Ricardo – MIB’s 1st Assassin
Last nights episode ‘Ab Aeterno’ provided a lot of answers. I am confused because I felt as though everything was pretty obvious, yet some people believe we were only given more questions. Below is my take on the Richard/Jacob/MIB situation – let me know if you agree or disagree and why!
Lets start from the beginning. As AES pointed out in his last post, he copied and pasted the convo from Lostpedia, so I copied and pasted it from him.
JACOB: I take it you’re here ’cause of the ship.
MAN IN BLACK: I am. How did they find the Island?
JACOB: You’ll have to ask ‘em when they get here.
MAN IN BLACK: I don’t have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren’t you?
BLA BLA BLA
MAN IN BLACK: Do you have any idea how badly I wanna kill you?
JACOB: Yes.
MAN IN BLACK: One of these days, sooner or later… I’m going to find a loophole, my friend.
JACOB: Well, when you do, I’ll be right here.
MAN IN BLACK: Always nice talking to you, Jacob.
JACOB: Nice talking to you, too.
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The Black Rock
During this conversaion Jacob & MIB are looking out at the ocean and see a large black ship approaching the island. The statue is still intact so we can safely assume this conversation took place before The Black Rock crashed into Tawaret’s face.
LOST has made the The Black Rock and important focus since season1. To think that the ship Jacob & MIB are discussing is not The Black Rock is being naive. They have 9 more hours, two of which are the season finale, when are they going to explain another ship coming and where it is in 2007.
YES – I know that the conversation took place in the daytime and the ship crashed at night.
How many times (the doctor, ajira flight, helicopter, Faraday’s experiment, even on island flashes turning day into night) do the producers need to show that the island time is different from off island time (even the water around it) before it is accepted.
That may not even be the case, it may have just taken the ship until dark to reach the island coast due to the impending storm or the fact that they weren’t looking for the island, they were brought to it!
The statue was all good when Jacob & MIB are talking about a black ship Jacob brought to the island approaching. Then we have a black ship that Jacob admits bringing to the island (The Black Rock) crashing into the statue on its way in.
Can we all agree that the ship from the season5 finale was The Black Rock? Ok good!
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Jacob & MIB
I think at this point it is pretty obvious that they were once friends. They have inside jokes, little sitdown conversations, the two of them live on the island alone together (they’re all dead)
Richard – before you brought my ship, there were others?
Jacob – Yes, many
Richard – What happened to them?
Jacob – They’re all dead
Jacob even told Hurley that he is dead because “An old friend grew tired of my company”
MIB said that “The devil (Jacob) betrayed me, he took my body, my humanity”
How can you be betrayed by someone you didn’t once trust? If MIB was always Jacob’s nemesis, how could he feel betrayed by his lifelong enemy?
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Ricardo
If Jacob has brought so many people to the island before and after Richard, what makes him so special? Ben has served Jacob for years and never even got to see him, but Richard goes to kill Jacob and gets to sit down to shoot the shit?
Richard’s back story is so important because that conversation before The Black Rock arrived and the actions of MIB after the crash is the first time MIB has made a legitimate threat to Jacob’s life!
Before that they were just two guys living on and island, one who thinks people are easily corruptible because it is in their very nature to sin, and one who wants to prove the other wrong.
*I am gonig to take a shot in the dark and say that they once worked together to see if people could help themselves, know the difference between right and wrong. MIB got tired of this game and wanted to leave the island and abuse his power.
*As a result Jacob betrayed his partner, took his body and trapped MIB on the island.
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1st Assassin
Jacob knows that MIB wants him dead, he is just not very concerned because MIB can’t do it himself.
MIB needs to find a loophole, he tells Jacob while looking at The Black Rock that he will find one. Jacob pretty much says “ok, goodluck with that”
But once The Black Rock crashes on the island, MIB/Smokey starts getting to work. He picks someone he can manipulate, someone whos heart he can play on (Richard has a broken heart, his wife just died). MIB is manipulating Sayid & Claire by touching on their hearts (Nadia & Aaron). He uses this information he got from scanning Richard to manipulate him into killing Jacob.
Why do I believe this is the MIB’s first attempt? See below!
Jacob – What are you doing here? Who gave you this?
Ricardo – Where is my wife?
Jacob – What?
Ricardo – Where is my wife?
Jacob – I don’t know your wife! Did she come here on the ship?
Ricardo – No, shes dead!
Jacob – Then why are you asking me where she is?
Long pause/stare of realization by Jacob
Jacob – Did you meet a man in the jungle dressed in black?
Ricardo – Yes
Jacob – What did he tell you?
Ricardo – He said you are the devil….
Jacob – (looks around) And?
Ricardo – He said the only way I would see my wife again is if I kill you (Jacob looks away, sort of suprised that MIB made this move). I saw her here, in this place, where is she?
Jacob – That wasn’t your wife
Ricardo – Yes it was, she’s dead, just like me
Jacob – You’re not dead
Ricardo – Yes I am in hell, I know that I am in hell
Jacob – You really think your dead
Ricardo – Where else would I be
Jacob – Allright then
Then Jacob starts to drown Ricardo in order to prove that since he is fighting for his life, he is not dead!
Ricardo – STOP!
Jacob – Why should I stop?
Ricardo – Because I want to live!
Jacob- That is the first sensible thing you’ve said, what’s your name?
Ricardo – Ricardo
Jacob – Ricardo, get up we need to talk
NOTE – Jacob asked
1. What is Richard doing there?
2. Who gave him the knife?
3. Did you meet a man in the jungle dressed in black ?
4. You did, ok what did he tell you?
Now if MIB has done this so many times, I think it is safe to assume that Jacob would know who sent this assassin, who gave him the weapon, and pretty much exactly what was said to him.
Jacob is now realizing that MIB is so desperate to escape that he will try and convince other people to kill Jacob.
His conversation with Richard proves this even further
Ricardo – What is inside?
Jacob – No one comes in unless I invite them in.
Ricardo – Are you the devil?
Jacob – (thinks about this question, maybe what it represents to mere mortals) No!
Ricardo – Then who are you?
Jacob – My name is Jacob, I am the one who brought your ship to this island
Ricardo – You brought it here, why?
Jacob- Think of this wine is what you keep calling hell, there are many other names for it too, malevolence, evil, darkness, and here it is swirling around in the bottle, unable to get out because it if did, it would spread. The cork is this island, and it is the only thing keeping the darkness where it belongs. That man who sent you to kill me believes that everyone is corruptible because it is in their very nature to sin. I bring people here to prove him wrong. And when they get here, their past doesnt matter.
Ricardo – before you brought my ship, there were others?
Jacob – Yes, many
Ricardo – What happened to them?
Jacob – They’re all dead
Ricardo – Well if you brought them here why didn’t you help them?
Jacob – Because I wanted them to help themselves, to know the difference between right and wrong without me having to tell them. It’s all meaningless if I have to force them to do anything, why should I have to step in?
Ricardo – If you don’t, he will!
(Jacob now looks away and thinks, goes to say something, thinks again)
OK – The all knowing amazing Jacob just had an epiphany. Now I know why I can’t prove MIB wrong, because he keeps fucking with all the people I bring here! I need someone to guide the people I bring here so that they are not so easily influenced by MIB.
Jacob (to Ricardo)- Uhhh, do you want a job?
Richard coming to kill Jacob made him realize his past mistakes, that the many people who have come to the island and died need a little guidance to make their own choices because if not, MIB will persuade them. He is worried about MIB more now then ever because MIB has actually made a real attempt to kill Jacob by using Richard.
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A Final Thought
If this does not convince you that this was the first attempt then I do not know what will (see below)
Jacob – Goodmorning!
MIB – Morning
Jacob – I see you got my present
MIB – Don’t gloat Jacob, it doesn’t become you
Jacob – SO YOU TRIED TO KILL ME?
MIB – You expect an apology?
Jacob – No, I guess I am just wondering why you did it
(He seems hurt that his friend would actually try to kill him)
MIB – Cause I want to leave, just let me leave Jacob!
Jacob – As long as I am alive you’re not going anywhere!
MIB – Well then now you know why I want to kill you, and I will kill you Jacob!
Jacob – Even if you do, somebody else will take my place
MIB – Well, then ill kill them too!
Jacbo – Here (gives MIB the wine) something for you to pass the time, ill see you around.
MIB – Sooner then you think.
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I believe this is when Jacob started picking candidates and MIB started to try and keep track of them in the cave.
After all of this, especially the final thought, can you argue that Richard was not infact MIB’s first assassin?
Great post, great post! I agree with much of what you said.
Def. 1st attempt by MIB to kill Jacob and this sets the whole thing in motion.
I’ve presented a post that has some other elements to this idea as well.
It’s called “Shepherd’s Pie – LOST’s Mythos”
I truly think whether these guys were brothers, friends, sons of some kind of gods, gods themselves, Jacob is trying to keep MIB there and the only way to leave is to get rid of Jacob and now that MIB has set this in motion, any replacements for Jacob.
BTW, I like you’re take on the fact that he is now seriously worried MIB might be able to kill him and escape. Makes Jacob come up with another plan. Up to that point it would seem to be a ping pong (yin/yang, ha!) match! Now things have gotten more serious!
Time to step things up!
@appledouble
Thanks a lot I really appreciate it. To be honest I thought most of this was quite obvious but I came on the site this morning and people are like,
the ship we saw in the season5 finale was dif from the black rock, richard is a candidate, jacob already knew who richard was and planned that…..
I’m like, are we all watching the same show?
Hi Joshcgs, I love your post. You did a really nice job in presenting the events and highlights from last nights show!
There is no doubt whatsoever that it is the Black Rock that we see off in the distance in the ‘beach scene’ from Season 5.
I completely agree that this was the first attempt by Nemesis to have somebody kill Jacob, as it happens almost directly after their ‘beach scene’ conversation. This is what obviously sets Jacob’s plan in motion to seek candidates for his own replacement, should Nemesis succeed.
Jacob appears to have been an ‘absentee landlord’ until Richard comes by and implants the idea in his head about having a ‘mediator’ between himself and the people he brings to ‘the island’.
Where I have problems with Jacob is, that while he says he shouldn’t have to tell people what is right and what is wrong; is that he does nothing and has Richard do little to inspire the difference. This may indicate that it isn’t Jacob’s role.
As for ‘the island’, it is the ‘cork’. The contents of the ‘bottle’ is what Jacob describes as ‘the darkness’. The focus needs to also be placed on the ‘bottle’, which ‘contains’ what is in it. By Nemesis smashing out the bottom of the bottle, indicates there is another way for the ‘darkness’ to escape.
Really nice post, Josh!
@Dabia
Hey how are you? Long time no speak! This is my first post all season (finally had a sick day) so I have been out of the loop.
Thanks for reading my theory, in regards to Jacob’s role and what he wanted from Richard, I agree it was not to influence any decisions, but to inform the people that Jacob is the one who brought them to the island. I believe this is how the others came to worship Jacob and fear the smoke monster, by the word of Richard.
Joshcgs, I have certainly missed your theories!
Great point on Richard being the individual to spread the word about Jacob and the ‘smoke monster’. He was in a very good position to impart that knowledge to everyone!
Again, really nice work!
@Josh, great point on Richard informing people about Jacob, didn’t think about that but it is obvious. I wonder how the “others” came to have a hierarchy with their own leaders. Maybe they started becoming aware of candidates and they became the leaders..
@Joshcgs
I also liked your point about MIB writing down the numbers in the cave that he showed Sawyer. That makes perfect sense! “Got this one on my side… cross them off… so and so got killed by so and so or whatever…. cross them off. Once I cross them all off, I’m outta here, baby!”
I don’t think anyone could argue with you about the Black Rock now, Josh 🙂 You were thinking that at the point of his attempted murder, Jacob started picking candidates, and I was wondering if you had any thoughts about the significance of the number of candidates and the number assigned to each candidate(or vice versa)? Also, he told Ricardo that he had brought many people there before–do you think that any of them were candidates, or that he only started after that? I was thinking about the lighthouse and it being the guide to the island, so do you think that those people were brought/guided to the island using the lighthouse and if so, wouldn’t they all be candidates? Basically, had Jacob always used the lighthouse to bring people there, because if so, they were all candidates or did the lighthouse come after the altercation with Ricardo and why the limit on the number of people he could bring there?
@JacobsDoubleWide
Richard has no idea what or who the candidates are. That seemed to be between Jacob/MIB, Dogen & Ilana&crew (&crew died pretty fast!)
As for picking a leader for the others, Jacob never wanted to intervene so I am going to assume that the first group under Ricardo’s advisement knew of Jacob and that the island was special but decided to choose their own leader. When Locke stormed into Richard’s camp in ’54 it seemed like he was the leader but I don’t know, Richard said they have a strict way of choosing leadership and it started at a very young age.
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@Odette
Tell that to ekolocation! He doesn’t agree with me that the sky is blue.
I do think that Jacob started picking candidates once he was made aware that MIB would never stop trying to kill him. MIB said that he has been around for a long time (way before Richard even)
Jacob said “if you kill me that someone else will take my place.” Before that he did not seem to thin MIB would kill him, so he realized he needs to start finding a possible replacement.
I dont think the lighthouse work in the traditional sense because instead of a beacon it is a mirror and would not work at night (which is when a lighthouse is needed)
I don’t think there are any limits. Jacob brings people to watch how they will act and certain people to relace him. As for the numbers I have no clue!
Joshcgs, I agree whole-heartedly with your theory. As you imply, most of these things ought to be obvious to anyone who has paid close attention.
OK yes i agree the time and weather on the island and outside the islands bounderies are completely different, but that ship looks nowhere near far enough away to be the BR.. I know it probably is the BR but if look at how far away that ship is compared to how far away the freighter was, there is a huge difference. So i think calling people naive for noticing this ‘flaw’ is being naive in itself..
Plus its only when they were in the storm that the slave noticed the statue.. Youd think the nice sunny weather would be sufficient enough to see the statue then..
Sorry if i sound like a bitch, im just trying to get my point across 😉 I swear im a nice person really!
Other than that slight disagreement, im loving the rest of this post.
I do have one question.. What is the POINT of bringing people to the island?! because from what i can tell it just seems to be the purpose of one big game between Jacob and MIB (jacob bringing them to prove people dont always corrupt).. Seriously! bit selfish of him to ruin other peoples lives just to be right! And MIB quite happily killing people to make sure J isnt right? Dew dew.
Oh yes and i do agree that Richard was the first assassin. But i dont think he was the first person MIB tried to manipulate (not that you said that, im just saying).. Would love to know more history on J & M.. ESPECIALLY MIBS NAME! but i really dont think we are gonna get much more than this..
It was a good episode 🙂
Once again, good post
Fantastic post, by the way is it me or when we see Jacob when he attacks Richard; he looks really quite ill. Also this is the first Ever Side of Rage we see from Jacob.
Another thing i want to know is, Are we assuming that Richard was given Eternal life with Jacobs touch, or are we missing a scene that still needs to explain why Richard has eternal life.
yay, a long theory! can’t wait to read this soon lol
I’ll admit I didn’t read the whole thing, but here’s my take on it: Jacob brings people to the island because he believes that MIB cannot persuade any of them to kill him. It’s like a game to Jacob, gambling with his life. MIB is determined to convince one of the people Jacob brings to kill Jacob because he wants to leave the island. Although this scenario makes it seem more like MIB is trying to prove Jacob wrong, not the other way around as suggested in the dialogue. But yeah, I do agree that Richard was the 1st attempted assasin because of the realization that seemed to come over Jacob when he found out MIB discovered a loop hole.
And one more thing about how Jacob and MIB used to be close friends… I agree that your evidence shows they must have once trusted each other and been “friends”, but what could have possibly happened to turn such wise/powerful men from friends to enemies? It can’t be just adisagreement and simple human shortcomings such as stubborness…
Great post!
For sure, I think we can all agree that Richard was the first, enough on that
And I myself always thought of the Ship in the beachscene as the Black Rock, and even though time does indeed work in ways on/off Island that we have yet to fully understand – I still have to back up SawyersGirl45.
You see the Statue in a perfect storm, but not during a beautiful day?
And I thought that by the time we saw the beachscene – the rest of the show was written(and thus erasing any chance of inconsistencies)
When it comes to getting to the Island,
we have to remember – that even though we’ve seen planes crash/land(at least three of them) HotAirBalloons, Helicopters, and submarines(damn right, plural) – back in those(presumebly) days – there were only ships, right?
So why does the one in the beachscene have to be the Black Rock..?
Especially as Jacob Tells Richard there have been “Many” before.. how the “Hell” did they get there, if not by ship?(In Lost I’m sure there possibilities – holler at me)
I think we can all agree that even though Richard was the first assassin – the BR was no the first ship, right? Just one in a long line of many. In other words – it could just as well have been another ship.
(Hahahaha, even though it’s awesome to theorize and all that, it’s one of the things we love about Lost – what everyone
seem to miss – is how little it really matters, whether the ship was really the BR or not – what difference would it make? None, whatsoever!(that we know of now anyway);)
Also, one thing that I’ve found important in the beachscene is Nemesis’ response when Jacob offers him dinner/fish: “I just ate” but when Richard is dining he doesn’t join him, which off course could be because he just wasn’t hungry or whatever – however! He then Tells Richard about Losing his body and all that. I would think that an “entity” without body has little or no need for food – which pushes me further to the idea that the “beach-ship” is not the BR.
I’d rather suggest that quite some time passed between, during which – Nemesis Lost his body.
For when Flocke(and yes, I know he hasn’t really stolen Lockes body, we still don’t really know how it works, unlike Jacob, he doesn’t even bleed) is first “resurected” he stands with his feet in the sand at the beach, eating a mango – and more importantly, commenting on how that must be the best mango he’s ever eaten.
By that time we thought it was really Locke, and I believed he enjoyed it so – because he was alive again, finally “back home” on his way to fullfill his Destiny!
In retrospect, I think that was Nemesis enjoying food for the first time in a looong while.
I know that I’m probably all over the place now, but some other things – the Loophole…..what-the-hell-was-it?
Did Nemesis have to “become” Locke/the Leader in order to get to Jacob? No, he didn’t! First of all, Jacob wasn’t hiding anywhere, he’d been(seemingly, even though he keeps jumping through time)chillin in the same place all that time(he even said to Nemesis, he’d be there waiting)
So it wasn’t to gain knowledge of Jacobs whereabouts, agreed..?
Was it because only the leader could kill Jacob..? No, Ben was no longer the leader(in a way, no one was, only the Idea of John Locke) and if that makes Flocke/Nemesis the leader, that still has no bearing as He didn’t kill Jacob himself(he’s unable to, that’s the whole point, right?) which brings me to….Benjamin.
In the end it’s Ben that kills Jacob…
Now, why the Hell is that..?
Why would Nemesis go through all this trouble of becoming “Locke” only to get Ben kill Jacob, when surely there must have been ten-thousand easier ways to get him to do that, right..?
Ben being greedy and selfish(from time to time, by his own admission he feared to lose his power, the only thing he thought mattered to him)he should have made a perfect “candidate” for Nemesis right from the beginning.
Hey Ben, wanna see your mother again/for the “first” time..?
Does anyone think he would ever pass that up? But for some reason he kills(mostly semmengly)bad people and interact more with the “good”
I’m guessing that upon scanning Richard Nemesis could see that he was a good person
truly sorry for a terrible misstake he didn’t mean to make – he is a good person, period!
Now the crew on the other hand, Whitfield at least – were bad(yes, I think killing slaves in chains counts as bad) and yet I bet you that whether Nemesis appeared as a man or Smoke, through tricks or sheer fear he’d get them all go charge Jacob with dynamite…but alas…no.. Nemesis “targets” flawed, but “good” people..
Does anyone have any thoughts about this?