Desmond…Memory Tampering proved!!(maybe)
Hey guys
Like almost everyone who watches Lost i’ve been wondering why the hell noone remembers Desmond or the 815’ers in events that happened before the crash.
i wrote a theory on this a few days ago suggesting that the island tampered with certain peoples memories to evade paradoxes caused by time travel in the magic forest(the island)[my favourite sawyer quote :D]
Between all of us we identified a few cases where memory was forgotten:
With Rousseaux the main thing that jumped out at me was how on earth would you
people keep asking the question….why didnt desmond remember faraday? Bc in desmonds past it hadnt happened yet….faraday did that when they were time traveling and he got the memory in his head in his present time at the same time faraday put it there in HIS present time….while desmond lived in the hatch HIS first time around…that all didnt happen for him…but when faraday told him at the hatch….all of a sudden it was a new memory in his head
Henrygale108
The Daniel faraday that spoke to desmond in ‘2002’
Was the present version that corresponded to the desmond that remembered it. In 2002 the Daniel that saw desmond Also existed off island but this would be his past version that wouldn’t have knowledge
Of the next 5 years.
IOW the theory takes into account what you just said 🙂 read it deeper and you’ll get what I’m saying 🙂
Thanks 😉
Skil1
Skil1, I completely understand what you are saying.
These instances with Desmond involve a memory which didn’t surface until he dreamed about Daniel Faraday. The other was different as it involved him being physically present in current time, and conscience travelling (mind-jumping) to the past.
However, the cards that Charlotte showed Daniel are called Zener Cards. They are specifically used in testing Remote Viewing abilities. This was something Dharma was actively studying on ‘the island’.
I am certain there was a reason Charlotte was trying to assist Dan, to help sharpen his minds resources, which had suffered due to his experiments with Eloise.
I believe Faraday uses these Remote Viewing abilities to access some of his information to the past! That is how he is in the know about certain things, and is able to interact with Desmond’s conscience travelling.
He is quite unlike Desmond in that respect.
I think this might be where some of the confusion lies.
Hopefully, we will get to know more about Daniel Faraday, and how he is able to know and interact so effectively in the past.
Great thoughts!
Dabs the cards charlotte use on the beach with daniel were playing cards :S did I miss something?? Or is he doing something like richard did to young version of Locke?? 🙂
Thanks dabs!! Hehes
Skil1
Skil1, if I am not mistaken, the cards are Zener Cards. Check them out, by googling.
PS: I can’t recall if they were using a regular playing deck of cards or not, Skil1, however this was what Charlotte was testing him on.
If you google Zener cards, you will get the concept!
Ahh extra sensory perception 🙂
How do we know she was testing this??
Still it was only a second example.
What do you reckon to desmonds memory? :$
Skil1
henrygale108, your comment makes no sense.
your quote
“he got the memory in his head in his present time at the same time faraday put it there”
It couldn’t be the same time because Desmond remembered it in 2007, it was put there in 2002. Even if you are trying to take into account the island flashes, then Faraday “put it there” in 2004, not 2007.
Which begs the question, why did Desmond remember that at that point.
I believe it was just more convenient for the writers of the show.
A time traveling faraday tells him in 2002 and then all of a sudden he remembers it in 07…. If soneone went back in time right now to yesterday and told you something… You would now have it as a memory today… Just like desmond did
No sunshine
That means that for you someone appeared yesterday and talked to you not that it would be a new memory as the talking took place before he went back in time 🙂
Skil1
But the talking didn’t take place before he went back in time it was after they flashed
Ok here goes what um thinking.. I guess it’s my own theory… Desmond lives his life on the island and then leaves and lives 3 more years off. While the losties are time traveling faraday stops and tells desmond to talk to his mother in the future when he leaves the island… Then at some time desmonds present self is in the future and suddenly has a new memory of dan telling him that.. Desmond didn’t remember it before bc it was just now happening… Desmond had already lived those years in the had and that didn’t happen. But now faraday is telling him and desmonds present time is 2007 and it’s his first time to have this memory… This never happened the first time around when DES was in the hatch bc dan says… Let’s see if this works… Before knocking on the door.. We all agree desmond is different somehow and at that point DES is gaining a new memory from dan changing the past… With desmond things can he changed and faraday recognizes that
It was after Daniel went back in time but he spoke to the 2002 version of desmond just in order to prevent des freaking put when Daniel came to the island it made him forget about the encounter until it was no longer affecting the future or desmond IOW the consecuences of daniels chat only affect events after 2007 otherwise DES could and would have said something to dan that would have stopped him jumping through time in the first place (not that ther is a first placeas time is a loop once you start time travelling or multi dimensional space ^^)
Skil1
This is a bit off topic, but besides the whole Dan telling Des to go find his mom thing, I think the importance of Dan seeing Desmond is because before, when Desmond was suffering from his conscious jumping through time, at the end of that episode it shows Daniel skimming through his journal to an old entry that reads something like “if anything goes wrong, desmond hume will be my constant” which is why Faraday does not suffer from the nosebleeds and headaches like the others do during the time traveling flashes… If you notice, what Charlotte was going through and what Sawyer, Juliet, and Miles were beginning to go trough (which WASN’T happening to Faraday) was a lot like what had happened to Desmond before. But Daniel had previously decided that SHOULD ANYTHING GO WRONG, Desmond would be his constant, and like when Desmond called Penny and he went back to normal, Daniel Faraday saw Desmond outside the hatch and then didn’t suffer any of the symptoms that the others did. To me, that was very important, in addition to what Daniel actually told Desmond when he saw him.
I don’t have a theory for the time theory part, though, sorry.
Well, after the events in 2002, back in the days when the Hatch (Swan) was a big theme, Desmond used his magic fail safe key and caused another electromagnetic anomaly. This could of implied a certain short-term memory loss which only surfaced 2007.
@ Skil1
The test that Richard Alpert did with young Locke, was to see if Locke could recognize the compass that Old Locke gave to Alpert in the 50s. While Faraday told them to bury the Jughead.
And the Universe has a way of course correcting things, I trust that the writers will find a way of explaining everything.
I’ve always believed that Daniel being so….spacy, forgetful etz was because of his frequent/high exposure to various radiation.. However, your theory makes a lot of sense and you might on to something.. I’m don’t have any problem with Memory Tamping at all, in the world of Lost, Destiny and Course Correction, this would tie in nice.. However, as with everything Lost – there are endless possibilities, and I have one that suggest that at least Ben and Danielle does indeed remember all events. It is however way too much to post here, so I’d love for you to check it out and give me your input.. “Lockes surviving, Danielles memory and what Ben is really saying..”
Souperdtrooper
That’s what I’m saying!
The universe needs to course correct to make sure that we travel down the same ‘stream’ every time. But for the stream to be the same crtain characters may need to remember things from the past to help maintain the flow. When these mwmories involve another person both in the past and future the universe needs to make sure that at a certain point in time when the characters meet say for the second time, that one or even both don’t recognize each other or remember the meeting for whenthey rech the next meeting knowledge of the previous meeting could change the original outcome intended by the universe. That is why des doesn’t remember Daniel talking to him. But once he reaches 2007 the universe allows him knowledge of the events in1977 so that he can make sure that they pan out the same way they did in desmonds 1977 but this time he realizes that when he was young an older version of himself was affect ting events elsewhere(island)
Thanks for the critics guys
Skil1
Angivel
I also beleive that daniels memory loss is produced by radiatio. But that is simply the mechanism the universe has implied. You can’t just spontaneously forget things that may be important in the future so the universe could use anything to tamper with your memories IE radiation, electromagnetism, time, or on the island certain apparitions of ‘dead’ people perhaps.
Ben and danielle are permitted to remember the events of the day Alex got kidnapped because it would no longer interfere with the stream. The 16 years between danielle losing Alex and 815 are still a bit shady and niverse didn’t need her killin Ben on sight next time arond as he had alot of work to go towards maintaining the stream
Thanks again 🙂
Skil1
Ok, I’ll sign of on Daniels memory, but you’re getting me on Ben and Danielle.. The reason I think why Danielle didn’t kill Ben when she “caught” him is not becuase she doesn’t remember him – I believe it’s because they had made a deal behind the Losties back
Rousseau and Jin never met in the present, that’s why she never recognised him from the 80’s…
I think Miles kind of explained to Hurley what’s going on a little as far as different characters’ pasts, presents, and futures. He said that even though they were technically in the 70s, this wasn’t THEIR past. It was their present. Not everyone’s, just the people who traveled back in time.
This sort of phenomenon would explain why Danielle wouldn’t remember Jin disappearing, or why Ben would not remember the Losties when he was an adult even though he met them when he was a kid, and why Desmond wouldn’t remember his meeting with Faraday at the hatch until years later all of a sudden, and so on. Even though these events are technically a part of Danielle’s, Desmonds, and Ben’s pasts, they’re also a part of some of the characters’ presents. Therefore, these things don’t actually take place until it takes place for everyone involved.
For example, Desmond didn’t remember meeting Faraday at the hatch until a random night in the future, because Faraday hadn’t actually gone to the hatch yet in his own present. As soon as Faraday actually went to see Desmond at the hatch in his own present, the event had officially taken place. Get it?
Another example: Danielle didn’t remember meeting Jin and having him disappear in front of her when she was younger, because even though she’s met Jin before and had this meeting with him in her past, Jin haadn’t met HER yet at all, so therefore it coudn’t have happened yet. By the time it happened in Jin’s present Danielle was dead, so we never got to see her “remember” this happening.
I don’t know if it’s so much the island wiping people’s memories as it is a serisouly confused timeline of events.
Great thoughts krista!
When Jin spoke to rousseaux @ the temple it was present for both of the people who were there. What you said could be correct but it would create a paradox. Daniel met desmond in 1996 at Oxford. But futuredaniel didn’t meet DES until 2002 but they both did meet in 1996 so DES should have a recollection of that first meeting bc they are both in their corresponding timeline. I understand war you are trying to say but desmond HAS met Daniel in 1996 so he should remember him. Danielle HAS met Jin in 1988 and Jin meets danielle in 2004. Jin could never remember danielle but she SHOULD remember him. Ergo her memory has been tampered with. Sorry 🙂 I’m a time looper
Skil1
skil1, please explain me. I have many theories about what is happening to them. Just need to post them, but i dont know how
I forgot about that meeting at Oxford. I hate having whole weeks (or 2… grr…) in between episodes because every single little thing is important and I can’t remember them all when everything is so epic…
So I dont know why Desmond wouldn’t remember Daniel when he meets him again at the hatch, except that maybe he’s been trapped by himself pushing buttons for quite awhile now and maybe he didn’t amake the connection in the 30 seconds they spoke before the time flashed again.
I still think I’m right though haha. But we’ll see… I just think it makes sense that Danielle wouldn’t remember Jin when she meets him in the future because at the time Jin hadn’t ever gone back in time yet. He never met the young Danielle. If he hadn’t even met her in 1988 yet, how would anyone remember it happening? Even though it was the past, it’s still Jin’s present.
It’s a messed up island. Natural passage of time and memory seems a bit skewed
haha not a fellow Londoner by any chance?? 🙂 I know! I hate having to wait a week between eps 😉 right the thing is it HAD already happened as 1988 was the past. Jin didn’t know it yet but the events happened Before 2004 therefore they had already happened eventhough they were in jins future which is why only danielle could recognize him.
Thanks again 🙂
Skil1
Aah it’s mind-boggling 😛
Haha no I’m in Connecticut. We had to wait 2 weeks once because the season premier of Scrubs was on (seriously, wtf) and now this week’s episode isn’t going to be an episode, but a special of some sort.
The network execs know not what they do 🙁
Haha that’s a long way away ;D I know tis sad somtimes :S if u had season 4 box set they have the 815 conspiracy theory nd I think that’s what they’re showing next week :S you seen it??
Atleast u get eps on Wednesday haha I have to w8 till Sunday :S
Ps I hate john Locke :@
Skil1
I’ll remember that so I don’t post anything important between Wednesday and Sunday lol. My friend has the box set but I haven’t watched many of the special features. I’ll need to get on that 😎
Haha why o you hate John Locke?
John Locke is super cool. Ethan shot him, and I’m pretty sure hes Jesus.
And yeah Skil1 I agree with your whole course correcting theory, hypothesis. almost as though all of their time lines are linked together, that’s why it takes them 3 years to go back to the island. Because Sawyer and the other losties end up living in Dharmaville for 3 years. So the moment Faraday talks to Desmond, its in Faraday’s memory and has to be put in Desmond’s memory because their memories are simultaneous.
Like the talk Hurley had with Miles they are in the past, and everything already happened. but for them its the present. I guess all of the losties Presents are scattered over time. 😀
Thoughts?
Isn’t that kinda what I just said? lol
How could it be if I said it?
idno, maybe… i didn’t really read anything anybody wrote.
wait about Locke Jesus, or time travel?
hah Well scroll up and read from my first post on this theory. We’ve been talking about it all day! 😛
Though we didn’t get into Locke and Jesus or whatever. That belongs on another theory’s wall
lol that’s not a theory i just said that… so it belongs in fun.
Fair enough, Soupertrooper 😎
Lool ;D locke is Jesus?? xD twould b funny but Jesus isn’t of wasn’t a right git like Locke is. *ooh look at me I can talk to the sodding island* haha bloody heroin addict 🙂 Ben > Locke hehe
Nd yea you kinda justsaid what Krista said all day 😀 but it doesn’t really matter ;D the universe may synchronize their memories as a mechanism to evade the paradoxes 🙂 it’s still memory tampering as you will always remember the past
Skil1
my thoughts on this theory.
Ben-knows the past losties and remembers them, but he never gives away info like that. EVER. he is keeping it to himself. knowledge is power for ben.
Faraday- in the constant, when des comes back and faraday shines radiation… faraday wears a protective suit and des comments “what do you wear to protect your head?” and faraday laughs nervously. this is what i believe causes his memory loss. I dont think the cards were zener cards. I believe his memory sucks. it could also be why he is crying in his own flashback. he doesnt remember why 815 is important.
Desmond- this is what makes him special. apparently faradays mice/rats could time travel consciously, so are rats special too? no the way time works with his memory and his ability to gain flashes makes him special.
rousseau- i believe her memory loss will be explained as a singular, personal thing that happened.
Krista’s first post is exactly what i said…but i was “stupid”….and there is no time loop
Absolutely tabs that’s great :))
And rousseaux definately did meet Jin when they were trekking across the island if not before.
Skil1