Ben and Mrs. Hawking’s conversation
This has been mentioned a few times (by lostfan) in other theories, but I decided to post some information here for discussion about Ben and Mrs. Hawking’s conversation at the end of episode 2 this season.
The scene starts with an unknown character (Hawking) writing math equations on a chalkboard in a dark room. We see a pendulum making markings (co-ordinates?) on the ground, and Hawking goes to a computer (more on this later) and types in a few things while looking at a map. On the chalkboard there is a picture of a (the?) island. She then hurries up stairs through a door to a lighter room where Ben is lighting candles. Still with her back turned to us she walks to a big cross, and then tells Ben she has some news (letting him know he has 70 hours to get everyone back).
So we know that whatever happened downstairs, Hawking figured out a timeline of sorts.
Now, we know that there is a Dharma station called The Temple, and after watching the scene again, I do not know how much more you can make a place look like a Temple. Sure this could be a coincidence or a trick played on us, but some support:
– The computer Hawking was using had the exact same green font that we see in the hatch Station, and the same green font we see on the computer Locke used in the house Mikhael stayed in. There is no doubt that this is an island/Dharma computer.
– One of the last lines Ben says is: “So what happens if I can’t get them all to come back.” The part I want to emphasize is the “come back”. Had this discussion been OFF the island, I’m sure Ben would have said “So what happens if I can’t get them all to go back”, as when you say “come somewhere” you are referring to somewhere you are. Not sure if my English is failing me here, but regardless, I still agree with lostfan that the conversation is in the Temple Station on the Island.
My issue now is isn’t Ben “banned” from the island? How is it that he can just be chilling in the Temple WAITING for news on how long he has. He should be trying to work his “get-back-to-the-island” magic. Something doesn’t add up.
To go a step further here, Ben also says “I lost Reyes tonight”. In the scene just before where Ben confronts Hurley in his house, Hurley confesses to the cops stationed outside. We know this, but what doesn’t seem to fit for me is that when Hurley runs outside, the sky is dark. So how is it that from then, Ben is able to find the correct means of getting back to the island, finds out the correct location of the island, and gets there in record time? Since he doesn’t tell Hawking “last night” he obviously is there before the ballpark of 4:30 am, about the time people generally start referring to their night as “last night”. Also, Ben is wearing the same shirt in both scenes, so I want to rule out that this conversation could be a past one, although the “losing Reyes” part should be enough to say that the Hurley-Ben conversation happened the same night as the Hawking-Ben conversation.
So ultimately how does Ben waive his Island ban, and manage to get to the island-wherever and whenever it is- in a time faster than a plane could take you?
Supposing Ben isn’t banished from the island..
The only information we’ve been given about Ben not being able to return is when he told Locke that whoever moves the island can’t come back, and the implication that if Widmore hasn’t made it to the island (we know he was there in 1954) then neither will Ben.
I imagine that telling an already confused John Locke that after moving the island you’ll wake up in Tunisia three years into the future and find it near impossible to return, would cause more confusion than a simple ‘If I move the island, I can’t ever come back’. Ben seemed pretty rushed for time, maybe even just didn’t want Locke to be expecting him to return.
So I’m based in Leicester. If I was allowed to go to Skegness for the weekend, and I’m talking to the driver who wants a full car in case we break down and 4 people aren’t enough to push (God help us all), but there’s a problem..
…And I say: ‘The big guy wants to go to this party in Leeds that weekend, what if I can’t get him to change his mind and come to Skeggie instead?’.
He would either be going to Leeds, or coming to Skegness with us.
I think you’re right about the Dharma equipment that Hawking is using though. The others have been seen using Dharma facilities before. I’m just not convinced that it isn’t off-island, for the same logistical reasons you pointed out in your theory.
Cappayne- Exactly what I have been wondering. Now just a theory here perhaps someone can help back it up but I’m thinking Ben and Mrs Hawkings are in The Temple on the island in that scene. Ben referred to it as the only safe place on the island. My belief is that Ben knows the outcome of everything which is why he didn’t do anything when Alex was shot. To him she was alive in the future. After this he said the rules have been changed. I think he has been freely travelling to and from the island perhaps from the temple and this explains his quick appearancess here and there. Also it explains how he would know that Jin is alive and how he may prove it to sun? As for him being banned from the island well he is after all a liar and will do anything to serve his purposes.
If there is a way to get from the usa and go right to the temple, why would ben have everyone meet him at a boat? And isnt Mrs Hawking (aka Faradays mom) in Los Angeles? Does Suns baby have to come back to the island too since he was there? In the womb but still technically there.
I am not sure that mrs. Hawkings is Faraday’s mother. I think that ellie from 1954 is mrs hawkins but how do we know she is also faraday’s mother. Yes Faradays mother is supposedly in la.
I think Sun’s baby could not have been born without leaving the island but I am not sure she would have to return to it as she wasn’t conceived until after they arrived.
Yes I don’t know why Ben would have them meet at a boat then. I haven’t worked out all the bugs yet. I need help. haha
I guess Wednesday should help this discussion progress.
I believe the Temple Station is a station OFF of the island. Kind of like a link to the mainland/present. It could be based in Los Angeles, one of the possible portals to the island (idea from another theory site). Note that Tunisia is also a portal too, not only because Ben wakes up there, but Charlotte also finds a Dharma Polar Bear’s remains in Tunisia (Season 4 if I recall). If this is true, then Ben IS NOT on the island. The Temple must be a sort of “portal” locating station. We’ll have to wait and see.
Interesting thought Eggo. This would explain how Ben got there so fast. Maybe this “boat” that Ben wants them all to meet at is near, or even IS the temple?
Actually, just looked on Lostpedia and it says, “The Temple is an as yet unseen location on the Island, that according to Ben is a day and a half’s walk from the Barracks” So the Temple is definately ON the island.
First of all, I would go all in that Ellie is Mrs. Hawking and that she is also Daniel’s mom. I think we’ll find out very soon that Ellie is short for Eloise, which means that Daniel named his rat after his mom. Also, on their way to the H-bomb, Daniel says to Ellie “you look so much like… someone I used to know.” I’m sure he would have said “my mother”. Ellie seemed to react like Daniel was trying to hit on her when she sarcastically responded with “you mean, someone other than the girl you just professed your love for, well aren’t you the Romeo.” Daniel then says “far from it, believe me” indicating that he definitely didn’t have any romantic interest in Ellie.
Anyway, that was slightly off topic. I think that the Temple is on the island, but is also a portal to the mainland, which is how it could be a “safe zone” from the time skipping. I agree that the conversation between Ben and Mrs Hawking in the church basement was in LA and not on the island, and that the church is probably the other end of the portal from the Temple (or one of the other ends, maybe you can get to Tunisia through the Temple as well, or other locations we haven’t found out about yet)
This is a very intriguing theory in my thinking since coolbeans mouse paradox.
Lots to chew on. And more to come I’m sure.
Some great points made by all!!
I might be forgetting something but do we even know what Daniels’s mothers name is yet? Please refresh me on that.
The temple is definately on the island as referred by Ben. He told Alex to hide there before she was captured. I agree if traveling from the temple then there definately would be another like it where ever traveling to. Ben traveled to tunisa after turning the wheel though ,so it would be odd that there would be two places on the island from which to travel from
i dont think ben is banned, isnt he just not allowed to come back? i think allowed meaning by the laws of time, because the island moves in time, as does ben, leaving him not “able” to come back.
the O6 maybe represent some universal clause due to the way the island is traveling and them leaving and whatever else..ah i talk to much sometimes
I disagree that Tunisia is a place that the Temple can take you. Why would the Temple take you somewhere where the one who moves the island is (sometimes, perhaps) sent to?
i agree with that…you know what would be good?
…with you not agreeing cappayne, is what i was referring to
ohh ok, and what would be good?
if after all the ajira airways, or whatever crap, i wont get suckered into all that again, the runway, hearing about flying lessons, and seeing Des sail around on a boat….if they went back through conceince time travel
and btw..i respect you more for not giving a crap about what i thought unless i agreed with you