, or specifically the loss of MIB’s loved one.

    This idea is very TIME MACHINE like – and cliche for science fiction – but I’m gonna let it slide in the case of LOST because I LOVE it so much.

  2. This kind of reminds me of Tas’ “Jacob, the tribe has spoken” breakdown in debates – what did you think of that one?

    I think that the whole LOVE thing is WAY too cheesy for Lost. The shows called LOST for a reason – the themes revolve around people being lost / the need to be found.

    Bear in mind most of our protagonists aren’t really the players – yet. They are pawns that have been selected for a game of chess who (apart from Locke) aren’t even aware of the real game.


    Indeed, it’s called LOST – but the most common thing that all the characters have lost – is in fact, love.

    Aren’t Rose and Bernard the only characters that haven’t lost love? They found it and kept it and cherish it. Hmm. I guess somebody has to have a happy ending in order to contrast the rest.

  4. Love is fleeting. The characters have lost themselves, they don’t know who they ‘are’and that’s much deeper and more profound than being in love. Love can easily be challenged (Jin/Sun, Sawyer/Juilet) and become twisted and fade away. But finding yourself, who you are, what makes you you, a unique, special respectful human is so much stronger and comprehensive and complete than love. If you find yourself you don’t ‘need’ anyone else so you can love more openly (so much of the ‘love’ we’ve been shown on Lost is selfish). It’s when the characters have found themselves, accepted themselves for who they are and respect themselves that their storylines are finished with – Eko, Charlie, Sayid (think he’s pretty much done now).
    To the theory, why does this have to be about love and hate, why the extremes, the moral stances on people being good or bad? Life isn’t black and white and Lost isn’t either. I don’t understand why people have become fixated on Jacob being a lovely, good, benevolent force and therefore MIB being the exact opposite. What have we been shown that says that? I think that up until the final episode many people would have said that there was something ‘not quite right’ with Jacob and his actions or supposed actions, but we see him touch some losties and he has blond hair so he must be a good guy? I can’t think of anything that has been directly attributed to Jacob that is unequivocally good or loving and we haven’t seen MIB do anything other than have a discussion with Jacob, get a bit frustrated and say how much he’s like to kill him. I’ve said that about my sisters (doesn’t make me evil).
    Also, how can the button be that important, it only started in the 80s, was destroyed in 2004 – the story has been going on for much, much longer than that? It may be an aspect of the war but I can’t see how it can determine what sides people are on, especially when so many actions surrounding the button seemed to be done with very little or no knowledge of ay bigger picture.
    The latest promo here is set to Amazing Grace, I think that says so much about where the show is going.

  5. TAS: Totally agree that finding yourself totally outweighs finding love – which is fleeting and replaceable. But it’s undeniable that it is one of the great motivators of life – clearly seen by the actions of the LOST characters. It’s guided the characters through the plot as much as the “chess masters” have guided them around as pawns – often using the pawns love in their plays.

    I don’t really give a crap about Jacob and MIB and who’s good and who’s bad and what’s black and what’s white and blah blah. We don’t know enough about them (but it’s fun to speculate) Life happens in the gray area. Totally agree with that as well.

  6. I agree that we shouldn’t interpret light and dark as good and bad. It may just be two different sides, as in chess. Considering that Jacob and MIB seemed to have rather different philosophies about life, perhaps they are a bit like Yan and Yang, though.

  7. Love – not always in the romantic way. John loves his losties(or maybe island), so he leaves the island to die for them (or maybe it).

    Sacrificial love, a free will choice.

  8. I haven’t really decided who is on the good side/bad side yet… For all I know, MIB may be the good guy, and Jacob may be the bad guy. I honestly don’t think Richard works for MIB. I think Ben was always a faux leader, and that’s why he never got to speak to Jacob. I also think its probable that Ben works more closely w/ the MIB. He obviously knows how to summon the smoke monster, and knows where it resides. He didn’t know this much information about Jacob….

    I can’t wait til February 2nd….

  9. I don’t think John left the island out of love for the losties. They haven’t known each other for that kind of deep love to develop, along with the fact that John was pretty much an outcast. Love for the island maybe. Love has certainly had a role in the show, but I think more to show how misguided we can be, how it can cloud our judgements and how we use ‘love’ as an excuse for our actions. I don’t think that’s what they are ultimately searching for.

  10. Sinster, I don’t think Ben knew where Smokey resides, though. Remember, it was (F)Locke who led Ben to Smokey’s chamber under the temple.

    I definitely agree that Locke seemed quite disconnected from the other losties. He only seemed to connect to some extent with a few of them, particularly the younger ones like Walt, Boone, Claire and Charlie.

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