I started typing a response. Then I hit the back button telling myself “no, I’m not getting into this again”. Then I saw there was a comment and I read it. Thanks for drawing me in Abbot.
I don’t see any proof of a time loop here. I see evidence of time travel but travel back in time does not constitute a time loop. Sure, they’ve sort of “looped” back and their present selves are living at the same time as their past selves but this isn’t a time loop.
In a time loop the Losties would go back in time and reset. They would vanish from the time period that they left and begin existing in the past. But in the past they would have to exist as they were at that time. So Hurley and Kate my not even have been born yet, depending on the time of year. If they continued on as they were in the future (at the time they travelled back in time) then the loop would eventually end when they died of old age. There wouldn’t be too many loops since each one seems to take 30 years.
What we actually see is the Losties going back in time. Hurley and Kate either have been or will be born back in California or Iowa. Those kids will grow up as their future selves know they did. Hurley will suck down his candy bars and Kate will work ferociously at building up her deltoids. Eventually they’ll end up stranded on the island in 2004, then they’ll get off, then they’ll come back and end up in 1977, then whatever happens will happen. They’ll escape, they’ll die in the purge, they’ll get ousted by DHARMA and become Others… Whatever. If they live long enough eventually it’ll be 2007 again and they’ll be back to the time they left from. But they’ll be 60 years old, not 30. And what’s more, days will pass and before long it’ll be 2008, then 2009, then 2010. Because it’s not a loop they won’t be thrown back into 1977 again.
So unless you meant it’s a time loop as in they looped back once, I have to disagree. There are two kinds of loops I guess. One is open ended and involves going back once then continuing on into the future. The other is a closed loop where they go from 2007 to 1977 then go back to 1977 again when they get back to 2007. The first is just basic time travel which has been 100% confirmed to have have happened. The latter is worthy of being called a time loop because in that case it’s actually significant that they’re “looping”.
I’m sure my little rant here hasn’t made sense to all (if any). As we all know this is a very difficult subject on which to explain your thoughts. I guess I can just sum up and say “Time travel, yes. Time loop, no”.
jack “knowing” where to go isnt proof of a time loop. he is just following his instincts, like locke. locke doesnt know anything, but has faith and follows signs and feelings he has to get where he needs to be.
perhaps when jack gets knocked out he had a dream that tells him what to do, like locke has had many times. maybe thats also why jack knows what to do when he wakes up in the pilot…but since he is a man of science he dismisses these dreams as vague or coincidental and doesn’t talk about them.
ok this is ridiculous speculation with zero proof so ill stop.
I understand exactly where your coming from highbrow however how can you say time-loops aren’t possible but time travel is when in the real world neither is possible. If the writers want a time loop we’ll get a time loop its that simple. However i’v noticed Jack has knowledge alot like Ben about things that haven’t happened. I think at some point Jack needs to make a choice abitlike Groundhog day and if he makes the wrong one he just gets taken back to the day of the crash…..over and over until he makes the right choices along the way. We’ll never all see eye-to-eye on this subject because there is evidence for and against both sides. Thats whats so cool about Lost…..if it was that easy to work out would we all like it? We’ll never know if any theorys like these are true until the writers decide to let us know. I’d hate for it to be a loop because its like well whats the point, but thats the way the cookie crumbles.
The Groundhog theory could be what Jacob is in aswell but he’s neglected on trying to correct things now and just sits idley around waiting to restart his loop. For all we know Jack could have been through the loop 100 times already therefore knowing if he told anyone they’d think he was an other….abit like Ethan(undercover surgeon) so he decides to pretend like he’s just crashed and just places himself where he needs to be….no more no less. When he left he may have felt like he cheated by running from the island and not actually finishing what he was supposed to do. Hence going back. This could have also happened to Desmond which is why he knew the things about Charlie dying. Groundhog theory is the only way i think a time loop could exist, but like I said I hope it doesn’t.
You mention Ethan shooting Locke. Well I may be wrong here but if Ethan did shoot Locke and we are in a time loop then earlier in the seasons we would see Locke with a gun shot wound on his leg, and we don’t.
1) Either the loop has just been created and this is the first loop ‘d’ loop
OR
2) as highbrow said it’s just the natural course of events and this will only happen once i.e NOW
Wesley: If its conscience that travels and not the body the only evidence i can think of that supports this is the scene from the pilot where Jack runs to the wreckage. If his consciene travelled im sure he’d remember alot more like the hatch, the others, the radio tower, the barracks etc not to mention the people he met. Id be happy for you to point out any other evidence of conscience time travel from the other characters aswel that are in 77′
I only think the pilot is shown as it is because:
1) would you really like to sit and watch someone running round the jungle (and believe me its so easy to get disoriented) hoping to find the wreckage or
2) would you rather watch someone run out of the jungle, see the burning carnage of the plane crash and immediately start to triage people and have 1 of the best opening scenes from a Tv Show ever?
BigDave – for one im saying that it is only Jack with these memorys only Jacks conscience which is why he is the one Ben tells ‘your not supposed to leave Jack’ he doesn’t say it to anybody else because they’re irrelevant. I agree the pilot has little relevance to any of the story line now because the writers have changed the original idea so much but as you wised other evidence for this is
when Ethan & Jack fight in the rain & Jack gets knocked out, He then wakes up to Kate shaking him & says
If there was a time loop Rousseau would recognize Jin in 2004, Sayid would recognize Ben or at least the name Ben in 2004, and the losties who were in 1977 would know about much more than they do. Hurley would not need to ask Jack what his name is.
It is just ridiculous to think that the characters have already done this before. Unless they get brainwashed and have everything they know taken away, I don’t believe it.
When Jack says “i cant let this happen again” I believe he’s making a stance to fight the others and not let any of his flock 🙂 be taken away. I agree that we both could be right in the which context is correct
If you were following someone it’s natural to take the easy path up hills through woods etc etc if you could walk through somewhere or walk for miles round the feature so the chances of coming across charlie are pretty good.
Have I or have I not just stated it is ONLY JACK that I believe is in a loop. As for Rosseau and Jin like I said I believe we are in unchartered territory now because I dont think Jack has ever gotten this far before flashing back to the beginning…..so far he’s doing everything he should. Everytime he does something wrong e just flases back so the next time he knows to make a different choice at that point. I think he thought it was too eventually get him off of the island which is why he was so adament to leave when he had the chance. Maybe in the past e decided to stay and it just flashed him back. So he knew this time he had to leave thus ending up where he is today….unknown territory now.
Oh and if I have to keep repeating the same points over and over then i’m just gonna ignore the people that don’t read the post’s properly te first time because it is rather annoying.
Lol BigDave you put up a good arguement. Like i’v said before personally I hope it doesn’t happen because it would be the worst ending to the best programme ever aired. I like your reason for Jack acting instinctively….if Jack did something like that that wasn’t supposed to happen he could just flash back again. Like I said Jack could have been through hundreds of times previous and the reason he does what he does is because thats te way its supposed to be…..its like saying fate overrules choice. You still get to choose the decisions you make but if you choose wrongly it will make you choose again and again until you choose the right decision…..so basically we have free will but only as long as it doesn’t cross over fate otherwise you’ll reset….if that makes much sense…has anyone ever watched Groundhog day?????? would be much easier to know who knows what the hell im talking about and who doesn’t.
Don’t get me wrong i fully understand what your saying. And yeah i love that film “Ned, Ned Ryerson….” lol
Me to i hope it doesn’t end like that aswell, just as i hope they don’t reveal who Jacob is, i want the end to go something along the lines of ” and this my friends is the man you’ve all been waiting to meet,… Jacob” you never get to see his face then thats it the credits come!! just to see the uproar across the net and Lost sites would be fun to watch. Although 30 years down the line i’ll still be wondering “who the hell was he???” hahaha
I didn’t say that I’m saying he’s the only one who has memories out of the losties. For example Richard could also be in the same predicament. Hence why he never ages. All just speculation of course….but thats where all the best theorys start off.
I havent seen teh first season in a while, but if i remember correctly, Jack had absolutely no idea who a fair portion of the people / objects were. It knew nothing or rousseau or the Black Rock. He claimed that there was no “monster”. He didnt know who ben was, nor did he know what would happen if they stopped entering the numbers.
so you mean abit like the Sopranos ending if you watched it…..everyone expecting him to be killed in the cafe at the end and it just fades to black for like a minute haha….them endings even though we hate them are the best. Just think about it if the writers did that what are the viewers really gna do????? Stop watching a programme that has alredy ended???? We couldn’t do anyting but piss n moan about it. Depends how the writers get their kicks really.
What is interesting about what you posted is that Charlotte remembers Faraday. Which means she ALREADY has memories which result from Faraday travelling into the past. I think you give one point to “Whatever happens, happens”. This gets confusing. I bet the continuity guys on this show are going crazy by now.
I see nothing that proves an actual “Loop” only time travel. Something happening “just in the right moment” doesn’t prove anything in regards to time loops, it could very much just prove providence.
Charlotte remembers Faraday because she lived with him at the dharma initiative for a while when he travelled back in time.
The is no time loop. Taking random quotes and using them out of context doesnt prove anything. There is abolutely no evidence for a time loop and countless pieces of evidence that there isnt.
HAhahaha i read some of the comments again on my theory and i got some answers for some peep.
Wesley hanks for holdin my theory together you mostly did but as for everyone else they just kind of dismissed most info with other facts idk maybe its just me.
No one mentions the flash’s being significant to the future un-folding perfectly almost scripted.
BIGDAVe are you seriously basing your argument & reasoning for Jack finding Charlie so fast is cause its “natural to run uphill the Easy way? upHILL? ok & through tree’s what man?
As for charlie being in PTSD i understand that but you didnt explain why Desmond had to save charlie so much?? cause he should be dead. & oh Gee he is dead(kinda)now so seems like destiny to me & take in account how many times charlie almost dies??? try
ONLY if you want…read this 800+ word theory i conjured up & correct my mistakes or give your honest opinion about it…im gonna shower real quick then then burn some cells then be back shortly…im still waitin to see about our other discussion on the canoes, be prepared to lose.
if u already commented this expect me to write back this time…while most ur ideas tryin to crush my ideas are just as crazy & filled with just as many holes.
oh…the can of worms you punctured…bet ya highbrow has a can opener..lol
I started typing a response. Then I hit the back button telling myself “no, I’m not getting into this again”. Then I saw there was a comment and I read it. Thanks for drawing me in Abbot.
I don’t see any proof of a time loop here. I see evidence of time travel but travel back in time does not constitute a time loop. Sure, they’ve sort of “looped” back and their present selves are living at the same time as their past selves but this isn’t a time loop.
In a time loop the Losties would go back in time and reset. They would vanish from the time period that they left and begin existing in the past. But in the past they would have to exist as they were at that time. So Hurley and Kate my not even have been born yet, depending on the time of year. If they continued on as they were in the future (at the time they travelled back in time) then the loop would eventually end when they died of old age. There wouldn’t be too many loops since each one seems to take 30 years.
What we actually see is the Losties going back in time. Hurley and Kate either have been or will be born back in California or Iowa. Those kids will grow up as their future selves know they did. Hurley will suck down his candy bars and Kate will work ferociously at building up her deltoids. Eventually they’ll end up stranded on the island in 2004, then they’ll get off, then they’ll come back and end up in 1977, then whatever happens will happen. They’ll escape, they’ll die in the purge, they’ll get ousted by DHARMA and become Others… Whatever. If they live long enough eventually it’ll be 2007 again and they’ll be back to the time they left from. But they’ll be 60 years old, not 30. And what’s more, days will pass and before long it’ll be 2008, then 2009, then 2010. Because it’s not a loop they won’t be thrown back into 1977 again.
So unless you meant it’s a time loop as in they looped back once, I have to disagree. There are two kinds of loops I guess. One is open ended and involves going back once then continuing on into the future. The other is a closed loop where they go from 2007 to 1977 then go back to 1977 again when they get back to 2007. The first is just basic time travel which has been 100% confirmed to have have happened. The latter is worthy of being called a time loop because in that case it’s actually significant that they’re “looping”.
I’m sure my little rant here hasn’t made sense to all (if any). As we all know this is a very difficult subject on which to explain your thoughts. I guess I can just sum up and say “Time travel, yes. Time loop, no”.
jack “knowing” where to go isnt proof of a time loop. he is just following his instincts, like locke. locke doesnt know anything, but has faith and follows signs and feelings he has to get where he needs to be.
perhaps when jack gets knocked out he had a dream that tells him what to do, like locke has had many times. maybe thats also why jack knows what to do when he wakes up in the pilot…but since he is a man of science he dismisses these dreams as vague or coincidental and doesn’t talk about them.
ok this is ridiculous speculation with zero proof so ill stop.
BiNG, I really like your post and your line of thinking on this!
I will make some further observations later.
Highbrow, your rant makes perfect sense to me.
I understand exactly where your coming from highbrow however how can you say time-loops aren’t possible but time travel is when in the real world neither is possible. If the writers want a time loop we’ll get a time loop its that simple. However i’v noticed Jack has knowledge alot like Ben about things that haven’t happened. I think at some point Jack needs to make a choice abitlike Groundhog day and if he makes the wrong one he just gets taken back to the day of the crash…..over and over until he makes the right choices along the way. We’ll never all see eye-to-eye on this subject because there is evidence for and against both sides. Thats whats so cool about Lost…..if it was that easy to work out would we all like it? We’ll never know if any theorys like these are true until the writers decide to let us know. I’d hate for it to be a loop because its like well whats the point, but thats the way the cookie crumbles.
I’m not saying that time loops are impossible. I just don’t think that any of the things we’ve seen on the show supports the idea.
The Groundhog theory could be what Jacob is in aswell but he’s neglected on trying to correct things now and just sits idley around waiting to restart his loop. For all we know Jack could have been through the loop 100 times already therefore knowing if he told anyone they’d think he was an other….abit like Ethan(undercover surgeon) so he decides to pretend like he’s just crashed and just places himself where he needs to be….no more no less. When he left he may have felt like he cheated by running from the island and not actually finishing what he was supposed to do. Hence going back. This could have also happened to Desmond which is why he knew the things about Charlie dying. Groundhog theory is the only way i think a time loop could exist, but like I said I hope it doesn’t.
You mention Ethan shooting Locke. Well I may be wrong here but if Ethan did shoot Locke and we are in a time loop then earlier in the seasons we would see Locke with a gun shot wound on his leg, and we don’t.
1) Either the loop has just been created and this is the first loop ‘d’ loop
OR
2) as highbrow said it’s just the natural course of events and this will only happen once i.e NOW
Wesley: If its conscience that travels and not the body the only evidence i can think of that supports this is the scene from the pilot where Jack runs to the wreckage. If his consciene travelled im sure he’d remember alot more like the hatch, the others, the radio tower, the barracks etc not to mention the people he met. Id be happy for you to point out any other evidence of conscience time travel from the other characters aswel that are in 77′
I only think the pilot is shown as it is because:
1) would you really like to sit and watch someone running round the jungle (and believe me its so easy to get disoriented) hoping to find the wreckage or
2) would you rather watch someone run out of the jungle, see the burning carnage of the plane crash and immediately start to triage people and have 1 of the best opening scenes from a Tv Show ever?
I
BigDave – for one im saying that it is only Jack with these memorys only Jacks conscience which is why he is the one Ben tells ‘your not supposed to leave Jack’ he doesn’t say it to anybody else because they’re irrelevant. I agree the pilot has little relevance to any of the story line now because the writers have changed the original idea so much but as you wised other evidence for this is
when Ethan & Jack fight in the rain & Jack gets knocked out, He then wakes up to Kate shaking him & says
If there was a time loop Rousseau would recognize Jin in 2004, Sayid would recognize Ben or at least the name Ben in 2004, and the losties who were in 1977 would know about much more than they do. Hurley would not need to ask Jack what his name is.
It is just ridiculous to think that the characters have already done this before. Unless they get brainwashed and have everything they know taken away, I don’t believe it.
When Jack says “i cant let this happen again” I believe he’s making a stance to fight the others and not let any of his flock 🙂 be taken away. I agree that we both could be right in the which context is correct
If you were following someone it’s natural to take the easy path up hills through woods etc etc if you could walk through somewhere or walk for miles round the feature so the chances of coming across charlie are pretty good.
“After
Have I or have I not just stated it is ONLY JACK that I believe is in a loop. As for Rosseau and Jin like I said I believe we are in unchartered territory now because I dont think Jack has ever gotten this far before flashing back to the beginning…..so far he’s doing everything he should. Everytime he does something wrong e just flases back so the next time he knows to make a different choice at that point. I think he thought it was too eventually get him off of the island which is why he was so adament to leave when he had the chance. Maybe in the past e decided to stay and it just flashed him back. So he knew this time he had to leave thus ending up where he is today….unknown territory now.
Oh and if I have to keep repeating the same points over and over then i’m just gonna ignore the people that don’t read the post’s properly te first time because it is rather annoying.
OOOOOOO someones tired 😉
If what your saying is right and i understand it, then that would mean the whole show sort of revolves around Jack when it doesn’t
Lol BigDave you put up a good arguement. Like i’v said before personally I hope it doesn’t happen because it would be the worst ending to the best programme ever aired. I like your reason for Jack acting instinctively….if Jack did something like that that wasn’t supposed to happen he could just flash back again. Like I said Jack could have been through hundreds of times previous and the reason he does what he does is because thats te way its supposed to be…..its like saying fate overrules choice. You still get to choose the decisions you make but if you choose wrongly it will make you choose again and again until you choose the right decision…..so basically we have free will but only as long as it doesn’t cross over fate otherwise you’ll reset….if that makes much sense…has anyone ever watched Groundhog day?????? would be much easier to know who knows what the hell im talking about and who doesn’t.
Don’t get me wrong i fully understand what your saying. And yeah i love that film “Ned, Ned Ryerson….” lol
Me to i hope it doesn’t end like that aswell, just as i hope they don’t reveal who Jacob is, i want the end to go something along the lines of ” and this my friends is the man you’ve all been waiting to meet,… Jacob” you never get to see his face then thats it the credits come!! just to see the uproar across the net and Lost sites would be fun to watch. Although 30 years down the line i’ll still be wondering “who the hell was he???” hahaha
I didn’t say that I’m saying he’s the only one who has memories out of the losties. For example Richard could also be in the same predicament. Hence why he never ages. All just speculation of course….but thats where all the best theorys start off.
I havent seen teh first season in a while, but if i remember correctly, Jack had absolutely no idea who a fair portion of the people / objects were. It knew nothing or rousseau or the Black Rock. He claimed that there was no “monster”. He didnt know who ben was, nor did he know what would happen if they stopped entering the numbers.
Sorry dude, Jack is not stuck in a time loop.
so you mean abit like the Sopranos ending if you watched it…..everyone expecting him to be killed in the cafe at the end and it just fades to black for like a minute haha….them endings even though we hate them are the best. Just think about it if the writers did that what are the viewers really gna do????? Stop watching a programme that has alredy ended???? We couldn’t do anyting but piss n moan about it. Depends how the writers get their kicks really.
What is interesting about what you posted is that Charlotte remembers Faraday. Which means she ALREADY has memories which result from Faraday travelling into the past. I think you give one point to “Whatever happens, happens”. This gets confusing. I bet the continuity guys on this show are going crazy by now.
I see nothing that proves an actual “Loop” only time travel. Something happening “just in the right moment” doesn’t prove anything in regards to time loops, it could very much just prove providence.
Charlotte remembers Faraday because she lived with him at the dharma initiative for a while when he travelled back in time.
The is no time loop. Taking random quotes and using them out of context doesnt prove anything. There is abolutely no evidence for a time loop and countless pieces of evidence that there isnt.
HAhahaha i read some of the comments again on my theory and i got some answers for some peep.
Wesley hanks for holdin my theory together you mostly did but as for everyone else they just kind of dismissed most info with other facts idk maybe its just me.
No one mentions the flash’s being significant to the future un-folding perfectly almost scripted.
BIGDAVe are you seriously basing your argument & reasoning for Jack finding Charlie so fast is cause its “natural to run uphill the Easy way? upHILL? ok & through tree’s what man?
As for charlie being in PTSD i understand that but you didnt explain why Desmond had to save charlie so much?? cause he should be dead. & oh Gee he is dead(kinda)now so seems like destiny to me & take in account how many times charlie almost dies??? try
OK Josh, & anybody else
ONLY if you want…read this 800+ word theory i conjured up & correct my mistakes or give your honest opinion about it…im gonna shower real quick then then burn some cells then be back shortly…im still waitin to see about our other discussion on the canoes, be prepared to lose.
if u already commented this expect me to write back this time…while most ur ideas tryin to crush my ideas are just as crazy & filled with just as many holes.
? lets what you think Josh…i just figured you were writing the theory or should i say question about the canoes?