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A Look at The Usual Suspects

When ‘the losties’ flashed back to 1954 they encounter a 17 year old Charles Widmore and a young Eloise Hawking. It was not made entirely clear at the time who ‘the others’ leader was, but we can rely on the fact that John Locke was directed to speak with Richard Alpert. Given the young ages of Widmore & Eloise in 1954, accompanied with the fact that 50 years have since passed, we can therefore be reasonably certain that there isn’t anyone at present among ‘the others’ currently residing on ‘the island’ in the same age range as Widmore or Hawking who would be aware of ‘the island’ and its history.

This might indicate that Richard was the leader of ‘the others’ in 1954; for what length of time is unknown and eventually Widmore & Hawking took up that role; followed up by Benjamin Linus upon Charles Widmore’s exile from ‘the island’.

Given this situation, we can also be assured that Richard would have been the only person who informed ‘the others’ about Jacob, his beliefs, ‘the island’, etc., as it appears that nobody had direct access to Jacob except him. Richard Alpert has been on ‘the island’ longer than any of ‘the others’. It is logical to presume that it was Richard Alpert who has shared this knowledge throughout his time on ‘the island’.

After Nemesis leaves the statue having killed Ilana’s men, he makes the following statement to ‘the others’. “I’m very disappointed in all of you”. You might recall that it was Nemesis who insisted that ‘the others’ accompany them to the statue. Nemesis makes the following statement: “Hello, everyone. My name is John Locke. I’ve been told that… for some time, you all have been accepting orders from a man named Jacob. And yet, oddly enough, it seems that no one has actually seen him. Now I’m sure there are very good reasons why his existence and whereabouts are secret. I just don’t know what they are. And to be honest with all of you, if there’s a man telling us what to do, I want to know who he is”.

I believe at this point, Nemesis is illustrating a point. He is upset with ‘the others’ because they have followed Jacob blindly, solely based upon the word of Richard Alpert. Even when Ben questions Jacob before killing him about all of ‘the notes’ and following his orders unquestioned, that he received via Richard; Jacob shows him nothing but contempt in his response.

If that weren’t enough to start questioning the motives of ‘the others’, we have to look into the words, actions and deeds of Dogen and Lennon. When ‘the losties’ first arrive at the Temple, and Hurley demands to know what the note inside of the ankh says, Dogen tells them in reference to Sayid, that “the paper said that if your friend there dies, we’re all in a lot of trouble.”

However, Dogen doesn’t appear to make much of an effort to save Sayid and shows little concern upon learning of his death, nor the inference supposedly made by Jacob regarding what would happen if Sayid were to die according to the paper. Eventually when Sayid breathes life again, it is Dogen who tries to kill him because Sayid has supposedly been possessed by an ‘infection’ that would eventually turn his heart to darkness. He tells Jack that Sayid has been ‘claimed’, just as Claire had been.

The only time we have actually witnessed anyone coming close to laying ‘claim’ to ‘the losties’ has been when Jacob meets up with each of them and touches them in some manner. It is unclear at this time, that if it were Nemesis, how he would lay ‘claim’ to any of them; but perhaps this is something that will be made clear in future. As usual, with ‘the others’ ‘the words and the music’ don’t go together. At this point we should be very suspicious of their motives, actions and degree of sincerity.

In addition, the only time that we see Dogen take any immediate action or show any concern whatsoever is when Hurley informs him that Jacob is dead. The Temple quickly turns into chaos and they hurry to protect themselves from what obviously appears to be the anticipated arrival of Nemesis or ‘the smoke monster’.
We must also consider Claire and Christian, their roles and status. Prior to Christian leading Claire out of the woods, ever ‘intuitive’ Miles can’t stop staring at and observing her. He has the same intent look on his face when he is observing Sayid in the Temple. Perhaps, Miles is observing behaviour that might fall under the wide umbrella of ‘Noetic Sciences’ with each of them. Christian exact status still remains a mystery.
Locke, in addition to others have conversed with or seen Christian and Claire, and it would appear that Jin is about to make his own acquaintance with Claire. Regardless of Christian and Claire’s status they do not appear to be following ‘the others’ and/or Jacob, in light of Dogen’s statements regarding Claire. We have yet to learn if they are following Nemesis or some other unknown or unseen force.

What we do know for certain is, that Richard Alpert, the longest ‘living’ resident on ‘the island’ knows the history between Jacob and Nemesis above anyone else. He not only has ‘history’ with them, he also has the power and the ability to say whatever he likes about either of them to ‘the others’, albeit under the direction and expressed interest of Jacob, so far as we know. Not one of ‘the others’ has ever met Jacob or Nemesis, and are only aware of the information that has been imparted to them by way of Richard’s words. Perhaps, this is the point Nemesis was trying to illustrate and why he is so disappointed. We could also consider that Nemesis is ‘manipulating’ them in order to gain their favour and fight for his side.

Perhaps, Richard hasn’t been exactly forthright in his dealings with ‘the others’. The only ‘players’ who would know if this were true or not, are Jacob and Nemesis themselves. Presently, it would appear that aside of being disappointed with ‘the others’ Nemesis also appears to be very angry with Richard. You have to wonder the reason for his anger. We only know that Nemesis wants to go home. Did Richard play some part in preventing Nemesis from going home and/or something far more egregious?

As Apache mentions in his/her theory ‘Dominoes’, sides are being chosen up and people from both sides are being recruited and/or choosing sides for specific reasons. Friends who were once aligned together in friendship will be divided and perhaps fight against one another on opposing sides.

Richard Alpert, ‘the man of mystery’ has become one of the ‘leading’ suspects in this mystery. He is the man that should be kept a very watchful ‘eye’ upon.

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dabiatchishere

~ Contrary to popular misconception, karma has nothing to do with punishment and reward. It exists as part of our holographic universe’s binary or dualistic operating system only to teach us responsibility for our creations—and all things we experience are our creations. ~

75 thoughts on “A Look at The Usual Suspects

  1. Good point, one thing that i thought of, is Mib and Flocke the same person? i remembered when you said that Flocke told Richard to take him to Jacob but wasnt Jacob and Mib sitting right outside Jabobs hideout when Mib said he wanted to kill him?
    My point being if Flocke is Mib he would know where Jacob resides wouldnt he?

  2. Hi eluwan, I refer to MIB, Flocke, Fake Locke as Nemesis.

    You bring up a valid point. I think we are meant to presume that the statue may not have always been Jacob’s home.

    It is debated as to whether Jacob once resided in the Cabin at one time. Prior to that, is unknown. I think Nemesis may not have known Jacob’s current whereabouts, is all. Or, he did and it was just a ruse he employed with Richard and Ben. I’m not sure.

    Thanks for your comment.

  3. yes i think the reason we know little about Richard is because he holds probally a lot of the answers to the great big puzzle that is Lost.

    I have as of recent weeks started to believe nemesis isnt the savage evil beast we think he is. Your right The others under the leadership of Jacob Have done some awful things “The purge” kidnapping claire and Aaron, just a flat out willingness to shoot anybody, and all this under the ruling of a presumed White sided compassionate Jacob??

  4. Hi Jenius, Richard is the only person who ‘knows all’ regarding ‘the island’, Jacob and Nemesis.

    What troubles me is, without knowing more about Richard and his background is, that he may have been lying about everything, and who would know it.

    I agree with you on Nemesis. I am of the belief that we don’t have the full story on him and should reserve our judgment until we do know more.

    Thanks for your input and comment.

  5. “I am very disappointed in all of you”.

    That line bothers me soooooo much.

    What is he disappointed about? What would make a monster disappointed in people? Where is home?

    Dabs, these are some great questions that need anwering here. Great post getting back to the heart and soul of Losts mysteries.

    I think the relevance is a very important element to questions that will truly explain the show.

    I was thinking about the water and the “clear” comment that was made regarding it.
    We saw someone put his hand in it and it NOT heal a cut. Maybe it doesnt heal anything. Maybe it is to clean the infection so one doesnt become claimed…

    When Sayid is tested, Lennon says Sayid is fine…then asks Dogen, “I just lied, didnt I?”

    Then they proceed to try and get Jack to give Sayid the pill “willingly”…it always comes back to “free will” doesnt it?

    Jack refuses, popping the pill himself, then is told after it is forced up, that it it poison.

    Im starting to wonder if the others were actually ever trying to save Sayid?

    They said if he dies, then they are all in trouble.

    I believe that his death would be one that would allow the monster to “claim” him.

    So they take him to the temple, and try to give him a “clean” death…but the water is dirty because Jacob is dead…something has changed and the infection has begun. Sayid cannot simply die in that manner now. He is now “claimed” by whatever possesses and giives the monster its abilities and powers.

    They want Sayid to take the pill, because it contains the very same ingrediants that are used in the “ash” to keep the monster away. They want to poison and kill Sayid in a “religious/mythological” manner, to keep the monster from being capable of infecting/possessing him after his death…which is why they would be in trouble if he died.

    What is the purpose of the temple and the others…to stop the monster from getting home. Where home is…well…that will more than likely answer the most important question of all…what the hell is going on?

    Great post Dabsi. I really think this is what need addressed right now. It is only a matter of time before we start learning mre answers.
    I think you are correct to question the others motives. Im starting to wonder if they are all just power hungry people or the islands true protectors.

    I know I have more to add…there is a lot to think about here…

  6. I have doubts about Richard lying. I think it is possible that he is as LOST as everyone else…maybe just for a much longer time, lol…

    I dont know why, but I wonder myself how long it has been since he had any contact with Jacob…it doesnt seem as if they have been communicating very much.

    I cant help but believe that MIB may have used certain ‘forms’ to fool Richard into misunderstanding…good points raised…

  7. Sorry, I got a little off topic there. Im trying to figure water and Jacob into the equation with what happened to Sayid.

    I think it plays a big part in what the others intent is.

  8. Some great thoughts AES! I was unable to put together the meaning of the water, but feel you are on the right track with your ideas of a ‘clean’ death.

    It makes me wonder if the water being murky is what actually prevented this from occurring. An excellent thought! I then have to wonder if the process of Sayid reviving himself if this is what Nemesis requires. A ‘living’ sort of soldier.

    Man, did you hit the ‘nail on the head’ with Sayid taking the pill ‘willingly’. I totally missed that! You are correct. So, I guess it is safe to say that Sayid’s exercise of ‘free will’ was influenced by Jack’s words. Now, that is interesting! hmm

    I really hoped this would get ‘the juices’ flowing, because I have been stymied since the last episode, my mind going back and forth.

    I will read your further comments. Great input!

  9. Hi AES, you raise an interesting and valid point about Richard possibly being manipulated and lied to as well by Nemesis.

    I do believe that Richard was deathly afraid at who walked out of that statue! lol That persuades me that Richard has done something towards Nemesis that he is going to be paid back for.

    As far as I am concerned, it appears that ‘the others’ are on a ‘need to know’ basis and don’t appear to be very organized.

    As for ‘where is the home’, of Nemesis I wonder if The Temple may have once been his home, and like Widmore was exiled.

    I see some parallels between Ben and Widmore and that exile. Despite Widmore’s obvious wealth and power, he has been trying to get home to ‘the island’ for many years, after being exiled.

    Is this true of what happened between Nemesis and Jacob?

    As for Sayid and what has occurred, I agree it will play a big part. Sayid is likened to a ‘natural born killer’. Not a man you’d like to see at the end of a gun pointed in your face.

    Thanks for providing me with some further insights!

    I will send you some information on the water issues for you to take a look at and assess.

  10. Sorry…one other off topic thought…
    There is someting else from that episode that I cannot ignore or allow to be ignored any longer.

    After they say Sayid is dead…they pull him from the water and he is laying on his back.
    And who else, other than the miracle man himself is th last to touch Sayid before his awakening. Jack frantically performs CPR on Sayid…just as he did to Charlie…just as he did to Rose.

    All the talk of Jack being able to perform miracles with healing, and nothing about this.
    Is it related to him having to give Sayid the pill…or is he simply the most convincing.

    If nothing else its something that is repetitious thorught Lost, something many writers do to implement a subtle clue…and cannot be ignored.

  11. AES, that is a brilliant note on Jack and I was thinking that there was a reason about Jack influencing Sayid’s decision regarding taking the pill.

    You are correct about the symbolism being present with Jack and his ‘healing’ abilities and that people are healed after he has touched them.

    That brings me to this next point. If Jack’s touch heals, does his touch also ‘claim’….or has somebody else have that ability to ‘claim’, that we are not aware of.

    I’ll have to really think that through.

    Excellent catch on Jack!

  12. I agree with you on Widmores similar situation.

    I think that there is a very strong possibility that Charles was influenced by MIB/smokey/whatever it is.

    His willingness to get Locke back to the island, but not return with him leaves me puzzled…really? You are not even going to try after all these years?

    He HAS to know more than what he is saying. He has to be in with either Jacob or MIB, and his and Bens argument about Baby Alexs fate leads me to believe that he is angry at Jacob…even if Ben was making it up.

    As you say, I doubt anyone but richard has ever actually talked directly to either of them…but feel that Widmore may have made a deal with the devil without fully realizing.

    Either way, his insight to the war leaves us knowing that he knows more than we thought, and that he knows that John is supposed to be there.
    But does he mean the REAL John…or the John Flocke…?
    That should help establish his side.

    Great thoughts again on all of this!!!

  13. Dabs- as always you’ve done an excellent job! The more I think about this show the more I realize nothing is certain. I’ve thought Jacob was good and MIB evil but as you point out it could certainly be argued that Jacob is evil. His mannerisms certainly make him appear to be gentle and caring but as we’ve seen, nothing is usually as it seems on this show!

    One thing AES mentioned about the dirty water not being able to clean Sayid doesn’t make sense. Jacob was the reason they put Sayid in the water to start with and he knows he’s dead! (He even told Hurley that he died an hour before he instructs him to bring Sayid to the Temple). So if his death meant the water wouldn’t work why would he instruct Hurley to bring him there? I think Jacob is the infection that Dogan fears. This plays into the Bible simile in the way Thomas didn’t recognize Jesus when he first appeared to him after his death.

  14. Jukin, when it comes to Lost you know that nothing is actually certain until it fully plays out.

    From the moment we were introduced to Jacob and Nemesis on the beach, I had my reservations. This grew when we see Jacob touch each one of ‘the losties’.

    What we may all be missing is, that these two both have elements of goodness and elements which can be construed otherwise. I suspect we will be left guessing about this until the very end of the show. Personally, I see both in each of them.

    You make a valid point about Dogan and the ‘Thomas’ reference from the bible. I do believe that in Sayid’s case, that he may serve a better purpose for Nemesis.

    There was definitely something occurring with the water in the Temple that shouldn’t have taken place under normal circumstances.

    I have to rely on Dogen’s words regarding Sayid and his death. Something was amiss.

    Thanks for your input and comment Jukin!

  15. Good points Jukin.

    But I think Jacob had Sayid sent there because he knew that the infection would eventually get him, and that the last place he should be is running about on the island.

    The others know Jacob is dead, but they dont know what the impact will be on the water, for he has always been alive.

    By jacob having Sayid taken there, to what I believe is his people, will allow them to be in control of what happens to Sayid as much as possible.

    Jacob died, water turned dirty, doesnt work, now they have to kill Sayid with the poison before the infection spreads…if they are actually trying to kill him at this point.

    Again, good points. Jacob may be the infection in the long run, but it wouldnt make sense to relate Sayid to Claires sitation then…

  16. I have to say that Jacob or Richard or whoever appoints the leader has some strange preferences. Widmore, Hawking, Ben and Locke? None of them seem to have much in common with Jacob or Richard.

  17. AES, I think what you say as to why the water turns ‘murky’ as a result of Jacob’s death has the ring of truth to it.

    I initially had thought of this, but dismissed the idea as being too simplistic. However, as you have explained it and how the ‘infection’ would spread makes for good logic!

  18. AES in regards to Claire’s situation I think Dogan is mistaken in thinking that the infection in Sayid is the same as whatever happened to Claire. I also think that if Sayid is actually infected by something Jacob wants contained he would have sent him to a place like the cabin and told Hurley to place the ash around it and not allow Sayid to leave. The last thing he would do is allow an enemy “behind the lines” by having Sayid fighting his men inside the Temple while MIB is fighting them outside and trying to get in. Nothing like having “a man on the boat” as it were!

  19. ilie, this is also a good point. We certainly have seen the obvious ‘flaws’ of ‘the others’ and their leaders. This includes the other members of their clan.

    Somehow, I feel when the ‘big picture’ is revealed, we will understand why these apparently mismatched group of people come together.

    Also, Richard has appeared to be the soft-spoken, laid back Adviser to ‘the others’. Perhaps there is more to him than meets the eye!

    Thanks for your input and comment!

  20. I just find it hard to believe that Sayid and Claires situation will be different. It doesnt make sense to say that, than have him be wrong.

    I dont think that it is the others who imprison anyone in the cabin or anywhere else.

    I believe that the people we see infected are quite different than what was in that cabin.
    Danielle killed members of her crew that became infected, they can die once infected.

    I am still unsure that they are actually trying to kill Sayid with the poison. I believe that the poison may be for the infection alone, and Sayid may or may not survive, hence the others telling Jack that there may be consequences for what they do to Sayid when they first arrive.

    The thought of Sayid and Jack having to take /give the pill by choice is very important to me in terms of what can and will happen during its ingestion.

    Someone may have to believe it will help them…they may need to “fight” off the infection itself.

    Good points again Jukin.

  21. Once again you make great points AES! Especially in terms of ‘choice’ involved with Sayid taking the pill. Thanks again for the nice pick-up on that!

    One thing that we can stand behind in terms of confirming Claire’s situation and Sayid’s is by Miles’ reaction to both of them when he sees them ‘turning’ (so to speak). Miles has the exact same reaction to both of them. It appeared that he had difficulty reading them, because they were in some sort of in-between state.

    That alone tells me, that they are in the ‘same’ category.

  22. I think Richard Alpert and Flocke are both the smoke monster.

    Notice Richard’s panic when Ilanna held up her gun and pointed it at Flocke…he told her not to shoot and looked really panicked…Why? He obviously knows that isn’t the real John Locke…the only way to get both out of that situation intact was for Richard to order the Others not to shoot Flocke, and for Flocke to knock him out and carry him away!

  23. “Des is the Man”, if both Richard and Flocke are the smoke monster, what do you imagine would happen if Ilana fired the gun at Flocke? We already know that Flocke can take bullets.

  24. Hi Des is the Man, good thought with good logic behind it. I have considered that possibility. It was presented in a large theory last summer. Many people liked the idea very much.

    During that debate the idea didn’t hold up that well when considering all of the events from the past.

    I do think there is much more to Richard…..

    Thanks for your comment and input!

  25. Yes yes…I think Richards story will be informative, but I have to agree that he is separate from MIB.

    I brought up the “Good to see you out of those chains” comment, because I believe that it is where we are to understand that Richard is out of the loop…sorry…bad joke, but you get the point.

    Richard was suprised, genuinely. I often wonder if there was any chance that he was at one point “infected”…and healed, possibly contributing to his immortality.

  26. Hi AES, yes indeed…that is exactly what I have been thinking. Was Richard ‘claimed’ and he was later healed and that resulted him becoming immortal.

    I think it’s an excellent consideration…Maybe that is why Nemesis is so angry. Perhaps, the ‘big fish’ got away, or Richard betrayed him….hmm

  27. I like the betrayal…a lot.

    Im trying to wrap my head around why Richard was made this way by Jacob…was it to actually benefit himself…or to counter something MIBdid to him…hmm indeed…

  28. Hi AES, I think it could be either…but given the level of anger shown to him by Nemesis, I am leaning toward ultimate betrayal, which may or may not include Jacob.

    I like your idea on ‘countering’ too.

    I am just feeling that we have been misdirected about Richard and his soft-spoken image. He is a smooth-talker as we’ve seen with Ben, Locke, Juliette, the DI, etc. He has lied to people, so I think a healthy amount of skepticism regarding him is required at this point.

  29. I could see it play out that way.

    I still think the scariest scene in the show has nothing to do with the monster, Jacob, or even death…its that scene when Ben is a kid and runs into Alpert in the jungle…

    I dont know what it is, but Richard is just a creepy bastard in that particular scene.

  30. Hi AES, I think you depicted that very accurately. What has always troubled me is, Richard appeared to Ben in ‘time period’ clothing.

    When we see Richard in 1954, he is attired appropriately, as he is throughout the ‘flashes’ to the 70’s etc.

    I am wondering if the ‘creepy’ Richard we saw in this episode…..was Nemesis/Smoke Monster and not Richard. Something is and was very off-putting about that scene.

  31. hmmm….that wheel has not ever turned for me before…again though…like Christian appearing to Sun and Frank…why that particular form?

    Wait…I think it was actually Richard…maybe this explains why he knew “Is that Bejamin Linus” when Kate and Sawyer took injured Ben there…

    Maybe it has something to do with how BlackRock got to the middle of the island…is it possible that there is a flash that we are unaware of, moving possibly Richard through time, as we saw Locke, Sawyer, Miles, Juliet, and Dan in season 5?

    Maybe he was given misdirected orders from Smokie/MIB, due to intentions of using Ben to kill Jacob directly in the end.

    I still think Richard is the big gamepiece.

    Remember the scene with him helping Locke, removing the bullet, and disappearing after telling Locke he had to die?

    This made Richard look like a psychic god, only later to learn he didnt have a clue.

    I cant help but feel that Richard is being used…I dont trust the others in a different manner, but Richard seems to be the “front line general”, with a belief that he is protected from all but MIB.

    Right or wrong, that scene with Locke makes me believe that he is possibly more clueless than us on certain matters…but that doesnt mean he is playing for the right team…

    This is a good topic…makes my head hurt…

  32. LOL AES….as I was reading your comment, I was saying yes, yes, yes…..

    I think what you say makes very good sense. It does make you wonder then how far back this actually does go in terms of ‘time’ and how long this plan has been in the works.

    I think it also does say something in terms of ‘destiny’ in addition.

    Richard may very well have been sent and not have known why, as was the case when Nemesis sent him over to attend Locke’s wound. Very plausible idea. That is something that I am going to give proper consideration to.

    Now my head hurts….

  33. Its so hard to believe Richard is ignorant to anything…thats why I think it could work.

    There are only so many ways we could be fooled, and I think Richards performance with Locke was a great way to throw us through a loop.

    Im not completely against your original thought that Richard is conning us, but that particular scene makes me look differently.

    I loved the look of fear in Richards eyes…if the “immortal” man is afraid…I imagine everyone else should be too.

  34. Hi AES, well given what you had stated about Richard and his palpable fear, it made me wonder how an ‘immortal’ could not have known that Fake Locke was Nemesis.

    You ‘fried my noodle’….lol

    Your idea would cover this off nicely….Richard is also the result of manipulation on somebodies behalf. It just makes so much sense.

    The one frustrating part about Lost is, when you finally think you know something, you have to go back to the drawing boards in order to see it with ‘new’ perspective.

    I am so happy you made mention of this. I have always stated that the ‘discussion’ is the most valuable part of a theory.

    Thanks…

  35. Just on another side note about Jack being the last to touch Sayid, when sayid is awake he does “thank” jack for saving his life. I know Jack clears it up that he didnt save his life and Sayid doesnt look at all shocked or anything to be told they saved his life, he just replies something about it doesnt matter its about who i trust.

  36. Jenius, that is an excellent point that you make. Jack does say this and it is a very good point.

    I recall the conversation that Ben has with Sayid about trust. I can’t recall exactly, but it has something to do with Sayid trusting and that it hadn’t been working out for him so far…

    So yes indeed, an excellent connection again with the ‘mirroring’ aspects.

    Thanks, Jenius

  37. So much too consider here Dabs. Initially what springs into my mind is that scene where Locker’s father tries to point out to John that John is being conned. At the first viewing of that seen it is logical to assume that Locke’s father is decreeing to just Benefits. But now you’ve got me wondering, since Locke’s father was such a good con man could he have noticed Richard’s con of the others?

  38. Hi Achalli, you had to bring up the one scene that I took a lot of flack for at the time of the episode.

    It completely appeared to me that Cooper was ‘playing a con’ and I wonder what the conversation was between him Richard and Ben. He seemed so relaxed…that it just didn’t fit.

    Maybe Cooper was taking his cues from Richard and playing along with what he thought was a ‘con’, not knowing the real reason why he was actually on ‘the island’.

    Whatever the case is, his purpose was to ’emphasize’ ‘the con’ and make Locke aware of it. Hope that will come full circle in some respect.

    Good thoughts.

  39. Doesn’t Richard say to Nemesis ” I’m the way I am because of Jacob?” In Lost tradtion that’s a very ambiguous statement which could mean a variety of things.
    I still think Richard helped Jacob imprison/ seperate Nemesis. When Richard realizes who is really dealing with he does looksdeathly afraid, If Nemesis helped Richard get out of his chains that would be a double betrayal. Also Richard knows some things as he tells everyone not to shoot Flocke cuz he knows what will happen. Flocke taking him away takes away the one person that can give everyone some answers.

  40. Hi Roland, yes Richard did make that ambiguous statement, which leads me to believe that what you say is a very likely scenario. It also serves as a reminder that Richard was in servitude to Jacob, if this is true.

    And, you are right. If Nemesis did help Richard, he was doubly betrayed. I do believe that unlike Jacob, Nemesis is willing to impart some information. How self-serving that is, we don’t know, but I can’t wait to hear what it is.

    Richard clearly knows why Nemesis should not be killed and I think it goes far beyond normal fear. He seemed to be more afraid of Nemesis being killed, than not.

    And, the mystery deepens! I can’t wait for the Richard episode.

    Awesome observations!

  41. Dabs, that one scene has always stood out to me. IMO it’s always been one of the most pivotal scenes in Lost. That’s where I started to have doubt about Locke’s specialness.

  42. Hi Achalli, I have to believe that what you say is true. The whole scene was so contrived.

    Locke was on top of the world, and the whole time he was being ‘played’. How sad was that….

    On another note, the comparisons with Locke in the timeline off of ‘the island’ to his on island naivety is noticeable. He no longer sees himself as ‘the hunter’. The fact that he no longer identifies himself with losing his set of knives, sets the contrast.

    He appears to be much wiser in dispensing his wisdom to Jack.

  43. Dabs great subjects. One of my big questions you remind me of with this post is where did Widmore come from? And how did he get on Island? Can’t wait to get the scoop on Richard. Lots have been waiting years for those answers. I’m confident we will get them. Right now I think he came in on Black Rock as a slave. Though he could be a re-incarnation of someone before the Richard we see in front of us.

    I don’t know if this has been mentioned, But anyone find it interesting that Dogen didn’t find out Jacob was dead till after Sayid’s body was put in the pool and before they could get the Ash around the Temple. I wonder if there was something that could have been done had Dogen known that Jacob was dead before. Maybe put the ash up first then put Sayid in. And what did that note say? I’m thinking just a list of names and nothing else.

  44. Hi loop, I think you could be right about Richard either coming in on the Black Rock or, he is a reincarnate from an earlier time period.

    Actually, this might explain the difference in Richard’s appearance.

    As for Widmore, I find the comparisons between his situation with Ben and Jacob’s situation with Nemesis, eerily ‘mirrored’.

    No doubt in my mind, that Widmore plays a huge role!

    Like you, I feel we will get those answers.

    I was also struck buy the fact, that Dogen knew nothing of Jacob’s death. Why wouldn’t Jacob have gone to the Temple himself, instead of sending Hurley? I find that telling.

    Thanks for your input and reminding me that Jacob didn’t need Hurley, or did he?

  45. Hi Achalli, I am inclined to believe that Locke’s apparent new found wisdom comes from the Walkabout.

    Something ‘huge’ must have changed in his life in the timeline from #815 landing.

  46. Hey Guys, I would like to thank everyone who has commented thus far. It has really helped me to gain a much better understanding of what is going on with the ‘big’ picture.

    After last weeks episode, I was convinced that everything I thought I knew was being placed into question.

    Thanks for everyone’s insights and ideas. No doubt, after tomorrow nights episode, I’ll be questioning everything again.

    Frustrating and elating all at the same time!

  47. Hey Dabs, nice post and comment discussion.

    I made it about halfway through the comments and had to interrupt my reading to comment about the water, Sayid, Jack, Jacob…

    Up in the early discussion about Jacob telling Hurley to have Sayid taken to the Temple, and some of AES’ points about who/what/how Sayid is claimed… very good stuff to consider.

    One of my thoughts has been that if Jack is involved in Sayid’s being ‘healed’ we can’t rule out that this is exactly how Jacob could have foreseen it transpiring. If free will is as big of a part of the battle (and rules) between Nemesis and Jacob as it seems, then it makes the trust issues (and the blatant conversations about trust) that much more significant. It’s also very possible that Dogen knows what Jack’s role COULD become, which makes all the conversation about the Others’ motives very interesting because Jack doesn’t necessarily ‘conform’ easily.

    There is a lot to discuss here (obviously) and more than anything I hope Richard isn’t knocked out for much longer!

  48. Hey kimberly, very good insights regarding Jack! It would be remiss not to make mention of him.

    You are correct about the ‘free will’ Jack exercises. Recall when Ben brought Jack to operate on his tumour? He tells Jack that he wants Jack to want to help him. I think this is significant, and illustrates your point very well. Jack has transformed.

    You also make a very good point about Jacob ‘setting’ things in motion, and there is a part of me that truly believes that Dogen is attempting to ‘spirit’ Jack along. As you say, in attempts to prepare Jack for a much larger purpose.

    I think I am making that connection now. Jack is definitely being ‘groomed’.

    You are correct about the ‘trust’ issues. I think this is something that all of the characters have struggled with for one reason or the other. It also seems that these issues are being overcome.

    Perhaps, this will serve a ‘higher’ purpose eventually.

    I am also hoping that we see what happens with Richard in Nemesis’ hold. If the look on his face is anything like last week, it should be a very good moment in television.

    Thanks for your great insights on Jack, in addition to your comment.

  49. Wow, I usually read through about 4-5 theories a night, but so far I’ve only made it through this one and all the comments!

    Great stuff Dabs; i completely agree with you on your interpretation of MIB’s statement “I am so dissapointed…”. He is dissapointed for them taking Jacob’s orders/words blindly.. You can take that point even further; what if the Other’s questioned Jacob’s Orders even earlier? Maybe 25-50 years earlier? Then MIB might have easily manipulated/convinced the earlier leader to get Richard to bring him to Jacob and kill him then. It was only because the Other’s blindly followed Jacob, that MIB had to find somebody such as Locke, who he could kill then mimic in order to trick Richard to bring him to murder Jacob (well technically have Ben kill him)..The point is, it needed to be such a big plan simply because the Others trusted Jacob so much.

    The other point you brought up about Richard Alpert, having more knowledge than anybody else on the Island concerning Jacob-Nemesis. That is true that he holds the most knowledge, but as far as how to lead I tend to believe Richard is almost as clueless as all the other others; actually he reminds me alot of John Locke himself!
    Just like Locke, he’s always looking for “a sign..”. I believe he saved Ben’s life just because he knew Ben was special because Ben saw a vision of his Mom! But there is one major difference between Richard and Locke; Richard was made immortal by Jacob, and he could always look to that as proof enough that Jacob knows what he’s doing..I guess somebody could argue Locke also experienced a miracle by being healed from paralyis, but he really couldn’t attribute that to Jacob himself; just “the island”..

  50. It could be that the pool in the temple allows for a clean death as has been stated. It seems to me that Flocke can animate any dead people on the Island ie Christian, Yemi, Locke. Maybe, the water in the Temple prevents this. Remember that Richard specifically went to the Dharma Initiative to ask for the bodies of some fallen Others. Maybe this is so they can be taken to the Temple.

    I find the fact that they were ‘claimed’ to be an interesting comment. I am not sure that it is the pool per se that can result in an individual being claimed. I suspect that if an individual is near death, then Flocke/MIB has some ability to ‘claim’ that individual. If that person then survives, then they are permanently tarnished (claimed) by Flocke. Consider how Ben’s personality seemed to change after being ‘saved’. Consider how Miles looks at Claire/Sayid – as if something is not quite right. They were all polluted by Flocke simply because they were near death, not because of some magic pool.

  51. very interesting read Dabi, it sheds some light on some of the craziness occuring.

    I gotta agree about Richard, the man of mystery, what are his motives? Is he doing Jacobs bidding, or does he have his own agenda?

    I cannot wait to find out more about Richards story, as i think it will answer alot of questions about Jacob, MIB, the island, the others, why everyone is there, the list goes on.

    I have a feeling that Richard might be the person whos been there the longest (apart from Jacob and MIB) and maybe the only survivor from the first group of people who ‘arrived’ on the island, and then became a ‘recruiter’ for Jacob, although now knowing that Jacob was able to nudge people in the right direction himself, maybe Richard is/was up to something else.

    i get it now, Richard IS kaiser soze!

  52. bobt, I think you are right about Richard and ‘the others’ and how far back any deceptions might have occurred.

    We see Jacob & Nemesis on the beach watching The Black Rock coming towards ‘the island’, and Nemesis tells Jacob at that time, how badly he wants to kill him. I think we can safely assume that Nemesis has been working his plan for a very long time.

    I agree with your take on Richard showing similar attributes to Locke in the sense that he always appears to be ‘looking for a sign’. You’d think that Richard would have far more insights than that. However, maybe that didn’t come with the deal of immortality. Perhaps, that is part of Richard’s problem, in that he like every other mortal person, has to struggle for meaning.

    Great insights! Thanks for your comment!

  53. brothergib, I love your take on the ‘water’ in the Temple and why Ben was taken there, in addition to the dead bodies Richard wanted returned back in the 70’s. Very nice idea, and I think you are correct.

    As a child Ben seemed rather sweet…when we see him later in life, he has undergone some dramatic changes in his character and overall make-up.

    What you say makes so much sense about when a person is near death and the reason they are taken to the Temple.

    I love your thoughts on this!

    Thanks for your insights and comment!

  54. shephards_flocke, I am inclined to agree with you about Richard and how long he has been on ‘the island’.

    I am really beginning to see that there is far more to Richard to be discovered.

    I think it is wise to reserve judgment on him, because he may very well be working on an entirely different agenda.

    I always felt that there is one more ‘piece’ or person that we are still unaware of that fits into this puzzle. I believe that will be held back from us towards the end of the show.

    Somebody is definitely ‘Kaiser’….I’m just not sure which one of them it is….just like in the movie.

    Thanks for your thoughts and comment!

  55. wasn’t there a scene where sawyer was drifting near death and kate was taking care of him and it was as if somebody else from kate’s past was speaking through him? just trying to recall because that seemed to be an instance of near-claiming. also, i think richard didn’t want people to shoot at flocke because he was aware of the potential futility of it and the ensuing death storm that it could unleash.

  56. whataboutme, thanks for bringing up and reminding me about Sawyer. I had forgotten about that scene in the Swan Station.

    Sawyer was close to death and he was acting quite strangely when he is speaking to Kate. I am certain that it has relevance.

    I agree that on the surface it appears that Richard’s obvious motives would be to prevent ‘all hell’ from breaking loose, but I feel that is likely something much deeper also.

    It was mentioned in one of the above comments about Richard ‘needing’ Nemesis in tact because of the knowledge he possesses, etc.

    I feel that both aspects are true….because they make sense.

    Thanks for your comment and thoughts!

  57. Richard has definitely been there a lot longer than most, I think it’s safe to say he came on the black rock at this point. I still believe he is somehow from the future and that is why he remains to look the same age, flashing in and out of time the same way the losties were.

    I like the theory, I don’t think Jacob is a good guy either. I doubt there is a clear cut good and bad in all this hoockey poockey. Two men playing a game is all I can be sure of – one being Jacob the other MIB.

    I like the new Focke. What depth in character Terry has displayed in his acting. He deserves some awards.

    I’m disappointed in all of you! and the way he delivers it like he really is.

  58. Hi username, I couldn’t agree more on the superb acting abilities of O’Quinn…He is just phenomenal in this new role as Nemesis.

    The writers joked so many times about they are all Zombies. They even gave that line to Hurley, which was too funny.

    I agree with your take on Richard. He is either from the Black Rock, or there is another twist coming in the show.

    As for Jacob, I think there is much more than meets the eye with him, and I will also say the same thing for Nemesis. If that is the one huge ‘play’ on viewers, I think it will be in determining how good or how evil each one of them actually are!

    I’m counting on the writers to really ‘mess’ with our heads on that front.

    Thanks for your input and comments!

  59. Since we are on the topic of Richard here i wanted to maybe get some clarification, i was reading through another theory earlier, and someone mentioned how Richard appeared to Ben as scruffy when Ben was a child, then i got to thinking about the timelines, At the time it just appears hes scruffy then over the years gets more clean cut BUT, then im recalling when John goes to see him when Widmore is younger Richard is clean cut, which would have been before Richard visits ben as a child all scruffy, then shortly after that time (going by child Ben) when Kate and Sawyer take him to Richard, He is clean cut again. Am i making sense?

    Is it a production error that Richard is sooo scruffy and native at that time, but in other scenes so clean cut, even ones that point to previous meeting with Ben as a child.

    Please correct me if ive screwed up my timelines somewhere there, and thankyou to the Theory writer of the Velenezzi(sp) theory for making it apparent to me.

  60. Hi Jenius, this was brought up in the discussion above between AES and myself in a couple of the comments.

    You are correct about Richard being clean cut in 1954 and throughout any other time period on ‘the island’. The only time we see Richard appearing in clothing which appears to be from another time period and looking dishevelled is, when young Ben Linus meets him in the woods after his dead mother appears to him.

    The discussion which took place is in Comments #31 & 32.

    The speculation is, that the ‘smoke monster’ may have been using Richard’s likeness to trick young Ben, and eventually bring him in as one of ‘the others’.

    It doesn’t appear that this would be a continuity error.

    Hope that is helpful.

  61. I thought i might have missed it, a lot of comments on this one lol I CANNOT wait until tonight to watch next episode, hopefully an answer or two, or just another million questions lol

  62. Jenius, thankfully the comments are numbered so it wasn’t too hard to find. lol

    I’m sure some answers will come and I’m sure there will also be many more questions.

    I think we are all looking forward to tonight’s episode to see what everybody is up to.

  63. wow this post is a good one and is getting long.. Dabs you do a great job responding to everybody..

    I wanted to bring up a scene that really helped me form my view of Richard’s position on the island. Remember in Jughead, when Daniel was questioning him about the shooting of all the US soldiers?..Richard responded (paraphrasing) “Everyone has someone to answer to. Do you answer to somebody?!” I think that scene revealed several things; 1. Richard was not in charge 2. The person he answers to wasn’t among the Others, because Richard was the only one everybody reported to 3. How he struggled with that statement, it seemed like he questioned the need for the killings to happen..

    When Jacob and MIB were revealed at the end of Season 5, I started thinking..maybe the person giving those orders was MIB, even though Richard might have been thinking it was from Jacob..

    I say all this just to show that, although Richard has met Jacob before and Jacob gave him immortality, he still struggled to follow him, and maybe had trouble knowing who or what he was following..

  64. bobt, firstly thanks for your kind remarks. It’s greatly appreciated.

    You are correct about Richard in that scene back in 1954. He did make that statement, which I had forgotten about. Thanks for reminding me. It is an important piece of the puzzle.

    I agree with your take. Richard was subtly stating that he DID answer to someone, and you are right that he appeared to be the only person in charge of ‘the others’.

    I have always had the sneaking suspicion that all was not known about Jacob and didn’t want to rush to judgment. I also feel the same way about Nemesis.

    You make a valid point, in that Richard may be struggling to follow Jacob.

    There is far more to this story.

    Nice thoughts!

  65. Dabs, more good discussion here on Richard.

    I wish there was a way we could have a Richard montage of scenes…

    I keep thinking of how Nemesis/Flocke used Richard to direct him during a flash to tell Locke what to do. (Mentioned above.)

    Which made me think about how during the 1954 ‘flash’ Locke told Richard to come visit him when he was born, which made that “aha” moment last season for us to explain why Richard was there in ’54.

    But we don’t yet know fully how/why Richard was sent to young boy Locke to perform the test with the objects, which are looking more and more like Smokey/Nemesis objects – the knife, the drawing and potentially the vial of ash as opposed to sand. (Something that occurred to me today.)

    It doesn’t reveal anything new necessarily, only to add more weight to the argument that Richard has been a pawn to both Jacob and Nemesis. I still think back to the tone in which Richard said last season, “Jacob made me this way…” – such a heavy statement… so many possibilities of meaning. Jacob actually MAKING him a certain way, as opposed to giving him the CHOICE to be a certain way seems counterintuitive to the other “you don’t have to do this” or “only if you want to” type of statements to Hurley and Ben.

    I know we all keep saying how much more there is to be revealed… so so true.

  66. Hi kimberly, I agree with your views on Richard’s testing on young Locke. Locke chose the knife, which we know now that he should have chosen the Book of Law. The knife would definitely be an item indicative of the ‘smoke monster’.

    I would be inclined to also say ash. I will leave comment in your post later.

    Richard’s statements regarding Jacob do seem to imply that he had no choice in what he became.

    How I perceive this is, Richard made a ‘deal’ with the Devil…so to speak.

  67. Hi loop, I’m inclined to believe as you do, that they all are of ancient descent, but I’m not sure about Richard.

    I hope we are given some ‘island’ history and background also. Depending on the story between Jacob and Nemesis, we may get further information on what we need and enough to fill in the rest of the blanks.

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