Christian?
Flicking through some of these theories and something came to me. Dont know if anyones mentioned it before but here goes.
Not a lot of people are buying into the theory that Christian is MIB, i think it is very likely that in the earlier seasons MIB did have Christians body. The circumstances of the way Lockes body got taken are very similar to Christians ie coming to the island in a coffin, travelling around the island very quickly. Also theres the whole Claire thing she says Locke is her friend, the last time we saw with anyone she was with Christian and it didnt seem like she had just met MIB, especially when we know he has been turning her crazy since she left. This tells you that in one form or another MIB was with Claire.
OK what does this all mean or so what. Well we need to look at all the things Christian has actually done assuming he is MIB. The biggest and most interesting thing that came to mind was when he told Locke to push the donkey wheel, now what was the chain of events after it got pushed? He ended up getting killed and MIB took over his body, we all know theres no coincidences in lost. So i think MIB has been plotting to take Lockes body for whatever reason, maybe because hes the number 1 candidate i dont know.
Just a quick one but let me know what you think
One big thing is when he took over lockes body… There was still lockes body…….. Christians is no where to be found
First of all, from what we’ve been shown, no one has taken over Locke’s body. Locke’s body is just dead and burried.
Second, note that Claire separates between “my dad” and “my friend”, so at least in her eyes they are different.
Yes but just because we havent seen Christians dead body doesnt mean that its not on the island somewhere possibly buried.
It has been confirmed by the Lost creators that Christian is definitely dead in a physical sense at least. So its one of 2 things, Christian himself has arisen from the dead and somehow found a new body, or MIB has done the same thing that he did with Locke, which is replicate it somehow.
It seems that MIB’s shape-shifting ability only works with people who are dead.
Not sure about the Claire thing remember she is a bit crazy at the moment so i wouldnt really take in what she says too much as most of it is manipulated by MIB
My first comment was mainly to point out that Locke’s body has in fact not been taken over. I don’t know about Christian.
Yeah, i know what you mean but my theory basically is that whatever happened to Christian happened to Locke, didnt mean to say his body had been taken over
It seems the most likely explanation but, for no real reason, I’m still against Flocke and Christian being one and the same. Did you read Chiefs post about Christian?
Illana specifically states that Flocke can no longer change forms. MIB is stuck in Locke’s body. Also, Christian says to Sun and Frank something about Flocke being outside, and he was. They’re seperate. That doesn’t meaning they’re not similar in some ways, but I think the writers have shown us that they are seperate entities.
If they are separate then they must be on the same side because they both told claire that the others took her baby- ‘Claire briefly mentions to Jin that it was only her friend and her father (Christian) who was her company while she was alone in the Island. She told him that they said that it was the Others who took her son.'(lostpedia).
Also we dont see both Locke and Christian at the same place and time since Locke has come back to the island. Even though he said go and wait for Locke he couldve turned into smoke and gone there. The fact that he told them to go and wait for Locke shows that even if they are different they have the same motives and are on the same team.
Yes, Christian and Flocke told the same lie to Claire. I’m not 100% convinced yet that Flocke actually is the same entity as Smokey. Smokey might just be a high-tech tool used by both Flocke and Christian.
You make some good points. I agree that there’s been some rather solid evidence to believe that Christian is siding with MIB over the years.
I guess I just have a problem with two “people” being on the black side of the scale, where it seems Jacob was all alone on the white side.
We still have a lot to find out about MIB though. We need to know if he’s still constantly lying his ass off to everyone with EVERYTHING he says, or if he’s really just a lonely, trapped “dude” of sorts.
I still want to know the importance of Christian being on the island though. He’s obviously there for a reason, and I doubt it’s just to help MIB along his path. There’s got to be a correlation between Jacob bringing the people he’s brought to the island, and Christian pretty much knowing all of them before 815 even left the ground in Sydney.
ilie….I can agree with that. I still think the smoke is some sort of technology that is controllable.
Yes, and it’s so weird that Christian was there in the beginning, telling Vincent to wake Jack up because “he has work to do” (according to that mobisode).
If Christian (at that point) is associated with Jacob, it is easy to understand why, since Jacob probably brought the Losties to the Island.
If Christian (at that point) is associated with MIB, then you have to ask yourself when MIB started planning his loophole. It seems like it must have been long before 2004 in that case, since Christian was pretty much waiting for the Losties in 2004.
EXACTLY. So if Christian was waiting for those particlur losties, which is apparent, you could say Christian might have told Jacob who to bring. I mean, his son and daughter were there, it wasn’t coincidence.
However, I’m not convinced MIB was planning his loophole before the losties crashed. Smokie scanned Locke shortly after the crash as if he was just starting to plan things….I guess I’m up in the air with when MIB started his planning, but good job bringing up that mobisode.
Im not sure i think Christian mustve always been down with MIB or they are the same person.
Because if you throw Christian in the mix as a separate entity then what is his motive?
I must say he was jacob-like to start with when he was getting people to the island, but saying that he only had a hand in Ana Lucia and possibly sawyer, Ana Lucia was killed possibly by orders of Jacob and Sawyer is not exactly on jacobs side either.
So what has Christian done that puts him on the good side anyway??
I’m not saying there’s a “good” side to begin with. I also don’t think he’s solely part of either side. I think he’s “above” both Jacob and MIB, he’s possibly the actual “will” of the island.
I think the fact that there are still rules that MIB must obey despite Jacob being dead has something to do with Christian. I think Christian has had a say in almost everything we’ve seen to this point. There’s really no serious evidence to support that, but that’s just it. How could there be no evidence to support anything about Christian this late in the game when we all have a hunch he’s going to be important to the end of the show somehow?
Mixen Dixon – I already read it. It’s a good post, and an entertaining read, I gave it 5 stars for what it’s worth. But there are more assumptions than anything in there.
I personally am trying to find clues within the show to figure this Christian guy out, rather than try to associate him with something that’s already been written for thousands of years. I just can’t see the writers copying The Bible verbatim, or even slightly.
whatistime, I believe that Claire’s conversation with Jin about her father (Christian) also telling her that ‘the others’ had Aaron speaks volumes about Christian; and him not being a ‘benevolent’ force.
Throw into the mix that he was the one who told Locke to turn the FDW, along with him ensuring that Ben (who was needed in 2007 to kill Jacob) remained with Sun & Frank, places him in a speculative position.
I do believe that there is more to the story of Christian and what role he has actually played. It’s possible that there might be a twist.
Nice theory and discussion!
They are different.
It would appear that Christian is on MIB side. But Lost isn’t always what it seems. Deciphering between what is Fact, Lies, and Half-truths is what we have all been doing for the past 5+ seasons. But which is which: I think when Flocke says “I am the smoke thing”, we need to take this as fact. MIB IS Flocke who IS smokey. ilieintheshadowofthestatue- I really think the last episode settled that once and for all. MIB is Smokey and Richard is from the Black Rock, period.
People have been posting about the statement “Everybody answers to somebody” lately. Are MIB and Jacob really the top of the food chain? Maybe they answer to Christian. Whoever or whatever he is.
And as for the equality if Christian is on MIB side, I too have a bit of a problem with two people on the “black” side. If you look at all the “Jacob and Esau” theories you see that in the Bible Isaac(Jacob and Esaus father) liked Esau more and Rebecca(mother) liked Jacob more. But who the hell could be their Mother? I don’t know but she was brought up in the last episode. Could that have been her introduction? ???
MIB could have been Christian and Locke before Jacob died. Remember the smoke monster becomes Alex and tells Ben to follow Locke? he was in Locke’s body when he turned into Alex (who is super hot by the way).
I don’t think it was until Jacob died that the smoke monster became stuck as Locke and I think this fact is HUGE to the story of the 2.
The smoke monster was Christian while in the cabin with Claire and that was her friend, she knew it wasn’t her dad just like she knew it wasn’t Locke.
This isn’t to say that Jacob or some other being wasn’t being Christian at some point too. Notice that sometimes Christian has the white shoes on (when he leads Jack to water) and sometimes he has boots on (when he’s in the cabin with Claire and telling Locke to turn the wheel).
Thanks Dabs and good points from everyone…
I know where youre coming from Chief, and i agree about the whole dark side (btw its interesting how it was Locke that mentioned about the dark and light side in season 1)
i dont believe we necessarily know hich is which or whos on what side. But i do think that the smoke monster was Christian just from the evidence and i think hes had too much of a small (although mysterious) role so far to be such a massive force above both jacob and mib.
I think a lot of people are clinging on to him being jesus or god and having the whole religious bloodline through jack and aaron, which wouldnt be a bad story but i think lost is a bit cleverer than that. Also there has been no evidence to support that and a hell of a lot of evidence that points toward MIB taking Christians image.
Another point is the difference in recruiting styles MIB seems to use force to get followers whereas jacob uses kindness or understanding and gives people more of an option. Like jdw mentioned with Alex commanding Ben to follow Locke. This would also point to MIB being on the dark side!!
I hate to keep being devil’s advocate (no pun intended), but to me it seems MIB gives a choice as well..follow him or die. Jacob does the same thing, just in a more subtle fashion.
I cannot wait for the Richard the episode and the MIB/Jacob episode..some people are mad at this season, but I think it is the best one yet.
Someone stated this already (and it may be Mix…) but whomever did, I tend to agree… I’m leaning towards Christian being a third party (or at the very least on Jacobs team). A lot clues about him would seemingly have us believe he is with MIB, but the fact that we don’t see them together doesn’t necessarily place him on his side or make them one in the same. A matter of fact it could be the main reason why he is not on MIB’s team. There are many cons going on throughout lost, the fact that Christian said to Sun & Lapidus to wait for Locke doesn’t necessarily make him a partner with MIB. The creators set it up so that we may insinuate this, but it doesn’t make it necassarily so. I believe Christian may be weaving his own plan for the final outcome and he might possibly be the ONE that Jacob and MIB answer to as well… He distinctly says that he can speak for Jacob when talking with Locke in the cabin and also says that Locke needs to turn the wheel (not Ben). He even chides Locke for allowing Ben to do so when Locke finally gets to the wheel. As far as telling Locke to push the donkey wheel, he also mentioned to Locke to say “Hi” to his son. Which Locke did and it seemed to be a main reason why Jack came back to the Island. Now why would MIB want Jack back on the Island? Jack seems to be on Jacobs side now so, so you could definitely argue the point that Christian was (on his own accord) one step ahead of MIB’s plans for Locke. He realized the loophole that MIB was looking for and quite possibly was the one to warn Whidmore that Locke is coming and to set Locke on the path to gather the other 815ers/Oceanic 6…
As for the similarities with the MIB taking over Lockes form and maybe Christian’s… tne key difference that has been pointed out here is that Christian’s body has never been found – and in either reality to boot! On the other hand we saw with our own eyes that Locke’s body was there on the beach while MIB was mascarading in his likeliness. Not the same thing, or at the very least to be determined when we finally find Christian’s body…
As for Sawyer, he has always been a reluctant leader but regardless of this he has all the qualities of Mastermind or rather a master manipulator. As a leader he knows when to be present and act by excerting his authority as well as stepping aside and letting others do his dirty work (ie. his statement to Kate about letting MIB & Whidmore fight it out) Hey, even MIB states that he is the best lair he has ever seen! As Sawyer has constantly stated time and time again, he is not on anybody’s side and to me, this makes him the wild card of the candidates. Whom ever secures his loyality (however little it may be worth) could for all intents and purposes, make the scale tip to there side.
Another correction to this Theory (if I may)… Where was it exactly stated that there’s no coincidences on this show? I actually have all the DVD’s and if I’m not mistaken during some of the extra’s where they interview the creators, they state something about how we pass through life and at times, brush shoulders with others at points in our life not knowingly, yet down the road we coincidentally wind up befriending or having relations with these people. I mean that happens every day. So I don’t buy that statement at all.
One last comment (away from this theory) that I’ve been meaning to say for sometime… I applaud Chiefs’ fervor and presence on this site. You know your Lost and you mix it with your humor – that’s a welcome relief in regards to some of the seriousness at times here… and I vote your Avatar the Best All-Time on this site. I can not stop laughing when ever I see it… One day (if you haven’t already) you must explain that picture.
Chow for Now!
Thanks for the reply Ardent, just want to comment quickly on the coincidence argument and i may come back to your other points later.
What i meant by that and maybe i shouldve rephrased it, is that the writers cover their bases quite well and if something happens in Lost that isnt really explained at the time you expect there to be an explanation or ends to tie up and some point.
Things like Jack meeting Desmond before they went to the island i dont think they had it in the script that ‘Jack meets some guy and by coincidence its desmond who he then meets later on the island’.
What im saying is that the lost writers dont just write in coincidences within the show it wouldnt make sense. If they did say something about how there are coincidences in life that was obviously said to throw people off the scent.
To touch on the Christian point, just because the body was found it doesnt mean that he isnt dead and it has been categorically stated that he is dead in a physical sense.
And finally how do you explain Christian and Claires relationship and is it not very very similar to hers and this new Locke?
it is absolutely similar because the smoke monster was being christian just as he is now locke. the difference is he is now stuck as locke because of jacob’s death (I think).
The writers put it right in our face by Claire saying “my friend”. the last person we saw her with was Christian and she knew then that is wasn’t Christian, it was her “friend” aka Flocke, aka Smokey.
EXACTLY JDW!!
The story was everyone was wondering what happened to Claire and her dad and then she says her ‘friend’ is coming back. We assume a few things with her relationship with her ‘friend’ one is that hes known her for a few years (most likely 3) because they seem to have a relationship and im sure its mentioned that hes been telling her that the others have Aaron for a while. Obviously if he has been telling her this for years then it couldnt have been in the guise of Locke because we know that he has only become Locke recently. So obviously he mustve been in another form.
Most likely this form was Christian as he was the last person that we saw her with and it seemed like the same creepy situation that shes in now with MIB.
So for anyone saying that Christian is not MIB, what form has MIB been all this time? It seems overly complicated to say that Christian took claire and then somehow left her and then somehow MIB took someone elses form and befriended her ……
Thinking about it, i think its clear that MIB is Christian!
i just had a very strange thought after reading all these comments on this very strange ‘character’ Christian, all of them made me think that something just isnt adding up… so after a second of thought ive come to a strange conclusion about a strange character. What other strange character do we know about, that we have not yet seen the true purpose of? …….The island. My guess is now, that Christian is a representation of the island, for the reasons of the contradictory parts he has played i do not know yet, i only have one scene that will kind of make my point and that is when Jack is going home from the Hospital in season [4 or 5] he is in like the lobby part, when he comes round the corner Christian is sat down in the dark on a chair when he stands up and says ‘JACK!’ Jack then looks terified and starts to walk towards him, when a female doctor calls him and he turns around and asks for a prescription for Moozipan. The reason i have only this scene so far is because we all know that the island got Jack back eventually, and this was its way of telling him ‘Im going to get you sooner or later’
…Of course i could be mental, its up to you to decide.
I understand what you are saying about the coincidences, and I agree there’s an awful lot of them if not the majority of them that are meant to be tied up later on in the show, but I also feel that some of them are just mere coincidences and/or deadends for that matter – that’s all. Plus, the creators have stated this more than once that they are not going to tie up all lose ends and so we may never know if they were all part of the end game or just merely coincidental circumstances… now if they come out with a book that clears all this up than I shall relent to that. And really this could honestly be a matter point of view – I believe that is what they were getting at in the extras on the DVD that I mentioned.
As for Christian, I absolutely believe he is dead as well. I was just stating that the difference (and its not a shrug-off difference either because the creators make a point to highlight this few times throughout the show) is that we have not found his body yet. And why make this glaring point in the ALT timeline as well? It seems they are pointing towards a different fate for Christian (or it could be a mere coincidences… ;))
As for the smokey emphatically being Christian (JDW)… show me where he changes into him and I’ll agree with you. Yet we’ve seen this Season that Flocke has changed into him a few times (we’ll we haven’t exactly seen the change, but everything that they have showed us points to it down to the fact that he states to Sawyer he is the smoke monster.)
As for Christian/Claire relationship… I mentioned in my comment, he stated he was speaking for Jacob and that Claire was with him – that was it and that was 3 years prior to the next time we see Claire. It’s possible that Christian took Claire from Aaron to protect Aaron from MIB. And like I said he could be playing with Claire’s head as well…
How’s this for a twist – It might be possible that MIB can not see Christain at all(this may have to do with his body missing). If MIB thinks Claire is crazy then if she has told him that her father visits her regularly and yet MIB can not see Christian, wouldn’t this further lend creedence to MIB thinking Claire is crazy… just a thought. To add to that, if Christian is essentially the higher deity than both Jacob & MIB, than I would assume he could slither around that Island in ways that those two would not even know… It took us 5 Season’s to find out that there was even an MIB!
I could be completely wrong but to me it is to convienient to assume Christian is aligned with MIB.
Wharfrat77, like most viewers, I’ve assumed since the season 5 finale that MIB = Smokey = Flocke. That still seems most likely to me. But I’m also open to the thought that Smokey is just a transportation device or something like that. I guess that the guy who rides Smokey can still call himself the Smoke Thing. I will not be 100% convinced when I see Smokey morph into a humanoid or vice versa (and how can anyone be?).
Sorry, I meant ‘until’ instead of ‘when’.
Another key point that I was going to mention as well (thanks Destiny) is that we see Christian off Island in that hospital scene. Since when has Smokey/Flocke been able to get off the island? Isn’t that what he’s striving for? Jacob is the only one that we have seen be able to get off and on the Island… Richard too (essentially Jacobs people)
i just had a very strange thought after reading all these comments on this very strange ‘character’ Christian, all of them made me think that something just isnt adding up… so after a second of thought ive come to a strange conclusion about a strange character. What other strange character do we know about, that we have not yet seen the true purpose of? …….The island. My guess is now, that Christian is a representation of the island, for the reasons of the contradictory parts he has played i do not know yet, i only have one scene that will kind of make my point and that is when Jack is going home from the Hospital in season [4 or 5] he is in like the lobby part, when he comes round the corner Christian is sat down in the dark on a chair when he stands up and says ‘JACK!’ Jack then looks terified and starts to walk towards him, when a female doctor calls him and he turns around and asks for a prescription for Moozipan. The reason i have only this scene so far is because we all know that the island got Jack back eventually, and this was its way of telling him ‘Im going to get you sooner or later’
…Of course i could be mental, its up to you to decide.
Wow this post is a total extension of Chief’s “Christian, ruler of the Island.” An alot the ideas you have there are from a comment I posted on Chief’s post.
Im not saying your taking ideas or anything but its just a little coincidental for me but all in all good post an im definitely torn between what side Christian is on but im leaning towards Dark but then I remember some scenes that make me think he is a good guy as well.
I also believe that all visions seen off the Island are Jacobs doing. Again, it seems impossible for MIB to coordinate this if he can not get off the island.
Here’s another thought in regards to Christian, why was he unable to touch Locke down in the wheel chamber? Could it be that he was already touched by Jacob and if in fact if he was touched again by Christian his fate would be different or he’d change the course he was on? MIB has no problem touching people.
Sorry BING, kudos to you if you’ve already talked about this… but in my case I don’t have time to view all theories or comments on this sight and I believe I tried to give credit in my first comment on this Theory… maybe it was your comment that I read but in either case lets not get our knickers in twist in regards to who said what here… there’s obviously going to be some repetive stuff with the Season taking full swing and the addition of many users… no harm, no foul. Peace!
@BiNG, sorry for any Infringment there is none intended as i have not seen your comment, but im glad you are Slightly siding with the idea. Its clear for me that Christian IS NOT man in black in any way, and i dont think that Christian is on any side, which is one of the reasons i believe he IS the island himself, i think he is behaving the way he is for the way things will play out in the long run for the characters.
any other thoughts on the idea?
Hi Bing, my apologies if you were talking about a similar topic, i dont come on this site all the time but i said in the post sorry if its already been brought up, if i had seen i most likely wouldnt have posted this.. like ardent said let not get our knickers in a twist!
Anyway….
Ardent are you talking about Christian being off island before the crash as obviously this was prior to him dieing and im not claiming that MIB was always Christian im just saying that when he crashed on the island MIB did to Christian whatever hes done to Locke now.
Also when Sun meets Christian you do hear the smoke monster sounds before he appears and you also see Claire in the background so that tells us that Christian has been around and been in touch with Claire for the whole time until the change to Flocke. so if at some point they claire did switch from christian to flocke this mustve happened very quickly within the space of a few weeks, and Flocke mustve built this relationship up in this time and also lied to her.
i think more likely MIB just changed forms.
Its not a shrug of the shoulders about christians body not being found but it couldve been a way to throw us off the scent or keep us guessing
I guess we can at least conclude that the writers have made great efforts to make Christian as mysterious as possibly possible. We don’t know anything about him, except that he looks like Jack’s and Claire’s father!
Remember when Eko goes to look for his brother Yemi & finds his dead body in the smuggler’s plane with Charlie?
Well Eko finds his body & there is the sad scene with Eko & his little bro but after he burns the plane with his brothers body in it, he returns to the plane with Locke after the hatch is imploded an he goes back to the plane & moves a boulder Eko placed infront of the planes door before he burned it in “The 23rd Psalm”
When he goes back he moves the rock an the body is missing (Jesus Resurrection Type Stuff) Eko definitely makes it a point in the episode “The Cost Of Living” that his brothers body went missing from the plane but Eko hangs back while Locke & other survivors visit the Pearl station.
Then we see Yemi which Eko follows then they talk, Yemi asks “are you ready to confess?”
An Eko tells him “No that he has done all that he had to so that he can survive”
Then Yemi tells him “you speak to me as I am your brother”
This is obvious that its the smoke monster because Eko follows this Not Yemi an all of a sudden there is the big bad black smoke to kill my favorite character.
The significance in all of that is Yemi’s body went missing before the smoke monster was able to take his physical form which he obviously does.
So where is Christians Body??? He definitely should of been in that Casket when Jack finds it but its not, we also saw alot of Dreams involving Yemi but they were just dreams and to me didnt suggest smokey was manipulating his dreams as well in the form of Yemi.
We see Jack chasing his Father Christian in season 1 while he is awake an are not dreams, In one scene we see Jack actually touch his fathers shoulder an Christian actually turns around an its very eerie so Christian is a physical presence if he can be touched so hes not just a spirit.
Also after Locke falls down the FDW Chamber and breaks his leg when the time flash occurs while he is going down the well, he meets up a Christian down there like he was waiting all along an Christian tells Locke what he has to do an when John is all ready to go he asks Christian if he can help him up & Christian tells him no I cant…Why NOT??? He is in a sense helping Locke already by telling him what he has to do but he cant physically help him up.
Ahhh man what are knickers? Im not claiming you took ideas and I know im not the only person to think about the show but I saw it coincidental that there were was a post similar to this that was pushed out of the theories because of other theories being posted then one of the new theories has ideas similar to mine that I posted just yesterday.
Im not accusing & I really dont care so please dont think an apology is necessary.
Sorry Ardent I was typing for awhile an didnt see your comment about Christian & Locke after Locke breaks his leg.
Good points Bing.
I really dont understand the people that are saying Christian is not MIB. Like are you saying that Christian came back alive physically and walks around the island? we’ve already seen that Christian can communicate with people as he communicates with Locke and Sun, so if this is the case why does he not communicate with Jack and tell him what to do? I really dont understand that.
When he communicates with Locke in the FDW chamber it is quite weird because that was back in time so i dont know whats going on there.
Good point with the yemi thing, the body is has also disappeared so that tells us that the exact same thing has happened before.
Ardent-Do We really have any idea when they are when Locke turns the wheel? I looked at lostpedia an got this.
“In a time before 1974, a time-traveling Locke descended a well near the future location of the Orchid. After falling into the underground chamber, another time flash transported him to a time before the well had been built. Christian Shephard appeared to Locke and told him the wheel had “slipped off its axis”, and that Locke needed to give it “a little push”. (“This Place Is Death”) The wheel was vibrating and shifting back and forth, and a green light was pulsating intermittently from the other side. Locke pulled the wheel in a clockwise direction, and it suddenly lurched, regaining its axis. The room flooded with light as the last time flash occurred, and the rest of the survivors on the surface above ended up in 1974. (“LaFleur”) Locke himself was transported to late 2007 in Tunisia. (“The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham”)”
So he decended down sometime before 1974 then the flash an the well is gone, when could he be here? Because its definitely significant because Christian was there pretty much waiting for Locke so he can tell him what to do, How is Christian there? Did he flash with the losties an knew where to be(?) We seen Richard an all the others remain in their time and not flash with John & the others so that cant be it.
That would mean Christian is there at whatever time John was supposed to be down there unless he is able to travel but not be physical because why else cant he help John up? But something weird is that Christian is able to pick up a lantern and light it up while there so he present in that time.
That Scene really reminds of the scene when a time traveling Locke gets shot by Ethan & then suddenly travels to the future in 2007 to find a WAITING Richard Alpert on stand by to help John Locke with the bullet in his leg (Bullet In Leg Richard helps after flash, broken leg Christian DOESNT help after flash) & Richard tells John what he has to do next, just like Christian does while they’re in the chamber an Christian & Richard actually tell Locke the exact samething…”You will have to die” An who told that Richard??? Fake Locke did so it does make sense that MIB told Christian to tell Locke that as well.
In season 1 while Jack is chasing the ghost of his father he hears a very familiar sound, Jack hears his fathers glass with Ice in it & probably a little something something in there as well but its weird that we hear that noise on the Island an the only way I find that possible is that reincarnate Christian is still drinking on the Islans somehow or smokie is using his sound effects to manipulate Jack to chasing him where Jack finds an empty coffin but he also finds fresh water & shelter in the caves so I cant say this was all diabolical or anything since ALL the survivors were fighting over the last of the Oceanic water bottles. This is in character a good thing because it helps Jack out big time an smokie seems evil so im torn if its actually Christian trying to help his son or smokie being manipulative somehow but I dony see the catch.
Whats the significance you might ask, I really dont know but maybe it will spark up somebody.
they have made it a point to show us TWICE that Christian’s coffin is empty… therefore, it is IMPORTANT…
He’s not MIB
I think the relevance of Christian, it that he is going to be related by blood to the replacement of both FLOCKE & JACOB…. (I think I figured some stuff out w/ tuesday’s episode… I’ve just been SO BUSY…)
We could be over thinking this. The question I left out (and I didn’t read every comment but got through most) what about Alex when Ben was being Juged. What was she and where was Flocke. I mean he was Rite there then gone, oh then there’s Alex. How long did it take him to do that. And when he was in the shoe and killed Bhram. He disappeared into thin air and came cruising in as smokey.
This has turned out to be quite the discussion.
It’s funny how everyone’s thinking about Christian now considering he’s the only character in this show that doesn’t lie his ass off every episode. Looks like everyone needed a break from the “Flocke” of lies.
Ardent Knight – I appreciate it. I just try enjoying myself on here. I hope everyone else does the same.
ifoundmyloophole – if he’s tethered to the main Island(and I agree with you, I think he is)and He/Christian are the same – then He wouldn’t be able to appear to Michael on the Freighter now could he?
And more importantly; finally release Michael(You can go now, Michael)something I would guess Nemesis could not do – only the Island Itself, or someone on Its behalf.
It quite possible that it may have been Nemesis on some occasions, but I linger to the hope that there’s more to Christians precence on the Island than just that
Christians actions seem to prove he is helping out MIB this whole time or MIB is controlling him or simply was him when we saw him throughout the story.
I at first thought that Christian was his own person acting on his own personal agenda that isnt revealed to us yet but he seems to be tipping the scales in favor for MIB.
Why else would Christian make it a point to tell Locke that HE had to move the Island the first time an not Ben? But he doesnt tell him how an that right there seems very inconsistent to me.
Christian appearing to Sun & Lapidus an telling them they had to wait for Locke, how else would he know that he was coming? or even there?
Just seems like a Con to me but Christian is tricky cause he still acts as a man on his own path by telling Locke to tell his son Hello an him holding Aaron & what not just seemed like Christian but like I said before im torn on which side Christian is on.
Huh in the end we can find out that maybe that MIB is actually the good guy while Jacob is the manipulative mastermind “weaving” this whole tapestry together to find a replacement for himself so he can leave the Island behind & keep MIB trapped but its just speculation so far.
Also something interesting is that when Flocke is talking to Richard he tells him
he wouldnt have left him in the DARK like Jacob did, so the opposite of that is to bring him into the light an remember when John first see’s the smoke monster & later describes what he saw to Eko telling him it was a bright light an beautiful.
This whole light & dark thing really reminds me of Romeo & Juliet(The Book) with all the sybolism and references to light & dark.
When Llana says that someone else has been staying in the Cabin we automatically think or know its Christian who has been in there using it, we also see a piece of JACOB’s Tapestry cut out & hung on the wall by the exact same knife that Jacob used to gut that fish on the beach so how would Christian or whoever else was in there able to get such personal items from Jacob?
The Tapesrty was a hint to Llana to were Jacob is or where he moved an seemed more helpful than anything.
Quite a discussion we got here…
I did not see this prior to making comments yesterday, but this what they say about Christian on Lostpedia:
Christian is, along with Locke, Yemi and Alex, someone who is deceased but continues to appear on the Island. A few of Yemi’s appearances were confirmed to be influenced by the Monster in the Official LOST Podcast (March 21, 2008 Edition), however, Christian was confirmed as being one of three characters (Yemi and Kate’s horse being the other two) to be classified as “undead”. Alex similarly died on the Island and later appeared as a manifestation of the Monster. Ben’s mother died off of the Island, but has also appeared on the Island.
What “Undead” means is beyond me but they don’t say anything about him being MIB.
And not that I base my decisions on Lostpedia excerpts but they are usually good for up keep on stats and by there count he has visited 11 characters after dying and 4 (including his two children) before dying. It seems he’s on a mission of his own. I could be wrong but definitely not MIB!
Whoa, Its been awhile since I seen a post with this many comments & with all of us focusing on Christian & all the limited roles we have seen Christian in, then im positive we can all figure something out.
@loop- I know Smokey can project images through his smoke an all that but to project an image like Yemi seems waaay out there even for Lost, one idea I had was that there are 3 different type of smokes.
We saw alot of random smoke evrywhere in the beginning of the seasons, some smoke seemed like scouts or something because they were real small & seemed to follow the losties until it is seen then it takes off an im not sure what episode an I think its the episode when they are walking back from the Black Rock with the dynamite the first time.
I remember Jack or Kate asking one another “Did You See That?” but my memory is a little ‘Hazy’ at the moment but anyways there might be more than one smokey because we have seen the Smoke Monster HUGE at times but we do see smaller types of smoke
Another good example is when Kate & Juliet get handcuffed together & the smoke monster is coming after them and they get behind the sonar fence thingy & we see the smoke monster coming right for them but before the smoke monster smashes up against the fence it comes together as 1 from 3 seperate parts of smoke an then it smashes into the fence right infront of Juliet…look it up I think the episode is called “Left behind”
An Radsinzky or Kelvin put on his blast door map something like Cerberus vents marked throughout the Island & Cerberus Security System…Well Cerberus was Greek mythology & not egyptian but it was supposedly a 3 headed dog that guards Hades an purpose is to keep those from escaping Hades.
blah blah blah dont feel like reading 61 comments, and too lazy to fully explain myself, christian is something else, some other creature. the end
Wow, cant believe all this discussion has come from a couple paragraphs i wrote. Obviously everyone must feel that Christian must be important one way or another.
I still strongly believe that Christian is projected by smokey. I dont think that Lostpedia saying hes undead means that hes something else, lostpedia can only tell you so much. Them saying hes undead might as well say we dont know what the hell he is.
If i see anything die and then start walking around i would say its undead, wheather its form has been taking or whether its a zombie.
Also are we really saying that Christian is a zombie? as that seems to be the other option of the undead situation.
Just wanted to throw a couple things out there, do you remember back in the first season when smokey killed tons of people? assuming he is at least MIB why do you guys think he was doing it, remember he used to kill someone nearly every episode!!
Another thing when Ben seems to call smokey to kill keamy and all his soldiers, the hieroglyphs on Bens secret door is actually translated to say ‘summon protection’ which is quite interesting.
Either Achalli or AES wrote a theory saying MIB’s spirit was contained inside the cabin by the ring of ash. It was a little while ago but I think the theory was Richard helped seperate MIB from the smoke monster and trapped him there so they couldn’t get back together. We don’t know that Christian broke the ash ring but it seems plausible to me. The only reason I can think for him to do that besides being on MIB’s side is to break the stalemate that seems to be between Jacob and MIB. I think Christian is playing a deeper game than we think. There is some sort of end game going on that we don’t have enough info on yet to judge.
Ok, I’ve got two seperate conflicting theories on Christian:
1. Christian in his suit(w/WHITE tennis shoes). Is the real Christian with his real body (dead or undead or whatever) This is the Christian who helped Jack find the caves and appeared to Jack off the island.
Christian in his grey shirt is the smoke monster using christian’s body similarly as he did w/Locke. This is the Christian who helped further MIB’s plan (Locke, Claire, Etc.)
Or
2.Christian acts as a guide for the island. He helps Jack find the caves, he helps Locke get off the island, he helps people do what the “island” wants them to do. When he is in his suit he is helping the “good” side of the scale, when he is in his grey shirt he is helping the “evil” side of the scale. Before he even got to the island he helped Sawyer do what he was “supposed” to do by encouraging him to kill Duckett when Sawyer had already decided not to.
Also, Locke’s dead body on Aijira was acting as a substitute for Christian’s dead body. That may be an arguement for him being Smokey, but either way I think it’s very important.
Excuse me. *Grey shirt Christian is the smoke monster REPLICATING Christians body. Excuse me.
I think he is just a guide, as a sheppard is a guide. Not necesarily a higher controlling power.
I never saw Claire and the bit of smoke before. That’s pretty cool.
ifoundmyloophole – I think Dave was Libby’s husband before he died. She told Desmond (in a flashback) that her ex-husband’s name was David, and they were both in the mental institution with Hurley.
Dave probably didn’t want Hurley trying to get with Libby and therefore tried killing him. I know that sounds retarded, but oh well.
Or Hurley is friends with Dave in this sideways time line, and Libby is one of their wives.
We see Libby distraught and staring at Hurley, because maybe she has reconnected with herself, remembers Hurley from the ‘future’ and knows that Hurley is the only one who can talk to her dead husband.
Libby has weird taste in guys..
Good points ifoundmyloophole… no need for puking I think they mentioned this a few times (last by Doggen) that “everyone answers to someone”.
I believe the Shephard family is a bit more involved then most – I’m really just speculating from what we’ve seen. That’s what makes this show so great – so many lose ends, so many possibilities…
I answer to no one
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.