I don’t think Desmond is able to change things anymore than anyone else. A special set of circumstances had to happen to set his consciousness roaming and once it was done he became Faradays’ constant because Desmond is now anchored. We don’t know that he changed anything to begin with, maybe after he got hit by that bat the guy nailed the bartender anyway. I guess you can say I am with the whatever happened, happened crowd. Everthing we see until past 2007 will go according to what happened in the past. We just haven’t seen it played out yet. Eloise did say that for the first time in a long time she didn’t know what the future held.
We have seen Desmond change stuff like, Charlie. He was supposed to die the first time but desmond repedtly saved him when he wasn’t supposed to. So the island kept course correcting til charlie was dead.
I have an interesting idea. I don’t believe that they will succeed in changing the past. However, I don’t think it’s because it’s impossible. Imagine that Faraday left one constant out of his equations: the Correction Factor. This number determines how much energy/force/effort must be applied to change the past. Due to this, the effort needed to change the past equals the Correction Factor times the variable(s) divided by the average of the consequences of what is being changed before and after the change occurs. In this case, Desmond could save Charlie because the energy used by his body was enought to compensate the change. However, stopping the Incident would require more energy. The energy to stop the Incident would have to compensate for the electromagnetism, the creation of the button, the crash of 815, everything that happened to 815 survivors, the destructions of the sub, the implosion of the hatch, the freighter, moving the Island, and the Oceanic 6 returning. When you examine all that energy, you realize that not even a hydogren could compensate.
I tend to take a more literary, less Star Trek scientific approach to unraveling Lost. The writers are intelligent human begins, but frankly, they probably don’t spend as much time mulling over theories of physics, mathematics and time travel as we do. We know there’s an equation, so it stands to reason that the logic of what’s going on has a great deal to do with an equation. But it is still a TV show, and whatever path it takes has to be followed by average viewers as well as we super-nerds. We spend inexorable amounts of time arguing about time loops versus timelines, time spirals, whether the past can be changed, etc. A series of movies specifically about time travel (Back to the Future) spoke in far greater detail about the rules of time travel within the context of the films than this show does. There are other themes at play here- other ways to find the answer than turning every single theory and thread into an argument between two schools of time theorists.
All of that said, I agree, Faraday’s plan won’t work. It won’t work for literary reasons. Destroying all the Losties in the Past, as well as most likely all the Dharma people and quite possibly the Island itself doesn’t make sense from a literary standpoint. The show has another season. The producers want to make money. Killing off 75% of the cast is not a good way to get people to watch the final season. It’s far easier to let the Incident happen, which may very well be the catalyst which sends everyone in the wrong time to the right time – aka 2007- and also just so happens to be conveniently in 4 hours. Next Week. In a show called, interestingly enough “The Incident”. sometimes over thinking is just – over thinking.
lost4life, I wouldn’t rule out the fact that there are many variables at work, which can either bring about a desired outcome, or not.
Perhaps they will fail, but that is not to say, that an alternative solution cannot be found.
With Daniel’s journal, Ben’s motivation and foresight, Hurley’s ability to talk with ‘the departed’, and John Locke’s commune with ‘the island’, and the assistance of Christian Sheppard, and lord knows who else, all they need is Desmond and his ability to narrow down and ‘alter’ the choices available to them to succeed, IMO.
I agree with sorshah. I think there is more going on than just time travel theories. I think there is just a basic message that is going to come out of all of this in the end. Just some little message about morals, living for today, whatever. The science fiction time travel stuff is just the vehicle used for getting to the “message” as most science fiction is.
OMG I would bet money on the fact Subliminal that one of the Losties causes the incident. I think I have already written this. I bet they get the bomb release it in the swan, but it doesn’t destroy the island, instead it releases the electromagnetic energy. That would be so lost.
well i thought it wouldn’t work because say they stop the plane crash and the frieghter then they would have never been on the island left and came back to the past to have been able to change anything … so by stopping the events they would never have came to stop the events … see what im saying
Totally agree, Faraday is mental. He thought he covered his bases by testing his mind zap on himself first, but looked what happened to Teresa. He’s beating a dead horse.
also…didnt desmond see a flash that if charlie died the time he died, that claire would get on a helicopter? never happened… can we really trust his flashes exactly?
I think that something dawned on Daniel during his research in Ann Arbor and it has nothing to do with the variables. I think that was a crack pot story to make Jack and Kate believe that what he wanted to do to change the past was plausible. I think Faraday thought this. “If I try to change the past by detonating the bomb it could work because…to do this I would have to go to my mother. Since my mother has never mentioned anything about this, and it happened in her past, then I must have been successful. She would have told me if she met me in the past unless I did something to successfully change it.” He believes that her lack of knowledge about what happened is proof that he changed what happened.
Little did he know that the back-shooting-you-know-what sold me out.
Or maybe he thought…the incident/accident is going to be catastrophic. Everyone is going to die if nothing is done to stop it. But, my mother is in front of me and she was on the island at the time, so something must have happened to prevent it. Wow, maybe I can change the past. Maybe I did it.
agreed
I don’t think Desmond is able to change things anymore than anyone else. A special set of circumstances had to happen to set his consciousness roaming and once it was done he became Faradays’ constant because Desmond is now anchored. We don’t know that he changed anything to begin with, maybe after he got hit by that bat the guy nailed the bartender anyway. I guess you can say I am with the whatever happened, happened crowd. Everthing we see until past 2007 will go according to what happened in the past. We just haven’t seen it played out yet. Eloise did say that for the first time in a long time she didn’t know what the future held.
I agree that if they do change something, it will just course correct itself.
We have seen Desmond change stuff like, Charlie. He was supposed to die the first time but desmond repedtly saved him when he wasn’t supposed to. So the island kept course correcting til charlie was dead.
Yeah, that is unless Desmond was supposed to save him a bunch of times and the island was supposed to “course correct” until Charlie was dead…
why did he see ‘visions’ of the future with Charlie actually dying then, not him being saved…but dying?
I have an interesting idea. I don’t believe that they will succeed in changing the past. However, I don’t think it’s because it’s impossible. Imagine that Faraday left one constant out of his equations: the Correction Factor. This number determines how much energy/force/effort must be applied to change the past. Due to this, the effort needed to change the past equals the Correction Factor times the variable(s) divided by the average of the consequences of what is being changed before and after the change occurs. In this case, Desmond could save Charlie because the energy used by his body was enought to compensate the change. However, stopping the Incident would require more energy. The energy to stop the Incident would have to compensate for the electromagnetism, the creation of the button, the crash of 815, everything that happened to 815 survivors, the destructions of the sub, the implosion of the hatch, the freighter, moving the Island, and the Oceanic 6 returning. When you examine all that energy, you realize that not even a hydogren could compensate.
Mixen Dixon that’s a really interesting idea!
I tend to take a more literary, less Star Trek scientific approach to unraveling Lost. The writers are intelligent human begins, but frankly, they probably don’t spend as much time mulling over theories of physics, mathematics and time travel as we do. We know there’s an equation, so it stands to reason that the logic of what’s going on has a great deal to do with an equation. But it is still a TV show, and whatever path it takes has to be followed by average viewers as well as we super-nerds. We spend inexorable amounts of time arguing about time loops versus timelines, time spirals, whether the past can be changed, etc. A series of movies specifically about time travel (Back to the Future) spoke in far greater detail about the rules of time travel within the context of the films than this show does. There are other themes at play here- other ways to find the answer than turning every single theory and thread into an argument between two schools of time theorists.
All of that said, I agree, Faraday’s plan won’t work. It won’t work for literary reasons. Destroying all the Losties in the Past, as well as most likely all the Dharma people and quite possibly the Island itself doesn’t make sense from a literary standpoint. The show has another season. The producers want to make money. Killing off 75% of the cast is not a good way to get people to watch the final season. It’s far easier to let the Incident happen, which may very well be the catalyst which sends everyone in the wrong time to the right time – aka 2007- and also just so happens to be conveniently in 4 hours. Next Week. In a show called, interestingly enough “The Incident”. sometimes over thinking is just – over thinking.
lost4life, I wouldn’t rule out the fact that there are many variables at work, which can either bring about a desired outcome, or not.
Perhaps they will fail, but that is not to say, that an alternative solution cannot be found.
With Daniel’s journal, Ben’s motivation and foresight, Hurley’s ability to talk with ‘the departed’, and John Locke’s commune with ‘the island’, and the assistance of Christian Sheppard, and lord knows who else, all they need is Desmond and his ability to narrow down and ‘alter’ the choices available to them to succeed, IMO.
Those are an awful lot of variables!
I agree with sorshah. I think there is more going on than just time travel theories. I think there is just a basic message that is going to come out of all of this in the end. Just some little message about morals, living for today, whatever. The science fiction time travel stuff is just the vehicle used for getting to the “message” as most science fiction is.
wouldn’t it be ironic if Jack trying to set off the bomb is in fact the one who creates the ‘incident’? It would be very lost esque.
OMG I would bet money on the fact Subliminal that one of the Losties causes the incident. I think I have already written this. I bet they get the bomb release it in the swan, but it doesn’t destroy the island, instead it releases the electromagnetic energy. That would be so lost.
well i thought it wouldn’t work because say they stop the plane crash and the frieghter then they would have never been on the island left and came back to the past to have been able to change anything … so by stopping the events they would never have came to stop the events … see what im saying
sometimes i see visions. that im gonna be fat. but then i lay off the dharma ranch dressing.
Have an Apollo Bar.
Totally agree, Faraday is mental. He thought he covered his bases by testing his mind zap on himself first, but looked what happened to Teresa. He’s beating a dead horse.
also…didnt desmond see a flash that if charlie died the time he died, that claire would get on a helicopter? never happened… can we really trust his flashes exactly?
well then he could have lied about his other flashes too. maybe he only saw charlie in danger
I think that something dawned on Daniel during his research in Ann Arbor and it has nothing to do with the variables. I think that was a crack pot story to make Jack and Kate believe that what he wanted to do to change the past was plausible. I think Faraday thought this. “If I try to change the past by detonating the bomb it could work because…to do this I would have to go to my mother. Since my mother has never mentioned anything about this, and it happened in her past, then I must have been successful. She would have told me if she met me in the past unless I did something to successfully change it.” He believes that her lack of knowledge about what happened is proof that he changed what happened.
Little did he know that the back-shooting-you-know-what sold me out.
Hope I explained this okay.
Or maybe he thought…the incident/accident is going to be catastrophic. Everyone is going to die if nothing is done to stop it. But, my mother is in front of me and she was on the island at the time, so something must have happened to prevent it. Wow, maybe I can change the past. Maybe I did it.