Time Mistake???
Did anybody catch this??? When John met Richard again, I’m assuming they are back in 2007 since Richard said “it’s been three years since you disappeared” How could Richard go and help the shot John Locke when that happened before they crashed in 2004??? The Nigerian plane crashed before 815 crashed so that was even before 2004. Is that a mistake?????
bdiddy123, What I wondered, was how John Locke in present time, could walk Richard, Ben, etc., into a scene where ‘the island’ was obviously ‘flashing’!
I think we do not have the full story on the ‘time’ factors, and how they work.
I don’t think they are realy time flashing. I believe it is really their souls or minds flashing, not their physical bodies. I think that they are all dying in real life and their minds are “time flashing”
Why do you say that Richard gave Locke the compass before 2004? I always thought that some flashes were to the future.. for example when they found the canoe… So John flashed to 2007, and then Richard gave him the compass. What’s really interesting is the paradox: if Richard give the compass to John, and John to Richard, nobody have ever build it. And if the compass is, for example 60 years old when Richard gives it to John, then John travels back 50 years and give it to Richard, so when Richard gives it back to Locke it has 110 years.
I’m wondering how the show is going to explain this paradoxes!
The compass is not a paradox!
The island isn’t flashing. The Losties are flashing.
highbrow, I would love to read your point of view about the compass not being a paradox. I was sure that Locke did that paradox at purpose.
If it’s not a paradox, how do you explain the origin of the compass? Is it not like the egg and the chicken?
It’ll take a bit to go through all the passing the compass this was and that and I’ll do that but for now just remember this. If the compass has no origin then it doesn’t exist. There must be an explanation. If there isn’t then it isn’t a paradox, the item simple won’t be there. If that’s the case then it’s a continuity error, not a paradox.
Bdiddy,
From what I recall in the scene where Locke was shot by Ethan and then Richard shows up to remove the bullet was this:
The island for the Losties was doing it’s skipping/flashing thing…Locke is skipping, ‘visits’ various points in time, one being where Ethan shoots him. Right after this, Locke flashes…but he was shot. This flash took him to 2007 – kind of like in one flash we see them on the outriggers where Juliet shoots at people in the other boat, this too was them flashing to the future. So, Locke flashed to the future, Richard came along and helped him, then Locke flashed again.
So in this new episode, Locke knew (‘the island told’ him) that they (Locke, Richard and tagalong Ben) needed to go have that interaction. So ‘flashing’ Locke appeared, Richard did what Locke told him to do, which then made Locke do what Richard told him to do, which then feels like the chicken or the egg conversation.
I don’t think there was any mistake here. Just another discussion point/issue tying into the big question posed about fate and destiny…and who is even ‘deciding’ what someone’s destiny is.
Boy oh boy, these writers had better do one more pass before the end of season 6 Ã and show us where that damn compass came from !
To the OP: I think we are to assume that this nigerian plane was a different one than the one that crashed that Boone and Locke found. Therefore it could have crashed in 2007 when Locke saw it during his flash, and then Locke/Richard/Ben saw it for the first time in 2007 when Richard pulled the bullet out.
If you think abotu it, the setting of this plane is different than the setting of the original Beechcraft plane, as it sat upside down on top of the Pearl station after it fell from th cliff. I think this is a sifferent plane entirely.
when locke was flahing through time, he went to 2007 were richard and Company presently are
are there 2 compasses now? I think the writers have bypassed a major law of physics: Conservation of Mass/Energy = that mass cannot increase or decrease. Having 2 lockes in the same place is not possible because that would be adding mass.
What I don
lostfan381, I think I took this detail not as an error, but as reinforcing the idea that the timeline is already set, and that their actions are set. I feel like although some of the losties timelines aren’t linear, their events have already happened on the general timeline, just not on each individual lostie’s timeline. does that make sense? if thats true, then all the actions they are trying to do to stop them from landing are actually what directly made them land in the first place. Therefore in Locke’s timeline he hadn’t gone back, died, and come back yet, but in Richards he had. Its already all written, just happening in different orders for everything. Nothing will be changed by the attempts at detonating the bomb.
Lostfan381, it was a flash to the future. So we saw the other perspective on it last night, which was Locke sending Richard there. We just didn’t see that during the flashes. But OUR first time seeing it was Locke going to the future, but us the viewer, not knowing that it was a flash to the future.
They were not limited only in traveling to the past when the flashes were occurring… by now in the season, we know that we saw two future flashes:
1) Richard getting the bullet out of Locke’s leg
2) Sawyer/Juliet/Locke on outrigger being pursued and getting shot at by unknown people in another outrigger. We know it was the future because the Ajira water bottles were in the outrigger canoe when Sawyer & co. took them.
Hope that helps.
I believe that yesterday’s revelation that the Island told John to bring Richard to that point shows us that there is a ‘divine’ plan in motion designed by the Island. Jack was put in motion to chase the bomb and he will eventually cause the ‘Incident’ that crashes their plane to start with, otherwise how could they be there in the past to have these interactions. I believe the difference between Locke and Jack is that Locke is aligned with the Island and thereby is being communicated with and Jack is running around willy nilly as usual thinking he knows what he’s supposed to do but is going ass backwards like when he got them all off the Island in the first place. That’s why the Island doesn’t communicate with him. He firmly believes his role, but he is the antiLocke. It’s ironic that he finally believes in all the destiny stuff but he’s got it backwards… He’s a bit of a pawn; it makes his character kinda sad, struggling to change something, so desperately clinging to a life he was so desperately running away from in the first place… Jack seems to be doomed to be miserable no matter what life offers him. He always thinks he’s in control of his destiny and thereby in constant frustration. Locke has (for the most part) always accepted his guided role as a controlled entity and is at peace with himself….. Interesting ego id thing going on….
The first time Richard sees the compass is when John gives it to him in 1954. He shows it to young John circa 1960. He keeps it till 2007 when he gives it to John Locke. It disappears from existence, just as it appeared into existence in 1954. It was created in 1954 from a time flash, and left the same way in 2007. I’ll just say if this is a violation of anything than the whole season is a violation. These are the rules that Darlton has given us for time travel.
If something exists without ever being created, then that is a textbook example of a paradox.
Definition of paradox:
1: a tenet contrary to received opinion
2 a: a statement that is seemingly contradictory or opposed to common sense and yet is perhaps true b: a self-contradictory statement that at first seems true c: an argument that apparently derives self-contradictory conclusions by valid deduction from acceptable premises
3: one (as a person, situation, or action) having seemingly contradictory qualities or phases
If you are saying the compass is not a paradox, then you don’t know the definition of paradox.
A paradox is something that is true even though it cannot be true.
Ok Highbrow…. i gotta question on your comment. maybe there is a simple answer but i just have to ask. you said in an earlier comment that, “the island isnt flashing”, “the LOSTIES are flashing”. Ok, if this is true, and Locke gets shot in one time period, then flashes to another time period, how could he still be shot???? If it is truly the person flashing and not the island flashing, and Locke flashes from one time period to another time period, then he would not have the gun shot wound that he sustained in a different time period. He might have the scar, but he wouldnt still have a bleeding gun shot wound with a fresh bullet still in it would he????
If he goes to 1992 (or whatever) and gets shot then goes to 2007 he’d still be shot… he’s still the same John Locke only aged by several minutes. When he went to 1992 he didn’t actually get younger… we’d have known if he did because he’d have that “I’m going bald but I’m in denial about it” hair again… He goes from one time to another, aging normally relative to himself, so if he travels in time after he got shot he’s still shot.
Ok…. sounds like a pretty good explanation. I will go with you on that one for now…. but i think i will do some research. But wait, something else i just thought of… What about the healling power of the island. Rose was cured, Locke could walk again, etc… If these medical conditions were wiped out by the island, or because they jumped to a time prior to when they had the illnesses, then how come a gun shot wound wont just heal up? I know you have all the answers so i am just trying to stump you on something…. just a cool little game to help me pass time at work. LOL
The producers specifically said that there is no time travel in this show. Their minds are traveling, not their bodies. What the movie “jacob’s ladder” with Tim Robbins. In it his mind was doing the same thing when he was dying. I believe this is the case with LOST
How could their minds time travel to a place unless their bodies are there? We saw Desmond time travel in his mind but he only went back to where his body was (points in his own life).
Locke didn’t heal up right away, that’s true. But if you jump up to the point where he fixed the donkey wheel was he really showing the effects of having been shot in the leg? I think he did some pretty remarkable healing in that time…
Sorry, in my last post I should have typed “watch the movie” not what the movie.
Highbrow, their minds are not time traveling, they only think that they are. What they are really doing is remembering memories or creating new thoughts based on the others thoughts that are also dying.
So the Locke that showed up at the plane in 2007 with Ben and Richard… was he only imagining it? Was he not really there too?
They are not really imagining it, they are creating it.
Think about it….nobody knows what happens to your mind when you are dying. The possibilities are endless at what the show can do with this.
Watch “Jacobs’ Ladder” with Tim Robbins. You will see that this movie and Lost are exactly the same.
I doubt that’s it. I don’t think they’re going to explain that the show has been people creating all of this with their minds. I think that’s even been officiallly debunked.
“In an interview with UGO in the middle of Season 4’s production, Damon finished the interview by stating “The one thing that Carlton and I are steadfast on saying over and over again, and that we’re not lying about is that the show is not all a dream. It’s happening in the real world, there are real stakes, you’re not going to get to the end and cut to black and suddenly realize that this was all sort of a fantasy. That’s the only thing that we sort of need to get out there in the world, because it does diffuse a lot of wacky theories.”
The producers said that it is not purgatory. Purgatory is when you die and wait to go to heaven and hell. They die not die yet. They are dying and their minds are thinking thoughts. It is not a dream. It is real. They only think that this stuff is happening.
Did you read the quote I posted? They did say it wasn’t purgatory but they also said it wasn’t other stuff too. They said that it’s happeneing in the real world and that the stakes are real.
i appreciate everyone on this sight and respect their theories as well. however saying that, i really dont think, after all these years, and all of the people that watch this show, that the writers would make this all about “thoughts”, and or “memories” and all that stuff. i just have to believe that the writers and producers know that they way too much at stake with this show to just have it flop at the end with, oh, this has all just been in their minds….. dont see them taking that risk. but i still respect your thoughts and theories…. thats what this site is here for and why it ROCKS!!!
You don’t think dying is the real world?????????
So, if it is time travel, the producers gave that away the first episode of season five. Why would they do that with two whole seasons to go??? The producers can’t tell you what it is or isn’t because that is what makes the show so interesting!!!!
i cant speak for Highbrow, but i think what he means by “real world”, is that its not at all mind-based. yes, there have been flashbacks and flashfowards throughout the show, but i believe they have been strictly to fill the viewers in on our characters and how they got there and how they relate to the rest of the show,etc. i just think that he is saying that the writers and producers have ruled out this being anything relating to dreams, which i believe would be the category best suited for your theory. you cant honestlty tell me that you would be happy with the show ending by having everyone dead and realizing that they hadnt actually lived through all of these things.
They are living through this. It is NOT a dream, it is a thought. Thoughts are real. I would be disappointed to see that everyone dead, but I don’t believe the producers will do that. I think the time travel theory is a pretty lame idea if that is what it turns out to be.
I respect everyones opinion too. My ideas change alot about what is happening, but the only that stays the same is that death is the most unknown subject in the world. Death really does happen. Time travel does not.
But, I don’t really know… whatever the show turns out to be it will be awesome, though. Thats what makes this show the best ever.
By the way Julietlover, I didn’t know that they had plastic surgeons on the island. It seems Juliet’s boobs grew pretty quickly on the island. Maybe that is what it is…jack is really a boob job doctor! 🙂
I for one thoroughly enjoy Juliet
Juliet is hotter than Kate, but i wouldn’t kick either out of my bed. Kate’s got a better ass.
I agree. I like when they wrestle. We need a pillow fight.
In jello or mud.
i think what we have to realize is the fact that this show has become, well i say has become, but it may have always been sci-fi. again, by saying “real world”, doesnt necessarily mean that this show is supposed to be all non-fictional, thats why its a tv show. but if the producers have ruled out dreams, and purgatory, what makes you think that they would go just down the street to “thoughts”? i for one agree with you on time travel being a lame way to go on the show, as i have never been a big sci-fi person. but i just dont think they would build the show around thoughts of the characters, but hey, its not like ive never been wrong before. something i read gave me the understanding that this season was based on time travel but that once this season is over we will not see anything like it again.
oh yea, i forgot about the most important part of this discussion…. Juliet’s boobs are a gift from Jacob…. her “sugar daddy”
Yes, the producers have said in interviews that time travel on Lost is soon coming to an end. And I for one won’t miss it, even though I’m a huge sci-fi geek. It has contributed as much as it can to the mystery of the show… anymore would be overkill.
bdiddy123, respectfully, it’s obviously not about what’s real and what’s not. Ben and Locke transported themselves from a frozen donkey wheel to the middle of the desert. I think we need to suspend dis-belief here and accept people have been doing some time traveling as well.
As for the compass; it’s quite an important object. Does it represent the constant or the variable? It’s in a loop of it’s own.
And Polavision, technically the 2 Lockes are not in the same “place”, just the same time. two different things.
And lastly, and most important, …Juliets boobies… ah yes. that is all.
rlsundberg…. maybe the compass is an example of art imitating life? Maybe the first time they showed it just as a sort of *tease* in terms of “hey this could be a paradox, whoa-ho” and then everyone has been making such a big deal about it, that now they just dangle it in front of our faces to see how many people freak out. Maybe there’s some more important things going on than the compass and it’s just a distraction… like a good magic trick… “watch the compass, which hand it is in? where did it go?” and meanwhile there is something right in front of our faces we aren’t seeing?