John & Jack’s New Mission
When John Locke makes Ben take him to see Jacob in the cabin back in Season 3, and Jacob speaks the words, ‘help me’, we were under the impression that Jacob needed John to help him gain back control of ‘the island’, and/or escape his ‘cabin existence’.
The ‘philosopher’ John Locke had ideas concerning leadership. In his opinion, no one can be destined to be neither a slave nor a leader. Anyone can gain the properties required for leading. However, if one wants to overthrow the current leader and become the new leader, one cannot do this without exterminating the current leader.
John is following the beliefs of the philosopher who bears his namesake! He is going to attempt to kill Jacob. He is following the wants, needs and desires of ‘the island’, for reasons not fully understood by anyone except him. Quite surprising for someone who has claimed ‘the island’, was/is his destiny! He is taking ‘the others’ along, to involve and solidify his leadership in their presence. It would appear, that John Locke’s resurrection from death, has indeed given him newfound purpose, direction and strength.
You might be thinking at this point, that this might mean John is evil, and has untoward intentions. Perhaps, a word of caution should be used before making this leap. John has always held the best interest of ‘the island’ at heart, and has declared ‘his people’, ‘the others’. The question is, will Jacob resist John’s attempt? Let me remind you of Walt’s words to John when they last met. He tells John that he saw him surrounded by people who wanted to kill him! I think this premonition will prove accurate, in more ways than one.
The ‘others’ have never had a leader whose motives were of pure intent, prior to John Locke. They have been led by the likes of Charles Widmore, an evil, greedy man, and Ms. Hawking, a tough-minded woman who had a sudden change of heart, due to her son, Daniel being shot by her own hand in 1977. Following their reign, Benjamin Linus took command of ‘the others’, and lied and manipulated his way as their leader, creating all kinds of havoc on ‘the island’. It would appear that Richard Alpert, advisor to ‘the others’, has less power and insight than initially thought!
It would also appear, that nobody is going to stand in John’s way or disrupt his plans, including Ben & Richard. I would also extend that to ‘the losties’, if they attempt to interfere. What are John’s plans and intentions once he kills Jacob? Are some of ‘the losties’ we’ve grown so fond of, going to oppose him?
Now that we have seen Ms. Hawking’s willingness to obtain assistance from Jack and Sayid, it may shed new light on why later in her life, she changed her perspective and role, to be that of a woman who is on a peaceful mission.
Jack Shephard has tried to ‘fix’ things all of his life. As a Surgeon, he found success, but success in his personal life, eluded him, mainly because he lacked faith. Jack had all of the scientific knowledge and faith in his abilities to heal people, but beyond that, he had little to no faith in anything or anyone. If he couldn’t place a ‘scientific label’ on it, it held no meaning, purpose, or place in his life. He approached these issues with stubbornness.
However, the death of John Locke, a man who was always labeled as crazy, has suddenly begun to resonate with Jack and his newfound declaration of what his destiny is on ‘the island’. Jack hasn’t changed his need to ‘fix’ things, although he has changed his perspective and approach on how he will attempt to ‘fix’ things. Faith, has finally taken hold of Jack Shephard, much in the same way it did for John Locke when he arrived on ‘the island’, and found he was the recipient of a miracle. Jack’s process has been far more gradual, culminating with John’s death and final written words to him.
Everyone initially labeled John as crazy, and now Jack is being labeled in the same manner. In biblical times, Jesus Christ was also labeled as crazy, because he believed in miracles, and spread the word of Christianity. They crucified Jesus because he preached beliefs that were foreign/different to their own. His beliefs challenged their own, and struck fear in their hearts! Therefore, we should exercise caution when applying the same label to Jack. Just because Kate says he is crazy, doesn’t make it so! She also said that about Locke!
Nobody should be surprised by Jack’s sudden change of heart. Given his propensity and desire, want and need to fix things, that if he feels there is a way to change things he will attempt do just that! Nobody is more determined, driven and motivated to succeed than he is. Jack has received the necessary ‘signs’, to finally make him a ‘believer’ in his own destiny.
We now have two people who are following their individual destinies. John Locke and Jack Shephard. Will Jack and John end up serving together eventually, forming an impenetrable force in the name of destiny?
I predicted there would be acts of betrayal, people playing both sides of the fence, and switching sides in this drama, which is unveiling itself. Many people will show where they will fall at the end of the season. We will see who is left standing at this time, and who they will decide to follow, next season.
Well…you dont give me a lot to talk about on this one Dabsi, covering a lot of things.
I have to say, we are back on the same thinking track, and just last night, was going back in time myself, and doing some reading an the ‘real’ John Lockes philosophy.
Great post, great defense of ‘crazy’ Jack, and exxcellent points, disputing some of my own thoughts before on Jacks faith being toward his medical abilities, and being a man of science.
Johns death hit him in a strange way, and he is, like Locke not pressing the button a long time ago, confused in his own way.
Highbrow has said that he and Jack must align for leadership, and I think Faradays words telling Jack that he isnt supposed to be there, mean in the long run that he should be on the island, just not in the 70s, but standing beside John in 07′.
AES, I had written this theory last week, but didn’t post until now. I decided to include John Locke the philosopher, and was also inspired by your words about Jack’s faith, so I made a few changes!
Jack has gotten a ‘bad rap’, and I gave him a hard time also, when he was acting so stubborn. But, this last episode convinced me, that jack has finally ‘seen the light’.
I think from the beginning of Lost, the indication of Jack and John, aligning themselves one day was always present.
They both have made many mistakes while on this personal journey, but seem to have found clarity.
It is indeed refreshing to see things finally take a turn for the better!
Wow. I’m going to express some agreement with both Dabs and AES all in one comment, so hold on to your hats!
Dabs, I agree with your assessment of John Locke’s mission. He’s on his way to take his role as leader and to finalize that he must kill Jacob (remove the current leader). To this end I don’t think that Jacob will resist him. I think this is exactly what he was asking for when he said “help me” way back when…
AES, totally agree that Daniel meant when he said Jack wasn’t supposed to be there that he meant he was supposed to be in a different time. I think he might be somewhat mistaken or maybe he just doesn’t have all the information. He somehow knows that Jack is supposed to be in 2007 so he’s confused when he sees Jack in 1977. I think Jack and the other Pasties will be going back to the future soon. Or forward to the present. Whatever.
I don’t think that faith (at lease as John practices it) suits Jack at all. I think that before they align Jack will go back to being more like he was before. There would be no point in having basically two John Lockes in the leadership role.
Oh, great post, by the way… I meant to say that in my other comments…
hiya highbrow, I had forgotten to tell AES, that I agree with his statements about Daniel telling Jack he wasn’t supposed to be there in the 70’s.
It makes sense that was why Jack was inactive, and looking like he didn’t know what to do with himself!
I am inclined to agree with you that Jacob may not put up any resistance in one sense, but without knowing who he is, it’s a hard one to call.
It could be relief for him, or it could mean John is in the ‘fight for his life’.
Eh, Jacob is old and John probably has 35 knives stashed in secret pockets all over his body. My money is on John.
highbrow, I am inclined to agree with you. Jack and John are two very different people, with their own thoughts on faith.
I can’t see the two of them, agreeing on the same core values.
But, what I really do like is, the aspect of John’s faith and Jack’s science, finally getting together, to run ‘the island’, in unison!
Hopefully! lol
highbrow, now there is a fight I can’t wait to see!
The ‘dead’ killing the ‘dead’.
losts-colombo would definitely like those odds!
Yeah, I’ve been shouting that for a while now… John and Jack each need to accept their roles as man of faith (John) and man of science (Jack) and come together. That’s how things will get back in balance. John has accepted and embraced his role but Jack still has a way to go.
What if the Pasties come back to 2007 from 1977 and have their confrontation with John and the Others at the point where they meet up with Jacob? That could certainly add some drama to the whole thing… John and Jacob could help Jack find his way once and for all and Jack and John could take power on the island together.
highbrow, I think what you have mentioned is the ‘key’.
I have long felt, that Lost will emerge, balancing science and faith.
These two factors are the ‘hot topics’ of our culture, so I expect that the writers would want to place emphasis on these factors.
Showing, that both sides are dependent on one other in order to fully understand the Universe, and make progress.
That is where the strength of the issues needs to be placed!
Hippies and Hostiles, living together in harmony.
lol I think I’ve heard that on some kind of commercial!
I did mean science and faith.
I have an idea… might be dumb though. Do you think that maybe at some point Christian was on the island as the man of science? And the whole thing got screwed up when he just left? Met a woman and left the island throwing things out of balance…
highbrow, I have had some thoughts about Christian Shephard.
It’s quite possible he was on ‘the island’, but I don’t think it was for any great length of time, but I could be wrong.
I do think, Christian worked off-island for them.
There is no doubt in my mind, that the Shephard family, is a main focal point on ‘the island’, as very key players.
Perhaps, this is in their lineage!
I’m positive that the Shepard family itself is related to the island and that John and Jacob are both a part of it. What I’m thinking is that Christian was the man of science and Jacob is the man of faith and at some point Christian decided to abondon the island for a chick (Jacks mom). Jacob, Christian’s father, does not approve for obvious reasons but for whatever reason he can’t just stop Christian from making his own decisions. He gives Christian a watch to remind him of his mistake but he never wears it.
Over time his decision wears on him and he sinks into a life of alcohol and knocking up women in other countries… A lot like Jack did after he refused his role and left the island. Christian may have been traveling just to get back to the island like Jack was only Christian was a little more successful with the ladies during his travels.
It’s all Christian’s fault.
highbrow, I think that it is likely that the Shepard family have ‘family ties’ with ‘the island’.
I am not certain what those ‘ties’ are at present. I think we may know better after the finale airs, though. At least, enough hopefully to put us on the right track! lol
I have always liked the notion that their is a ‘family tie-in’ with Jacob, through lineage.
That is about all I am willing to speculate upon in that sense, as there is little to no proof of anything at present.
I think when it all comes down to some of our characters, we will see that many of them, may have ‘family ties’ to ‘the island’, one way or the other, regardless of who raised them.
There are enough questions left in the air, to see that as a possibility.
Yeah, little proof exists… so far. It’s not really much of a theory for that reason (my coomment I meant, not your post) and more like just wild speculation… but I think on a lot of topics that’s all there is to do because of the lack of real evidence…
highbrow, I am guilty of some wild speculations on Lost! I mean who isn’t? lol
I do like to harness those privately though, until I do have some proof. Mild to medium speculation is all good in my eyes.
For me, personally, there just isn’t enough information yet to even give way to medium speculation yet. But, that will come eventually.
For now, I can’t speculate on anyone being blood related, because not enough is known.
I think wild speculation is fun. The wilder the better. Like Jack being pregnant. We have no evidence of this outside his wild mood swings (which I realize could just be due to his period) but still… I’m sure it’s true…
I NEVER make wild Lost speculations.
All of mine are based off of nothing but facts, and all are very possible even in the real world without a science-fiction twist….
(that sounds convincing, right?)
;]
Bens look of WTF? when Sun says the name Christian, to me seems to lead that Christian played some pivotal island role at some point in his life.
highbrow, those kind of wild speculations are not even in the realm of anything I could possibly wrap my mind around!
AES, you are absolutely right on that one!
Ben didn’t even try to look as cool as a cucumber! He made the name recognition, in an instant.
Ben knows him, and I got the impression, he either fears him, or doesn’t like him!
Thanks for reminding me!
Jack has a vagina. There’s a magic island!
AES, I believe that Ben was lying when he said he didn’t know of the island ever bringing anyone back to life. He knows Christian and he knows what and who he is.
highbrow, seriously please abandon the wild speculation here. Thanks!
Ben may have been lying about knowing if ‘the island’ has brought anyone back to life.
I would think he knows the back-story of Richard all too well, so he had to have been lying.
Damn right he does, he was NOT lying to John about it, but it was out of fear. The title of the episode was possibly Bens biggest lie, and unfortuantly for him, John doesnt care what he believes anymore.
The monster/Alex told him something about knowing he was going to kill John, and if he did, it would destroy him, and I feel that is the producers/writers way of telling us Ben has a way of killing the resurected on the island.
Sure thing, Dabs. I know it’s a scary topic but sooner or later the show is going to go there. I think I remember seeing a deleted scene from way back when Hurley made the golf course… The scene was of Jack complaining to Hurley that he hadn’t made a ladies tee and that it wasn’t fair…
AES, I think you are right about that!
I think that Ben knows all too well, how the ‘dead’ can still be killed.
I doubt there is very much that Ben doesn’t know. He has kept those secrets to himself, for whatever reason, so he could rule the way he wanted to, as opposed to how ‘the island’ wanted him to.
Ben’s fear was palpable! At least we know of one thing he is frightened of, and that is the wrath of the smoke monster!
But, I somehow doubt that will be enough to keep him at ‘bay’ for too long!
Everyone knows how to kill a zombie. There are books about how to do that.
highbrow, I know you are only reminiscing about your days of “Fast Times At Ridgemount High”, so I will keep this in mind, with any further comments.
The moment Ben is waiting for is the chance to kill John and in turn be the only person the island can turn to.
highbrow, some of us would like to discuss the theory on a serious level.
Respect, please?
There is a time and a place for everything!
When have you known me to be serious? I’m alternating back and forth… I’ll try to stick to the serious side a little more.
highbrow, Ben will make some attempts to attempt to ‘swing things’ in his direction.
John may not be his first priority!
Even Richard acknowledes John as a “problem”, and I think that he and Ben are more in cahoots on the whole Jacob thing, than many believe.
AES, I am beginning to think, that it is Ben & Richard who are in cahoots to suppress Jacob!
If, Jacob is being held prisoner, or has placed himself under protection, on ‘the island’, as previously thought, I could definitely see these two, as the ones responsible for that!
I am definitely going to enjoy watching how Ben ‘dances’ his way out of this one!
PS: AES, Ben is about to do another one of his famous renditions of “The Kansas City Shuffle”.
Somebody is going to ‘feel the burn’! lol
Ha!
I love when you use that phrase for some reason, lol…
AES, it is an old saying, made new in the movie, “Lucky Number Slevin”.
Another one of my favourites!
It suits Ben and his antics, perfectly! lol
hey never mind these guys.hugo’s dad is gonna be the main focus in season 6.we’ll see how he joined the dharma hippie commune,used the time machine,go to the future to get the winning numbers of the lottery,then spend 2 or three decades going here there and everywhere in time to make it all go his way.he’s the one that has caused all these problems and we’ll see him get away with it too…………what do you think about that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ben ,jack sawyer,kate etc have been hoggint the screen this whole time.aint you had enough of all their bumbling about.its obvious they aint got a clue.hugo’s dad is the missing link………..
50th state, I definitely get the part about the missing link!
yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
it seems that every story line in this story falls short of a conclusion…..im sure some thing like this will link these stories together and conclude them.
Hugos Dad will be trivial. I dont doubt his being there, due to my belief in irony and the fact that he said he didnt believe him about what had happened post o6, but I highy doubt him being Jacob or the secret to Lost.
50th state, I just left a comment in AES theory, about how a lot of the information earlier on in the series, is resurfacing again.
I think in the end, it will all tie together, quite nicely!
Dabs, I also like how you allude to some of the Losties crossing each other, I thought and sort of hope it will occure.
I think that some of them just wont understand what Jack is trying to do, or what he will do, once its done.
Hi AES, I think it ties in with your theory in that sense!
I am expecting that some people may have other ideas, that may not necessarily line up with Jack or John’s mission.
Ben is still going to be ‘hot’ to try and poison ‘the pot’, to his own means and ends.
That aside, there are a couple of characters, who may not want to follow either of them.
And Kate is one person, who may be deliberately manipulating events for some desired effect.
Too soon for me to tell at the moment.
Dabs, I like your comparision of Locke to Jesus as both being considered as crazy by some. And they both had to die and be resurected to get some people to realy believe in miracles.
dizzyfromlost, thanks for enjoying the connection on that one!
It seemed so befitting, that it was hard not to make the comparison!
Perhaps, this is exactly how john Locke will inspire people to follow him, implicitly!
nice read dabs
as we inch closer to the season finale and the setup for next year i feel we will be left hanging with respect to where all this pans out and whether john or jack hold to their current actions.
i’m glad you brought jack up, as i’m still
still trying to wrap my head around how honest he was with kate about his belief in setting things right (basically ensuring none of the events happened to them). although kate indicated she disagreed, i think deep inside she probably hoped it never happened as well. what i
Thanks username! You bring up a very good point about Jack.
I have been wondering how much of an influence Kate will have on him, and whether her influence will make him weaken his position. She is pretty good at ‘turning’ a mans head around!
Having said that, I think Jack feels that he lost Kate, because she didn’t respect his weakness. He may be out, to ‘do her proud’ again!
No doubt, those ‘pesky’ writers will leave us hanging! Part of that I’m looking forward to, as it will bring forth so many good theories, and the part I hate about it is, we will have to wait 8 months for the next installment.
Should be fun, regardless!
AT LOGGER HEADS ON LOST!
fight of the century, come place a bet at ColumboBet, and see our knock out prices!!
jacob 5/1 john lock 1/3
(win only) no related bets.
x
lol ColumboBet!
I’ll take those odds!
How much $$$
i like what you are saying mrs dabs. i think jack and john are coming up trumps as the season come to an end.
however, the science v faith i do not agree with.
i dont think jack is man of science, yes, he was a surgeon, but of my thoughts as to him being a an of science, no-sir-ee!
i think jack is a person who has been told what to do most of his life,as with his father, and most people try to please there fathers, so, he went along with it. but as of recent, jack has taken his own approach to his thought processes. saying no! i wont come with you kate, no i wont try to impress you kate, i will do what i want to do.
as for locke, yes he is a man of faith,the man couldnt walk, when he came to the island he was cured. and for as long as the whole series has gone, weve watched his faith become more and more. the only thing is with locke is, he beleives in something perhaps greater than himself, where with jack, he only believed in his dad.
so in this instance i think jack has more self belief, and locke has more belief in some one higher than himself, because of all the things that have happened to him.
so i think, that they come together nicely as two people who are very focused on there beliefs, be it personal (jack) or a faith higher than ones self (locke), not sure what that means for the two.
who knows!
x
haha, who do you want to win?
rember though, lock may summin himself, so it could be two lockes…..v one jacob…
PLACE BETS NOW!
x
losts-columbo, I agree with what you are saying about Jack. I should have tried to state my mind better with how I described him.
I tried to show that Jack’s lack of faith, appeared mainly in his own personal life, and the faith he did have was in his abilities as a surgeon.
I agree that his father formed who he was, to a great extent, and he was living his life, miserably trying to please him.
He only believed of himself, what his father told him he was and could do! He had not explored any other possibilities!
You are correct, of recent he is finally able to say the word, no! Something which he was never able to do.
The word self-belief describes him more accurately and he is following a road which is self-directed by his own instincts.
It is finally nice to see him take control over his own life, but I think he may still be motivated by Kate, underneath it all.
John Locke is much easier to analyze, but I fear with him, that he may succumb, to his own overconfidence.
He may have cut out too much with his plan of killing Jacob.
I agree with your thoughts, as usual, you are right on the money!
I am not sure I would want to bet my $$ on Locke, until I get a look at Jacob first! lol
Does that make me a ‘waffler’? lol That’s okay, you can take my cash. I’ll keep my bet small, just in case!
If Jacob is anything like the smoke monster, I think Locke may have a problem! lol
ahah! right on the money! im not sure about that! ahha! but you know the ten commandments? well there is a secret that one was scrubbed off that said “11. losts-columbo is always right, but evrythings a joke”……sorry if that is blasphemus!
ive been thinking alot about locke recenty, such as the part in the newest episode where he takes ben and richy to see himself. i didnt see that coming yet if you think about earlier in the episode, he was very conetrated and quite confident. when he announces he is wants to see jacob, he has the same demeanor. which to me, suggests he aready has something planned, that might actually go worng for him, becuse he has been blinded by this faith that what ever he is doing is correct.
as for jack, i think he is sick of kate. i have alot of patience, as does jack, and i think he has run out of patience with the women. and he thinks, that nowhe can go with his own flow. and now have anything else tieing himself down.
but yeah, tour ideas of faith are two completly diffrent things when it comes to locke and jack.
x
ahhaa, well, you have to put your bet on before the OFF, so you have to pick soon.
if jacob is like the smoke monster then if i was locke id bring a hoover and suck it up.
but there might be two lockes! thats the only problem you have here!
x
losts-columbo, I’m not sure if number 11 was crossed off! lol You are right quite often, you know! Don’t let that become an annoying habit, of yours, okay?? lol haha
I think Locke does have a plan, and it’s only his over confidence that scares me a little. But, maybe he knows what he is doing! Let’s hope so. I’d hate to see a repeat of the past!
Well, Kate really abused Jack IMO, so if he is sick of her, and had enough, it wouldn’t surprise me. I think she might let him down again.
So, are you saying you are patient with women, like Jack is? I think Jack is too patient with women.
PS: hope you caught reference to another favourite movie of mine, in the above comments. It’s called Lucky Number Slevin, (named after a horse, in a race).
If you haven’t seen it, you must do so ASAP! You’ll love it!
How about this idea, I will place a bet on both to win! Ha, how do you like those odds??
That’s what you call a ‘sure bet’! lol haha
ahahah! well me and moses kinda fell out and he crossed it off. we met up after jesus went back to heaven and i made a joke and he fel out with me. so yeah, he crossed it off! illl geeettt yyoouuu mmoossseesss!
your right about locke, but im convinced hes already done what he says hes going to do, but i think its going to go wrong for him because of what jack is u to with richy and eloise and co. as ocke wouldnt have any knowledge of what they are up to at this monment!
im very patient, you have to treat a women right! thats what i saying.
jack isnt too patient, hes just too forgiving, which is a thin line between pateince and forgivness as no doubt youll agrree! ahha!
i dint know the refrence but oddly enough that film has been sitting on the shelf for months and i havent watched it yet! but i will do now, since you watched primer!
ill watch it on thursday when i have a day off!
x
thats no fun dabs! you nee to stick yor foot in the see!! not just those toes! get your delf down to ColumboBet, and see what we have for you!
x
losts-columbo, I agree with your take on Jack. that is the right take on him. He is too forgiving!
But, I guess that isn’t a really bad fault to have, considering one can never be too forgiving.
I am on board with about Locke. i have serious concerns with him. I think he is headed for big trouble. I wonder what lies ahead for him? hmm
I so enjoyed that you stopped by tonight, to chat! I love our talks!
Please see the movie, on Thursday! You will not regret it, I assure you!
That Moses sure can be picky about writing! lol
I hope you are able to watch the Lost finale so you can come onto the site, before it airs!
lol losts-columbo, why do I get the impression, that I might leave Colombo Bets, a little light in the pocket? haha!
totally agrree, locke is going to run into trouble! his plan (that he has already executed) will go worng, thats my theory and prediction! i might pop down to ColumboBet and see what odds they have!
i love stopping by to talk on here, and especially with you, its a bit sad that i dont get to talk with evryone, as there is a problem wth space and time! but i seriously love our rejoindering to!
i promise ill watch the movie, and hopefully by thursday ill have watched the new episodes! depending weather the pirates get it up!
and moses is far too picky, all i said was… “hey moses? do you know what jesuss lasts words were?” he said “yeah…he siad ‘its finished'” and i said, “no moses, he said ‘hey peter, i can see your house from here'” !!!! and he said right! im going straight to od and tell him what you said, and before you could say pentecost, my comandment was down! now thats picky! haha!
x
its kay dabs, i can pay your small bets out, its the big punders im relying on for the Noteage!
but your more than welcome! here,at ColumboBet.
okay okay, ill stop plugging my pretend bookies!
x
lol that is very good! It doesn’t take a lot to ‘tick’ that guy off!
I wish you did have more time, but I am grateful for the time that you do spend here!
Great conversations, and good fun!
Place my money on Jacob to win then!
Well, I know it’s getting really late there for you, so I will bid you adieu for the evening!
Sweet dreams, my bella!
losts-colombo, you don’t know how thankful I am that you didn’t refer to me, as a ‘big punder’. haha lol
ahahha! sorry! my spelling is terrible, i meant “punter” of course. but you can be a punder!
im glad i can spend time here, although i still think im dreaming all this, as im not into technology that much, and to think im speaking to someone from another world practically is stil weird to me, but totally briliant!
but yes must sleep.
arevaderci bella ragazza!
x
Don’t worry about your spelling, but that ‘punter’ one did make me wonder! lol
I am glad you are enjoying your time on the site, and discussing with me. The world is a big place with lots of interesting people in it.
Glad we connected!
Yes, please sleep well.
Ciao, my bella!
Well, I certainly hope everyone is readying themselves to see what ‘Team Jack’ and ‘Team Locke’ have in store for us tonight!
I am hoping that both ‘their moments’ have arrived, where their plans, actually go well for them.