Jughead sunk the island
OK, this doesn’t quite fit w/last night’s episode BUT …
One thing about Sidewaysville (SLU) – in the ‘expanded’ version they always say it’s what happened if the plane never crashed.
I believe this means that the plane crashing is the exception and SLU is THE timeline. Everything that we’ve watched is IF the plane crashed … so, instead of WHH, it’s a butterfly effect.
So, how would they effect eveything … through the time traveling.
We know the island was underwater in 2004 AND the statue was down. Since BR smashed the statue, it sunk after it arrived.
The most effect will be the earliest, and I believe the earliest is moving Jughead to safety.
So, what would happen if they didn’t move it to safety.
It wouldn’t effect Dharma coming – but it would still encourage them to get off the island at some point. This explains why Chang knows to evacuate people we see in Sidewaysville/SLU, [Charlotte, Ben, etc. ] when there is no Dan-from-the-future to tell him. Maybe it was all
Making David exist before they got on the plane – but not after they crashed because something the Losties did on the island in the timeflashes negatively effected his mother/grandparent (they sure did a lot of shootin). Similarly, maybe Ben’s mom lived or Anthony Cooper had a better life wrt Locke (but not Sawyer – of course, maybe, like Hurley winning the lottery being his destiny Sawyer’s parents dying by some guy named A.Cooper was his.)
Furthermore, I don’t think this let the Jinny out of the bottle (great post, that) because the world doesn’t seem extra evil or manipulative. Maybe in this universe Jacob & MIB both died.
And, maybe MIB stirred up the plane-crashing thingy as part of a plan.
It’s the real timeline that influences island behavior (for that is the real person and their real destiny).
I have to disagree, I think Jughead not going off is what caused the Island to sink. The Losties would not be at the Swan site in 1977 to drop Jughead in the hole if their plane never crashed.
If they were not there to drop Jughead in the hole then the energy would have eventually sucked the whole Island under water (this has to be the only way an Island could be under water).
I agree with JacobsDoubleWide. I believe jughead going off prevented the plane from crashing.
This presents a chicken-and-the-egg scenario. If the plane had not crashed, they would not have gone back in time to set off Jughead, and the island would have sunk, preventing their plane from crashing.
The only way to get around this chicken-and-the-egg paradox caused by time traveling is to have two parallel universes, one where the scenario played out and one where it didn’t. So…
Timeline A: Jughead detonated, island does not sink, plane crashes, losties travel back in time and set off Jughead
Timeline B: Jughead is not detonated, island sinks, plane does not crash (because island is not there to crash it), losties do not travel back in time, Jughead is not set off
The two timelines diverge the day jughead is/is not detonated. Anything before that is the same, anything after that can be different in any way (due to butterfly effects or more directly, such as Jacob not being alive to touch people). A lot of things are in fact the same due to the universe course correcting because certain things are destined to happen.
The island sunk sometime after the DI showed up. We saw the barracks built in the underwater shot.
But we also know Ben and his father were there in the FSW but never went back. We have to assume that they were evacuated during the incident. But we can’t assume it was the incident that caused the island to sink. It may have been.
So it could have sunk anytime between 1977(the incident) and 2004
I think the Jughead did go off but the result was not the one they expected. It did go off, but the two powers negated each other to some degree. The hatch was built in order to contain the remaining energy. The bomb did not sunk the island as its power was not that great…but it created some problems, the radiation caused the pregnancy problems.
At the same time the Losties travelled in 2007.
So the past cannot be changed. What is done is done. Since there was no talk about a bomb in 2004+ then it means there was no bomb. After the incident Radzinsky and co finished the Swan station and the story went as we know.
The island sunk because it is the result of Jacob’s and MIB’s game but in a parallel universe.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. To understand this theory you have shake your head clear of anything you already saw on the show.
(IF) There was no crash. There was no incident. NOTHING we’ve seen in the past 5 seasons happened because that ALL HAPPENED AS A RESULT OF THE CRASH.
It’s not that the plane landed BECAUSE of Juliet. The real timeline IS the SLU one.
When they got on the plane Daniel was born, Ben was a dad-lovin’ history teacher, Miles & Sawyer were cops. AS A RESULT OF THE CRASH (a butterfly effect) Daniel was NEVER born, Ben killed his dad in the purge, etc.
Without the crash, Daniel was never there to bury Jughead, so it it NEVER got BURIED … and went off hanging where it was, due to time or some other major fight on the island.
There was no Juliet to hit it. Barricks confirm Dharma was clearly on the island at sometime and that was when they evacuated due to Jughead – but it could have been ’77 or just as well another year.
Radzinsky may or may not have completed the Swan … but he wasn’t pressing ‘the numbers’, because there never was an incident to require it done. (He may have just as well gone off island and had a kid who grew up to be someebody in the show – like Daniel’s mother.)
Furthermore, if Daniel didn’t go back in time is mother never would have shot him, never saw the notebook AND may have let him persue his career in music instead of pushing him towards physics with the hope he might not die!
So, we have to go back to why the crash caused their lives to be so different. The most effect would be the furthest back and that would be Jughead. (It also has the power to do *something*, perhaps dramatic. Surely if a statue can fall due to a ship hitting it the island can *pop it’s cork* so to speak.)
How else can you explain that there was no Daniel when Jack got on the plane, but when it landed safely he’s suddenly got a teen?
If the plane landed safely, they just continued on the life they had before they got on the plane.
If they crashed, everything changed to what we’ve seen over the last 5 seasons.
So, what happened first – getting on the plane! The life they had if it landed WAS the life they had, but it all butterfly-effect *poofed* away as a result of the crash.
And the island sunk – which it wouldn’t have if they didn’t crash and interfere with something that caused the island to sink.
Jughead.
Jacobs: It *could* just as well be that it didn’t go off and the island got sucked into the ocean … with enough warning to get people off the island.
The crux is Jughead caused the island to sink (either way) and all the stuff we saw the people continue-on with their lives is the lives they were meant to have.
Indeed, it could have happened before 1976 and Sawyer’s folks got died … then he (and everyone else) wouldn’t have been touched by Jacob.
That’s what I said. The Island sank because Jughead never went off because the Losties weren’t there to drop it in the hole. So when Radzinsky drilled the hole for the Swan he hit the pocket of energy and it went wild and sucked the Island down. The DI evacuted and started their lives off Island in 1977. The young losties off the Island went on to lead completely different lives because Jacob was not around to touch them.
So the flash sideways is what would happen if Jughead didn’t go off and Jacob never touched any of them.
Now im more confused than ever! i need time to think! 🙁 *rubs head*
Josh: I agree, it could happen that way, too. Except it would have to happen before ‘the incident’ in ’77 because Jacob touched Sawyer after his parents died in ’76.