Ben…all seeing, all knowing—Locke Reincarneted
Sayid putting a bullet in Little Ben, craziness…But maybe this shooting, even though it will not end up as death most likely, could be the spark that starts the war/battle, that results in the purge.
Ben said he was already communicating with the hostiles at this point, so why not. Im guessing he’s one of them officially, whether Dharma is aware or not.
Ben now knows the Losties are not supposed to be in 1977, and if he tells the ‘others’ and Richard, this could be the spark of the war.
Most likely Jack will refuse to save Ben, or Sawyer will just not allow it.
I think Juliet will save Ben, this is why in the future, Ben takes care of Juliet, brings her to the island, she is his…his savior, literally. Bens pawn. He needs her to exist.
Ben could possibly be the only person on Lost who knows how this all plays out. I say Ben only, because he is the only one truly experiencing everything.
Yes, the episode was centered around Sayid, but Ben has been with the Losties the whole time.
In ’77, young Ben is with the leftover losties, and in 2007, Old Ben is with the off island losties.
He is living both timeperiods at the same time. And now, could possibly be the only one about to be in the same time period as two different selves.
Bens motive is given away to me here, on the subject of Juliet.
He is not infatuated with her for the good of the world, or island, or even his people. He Loves her, because she saves him. It is all about him.
He knows this, just like he knows everything. Some things may suprise him, but it somehow involves rules which have yet to be explained. These few gems that truly catch him off guard, are what makes me believe change now has already existed on the island. Bens suprise…Its hard to come by, and if you cross him, he will ultimately cross back.
Ben has been down this road, he knows the ending. It may only be Locke that can stop him at this point.
And even then, is Locke now a piece on Bens gameboard, was he always, or does he know a little more than Ben thinks?
Locke is special. He says so himself. He knows he is because people have told him this his whole life. Only to have life, not want it to happen. This was Lockes suffering, his walking of the path.
Sawyer asks Locke why he doesnt go tell himself not to open the hatch in an earlier episode during timetravel.
Locke tells him he cant. He needed the pain. He was supposed to suffer. Suffering is a huge part of ancient Buddhism. Much of Lost delves into this line of thinking. They all suffered. Had nothing, at least nothing that could make them truly happy.
The island presented opportunity over and over for characters to live a life on island, and experience this happiness for a very long time. They had their opportunitiy to play house, and everyone wanted to leave, to go back to nothing they had off island.
Even after they lost everything off island, they still were hesitant, it took images and ‘ghost’ like misualizations to convince some. Ben and Locke others.
But these two men, they know more. If the island was a living thing, then Ben is the brain and Locke is the heart and soul.
Locke being special goes back very far. No, not the visit from Alpert in the hospital, or the test at his foster home. This is so clear. Even Richard took note.
John Locke is special for a reason that the basic laws of timetravel dont play to. He is a person, who has shown, at a young age, he is destined to be on that island.
And all it took was some crayons and paper.
Johns drawing of Smokey…
http://lostrecaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/05092008902.jpg
If this isnt evidence, that reincarnation exists, than I dont know what is.
I think this is one of those science/faith ties, that we are supposed to pick up on.
Showing us, how they can coexist without debating which is real, or better, or ideal.
Showing us that miracles do happen. Maybe this happens to everyone, maybe Lock is just very special.
Regardless, I think Ben is in control, he ALWAYS has a plan, you know.
Hate Ben all you want, but his evilness, for better or worse, may have come from living a life far worse than any of the Losties we have seen thusfar. He may have a purpose as great as John, or a purpose to stop something John is trying to do.
AMAZING EPISODE, I love a good Linus story.
The Benipulator will strike again.
Very interesting thoughts AES, it is funny how none of them really had anything to go back to and if they just appreciated and stayed on the island everything would probably be fine. I’m pretty sure most of us would kill to get onto that island.
How much did you cover in this little post AES? Seriously?
I too thought about little Ben and old Ben being on island at the same time, in different ways and being another “constant” in living two different island timelines, with the Losties nonetheless…and I’m using the word the same way I did when referring to Christian in an earlier post…
I like the connection between Ben and the Others and the possible war that came/is coming?!? So how deeply connected is the war/the Purge/the Incident, anyway?
The connection in my opinion runs deep.
But the meat of this story is Ben.
Whether change occures and changes his mamories, or this is just how the story goes/went, it shows us, that everything we are seeing, Ben already knows.
He always has a plan for a reason, and I believe this is it.
He has experienced every aspect of this.
Johns Drawing shoes he has at least a memory of it stuffed in his subconcience somewhere.
This is why I percieve two different types of this spontanious memory.
The kind you recieve during change of the past. And the kind the special discover through reincarnation.
The ‘smokey’ drawing on Johns wall shows that one way or another, John remembers something about the island, somehow.
I like your theory A.E.S., but I still believe Desmond is the key, not Ben, and not John. Also, even if Juliet takes care of little Ben I think Jack will save Ben as everything comes full circle.
So here is my take
AES, love your spin on Ben! You know Ben is the one character that hold so much mystery, and is somebody who is next to impossible to figure out! He is my ‘challenge character’ on Lost.
I just briefly touched upon something in kimberly’s post, about Ben. This may have been Ben’s ultimate sacrifice, placing himself in the hands of Sayid! A man he has helped groomed as a killer. A man he is ensuring will be on ‘the island’ again, attempting to kill him.
There is no doubt in my mind, that Ben knows this is what will happen. Once again, why does he want/need this to happen? There are a few possibilities, but what intrigued me, was Ben’s resilience for suffering pain himself, with little to no affect.
Is Ben to be viewed as the one true ‘Martyr’ on ‘the island’. Perhaps, it’s time that we looked deeper into Ben’s own suffering to understand what his motivation is.
We are aware he has his own agenda, and realize part of that agenda is extremely self serving, but to what end?
John Locke, is different, and he is special. Is John the ‘balance’ that is required on ‘the island’? Or, will John Locke’s idealism stand in the way of achieving the proper balance required.
And, is that why Desmond will be so important in future events. Will he be the person who sets everything and everyone back on its proper ‘course’.
Great thoughts, AES!
Dabs, we are exploring the same thoughts on separate posts. Could this be some great metaphor for separate timelines? 🙂
I’m slightly kidding…
Dont kid about that Kim, did you see the book Ben gave Sayid?
Ben has the ability to lactate. Did the island give him this ability? Kind of useless, what with the preganancy issues…
Saw it and missed it and knew it was going to be important!
Do tell, since I’m not going to have a chance to rewatch until later…
I too think Ben knew he was sending Sayid back too shoot him….Sayid says you were right I am a killer. Bens had 30 years to understand that he must have said to Sayid that he is a killer. I also agree with the point about Juliet saving Ben and thats why he says you look just like her….it was his saviour. Thats why he truely loves her. I also now think even more that Sayid is Jacob now hes on his own in the jungle but according to the writers thats not possible. A truely good post AES and I completely agree with most if not all of it. Any ideas on what Sayid does now though? He can’t go back to Dharmaville for shooting Ben and can’t join the Others for the same reason. What other choice does he have? Oh n I really doubt this happens but if Ben dies that could explain the Dharma barracks that Sun is at.
What do you think of the idea of two timelines….one where Ben lives and one where he dies.
The thing with Sayid is really bugging me. Any ideas?
I really think the timeline where Ben lives is the only timeline we’re going to be dealing with. If he dies though I’m sure the island will course correct so everything works out to the same conclusions we’ve already seen.
What did the writers say that took Sayid out of the running to be Jacob?
Oh and the book was called ‘A Seperate Reality’ by Carlos Castaneda
Oh, Sayid… I think he’s going to run around in the Jungle until he’s captured by the Hostiles. They’re going to kill him. Maybe Ben will do it.
They said that by the end of season 2 we have seen Jacob but in a none speaking role.
Oh.
They didn’t really say that. It was a rumor. A.E.S. has been trying to squash it but some rumors die hard.
However when Sayid was captured by Rouseau did he spea?Because if he refused to speak that may well be construed as a none speaking role could it not?
In a podcast with Emerson he says that we’ve never heard Jacob speak and probably never will…..now im just confused :S
Highbrow are you taking the piss lol?
No. Emerson isn’t one of the writers. He’s an actor.
the voice of jacob in the cabin was cues, the image was rob kyker prop master of lost…hence emerson ‘ works on lost, but never a speaking role’…it was a joke…to make us do this…a red herring if you will…
What does taking the piss mean anyway? Where I’m from that’s not at all a nice thing to say…
Highbrow…explain this:
“If he dies though I
I only half-way thought that through because really don’t think it will happen. Ben will live. So, I don’t know… Ben is resurrected? Some guy named Bob takes his place and does all the same stuff and everyone’s memory changes? The fabric of time and space is torn asunder and everything ceases to be? I don’t know. I think Ben lives.
The thing about Sayid…
I agree with Highbrow that we could end up seeing Sayid killed off by the end of the season.
What I think is interesting about Sayid and the predicament he is in, in 1977, is that we know Sayid to be a ‘think with your heart’ kind of guy. He’s battled it all his life, especially given his ‘special set of skills.’
So, he went along with Sawyer once he was captured, but it was only to a certain extent. Which I found quite interesting since the guy ‘sold his soul to the devil’ by being manipulated/choosing to be Ben’s hitman off island. So, why wouldn’t he go along with Sawyer in order to acclimate into Dharma, where really, his only real friends remain? His heart got in the way, forcing out any logic that would have helped him survive in the long run.
So now he’s out in the jungle. Is he going to stand by his heart some more? What will that look like – encountering the Hostiles, and most likely Widmore, and getting himself into a predicament. I just think he’s going to be his own worst enemy in a sad way from here on out.
I think he lives, too.
I just had to keep you on your toes, you know. 🙂
Just had the best theory ever will have a rough sketch up asap and I will cry if anyone disagrees with me.
For the record, A.E.S. was the first (to my knowledge) to predict that Sayid would die this season.
AES, I just asked Highbrow to draw a diagram of his perception of the timeline we are dealing with.
Have you ever tried such a thing?
Highbrow, are you…sucking up to AES???
No, just giving credit where it’s due. Makes me look like a good sport.
I do think it’s possible that Sayid being taken for a “hostile” has started the war by escaping and shooting Ben. I’m sure Horace and the rest will perceive that this was his entire point, to come to their camp, discover their secrets, gain their trust and then leave… knowing that he could always take a hostage if he had to to forcibly leave and then kill the hostage. It fits perfectly into their paranoia about the hostiles.
You are a good sport highbrow, and looking more and more right as every episode passes.
I mean in the fact that change has not officially occured. Its not to say it wont, or I dont think it will, but that it just hasnt yet. Sorry to go off topic.
This is the problem I have with Sayid hating. He hates to kill, and needs it at the same time. It is in his blood, he is and always was a killer. He’s an addict, from a mostlikely addicted parent.
He is one of the most misunderstood characters on Lost. No real connections. Well, if you pay attention, you’ll see it was Sam, Kates “Dad” that transported him after the US army captured him. Also, Kelvin released him. After they had him torture his own countryman for admitting to killing US soldiers. He has been used his whole life. Loved 3 women, and lost them in such a tragic way, one time would be too much for most. Three loves lost, and noone left. Betrayed the government he fought for and lived under, only to be tossed back once finished.
Sayid is not just a killer. He’s a product of a larger force. He has been this way since a child. No pain allowed, no remorse can be shown. He wakes up everyday, knowing, believing that he has nothing and noone. And he is correct. He kills, because I think it may be the only time he is useful. Anyone can nail shingles or lay drywall, but a reliable hitman is hard to come by these days. Its all he truly knows.
As for the people he killed for Ben. These people, in his mind, were the enemy. I for the life of me, do not understand, why he doesnt ask “WHY THE HELL, DONT I JUST KILL WIDMORE?!?”
I mean, a man of his experience and skill, come on, in and out in five minutes on a regular person. But I am assuming Widmore is protected in the same way Michael was protected.
“Did the bullet bounce off, or did the gun jam?” Tom asked.
Ben, I would imagine, is on the same type of experience. The tumor, countless beatings without flinching other than upon contact. He doesnt fear these things. How many Losties threatened his life at some point…and nothing, he is not afraid. He has suffered, he has gone through the experience to the point where he realizes, he is not going to die, the island wont let him. Or time wont let him, however you view it.
He still has work to do.
Science or faith, its all the same. A relationship is not necessary. We fight to determine what is causing this, what is causing that?. Its almost irrelavant at this point. What is relevant, is that bad things are still happening. Something is still missing. (The kids, but you know how I feel about that)
Sayid has now, nowhere to go. He has fallen so far into the rabbit hole, that he is not even trying to get out anymore. He knows, that killing Ben is going to cause catastrophy. Yes, he shot him most likely believing it would change something. But the only thing that will change from this occuring, is the truce and the peace in Dharmaville. Ben will still live to know all the things he does. John will still walk the same path. And Sayid, well, I would bet my lost dvd collection that Sayid will still be a killer.
But what he kills for, is what matters. And he killed for his friends before, and I think he will do it again. He is a man of honor, and faith, and I think Sayid will have one last spree before he says goodbye. Sacrifice is the name of the game right now. Sacrifice your beliefs, sacrifice your freedom, sacrifice your life. Sayids time is coming, and dont be so hard on him, he is as Lost as anyone on the show, and I doubt he’ll see a happy ending.
Here’s why I hate Sayid.
The characters personality gets on my nerves. He works so hard for everyones approval and I hate needy people.
I also think, with the exception of last nights episode, that the character is not done very well… by the actor, I mean.
well last nights episode with Sayid saying screw what everyone thinks, Im not playing house had to sway you a little?
I think the personality of a little bit of a needy sissy is needed for the character. I am imagining, it is some of the sad looks he carries at times when he is supposed to be tough that takes away from the character?
Either way, do tell, I’d love to dissect Sayid.
Highbrow, you’re hating on Sayid!?!?
All the ladies I know love Sayid because of his “In 3.2 seconds I can either kill you or seduce you with my big brown eyes” thing. I wouldn’t quite call him sissy.
Anyway, the whole “I am a killer” line to me was yet another ‘what came first…chicken or the egg’ thing. I do like how you’ve encapsulated him here AES.
I actually called him a sissy, it is necessary for his character. Btw, I really like the way the actor portrays him. I think that that sad, almost weak at times Sayid, is necessary to mellow the fact that he is capable of killing the way he does. We dont want him to be a lunatic, or they wouldnt want him there. It balances out his killer side, and gives you a reason to understand the actions of such a mysterious and dangerous character…
How about sensitive, is that a better word than sissy, Kim? :]
Yes, sensitive always sounds better…:)
No, he’s a sissy. A whiny little nancy boy I think some might call him. His character annoys the hell out of me. I don’t think the acting has been very good over all to tell the truth…
“He’s Our You” was the exception. I think it was great. But I think that Naveen Andrews may have stepped up his performance a bit due to the imminent demise of his character.