What About Me? What About You?

Cuz you’re restless again,
and you want it to end
but I can’t let you leave,
cuz you promised to me
and you’d do what I say,
and you said that you’d stay…
You said that you’d stay

And what about me?

Wise words. Wait, that’s not from Lost’ That’s the Vandals! Ah, forget it.

The Incident. Given two hours to fill they obviously had plenty of time for answers’ and of course new questions.

We finally met Jacob! Not only have we met Jacob but we’ve seen that he’s been out and about off the island’ Apparently that circle of ash has a door and some goof went and left it open. So Jacob has been out and he’s been visiting our friends’

– He met Kate when she was just a kid and kind of gave her the impression that shoplifting is ok. No wonder she grew up to kill so many people. Enabler!

– He also visited Jack and confirmed that he is actually the god of hanging vending machine snacks. We could use that guy in our break room at work. Turns out DB Jack isn’t just his Season Four-Season Five persona. His first DB move was to take credit for the five seconds thing when Kate was stitching him up in the Pilot Episode. Not only did Christian come up with that but Jack decided to be a pissy little brat about it!

– He visited James at his parent’s funeral and kind of let him know that it’s ok to write out a death threat, even though his uncle (I guess) told him that it was wrong.

– He visited Sun and Jin at their wedding and he speaks Korean! Neat!

I think it’s important in some way that Jacob visited some of the Losties BEFORE they came to the island (Kate, Jack and James’ the triangle no less and Sun and Jin) and some after. He visited

– Hurley just before flight 316. He’s responsible for Hugo getting the flight information and the guitar case came from him. We still don’t know what’s in it but I hope we’ll learn that next week’ oh, what? Next year! Damnit!

– He also visited Sayid and didn’t do that guy any favors. He shows up to distract Sayid just long enough so only Nadia gets wacked by that car. Sayid might have seen it coming and saved them both.

I think the most important visit he made though was to John Locke. Is it just me or as Locke dead after he was thrown out of the building? Looked like Jacob brought him back to life. Oh, but just so he could be paralyzed and then get killed by Ben. Ben has devoted his entire adult life to Jacob and the island but he’s done more against him in season five than anyone has through the entire season! He killed his man, Locke then he, uh, well, he killed him. ‘What about me?’. Indeed. Jacob must have known what would happen we he responded with ‘what about you?’, yet he said it anyway. If he’d given an explanation he might not have been killed. He’s got something up his sleeve. Do you think he makes the clothes for the Others? Could that stabbing scene have been more poorly acted? But here’s the thing. Ben was put through so much crap and when his faith was tested he failed. He was deceived. By whom? Well, a deceiver, of course.

I think Christian is aligned against Jacob. He’s with Jacobs other, less personable half (Magnus Hanso anyone? That’s my guess). How about that, huh? They have the same rules! Seems they can’t kill each other just because they pinky swore they wouldn’t’ but there’s a loop hole!

So I guess Ilana and Bram and them really are the good guys’ I got the impression that Jacob really is the good guy here and he did bring Ilana to the island to help him. She may have shown up a bit too late though. What’s in that box? The body of John Locke, of course! What else would be in there? Do you think they brought that box with them? If so then I wonder what was in it before’ And hey, John came to the island in a box, ok’ with handles and everything. Did they really need to take him out and put him in that bigger box just so they could lug him around the island? What lies in the shadow of the statue? Not common sense, that’s for sure.

I had been hoping to see Phil and Sayid die in this episode (well, Jack too but that just wasn’t realistic). Juliet died and I immediately said ‘I hate this effin’ show’. I’m counting Juliet because we actually saw her at her end. I realize it’s pretty much a given that the rest of them died too. I wasn’t sad to see Sayid go (wait, did we actually see him dead?) and Phil’ well, that was just satisfying. The scene where Juliet was going down the hole was just sick (wait, sick means good these days, right? I meant it was healthy. Gruesomely healthy).

And oh so importantly, what of the incident? Well, since we really don’t know exactly what the incident is/was we can’t really tell. Did they prevent it or did they cause it? I’m voting for cause. Why? I think you all know why. It’s in the best interest of all those people Kate would have killed if she’d made it back to LA. I swear that chick just can’t stop killing people!

So the question is who is Jacob? That’s still the question!!!?!?! Well yeah, it is. Fortunately though we have enough information to actually theorize about it! And plenty of time until we get anymore information too’ I’m guessing that Jacob is a god. There’s a new question too… who’s the guy too good to eat Jacob’s fish?

Jacob is responsible for Richards lack of aging. Oh, Richard is the only one, it seems, who has been loyal to Jacob. Huh. He was tricked into helping the Locke the Decepticon and why? JACK’S FAULT AGAIN! Oh, Locke didn’t make his own destiny, did he? It was the Decepticon who did that.

I’m babbling now. What did I miss? What did you guys think of the episode? I look forward to reading all the opinions tomorrow while I’m at work’ for now I’m off to bed.

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93 thoughts on “What About Me? What About You?

  1. You thought the stabbing scene was poorly acted? Really?

    Interesting thoughts on the episode….why the Jack and Kate hating? 😉

    So much to think about…I can’t even put it into words.

  2. Awesome Ep….pisses me off though…i think jack and crew dont make it back to 07 in the way that we think…..i think they are there…just alittle older…in follow the leader richard said somethinga bout there being another group in the temple…Jack and co?

  3. Also, Jacob knows the ending to something….and he is trying to stop it…recruited everyone that needed to be there and wanted to change something….but did he accomplish? we will know next year

  4. You we could be being misled about everyone,and those that have appear to have been killed have just switched with a future version of themselves just to change their own future.

  5. Great episode. Thought so many things were clarified till I read your post and threw a whole new interpretation on what I saw. Maybe the good Locke who left the island to save it will be resurected and battle it out with the new evil Locke who we have seen lately. That would realy cause some confusion.

  6. maybe locke went on his walk about ages ago.we did see nicki and paolo find the question mark station. maybe locke found a way to get to the donkey wheel early on

  7. Or…the white flash, similar to other flashes we’ve seen before, will send Jack and crew back to the present. Including Juliet and Sayid. Richard said they all died because he hasn’t seen them around for the last 30 years.

  8. I love that it was good enough for you to write from home, HB.

    Best episode of the season. Instantly one of my all time fave top 3.
    I’m nearly freaking out it was so good. I can’t write anymore…have to let it linger.

  9. We also saw Miles father badly injure his arm, indicating what happened, happened. Just a thought, who knows with this show, anything could happen.

  10. “anyone speak the language richard spoke when he answered the question to what lies in the shadow of the statue????”

    It was Latin. “He who will save us all.”

  11. Thanks for the translation. He who will save us all. I suppose then that it’s Jacob who lies in the shadow of the statue.

    Hi, Kim. I swear I tried so hard not to post this last night but I had things in my head and I had to get them out… So I watched Lost last night then I hopped on here and wrote this up then I watched the latest episode of Fringe before I went to sleep… I had the strangest dreams involving Jacob, an island, Carlton Cuse, aliens, four-wheelers and my alarm clock which I kept turning off because I was up until 3am watching Fringe… what a night!

    It’s pretty obvious that Jacob is up to something but I doubt he’s trying to change anything or help anyone. He’s experimenting. What did they say in the beginning when Jacob was eating his fish and there was the Blackrock off the coast there and his pal was like “you’re going to bring them here, right” or something like that and Jacob was all “heck yeah!” and his pal said “damnit Jacob, can’t you just leave those people alone?” and Jacob was all “damn, dude… all we ever do is sit around on this island eating fish and making blankets… if I don’t have people around to screw with then I might just go crazy!”. I’m paraphrasing, of course.

  12. They totaly did! They just gave us some new questions at the same time… Right off the bat they show us this guy and I’m all “finally! That’s Jacob!”… then pretty much immediately I said “but who’s that guy?”..

  13. I get the funky dreams thing…every time I woke up I had a new thought about Jacob’s purposes.

    Either that guy is the embodiment of ‘good’ destiny, I know some people are saying it’s a God vs. Satan thing…. or the Jacob that we saw is deceivingly bad. I’m pro him being ‘good’ but I can’t help but think that they might do a bait-and-switch.

    But seriously, that guy and his ‘rival’. I love where we are headed.

    And not enough answers?!? I suppose it’s only if you want to see them. Which is basically one of the main themes on the show….

    “They’re coming.”

    How perfect of a last line was that? Along with (hmmm…whatever shall we call him now?) not-Locke, Locke???

    Highbrow, do you remember a few weeks ago somewhere on a comment thread I said something about Jesus’ death and resurrection not really being a surprise…as in, it was foretold and prophesied about…and so in some ways, it wasn’t what his followers had anticipated, it discouraged them, and then ultimately the people that were going after Jesus thought that they had ‘taken care of the problem’ by killing him? But ultimately, it was foretold and ‘part of the plan’ …? And you said something, like “that makes Jesus less interesting?”

    I couldn’t help but think of that conversation as Jacob rolled into the fire… After we saw him interact, ‘encourage’ the 815ers from 1976-2007 in who they are and what they can be/do…. and then of course, Ilana and Bram’s group… So as he’s ‘dying’ he delivers his “they’re coming” line. Uh, is there a plan? Indeed.

  14. maybe he is dying for a reason without resurrection. as a martyr, a catalyst. like how lockes death was that “little push” jack needed. maybe jacobs death will be useful to jacobs purposes.

  15. I think he died for a reason and it was planned by him. In fact, I think up until the burning part he was faking it! Did you see how Ben stabbed him? I think he might have said something like like “Ow! WTF, man? That stings!”… I thought it was interesting that they supposedly have a rule about killing each other and that Ben killed Jacob in order to work around that (I think)… but Ben only inflicted a superficial stab wound on the shoulder and it was Decepticon Locke who killed him by shoving him into the fire.

    Kim, I don’t think that was me that said that about Jesus. I think he’s plenty interesting!

  16. i read most of this. (sorry i have mad ADD)

    about christian being against Jacob – i agree and disagree. yea – christian opposes Jacob. but christian isn’t christian at all. he is the decepticon. just like smokies takes the form of all these other dead characters – especially Locke – he is christian.

    if we are looking for biblical references:
    when he is Christian – he is the false prophet.
    when he is Locke – he is the antichrist.

  17. HB, it was totally you. Unless you are actually dead in a box and someone else has been using your username to cause dissension, confusion and evil.

    I will find that conversation, at some point. Just not right now.

    Seriously. The other thing I keep thinking about is AES’ line, “I would follow Locke to the top of a cliff…” 🙂

    I am looking forward to more conversation about this particular turn of events. I can’t believe people think there weren’t ‘answers’ on this show. I guess it’s just if we want to put things together or not. And of course, the answers are all still speculation, but there sure seems to be a lot more to connect if we want to… it’s still so soon after, I almost have to let it sit longer to take it all in.

    I have to go re-read my ‘Unholy Trinity’ post at some point, maybe that’s where we talked about it. ….

  18. Yeah, I wonder what AES would have to say when John pushed him off that cliff and into a fire.

    So the island really is the Garden of Eden and the odd couple is Cain and Abel. What do you think of that?

  19. Yep. Was thinking about the cliff too. We shouldn’t be too hard on him.

    Besides, he has an out. He probably meant that he would follow the “real” Locke off a cliff. Wink, wink.

  20. Yeah, I’m sure he did mean that. But that was also with thinking that the walking, talking John Locke was the real John Locke.

    I have to admit though that I said I’d follow Locke before Jack…

  21. I didn’t start watching lost until season 4. My sister finally convinced me to watch season 1-3 one summer and have ever since been as addicted as her.

    I find the island as Garden of Eden interesting. When Adam and Eve were in the Garden (before the Fall), they could not have children because they hadn’t really discovered their sexuality (that came with the fig leaves). Fertility issues? Nobody can have children in the Garden of Eden. But that got blown out of the water with Ethan. But then again, maybe, Amy never went out side the sonic fence at anytime during her pregnancy. She wasn’t exposed to the “full powers” of the island at any point in her pregnancy. Also, the garden was supposedly guarded by angels at its gates (statue?).

    Redemption is a heavy plot line in Lost. Man struggle to be worthy of living in paradise? Rose and Bernard seem to have it down.

  22. Yeah, that would make sense. Rose and Bernard as Adam and Eve with them living in the garden hapily and peacefully. When we saw them last night they mirrored Jacob and his rival.

    But let me go ahead and pull the race card on Rose real quick. “You people”? Seriously Rose, “You people”? What exactly do you mean by that? Are you referring to white people Rose?

    Ok, I’m done.

  23. haha! me and my friends made the same joke about rose’s you people line during the show. this fake locke was very convincing, and convinced and manipulated the top manipulator, ben. sawyer got one upped by ben and his people, and now ben got one upped right back. i really hope there is no one above jacob and dark shirt. too many layers.

    cain and abel is good i guess but one of them is dead cant remember which one.

    ah well. im gonna go live in a cave until season 6 starts. im gonna grow a sick beard.

  24. One of them died in the bible (Abel I think) and one of them died on the show (Jacob).

    There was so much going on last night my thoughts about it are coming in a random order…

    I think that Jacob and his rival each capable of manifesting as a smoke monster… meaning that there are two different ones. Think about Eko and his encounters with the monster. He met it twice but what if he met two different ones? The first one was Jacob and Jacob looked on him favorably. The second one was the rival and after he examined Eko he determined that he would never be able to use a man like Eko against Jacob, so he offed him.

  25. hmm intriguing theory. but i think eko died for not showing remorse about his brother dying because of him. because he forced him into a dangerous situation even when his brother gave him a way out at the end.

  26. Oops, submitted rather than “entered” for space…

    It would be interesting but a stretch for my mind to think of two Smokies.

    I think “Decepticon” or Jacob’s rival was using Smokey in his own plot in seeking the loophole. So, even if some manifestation of Smokey appeared as “good”, it was with ulterior motives. Like another familiar character or two on the show.

  27. Interesting to bring up Cain and Abel. I couldn’t help but think of that during Ben’s “What about me?” speech. That was very reminiscent of Cain. So, the metaphor for me applied to the original Locke and Ben.

    Abel was the shepherd of the people, but Cain had to work the land as a farmer. Abel’s offering was blessed and received. (Locke’s sacrifice for the island?) Cain tried to please the Lord with his offering, but the Lord knew his deceptive, jealous heart and knew that Cain was ‘on the verge’ of being led astray. So, Jacob’s statement to Ben, “you can go…” as in, you have a choice to be the liar/bad guy you are or to walk away, seemed very much like this old testament story to me.

    So that was my perspective.

  28. I like that post highbrow, about Jacob and Rival-dude being able to manifest the smoke monster. I think that the rival was the smoke monster that kept analyzing Locke and sparing him. I’m not on board with the “2 smoke monsters” but I’m on board with both being able to summon/control it. Which one do you think is the one Ben can summon? A third one? lol

  29. Hm, I don’t really know. I guess it could be either. It could be that Ben was being played when he summoned the smoke monster. Maybe it wsa the rival… since the last time he tried to summon it was when he wanted to be judged and it didn’t come because Fake Locke was outside…

  30. Hey, here’s an appealing idea. Remember when Desmond turned the failsafe key and we ended up with a naked Desmond running around in the jungle? What if season six opens with naked Juliet?

  31. I think Ben has been played by Jacob’s rival as much as Ben feels like he’s been used by Jacob. His encounters with Smokey are just part of it, because ultimately, if Smokey was serving Jacob’s Rival, then there is a much grander scheme at play that the Rival needs to accomplish.

  32. Do you think AES is avoiding making comments until the initial hysteria dies down?

    I got no one to talk seriously with…you just want to talk about hot girls today! 😉

  33. There are serious thoughts tucked in there with the “naked Juliet” talk. What do you think about what happened to Juliet being the same thing that happened to Desmond? I’m not prepared to accept that Juliet is dead and gone forever!

    How do you see season six picking up after last nights episode?

  34. If only I had actually submitted what I originally wrote. The things you are missing out on from my dirty little mind.

    Okay, so.

    How did you like the scene with Juliet and Kate coming in on the van shooting the heck up out of everyone? That was hot and worthwhile.

    Okay, I’ll try again.

    I know you can talk serious, I just had to tease you. But wait, hold on, I’ve got to go agree with Dabs on something.

    Tell me your thoughts on Christian while I go post elsewhere for a moment.

  35. Hm, Christian. I’m not interested in seeing him naked. I don’t swing that way and I don’t get the impress that he does either.

    I’m not sure what to make of him really but I think he may be serving the purposes of the rival instead of Jacob. Evidence for this is that he seemed to know that “Locke” was coming when he told Sun and Frank to wait in DHARMAVille for John Locke to arrive.

  36. I agree: no naked Christian.

    And I lean towards Christian being used by the Rival. (Yes, he’s getting capitalization from me.)

    Richard’s line of “In all my time, I’ve never seen anyone come back from the dead…” was HUGE. Don’t you think?

    That to me means that Christian is not Christian.

    That also means that Jacob, if he died in the fire, could be dead. (Or be the exception to the rule because of what’s to come next season.)

    Unfortunately, it could also mean that no naked Juliet for you. The thing that makes her situation different than Des’ was the bomb + electromagnetism. UNLESS…the bomb didn’t go off when we went to white screen (shivers) and the Incident occurred and our Losties became Futuries. Because as he said, “They’re coming.”

    I have another thought on Christian though, but it will take me a minute to have it make sense.

  37. Ahhh….naked Juliet…

    Interesting (and appealing) thought…

    Anyway, think clearly, think clearly…If what happened to Des happens to her, I think that she would choose to change what happened to her (if she could). I don’t think that she would ever go to the island (and Ms. Hawking could never talk her into it).

  38. That’s good… I hadn’t put that together that the “they” that are coming might be the Pasties… Huh, and I thought the Pasties were coming back to the future… I probably should have made that connection.

    If Christian is with the Rival (I’ll capitalize it too) then Richard probably wouldn’t have knowledge of him. They’re on opposite sides… Since Christian seems to make up the entirety of the Rivals army he’s probably more likely to work in the shadows instead of confronting Richard directly and making his presence known.

    As for Juliet… Here’s what I think happens. The bomb goes off and seals the leak as Dan planned. Unfortunately for Dan, Jack, Sayid and the other time changers, Radzinsky survived. Radzinsky goes back after things settle down, finishes the Swan and taps into the electromagnetism as he had originally planned.

    The DHARMA Initiative knows now exactly how to seal off the pocket in case they need to. A low yield nuclear bomb. So they put on in there and attach it to the failsafe.

    So in that case what happened to Desmond when he turned the key is exactly the same thing that happened to Juliet. And therefore… Juliet, nude, stumbling in the woods.

  39. In this case also the changes have failed to change anything. They played a part in it though. They didn’t prevent the plane crash but they made sure that the DHARMA Initiative knows exactly how to seal the breach and therefore they gave Desmond the ability to save the world (maybe) when they stopped pressing the button.

  40. I think the Losties are part of who is coming…Jacob orchestrated bringing them to the island and in “when” they went to.

    At this point, I tend to lean toward Jacob being good and Rival is bad. I think I could be absolutely wrong though and Jacob could be bad and Rival is good.

    I think Sun and Jin now have two very different insights into what has been happening and who they will follow, and once Ben and Decepticon Locke come out of the statue that it will be an awesome scene where new Decepticon thinks that something will happen but ultimately, he didn’t count on Jacob’s resources of bringing people to help him. Those people will include the Losties who will have flashed (no, not naked ‘flashing’) when everything went white.

    Now, where they go will be interesting. If they leave the island and we have to get them to find the island again, that will be a let down for me …. I hope they stay on island. If they somehow don’t flash to unite the timelines, that will be interesting…because I think Jacob needs them for what is to come now that Rival Fake Locke thinks he’s in charge.

    Oh geez. I got interrupted and never finished my Christian thought. I’ll post that next.

  41. If radzinski does attach a bomb to the failsafe it would help explain why nothing to terrible happened when Faraday turned the key. That is still a pretty major hole in the story.

  42. I’m going to be leaving work soon… I might pop in later at home.

    I think the flash we saw at the end of the episode was the last of the Losties in the ’70s. I think they’re in 2007. Bringing them there was Jacob’s final act before “dying”… I don’t think he’s really dead… or, at least not dead for good. But I think Juliet will wake up in the woods on her back completely naked… her hair partially covering her right breast… a finger pressed gently to her lips… wait, where was I? Oh yeah. She’ll be there all Desmond like and the rest will be all “WTF?”…

    As for the nature of Jacob and Rival… I’m not sure they really represent good and evil. Hope and lack of hope. Faith and lack of faith. Maybe Jacob is just hogging all the laundry detergent on the island so he can wear white while Rival needs to wear black so you can’t see the stains?

  43. When he said “They’re coming” I actually expected to see the flash already take the Losties outside so that is who Rival/Locke gets to see. And then I remembered Ilana and Richard, too. I was convinced we would see that before the show ended. So oh well.

    (It will be SO interesting if Sayid and Ilana reunite. I love that Ilana working for Jacob was never posted anywhere!)

    Okay here’s my Christian thought, and then I have another Sayid thought.

    Christian was Rival’s first attempt at ‘proxying’ a body for his purposes of going after Jacob. It didn’t work. He wasn’t the right person, he only knew part of what was to come with Locke. Jacob however, knew everyone all along coming to the island…

    So Christian as a manifestation of Rival/Smokey works in Rival’s favor because of the significant connection to Jack (and Claire.) This might even be where the whole thing about Aaron being possible devil-child is important. Anyway, that is for another time. So manifesting himself as Christian served a purpose because of what will eventually come to be with Jack’s role in either fighting or joining his forces or his side.

    There’s a lot more to it, but it hasn’t even been 24 hours since the show aired, so my brain is going way too many directions.

    The thing about Sayid…

  44. Jacob spared Sayid’s life in him not getting hit by the car, too.

    Bummer for Nadia.

    And the very motivation that would set Sayid down the path of being Ben’s hitman.

    Which would ultimately lead toward Sayid coming back to the island.

    Brutal path, but ultimately, a greater purpose for Sayid.

  45. I hope Sayid is done. Seriously, the character was just getting on my nerves.

    Here’s a hole that I see… the box that Ilana and Bram and them are carrying around with them. WTF? Johns body wasn’t brought to the island in that thing! It came in the coffin. So they have his body in there now… what was in it before? Why didn’t they just bring the coffin with them? It’s got handles… I bet Bram ate all the DHARMA Ranch Dressing…

    Ok, headed home… later!

  46. I kind of hate to put this out there, because I really, really hate Locke…

    BUT…Illy asks richard the shadow question, richard answers (our saviour basically), she says “show him”. The camera pans over the box, kind of showing the shadows and we see lockes body.

    I hate the possibility but it is kind of like Ben’s line “What is coming out of those bushes I can’t control”.

  47. I thought of that line, too, Hurley. As in that was our clue that Smokey (now to be known as Rival) has taken over Locke.

    So are you saying that the real dead-Locke has more to do? Or are you saying that the new-non-Locke-Rival is the savior (not Jacob’s side or ‘team’) even though at that point they didn’t know that Jacob was dead?

  48. well, if I had to speculate/choose,

    I think that Jacob is dead and he won’t be around anymore. I think that he has done, directly, everything he set out to do. He is putting his faith in the Losties/Pasties (including real Locke) to fight/win the war.

  49. If Jacob is dead, there is still plenty to show about him, so I would be fine with that. They could show a lot of flashes (forward and back) (not naked flashing, Kim and Highbrow, lol) from Jacob’s actions/life and it would be satisfying.

    I think Rival is Jacob’s shadow, so to speak, and the answer to what lies IN the shadow … i.e. the “he who will save us all” line could be that the real Locke really is the “chosen one” we’ve been led to believe all along.

  50. Well, no I wasnt waiting on anything, I was busy today, but I wouldnt have commented anyway…
    Except for the response by highbrow about Locke pushing me into fire off the cliff, in which I would have said,
    “I guess I was the only one who assumed that it really was the real John Locke.”
    and ignored the intentions of the meaning behind it…

    Oh, and on the way down, thought, hey, at least I made a decisive decision.

  51. Oh AES, It was a loving reminder of all the things said last week…

    I think it’s just fine if you don’t comment…obviously, everyone is all fired up right now. But you are fun to hear from and I can’t wait for some of your thoughts.

    (They pulled the old Mad-Eye Moody switch on all of us. Not just you. The foreshadowing was there, but it’s all hindsight now.)

  52. Also, I am pretty sure John wasnt dead, when pushed out the window, because I am pretty sure we saw his eyes open and head move before Jacob touched him.

    Im guessing that the people touched, were people that Jacob wanted to come to the island.

    I couldnt help but notice the possible starwars like reference of good and evil shown in the light and dark colors of Jacob and the “decepticon’s” clothes…

    I loved seeing Ben get tricked, by anyone, but thats what he gets for killing John off island, for all the good intentions of the island and whatnot, its a mans actions that define him, not intentions, and I hope Ben, good guy or bad, pays the price for the murder of Locke…

    The real John was the only one who ever really seemed to have good intentions for the island, and willing to sacrifice anything…believe one thing, once Richard takes a breath of thought and looks at the corpse in the box, he will know who the man imitating Locke is, especially if he came from blackrock.
    This will add depth to the story more than anything else, and Richard may be the only one who knows how to stop the antiLocke…

  53. I think about Christian mythology, and think about how satan is always depicted to return as a false savior, and this couldnt be more on the money…not saying that the man is satan, but some version possibly.

  54. Heres the biggest question.
    If these morons with the box, and the stupid Latin answer to the “shadow” riddle had Lockes body, why the hell didnt they say something before the antiLocke and Ben left with the boat, or even before.
    Yeah, maybe they found him on the island, but it is still amazing that they knew where they were going, and with all the pit-stops antiLocke and Ben made, they still were late to the party.

  55. Curious on the foreshadowing…
    Ben didnt have a clue that it wasnt the real Locke, and also wasnt lying to Sun when he said about not knowing how John was up and about post death.
    The best part, when Locke started with the “elephant in the room” conversation to Ben, was it all just part of the plan?
    I was partially wondering if Locke was resurected, and when he went into the jungle, the decepticon knocked him out/killed him, and took over his form at that point.
    Then a bigger question…who else could this man have taken form of over the last 5 seasons that slipped past us?
    We saw sooooo many 180s from so many characters that just didnt fit their persona, I have to wonder if this man is a puppetmaster of more than just a Locke puppet…

  56. AES, Ilana and Bram were distrusting of anyone who couldn’t answer the question!

    They were also under the impression that Jacob could be found in the cabin. That took up some of their time to detour, in order to catch up to ‘the others’.

    Jacob’s nemesis could have appeared as many people over the past 5 seasons, as easy as the smoke monster did.

    It would appear that he is the ‘great trickster’!

  57. AES, hadn’t thought that maybe john lived for a bit as a resurrected being before Rival somehow took him over. If this turns out to be the case, why the timing of it all? Why didn’t Rival overtake John sooner, and take Ben to kill Jacob earlier? Maybe because Richard finally accepted Locke as the leader and would take Decepticon to Jacob? Because he was waiting for Ben to be ready to kill Jacob?

  58. AES, I didn’t neglect to mention also that I too chose Locke as the one I’d follow… wasn’t making a personal attack.

    Yeah, I wonder who else he’s been… I’m reminded of Jack way, way back when… The smoke monster killed Jack and they ran and Jack vanished for a bit and said he jumped in a bush…

  59. great point about Jack, highbrow! I ALWAYS wondered about that moment!! Although I can’t completely buy into him being smokey/Rival the whole time, I can believe he was influenced by him or something in some way because of that moment …

  60. I would think the reason he didnt take over John sooner, was because he didnt have the opportunity to, unless we see the takeover, which im sure we will, its a possibility…

    Highbrow, I know, i was just the phrasing(mine)…and the fact that my name was in it (also mine) was why I responded…no need for explanation…

    There are many scenes where we see a different looking, darker eye on some, and I slightly assume it may have been “Rival” as well…btw…where did that name spawn?

    Dabs…excellent call on the cabin, slipped my mind, still though, why let a false Locke leave, knowing very well it wasnt him.
    They obviously had intebtions of showing the others…so unless they found him later, it doesnt make sense…Also, great, John was in the box, and the weapons were previously…kind of takes the fun out of the original ‘box’ mystery…

  61. That makes sense, AES. I hate having to wait so long to find out!

    I don’t understand Ilana’s reaction to Locke/Ben in the outrigger scene. Why allow Ben to shoot Cesar, and let a version of the dead man in the box go free?

  62. AES, It seemed as though they were only willing to share the information with whomever could answer the question. I saw this as a trust issue, and I understand why it was for them.

    I’m not sure how much time elapsed, but I can honestly tell you, that seeing Locke fall out of that box, surprised me!

    The coffin had nothing on that one! lol

  63. As for the cabin, I believe we have seen it move before, as well as catch fire and still be fine later on, I doubt its the end of the cabin.

    I do believe that Ilana and Bram wanted jacob to die, they burnt Jacobs cabin, kept the dead Locke, allowing the false to leave, and went to Jacobs true home.

    This also leads me to believe that Widmore, against Brams word is in on killing Jacob.
    When they picked up miles, he told him he was playing for the wrong team.
    Widmore seems almost disgusted with the idea of Jacob, and I often wonder if that is the simple reason he wanted Locke to return to the island, so he could be used by the rival to kill him, and possibly allow him to be able to return to the island.

  64. AES, great point about Widmore. I am on board with that one for sure!

    I feel the reason the wanted to recruit Miles, may be in fact, because they knew something of Jacob and his impending death.

    We cannot forget about the reason why the needed Miles, who can speak to the dead!

  65. AES, I have stated on another post, that we cannot presume that between Jacob and his nemesis, who is good and who is not.

    We’ve been done this road before with Ben & Widmore.

  66. I will say, you are correct on the John Locke seeming dead until touched by Jacob after the fall, I rewatched the scene, and noticed the same as you stated…

  67. Wow, that was unfortunate. In my last comment I meant to say the smoke monster killed the pilot, not Jack… geez.

    “Rival”, as far as I can tell, started in the Lostpedia article and it seems to have stuck. I don’t like it though because we really don’t know if that’s the kind of relationship they really have.

  68. I can handle calling him Rival since we know:

    a) He wanted to kill him and went to great lengths to get it done
    b) The statements “Locke” made in his journey to find Jacob – “once he’s gone, everything will change…”, etc.
    c) Their overall disagreeing perspectives they shared in the opening scene.

    Sure, Rival implies opponent seeking to gain a victory or power of sorts…and we don’t know for sure what’s going on…but for now, it works for me. Whether he’s his rival, opposite, ‘counterbalance’ – whatever…he wanted to KILL him….not live in ‘agree to disagree’-harmony together. 🙂

    Watched the episode again, btw. First time, Juliet/Sawyer scene was bummer but didn’t do anything for me…second time, a little more emotional. I love how she said “Sonofabitch” to end it.

  69. And boy do I ever have an opinion on Jacob, which I know people (myself included) have said so many things, i.e, “we don’t know that he’s ‘good’ or the one to trust…” I just think we had a key scene that made their point on it.

    HB, I haven’t finished my coffee so I can’t remember…Have you weighed in yet w/your thoughts on him?

  70. Oh Jacob? hmmmmm…. I don’t think I really laid into the issue with specificity… I might need some more time to process that. I’ve been thinking about other things which I’ve gone into futher in the theory I just posted. I kind of hit the subject of Jacob there a little. What are your thoughts?

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