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Combined efforts…

Ok…I dont even know how to begin to clue anybody in to all that was talked about here.
This has been a combination of Dabs, Kim, Hurleybird, NMB, Benhamine and myself, putting our heads together to come up with some ideas. Many thoughts were tossed around, and somehow 5-6different theorists, not only agreed with each other for over an hour long conversation…we all contributed thoughts, that not only make sense, but correlate in some weird, we talk to each other too much kind of way. It all stems, from Dabs post on egypt and the ‘eye’, Kimberly, making some great connections between John, the Smoke monster, Richard, Juliet, and Ben. NMB, using inspiration from Kimberly words, to reveal that the connection may be on different levels. Specifically, that Locke, in a way, has always been an other. In terms of his subconcience, I believe. Hurleybirds contributed an addition to the mythology behind things, amongst others…but Im going to forget things…So, I have decided to do a little copy and paste on the conversation that led to this theory, and hope for positive thoughts…
Please first read these theories, if you havent already…

Dabs…..
https://www.theoriesonlost.com/2009/04/richard-ben-the-temple-and-the-%e2%80%98all-seeing-eye%e2%80%99/

NMB….
https://www.theoriesonlost.com/2009/04/smokeylocke-inspired-by-kimberly/

My own…
https://www.theoriesonlost.com/2009/04/just-a-theory/

..and while we are in the unity theme…Benhamine has written a beautiful theory on change, wow, imagine that…me talking ‘change’…that I believe many of the theorists included here will very much like….
https://www.theoriesonlost.com/2009/04/yet-another-time-traveling-theory/

So now that you spent the last week reading a bunch of theories, and a thousand comments…here is the conversation that went down in Dabs post…

———————————————————————————————
“inspired by Kim as well’, she was over on my post doing a beautiful job of connecting smokey and Locke’and she said something’or as I said there didnt say something’that if she would have said, I probably wouldnt have even thought of this’
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
I just read your comment over there, so start typing!
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
Kim is telling all these things about how Locke and Smokey correlate, and Im loving it’

SO everything she is saying is making so much sense, and I thought, how could this all relate somehow with dabs Egytian themed, and Smoke Monster theory’.then I saw it’

‘Come Season 2, on island, Locke stares down Smokey and says he’s seen inside the island and it was beautiful”

What was actually said was ‘I looked into the ‘EYE’ of the island, and what I saw was beautiful’..EYE of the island’and here I am’stumped’is this at all a relationship’If your ‘eye’ idea comes to play’could this as well? A hint from early in?
I dont know’help if you can, or tell me Im nuts’
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
AES, you hit the nail on the head! It was not only Locke’s comment about ‘the eye’ of ‘the island’, but ALL of the references to actual ‘eyes’ which have been made over and over again!

Jack’s eye, the eye in the cabin, the false eye found where ‘the tailies’ were.

There are numerous references to ‘the eye’ right from the beginning of Lost. I could not place my finger on it, until I started researching the subject.

As I mentioned in my theory, I was stunned how it all tied together. Through every religion from ancient to christianity, modern-day, including satanism.

I don’t make this stuff up! lol That is what convinced me I was right. When I saw the exact verse about Adam & Eve being tempted by the serpent, and why they were punished, basically for ‘seeing’, I knew I had hit on something. I think some reference has to be there, IMO.
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
Locke seems to know whats going on’or at least what is supposed to be going on’if you buy into John Locke, which I believe everyone I mentioned above does’

Could this have anything to do with his ‘knowing’ or ‘seeing’ as refered to in the book ‘Alternate Realities’ that young Ben gave Sayid earlier’or later, depending how you look at it?

Seeing is described as utilizing the energy from the universe in every way possible.
The islands core or heart, contains an infinite energy source. Could this energy, somehow relate to Smokey, who in turn, may have passed something on to Locke.

I dont know, Im trying to piece together this monstrosity, and Im going crazy’Thank you ladies, for driving me nuts ;]
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
Now there you go! In my research, I came upon more information about the creation of the Universe, and it speaks to what you just mentioned.

I cannot explain it, because it is very hard to understand, let alone for me to relate it in laymans terms. I’m just not that smart! lol
April 7th, 2009 kimberly Says:
Nice catch on the exact phrasing about the eye AES. I knew there was more, it was just feeling based, not knowledge based.

Great connection to bring it here to Dabs’ post.

I have to think for a minute. There’s something more that I think needs brought up.
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
serpant’how does the smoke monster appear to glide’I could do this all day now’.Temptation of retribution, is given by the smoke monster to Eko, if that was Smokey, posing as his brother’ Would the smoke monster not killed him if he confessed? Would it not know’he was lying?What happened to John, was the only sign of mercy given by the monster’the only time we saw him, regardless of the scenario, that he wasnt attacking, or stalking in a way. It was truly the real non violent act that we saw smokey do, unless you count when he showed a reflection of sort to Eko earlier.
‘But that didnt really work out too well in the end.
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
, Here is part of what I researched! I understand it, but can’t lay it out in terms. See what you make of it!

‘service to self’ (negative) polarity emerged due to the free will extension choice made by late sub-logoi (stars). Early sub-logoi, close to the centers of galaxies (Logoi[M]), chose ‘lack of free will foundations’ and did not extend free will to sub-sub-logoi (beings) ‘simply because they had not conceived of it’. So that the only possible polarity for beings was ‘service to others’ as chosen by sub-logoi.[N] However, since ‘entities were overwhelmingly aware of the Creator in their selves and divinely happy, and the security was total’, ‘no love was terribly important; no pain terribly frightening; no effort, therefore, was made to serve for love or to benefit from fear’. ‘Each other-self was seen to be the Creator and no other-self seemed to be more the Creator than another’. ‘Third and fourth density cycles were extremely long, entities repeated third density cycles many times over’ and ‘lacked what was considered the crucial ingredient; polarization’. ‘As the evolution progressed outward from the center of the galaxy, the efficiency of free will in intensifying the experience of the Creator by the Creator was discovered’. The first tool devised by late sub-logoi to extend free will was placing (through experimenting and refining by evolution) a semipermeable ‘veil’ between conscious (‘Matrix of the mind’: The Magician) and unconscious (‘Potentiator of the mind’: The High Priestess) minds of sub-sub-logoi, that would be in effect when they are in incarnated position in space/time.
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:

Kim, do tell’You are very inspiring tonight!

April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
AES, If we look at the smoke monster as being The Guardian of the Underworld, it is he who judges who will gain safe passage through to the other side!

Not all souls are essentially allowed in!

that is my understanding AES. It seems to be that from the moment the Universe was created this began, than travelled down to the ancient civilizations.

I wrote about the Egyptians worshipped ‘light’. This is all they had to go upon. They based their beliefs on astronomy and stars!

Then you see how it proceeds to trickle down throughout religion, to modern-day beliefs.

But, almost every religion has this faith base within it to some extent.

I am not any expert, but I can only tell you about what I researched. It’s quite fascinating. So, the writers could very well introduce ‘space’ aspects, into the story, and this thought process would still apply!
April 7th, 2009 kimberly Says:
One thing about Smokey passing something onto Locke’I think what we’ve seen in Locke since his encounter is really critical.

Locke has ‘known’ quite a bit of things: when it will start raining (nature/environment), the healing power of the island, and even a sense for where/’when’ they are located on the island. He was concerned for what was happening to the island when the island was flashing, and he was concerned (albeit, a little less) for the people who were flashing with it. This is when his ‘savior complex’ kinda kicked in – up until that point, he wasn’t so much about saving people as much as he seemed (to me) to be about the connection to the island and ‘communing’ with it in a sense.

The big issue near the end (with 815ers on island) was what was ‘supposed’ to happen, specifically with Jack.

Borderline rambling, sorry.

My point is this. Locke has known stuff, but he has not appeared to know all. If he had, ultimately, he would have known that he, not Ben, should have turned the wheel first.

The scene in the well with Christian getting Locke to understand his errors was critical. Locke had a ‘Garden of Gesthemane’ experience, where some believe that Christ wrestled with knowing his ultimate purpose (sacrificial death) and the strength to fulfill it. Locke had to figure out what was being asked of him, and to make the choice to turn the wheel and figure out what would happen from there. He didn’t have it all figured out’he was taking ‘steps of faith’, one after the other.

And when it came down to it off-island, Locke was ready to give up. Again, he only had a portion of the picture, not knowing if he had made a difference.

I think these are key elements of Locke’s experience that could ultimately be a parallel for Ben. (As we saw, he ‘claims’ he came to the island for judgment. This sounds like a man who knew he made choices, versus being ALL knowing about what was SUPPOSED to happen.)

All these references could mean nothing.

Or it could be clues that the interaction, vision that Smokey gives, is incomplete.

I have more to say on this. I need another minute. And obviously, this comment is ridiculously long!!!
April 7th, 2009 HurleyBird Says:
I’m enjoying your excange guys, but am totally confused by the sub-globual stuff. Does that mean’.since we sub-sub globs (incarnated in space/time, corpeal) that we have this veil. Those closer to the creater are essentially one with the creater, i.e. at peace, therefore they have no need for free will because they are perfectly content to serve not themselves.
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
kimberly, yes you are correct about Locke. He was, in the truest sense of the word taking incredible leaps of faith!

He did not question this, he just knew he would find his way! He placed his trust, implicitly with what ‘the island’ was showing him, and went on from there.

The mistakes he made in the traditional sense, were human! But, he placed his faith in a much bigger thing, in ‘the island’. His is what is called as ‘blind faith’.
April 7th, 2009 HurleyBird Says:
So’lose the veil’lose the innocence’kind of like my sisters wedding night’.sorry, really bad joke’.
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
Dabsi’not just light’Egyptians worshipped the sun.
All the names researched, in the beginning of the show, and the one nobody payed attention to, may have been in front of our faces the whole time.
SUN.
How good would it be, if the statue turned out to be Sun’
‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘ ‘-
*everything above this line is 100% serious’below’50/50*

Sun turns the wheel, they all end up in some ancient Egyptian culture, and Jin sees Sun for the first time’in a 50 foot statue, only to learn she has been there for quite some time, and has become a ‘god’ if you will, for appearing out of nowhere’
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
HurleyBird, all human beings have a ‘veil’, because we are not supposed to know or see, ‘all there is’.

God did not want us to! He wanted us to be made to serve others, not the self!

You got it perfect!
April 7th, 2009 HurleyBird Says:
I really like the 50/50 part.
April 7th, 2009 kimberly Says:
Dabs, ‘guardian of the underworld, not all souls are let in”

This could be interesting because in a way, perhaps Smokey reveals part of where you ‘end up’ for lack of better term at the moment. So some who get a vision for where they are going to go, then ultimately end up making choices that they think will get them there.

I don’t know if that makes sense’
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
lol HurleyBird, you got it right! You lose your innocence!

That is my theory!

AES, you may have it right about the Sun!

My research says Ra, and others such as the Sun!
April 7th, 2009 kimberly Says:
Geez. SUN!

Nice.
April 7th, 2009 HurleyBird Says:
Thanks dabs’.i have to confess, it took me 4 reads to figure out, but glad to hear I got there in the end.
April 7th, 2009 HurleyBird Says:
OOOOOOHHHHH’Kimberly. I love that. It is so ‘Taken’. Remember the little Alien kid who shows people how they are going to die!!!!
April 7th, 2009 kimberly Says:
The Sun connection makes it especially interesting considering WHO she was left with as well as WHEN/WHERE she was left while everyone else returned to a time where they had distinct purposes.

She’s with Locke/Ben while they are about to face off’
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
kimberly, according to ancient religious beliefs, that people would be resurrected on earth, once they passed through the Underworld. Those that did, had to be worthy!

Also, a sidenote. All organs with the exception of the heart were removed from the bodies. They were placed in glass jars, just like in Jacob’s cabin!

Remember that? Everyone wondered what they had in them!
April 7th, 2009 kimberly Says:
Well, not only Jacob’s cabin Dabsi, but how about Richard’s ‘request’ for Amy’s deceased husband whatshisname?
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
You could be onto something with Sun, and why she flashed differently and who she is with, AES.

I hope that makes you guys more of a believer in my thoughts, here.

I found it interesting to say the least. And, this could easily be explained, and it could also place Richard Alpert, as someone from another Universe.

The writers have full liberty to do as they wish with this in mind!
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
True kimberly! Maybe that is why. Also, in the Underworld, they travel by water through underground waterways!

H-E-L-L-O
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
‘Garden of Gesthemane”Ohh, I love the reference!

Good call indeed’

Makes the thought of Ben saving Locke out of fear of ‘sin’ make a little more sense, no?

I predicted in my theory, we may see the end of Ben’If he really does call Smokey out for judgement, and this is what its regarding, could I be correct, could Ben die in the next episode or two?
”old’ Ben at least, and will we have to count on doing something different with ‘young’ Ben, who as I sai, will probably grow quickly to keep Michael Emerson?

Yeah, Im just kind of making things up to a certain extent, but who knows?

So we have Locke, Smokey, The eye, the eye of the island, a connection, if not several, to ancient egyptian culture. Obvious Christian relations, Buddhism.

Oh, and another myth in egyptian culture, is upon death, you are judged various times’at one point, by three gods in human form, possibly demi-gods’.
‘another possible relation to Smokey posing as Ekos brother?
April 7th, 2009 kimberly Says:
Okay, bringing up Richard in this takes me to freaky Juliet.

She knows Richard is *really* old.

And, she somehow *knows* that the Others can help Ben. (Complete with FREAK facial expression to match’)

Not to overcomplicate this, because I think the Ben/Locke/Smokey thing is serious – but it will be interesting to see what becomes of Juliet’s knowledge’
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
AES, you have gotten it all right! I certainly hope you will write a theory on what you just stated!

I really wanted to post a lot of information, but it was just so long, I didn’t even know where to begin!

I am now passing the torch over to you, my friend! I know you will do it justice!
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
Hurleybird, nice job!

Btw..I like a little 50/50, Im a gambling man ;]
‘you have to live before you die’I may not be right, but at least I was brave enough to say it’or is it stupid enough?’either way’I said it.
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
kimberly, I know Juliette knows something and I have always said that! But, I just can’t think too much about her right now!

AES, that is what life is, Risk! Without it, there is no gain!
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
Oh god’Ummm, yeah, Im not the most popular person here right now, and I dont think this is something that I want to take a chance at getting ruined’.but to make it easy, there were several of us combined on this, and being the problems of late, I would say a ‘combined’ theory could serve purpose in a little unity on the site, not to mention it seems the rest of the season is headed in the direction of the same concept between the Losties and Sun, Locke, Ben, Des, and the Kids’
Copy and paste anyone?—and that is what I did!
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
Wait’I have something to add about Juliet’damn it Kim’.stop making me think!
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
Juliet’shes an idiot’Dont get me wrong, Kates more of an idiot, but Juliet knows she is being one and she still does it’At least I think she does, and is.

First, the mark on her back. I do NOT think, or have I ever thought, that it was in any way, to identify her as a trader’if anything, it is to identify her as an other, or something along those lines, at some point.

And, the conversation between John and Sawyer after John caught up with him and the other leftover losties, during time travel.
Sawyer asked John who shot him. Juliet quikly interupted, and advised they move on’or hump Sawyer, or something like that’but regardless, wouldnt she want to know who shot John? He seemed more than willing to answer’but she didnt even let him try.
I assume, she knew this, because the time when it took place could have easily been after she arrived on the island, and Ethan may have told Ben, who told’an idiot.
I bet that she has some sort of deal or scheme worked out with Ben.
Maybe she knew she was supposed to save him.
Maybe she knew Ethan shot John.
When they branded her, they made sure Jack saw it, and it hasnt been talked about since. She is a rat, like Ben. She may realize it, and actually be sorry, but I do think she knows a lot more than assumed by our Losties.
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
shhh, dont tell anybody’
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
I love what you say about Juliette, AES. I think you have her completely pegged!

The mark is to identify her in some way, later on! I have never trusted her ‘sweet affability’.

She has always been with Ben, IMO
April 7th, 2009 dabiatchishere Says:
Anyway, I hope I provided you with some food for thought!

April 7th, 2009 HurleyBird Says:
AES’.totally agree about Juliet, but then again I have gone through this with most of the characters. Like them, hate them, like them, hate them’.feel that darn pendulum in freaky ladys church’.but, if she did stop John from saying it was Ethan, what was the point. I don’t see how Sawyer knowing that would change anything. Sorry, said the c word.
April 7th, 2009 kimberly Says:
Yep. How do I emphasize that with some flair, so more like, Heck Yeah!

I CONCUR.

Wouldn’t it be interesting to see the inside of Smokey’s temple and to see that mark?

I trust Juliet about a fraction more than I trust Ben.

So wait, seriously.

I now wonder how many people have had Smokey encounters that deem them ‘an Other’ forever.

Ben.

Juliet.

Locke.

Hmmmmm’.
April 7th, 2009 HurleyBird Says:
So, smokey didn’t smoke kate because Juliet was with her? Remember when they were in the rain, wrestling and had to hid in the trees. Didn’t smokey scan kate at some point? May be confusing two different scenes. It’s very late.
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
Dont get me wrong, he tricked her to get her there, but there is something else between them’I know she was an other, but she uses her ‘Other’ skills way too much.
She cares about who is around her, and always has to make someone feel sorry for her.
I admit, there have been times when she suprised me, like letting the losties know the others were coming, which set up the shooting of the dynamite, and blowing up tents, and others getting killed’and she did shoot whats his face to get Kate, Sawyer, and Karl free’but’I just dont trust her’
Of course I have another theory that Kate is actually Annie, and Juliet turns out to be the good guy, with Kate all along being on Bens side’but I am indecisive and over imaginative sometimes so who knows’
April 7th, 2009 A.E.S. Says:
No, not two different scenes, I think Dabs covers the ‘trees’ in relation to smokey in her ‘Smoke Monster’ theory’
if you check Lostpedia’the reliable source of info that it is at times’I know’it says something regarding the trees as protection too.”
———————————————————————————————-

….And thats where we are…so many good thoughts, and the main reason we want this to exist, is to discuss these things in a fashion that WE can build upon them…
Feel free to hop in, add or debate…just remember…we teamed up for this one, and its not the normal theorist defending themselves…we have many eyes and ears to protect our investments, and much thought, time, and effort is put into this…
You dont have to agree, it doesnt all have to be true, but I would bet that somewhere inside, we have snagged a couple of theories/ideas, that with our combined effort, will come through in the end.

Share with fellow Losties

Written by

A.E.S.

Abbot Enheduanna Schwarzschild Name meaning: -Abbot: Father defined by or in religious connotation/definition. From the beginning, Lost was riddled with religious tone and it was obvious it would play some sort of role. Seemed fitting to start here. -Enheduanna: Mesopotamian High Priestess and the modern civilization’s first recorded poet. I created the name after season 1. John explaining backgammon history to Walt spawned the idea that the island may have a link yo the beginning of civilization and maybe even time itself. It was “poetic” and important to add this to my pseudonym. I needed the mother of poetry in modern civilization to match the religious “Father” in my first name. -Schwarzschild: Reference to Karl Schwarzschild and Schwarzschild Black Holes. Smoke monsters, hatches, and curing paralysis doesn’t point to black holes…but the sci-fi elements ran deep and obvious. The wheel moving the island and transporting Ben felt like it got plucked from my imagination. A.E.S.

38 thoughts on “Combined efforts…

  1. And…my damn links dont work…awesome…if anyone can post these please do…I can get external links to post, but not from the site directly?
    And No, I am not sure how NMB did it…
    Either way, read them if you havent yet, they are all very good…OH, and Dabsi’s “Smoke Monster” Theory!

  2. Emzi…if you are at all able to play Jacob, and give authorization to the other theorists forementioned, to have access at editing this post, you have my full permission…I dont know if you can do magic like that, but you own the joint, so if anybody can…
    ;]

  3. When I did my links I highlighted the name of your theory , Just a theory, and clicked on the link button in the tool bar for editing theories. But, I have done the same thing before and had it not work.

  4. Otherwise, ladies and gentlemen, have away at it, correct anything I have said, or misinterpreted, and most of all, lets put our heads together and make the writers/producers work for their money…I want to be shocked…but I will do my damndest, to not let that happen easily…Lets work TOGETHER and solve something, anything…you know at some point one of us has at least had the writers shudder, due to at the very least a close call on solving something…With enough effort, we can use seperate knowledge and burst at least one bubble.

  5. Im off to rest for the night, have at it kids, ill be checking on this early…I say, allow the wrong that we speak to occur, and learn from our mistakes…dont let this one fizzle out easily.
    Allow for this to adapt, grow, and evolve. There are many directions it can go, and we have to keep each other together as much as possible…live together…die alone…
    Who says I watch too much Lost? I dont know what you’re talking about…

  6. Hi A.E.S

    Unfortunately I can’t make it so that others can edit this post. (There may be a way, but I don’t know how… sowee) 🙂

    What I have done is edit the links for you so they work 🙂

    Some great thoughts here btw, wish I lived in the US so I could interact with all the action 🙂

    It’s Wednesday again… 😉

  7. Always on top of everything…unbelievable.
    Thank you, for the edit…
    Thanks for the quick reply Emzi, no big deal, Ill make do with this and do what I can to keep up…thats what comments are for anyway.
    ;]

    …Oh, and I know its Wednsday, but you have somewhere around twelve hours before Lost airs, so get it in here while you can…
    Thanks again, and if you havent got a chance to read the posts listed in this theory, do take a peek, they are all very good…
    Damn…wish you could jump in later, when I could stay on longer…

  8. I haven’t read all of this… It’s a lot and today is a busy day at work so I’ll read it bit by bit as the day goes on.

    When Locke saw the “eye of the island” was he talking about the smoke monster? I think he was talking about the temple. I don’t remember and I can’t go back and watch again but when Locke faced Smokey down did they show the monster turn and leave or did they just show him face to face, sound effect, end scene? I think I remember them just leaving it at John and Smokey looking at each other. I think the monster took him to the temple and made him an Other. They didn’t show that but I’m thinking that’s what happened.

    One of you might have said that already but I haven’t read it yet. To whoever said it, good thoughts! I like where you’re going with that… Maybe it doesn’t even figure into your discussion…

  9. No, no, not said yet, but still a possibility…I just think it is more on the lines of the monster, than the temple for this one…something to ponder though…hmm..

  10. Hi AES, this turned out well, and I see it has spawned some other thoughts and theories already!

    I am really looking forward to tonight’s episode because I think we are on the right track with Ben.

    highbrow, that is a good question about the smoke monster. If you think about it, in terms of the smoke monster’s ‘eye’, it does read people, (sees their souls), and then mirror back to them their past, so technically you might say it is an ‘eye’ of sorts.

    Good thinking!

  11. Highbrow, I think what we’ve seen this season though is the very significant connection between Smokey and the temple. So looking into the eye of Smokey could have been looking into the eye of the temple, in a way.

    One thing I think is interesting, if we do see that Locke was taken by Smokey at one point, successfully, or whatever that means, then I think what we see is Smokey affecting both the past and present and future timeline for Locke’s life. Lets say that Smokey turned Locke into an Other, technically in 2004, but Smokey’s ability to ALWAYS make him an Other accounts for visions/connections that Locke had as a child drawing Smokey. Make sense?

  12. I know that over on NMB’s post, a comment was made about “why did Smokey attack John…?”

    Time and time again we have seen things on this show be not exactly what they appear to be first time around…this pursuit of John by Smokey could not necessarily have been an attack to kill him as much as connection with him…whether it was looking into John, evaluating John, sharing knowledge with John, etc.

    I’ll go find that comment and paste this there, too…

  13. Yeah, I don’t doubt that the temple and smokey are connected. Actually, I’m positive that they are two parts of the same system. But I think that when John said he saw the eye of the island he saw a lot more than what the smoke monster showed him. I think that at that point Locke was taken to the temple and when he came out he was changed. He was an Other. Seems like he doesn’t know it… maybe Richard wasn’t there to explain it to him.

    Ben probably didn’t know it either which could be why he is surprised to find that Locke could hear Jacob. He thought Locke was just some dude who crashed on and island… but little did Ben know that the island, through smokey and the temple and whatever is inside it, had brought John into the fold already.

  14. I would not be surprised if tonight, or soon, in the opening scenes of “Previously on Lost…” we see that earlier interaction with Richard and young Locke when Locke had drawn Smokey…that would be so fun!

  15. highbrow, I think Locke was transformed as an ‘other’ before he ever arrived on ‘the island’.

    His mother always claimed he was an ‘immaculate conception’.

    She was deemed crazy, but……

  16. I’m not sure it was even confirmed that the crazy woman was actually his mother. Anything is possible.

    Locke is always talking about Destiny… it could be that it was always his destiny to enter the temple and become an Other and maybe he’s always had a subconscious understanding of what his destiny is…

  17. highbrow, technically, you are correct! There may be other reasons for why John Locke is so special, and connected to ‘the island’. Something which existed long before his venture to ‘the island’.

    Think about if John was connected to ‘the consciousness’ of ‘the island’ all along. Even though he may not have been aware of it, on the surface, it existed in his ‘unconscious’ or ‘super-conscious’ mind.

    Similar, yet different in the way that Desmond ‘sees’ and receives his information.

  18. highbrow, I know you are not a ‘loop’ believer in any way, and have talked me out of the basic concept, what is your take on Locke drawing Smokey as a child…?

  19. My take… he’s not an other until he goes into the temple… but it is his destiny (as he’s so fond of saying). Its always been his destiny. He was chosen by the islsand from the very beginning of his life. He has always had that connection to the island but he never realized it until he went to the island, saw what it could do (heal his paralysis) and looked into it’s eye.

  20. Too much emphasis on the eye — I just want the time issues explained AHHHH. . .which only the writers can do. All these theories are making my mind spin. I think the end of the show will be simpler than we conjecture at the moment…

  21. So you think that the drawing is simply a sign that his destiny is to be on the island…makes sense…But his destiny begins before he is born, 2 years before actually, when he is already an older man. This being said, what does that say about destiny?
    He is the reason Richard goes to see him at his birth and so on….predestination paradox, he caused his own fate, in “another life” as Desmond would probably put it.
    With this being said, what again, does that tell us about destiny and fate…to me, that is is not predetermined, and can literally be controlled by the person who has the ability….yourself.

    So what is your take on destiny highbrow…predetermined, or possibly able to be manipulated…I will assume you are going to say that his destiny was to do everything we saw, and go back in time to cause this to happen…that he didnt make his own destiny, that that is just what was supposed to happen…could be wrong…
    Im not nagging, I am a little on the ‘destiny/fate’ fence, and I dont really know which way to go…
    I preach of change, but the change could in turn, be part of a divine plan….

    Push me a direction, you usually disagree with me, but I am curious to hear it from the horses mouth itself.

  22. A.E.S. thanks for putting this together. I know this must have taken up alot of your time. Can’t wait for the episode tonight. Almost there. I was thinking about he Book of Law. This has probably been mentioned a long time ago, but I don’t have the time to read the who site, so I am just going to mention it again.

    I think that, tonight or very soon, we will learn that there is a Book of Law that the leaders of the Others is privy to. I think that is why RA was so frustrated that Locke did not take it. But RA does not know that Locke flashed before he could get his “security briefing”. I think that if Locke had not flashed when the FDW turned, that Richard would have told Locke about the Book of Law, since at that point he was officially the leader.

    How else could ben know that he broke the rules and must be judged? Because, when he became the leader after the purge, RA showed him the Book of Law.

  23. From Lostpedia… although this does not make it 100% reliable

    John immediately claims the container of the granules and inspects and claims the compass. John starts towards the “Book of Laws”, at which point Richard looks hopeful. Instead, he picks up the knife, to which Richard seems disappointed and angry. He asks John if he is sure, and after he nods affirmatively, Richard snatches the knife from his hand and takes the other items away.

  24. I think that he is upset that he took the knife. I think RA feels that he should have taken the book. He met John in 1954. John told him he was leader of the Others. Then what are the things that would belong to the leader of the Others? The island (sand). The compass (because RA knows that he gave John the compass and that it belonged to John prior to this test, it belonged to him since 1954) and, if he is leader of the Others, the Book of Law. But Locke has not seen it yet or been given it yet, so he doesn’t know that it belongs to him.

  25. Let me clarify something. What are the things that would belong to John Locke the leader of the Others in 1960ish? The book, the compass, and the island.

  26. Well, I definetly think the hieroglyphs were egyptian. I think John and Smokie, have the relationship we have touched upon, I think I saw a few eye hieroglyphs in the temple.
    I find it VERY hard to believe the smoke monster is any kind of machine or man made, seems along the lines of a god, spirit, or creature to that nature.
    We see John, as a very Ben like leader, and Ben as a mere follower to Locke…John seems to know a lot more then Ben thinks…

    Hmm, I think we are doing pretty good here so far….

  27. Hmmm, where do I sit on the destiny of John Locke… Well, I think it’s always been his destiny to be the leader of the island. From birth, not necessarily from the time he told Richard. He didn’t create that for himself it just happened that he was the one who told Richard of it. Richard was going to find out about John one way or another… So I think it was his destiny but he didn’t make it for himself. Unless we find out that Richard manipulated John later to get him on flight 815 because he had been told by John about his destiny… but I think it was fate that brought him to the island and fate brought him there because of his destiny and he was able to tell Richard about it because he was on the island… so there is a clear series of events that brings him to the point he’s at and it doesn’t seem to me like he brought any of that about himself on purpose… I’m rambling…

  28. predestination paradox…?Abbadon was obviously working for Charles, but I have to wander who else in Johns life could have actually been working for Richard or Ben

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