Double time….Double Locke…Double bunnies…

Hello, a few questions on the Orchid Orientation Video from Comic Con a couple of years ago…

If you havent seen it, hit Lostpedia, YouTube, or try this Link…

It seems fairly obvious that something was set incorrectly, or a malfunction on the machine that the Dharma Initiative was using to conduct tests on the bunnies in the video.

When Chang realizes that there is another bunny in the room, and it is the same as the one he is holding…something has gone terribly wrong.

What most likely occured, was when they set the machine and in the future, they sent the bunny back to the past, which is the present scene that we saw on the video.

The bunny appears out of nowhere, and causes a panic among the DI scientists, and especially Dr Chang.

The question I pose is…what are they so panicked about?

What would happen if they came in to contact, that causes Chang to scream. “Dont let them near each other!”?

Would they mesh into one bunny, explode/disinigrate on contact, have aneurisms ala timejumping…

Or would the whole universe just collapse???

And to take the questioning one step further into the finale of Season 5…

Are the two John Lockes actually composed of the same matter (are they both John Locke’s DNA at the same time) as the bunnies are, and if they are and came into contact with each other, would the effects be as disasterous as if it were two of the same time travelling bunnies from different time periods?

And yes, I understand about changes in DNA taking place and it technically wouldnt be the same…but Dr Chang is certainly concerned, so for the (fun) sake of Lost, What is the relavence to his concern?

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Abbot Enheduanna Schwarzschild Name meaning: -Abbot: Father defined by or in religious connotation/definition. From the beginning, Lost was riddled with religious tone and it was obvious it would play some sort of role. Seemed fitting to start here. -Enheduanna: Mesopotamian High Priestess and the modern civilization’s first recorded poet. I created the name after season 1. John explaining backgammon history to Walt spawned the idea that the island may have a link yo the beginning of civilization and maybe even time itself. It was “poetic” and important to add this to my pseudonym. I needed the mother of poetry in modern civilization to match the religious “Father” in my first name. -Schwarzschild: Reference to Karl Schwarzschild and Schwarzschild Black Holes. Smoke monsters, hatches, and curing paralysis doesn’t point to black holes…but the sci-fi elements ran deep and obvious. The wheel moving the island and transporting Ben felt like it got plucked from my imagination. A.E.S.

43 thoughts on “Double time….Double Locke…Double bunnies…

  1. very cool video! that was awesome.
    I have no clue what would happen.
    A black hole would form, lol. either that or they would be having rabbit for dinner.

  2. AES, this is a fabulous question! One of the best I have ever seen asked!

    I want to give this some thought, before I comment, so I will sleep on it!

  3. Maybe that was the incident …

    I DO think bringing Locke’s body ‘touches’ something off in the plot. That was certainly their quest.

    Locke is more like Christian than the bunny – to timetravel requires one to ‘multiply like rabbits’, though maybe the manifestation had something to do w/the time jumping, ex. Locke died at the FDW and it was the Double-Locke caging the O6.

    Who has the key to the Double-Locke?

  4. there is a new theory emerging in science which this reminds me off.

    the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states you can never know both position and momentum of a particle, the more accurate one measurement is, the less accurate the other is.

    Some are beginning to speculate that an electron for example exists in all states, in all positions, at all times.

    Imagine someone standing still and dribbling a basketball. It’s the same as saying the ball is at all positions between the hand and the ground and anywhere else on the court all at the same time.

    We simply perceive it in one place due to our limits in time. (1 dimension)

    talk about multi-tasking…

    its like if you laid a piece of 3 dimensional graph paper over the entire universe, there would be an electron (maybe just the same one) on every vertice.

    As you observed it traveling it would manifest from one to the next, but in actuality, it still exists on all points.

    again, this is a theory, or more like a hypothesis.

    talk about trippy… quantum mechanics is very trippy. again for example, we live in 4 dimensions, but some believe there are 10 and/or 26 dimensions. Check out string theory its crazy. If you kept looking on a smaller and smaller scale, eventually physics breaks down and what they are finding can only be explained by these extra dimensions, which make it possible for an electron to be everywhere at the same time. Basically they believe there will never be a grand unified theory. You need one for the smallest of the small. (the stuff that makes up the stuff that makes up electrons) They don’t follow the same rules as the rest of the universe.

    “time exists so that everything doesn’t happen at the same time.”

    truth is indeed stranger than fiction.

  5. maybe god is an electron and he is mad we are wasting his energy. or maybe that’s why evil is winning out, god is too busy traveling from cell phone to cell phone. We have trapped him in our electronic devices and evil is running amok. LMAO

  6. AES, after giving both of your questions some thought, this is what I have come up with.

    I think Dr. Chang may have panicked when the other bunny suddenly appeared because of something called ‘temporal merging’ in time travel.

    This hypothesis may also apply to the two John Locke’s in the same time-line. Only in this instance we have one John Locke who is definitely dead already, so not sure how this applies.

    For example, if a time traveller were to meet up with their double from another time, the double would merge to the time traveler, making the traveler a part of the time they are in.

    A similar thing would happen with events, merging the two events into the nearest event that does not produce a paradox such as a dead grandfather in one universe but not in another.

    This would either create a dead grandfather in both universes, but alter the person

  7. The Losties most definitely have had an impact during the time period of 1974-1977, that has never been disputed. But the impact they’ve had always happened. Every time someone tries to argue against Whatever Happened, Happened they say that the Losties have had an impact so there must be change but that is simply false. The Losties have had an impact, that is definitely true, but there is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that they’ve had a different impact. Not different. Impact but not change.

    What was Chang so concerned about is an excellent question and it’s been asked by every single person who has seen that video. It will be interesting and quite possibly a major reveal when we find out.

  8. Dabs the temperal merging you speak of sounds kinds the same as to what happend to des when he time travelled, I don’t think it would matter if the two rabbits touched each other I just think was being shocked and scared but if two humans from different times met I think it would send 1 of them crazy can u imagine how Locke would of reacked if it was his future self instead of Richard who came out the bushes and not Richard he would probly of had a melt down. On your what happend happend like I said before after everything calmed down in the video wouldn’t chang have to say ok now we have to send this bunny back in time otherwise nothing that just happend wouldn’t of happend and he can’t decide not to send it back and change the past because it has already happened. Sorry for grammer I’m on me iPod

  9. Hi Samson, I am not certain if this is what Dr. Chang’s concern was, but it is one idea of what I think it might be.

    As for the 2 Lockes, it is getting down to the point, where we may have to realize another aspect of time travel to logically explain.

    I am not sure how these concepts really work, and how they all fit together. I must catch up on some reading.

  10. highbrow, I am going to take a wild guess, and say that last comment was also addressed to me.

    Your thoughts on ‘whatever happened, happened’, and ‘no change’, et el, have been duly noted, numerous times but, thanks for continuing to point it out. lol

  11. dabiatchishere: So, bringing Locke’s body to Locke could cause a merge w/MIB.

    I always thought Jacob’s “what about You?” too glib and all this off-island touching just part of a big plan.

  12. There are some sci-fi movies that have featured something similar (Time Cop and the Philadelphia Experiment 2). In both movies doubles of characters touched and were killed. Still other movies have doubles meeting each other and nothing happens. My own view is that nothing would happen since the same bunny is not in the same place at the same time. There is a scene at the end of the Doctor Who episode “the Two Doctors” that can illustrate this. After seeing the 2nd Doctor leave in the TARDIS the Doctor’s companion turns to the 6th Doctor and inquires how they were supposed to leave. the 6th Doctor responds that it wasn’t his TARDIS, his TArdis was a 10 minute walk away from where they were.

  13. I do seem to remember scenes from various sci-fi books and movies that dealt with the time travel paradox in which the same character comes in contact with itself in what would be dire ways. Maybe the producers were trying to give us one of those scenes that were supposed to remind us of an older movie or something as they have with so many other things on the show.

  14. I was reading up on time loops and the butterfly effect among other things related to Lost when I found the Novikov self-consistency principle. This is the wikipedia explanation

    “Stated simply, the Novikov consistency principle asserts that if an event exists that would give rise to a paradox, or to any “change” to the past whatsoever, then the probability of that event is zero.”

    There are other ideas in the article so if anyone wants to read up on it check it out, pretty cool stuff.

  15. Maybe this is why Locke’s body is the only one not missing.

    All of the other bodies that have been reanimated are gone, but they found Locke’s in the plane.

    Maybe Anti-Locke can’t come in contact with his former self! Maybe that is the weapon Widmore was referring to when he said John needed to be on the right side for the war, maybe he just meant John’s body!

  16. dear a.e.s

    what are the rules of time travel? the thought alone brings compulsive thought provokation!
    what joy would fill my cranium, for the thought of creating time rules, for a nation!

    i do believe what im saying here, is,before i think of an answer, i pose a question as an answer.

    what if lost, as a side note to the plethora of images and morals, has decided to rite its own rules on time travel!
    their own unique, and complex way of explaning the unexplainable!

    i bid you fairwell, yours, the earl of Rochester.


  17. The Earl of Rochester! lol you make a very good point losts-columbo!

    The more I read on time travel and the paradoxes, etc., etc., the more I think there is no reason why they can’t do exactly as they please!

    It took ‘royalty’ to point that out to us all. lol

  18. well, i see you take heid to my ramblings and musings, mrs….t?

    there is no answer, to the reasons of love, and we know love exists.
    but there is no answer to time travel, as it seems, like love to exist, but for the later, it seems its love is invisible!

    and what is a time travel theory to do about its lovless flight, simply, change the facts, and point out, its love comes from many distriputers and creators!

    … lady.


  19. I do take to your ramblings and musings, sir! And, that would be Miss T. lol

    You are most correct, about there being no real answer to time travel, especially in a show that is a ‘science fiction’ show, no less!

    The writers, have full creative reigns to present any and all aspects of time travel.

    As I read the many different elements that the writers have used to tell Lost, they could have been drawing on any mixture of things.

    Yes, I am your lady!


  20. mrs t,

    if what you tell me is true, then a thought dreamt up, is biting the hand that feeds you.
    to take mix and muddle thoughts on time travel, is never something new, perhaps some confusion, come this way through.
    in a way our senses have been made gross, but with lost, we contrive, for our six, contradictes out five!

    my, lady!


  21. Are you trying to befuddle your lady with your fine English prose?

    I would never bite the hand that feeds me, for I am a rose!

    Some of my choices remain the same, and I am learning, that there is more to this ‘time travel’ game!

    I enjoy your mind, and as always, you are ever so kind!


  22. confusion bestose my prose,but its too keep your mind a worrking, and keep it on its toes. for in your ind somewhere, is genious, i see it lurking.

    to learn more is to keep on trying,
    for more knowledge you bite and tear
    whilst wretched fact is what you fear!
    beacuase fear you arm, and of arms afraid,
    so to fear your fear, you have succesfuly betrayed!

    but with knowledge, comes the lust for power,
    and to this lust i am a slave,
    yet i have no compassion, not even to be brave.

    this conjecture, i must refrain, is not english prose, but with a fine scottish wink, i give you a rose


  23. haha lol losts-columbo, if I really took my time, I could likely respond in kind, but I am obviously not as quick on my toes, as you!

    “Knowledge is power”, IMO. I hunger to learn, and If that is my worst trait, than I am certainly guilty.

    Fear is an enemy I cannot afford the luxury of entertaining.

    I will take your fine Scottish wink, and accept your rose!

    Have a good evening!

    Sleep well, sire!


  24. you are a great listner, like the wise old owl, or the expert whistler.
    however i suppose,
    through thought to thought, we sometimes fal headlong down,
    into doubts boundless sea, we like to often drown! the endless prose of books bear us p a while, to help us try,
    with limitless boundaries of philosphy.

    and as my eyes can see the dazling light,
    im spent, im going for the eternal night,

    now desent darkness unto my eyes,
    as quickly as the owl dies.
    ill speak with you soon, teresa
    i like you abundantly, you take care,
    and upon this point, its not to severe.

    …… lady………


  25. Wow…I really didnt anticipate this many responses. I will address individually in a bit…but for now some overall thought.

    Although I do appreciate the subject of Locke taking control, I question more the bunnies for simple reasoning that they were demanded apart by Chang… but it is obvious that a close proximity will not cause effects. The question of Locke was brought to head for a separate reason, mainly of magnitude…but lets focus on the bunnies first.

    Has anyone read Hawkings “A Brief History of Time”?

    I know, I know…Its never been talked about before on a Lost Theories site…

    So Hawking seems to have at least a say in the thought of time travel, and his book pops up on the freighter in season 4.

    His thought is the “disintegration” idea.
    It has to do with anti particles vs particles, opposite rotation, blah blah.

    Regardless… if I am to believe a person in regards to the thought of time traveling and the effects/ side effects, it would most likely be him.
    Im not saying that he IS right about everything he says, its known that many dispute his theories. But his credibility and respect carries more weight in most of our lifetimes than anyone I can think about since Einstein.

    Whatever the reason, the video we saw being used for the orientation was not an experiment, it was a demonstration for “new recruits” to help save the world.

    I would assume that they have done this with the bunnies before, and for whatever reason contact between them would be signifigent.

    If nothing would occur, why would he be so quick to keep them away from each other.

    By being in same space at same time, I think it means more along the lines of the particle that make up the physical body.

    Which to me physical contact would be more scientific, specifically physics related which can be read more in length in Hawkings book.

    Now the only question is, is he correct, and if so…are they going to follow his theory?

  26. I’m not going to say that they’ve never run into this problem before where they suddenly have two of the same bunny in the same place and some horrible event takes place because of it… but it might be more simple that that.

    Maybe it hasn’t happened. What if Chang, being the brilliant scientist that he is, is capable of knowing what could possible happen if the two were to meet? The two bunnies touch and nothing happens. Or, the two bunnies touch and the universe unravels. I think the one thing he can be reasonably sure of is that if the two bunnies touch it won’t part the clouds, make a rainbow and bring peace to the Middle East. So why chance it? Why let it happen? It could mean that the answer to that question would be the last thing Chang would ever learn.

    “Oh my God, get the away from each other! This could be very bad… or something

  27. Yeah yeah….very bad…

    Thats kind of my problem though.

    I cant help but imagine the bad that Chang is frightened of either would have to do with the universe unraveling (rather unlikely in my opinion, maybe what we are supposed to think)…or the bunny(s) being destroyed (more plausible answer).

    What would that mean if something did happen to the bunnies, be it disinigration, explaosion, etc…

    This bothers me because its one of the first big time travel issues, occuring in Lost history even pre nose bleeds/ anyeurisms.

    I think that the effect would have to be negative, and as Highbrow pointed out, could possibly even just be what Chang has figured out on paper ala Stephen Hawking, and not something that he has actually experienced.

    I feel this video was too important to let slip away any longer, and it has to come back around at some point to bring the issue to the front line.

    I truly feel it will be a major role in Losts final season, but the “how” bothers me so…

  28. Yeah, the universe unraveling is pretty unlikely… I was just trying to make a contrast between the best and worst case scenarios.

    I’m not sure how much the video will actually mean in the end… maybe all it was meant to do was introduce the idea of time travel to the show and to build up some drama around it… Or it could be huge…

  29. Ok, so say just for a minute that they did make the video with a purpose in mind…

    Lets for a moment pretend that the fact that there are 2 bunnies in which Chang flipped out about can have negative effects if they do come into contact….

    What would that actually mean.

    I am to assume at the very least that it is going to be bad for the bunnies, most likely leading to death for good ol’ #15…if that does occur, would that apply to both entities of the rabbit?

  30. Well yeah, if anything is going to happen I’d assume that its going to be bad for the bunnies. But I also have to assume that if they know for sure that something terrible is possible they’d be a bit more careful when running their experiments and demonstrations.

    I’m not saying that nothing would happen or that if something did happen it wouldn’t be really bad but I think there’s a good possibility that the video was just put in there to introduce time travel to Lost. Chang’s reaction doesn’t really give us much to go on because we don’t have anything conclusive to go on. Is he scared because he’s seen this before? If so then how bad can it really be? He’s still alive, right?

  31. I dont expect this to occur in other experiments post video.

    I thought the knowledge by Chang in the demonstration was from experience through earlier experimentation, or as you said, his knowledge of the situation from the more physics/mathematics aspects being the brilliant scientist that he is, which I agree with fully.

    But I see this as a foreshadowing event of something coming in the final season.

    I think that the time travel is not fully gone, and we will see again, more than one entity of an individual on the island in the same time period…which is why I really ask the question originally.

  32. Time travel in season six will be minimal in my opinion. It’s going to happen though… mainly at the very beginning of the season. I can’t imagine them ending the show neatly while still telling a disjointed story taking place in multiple times. Season six will start with whatever time travel is necessary to bring everyone together and that will be the end of it.

    I can’t see which character there would be two of in the same time except maybe Locke but his situation is obviously very complicated and not really understood. It would be an interesting topic to see covered on the show but I don’t think they’re going to go there.

  33. Ok, heres the thing thats bothering me about all this.

    If what Chang fears is some sort of bad news for the bunnies, in my mind, based from Stephen Hawkings mind, the bunnies would evaporate/disintagrate each other…there has to be a consequence, otherwise it would be quite a worthless video.

    Its fairly obvious by that point that there was going to be some time travel, and the video showed us that as well.

    And I cant help but think that there would have been another way to show us time travel, than have a scene break out as did there.

    Regardless, here is my problem.

    If this does occur, than the bunnie that went BACK in time, or whichever was the earlier ‘model’, if destroyed, could never go back in time to destroy itself.

    And if the bunny went foreward in time and caused it, then the bunny who travelled would not have another version of himself to destroy.

    Regardless, I cannot see how this would be a concern, since there would be no way to accomplish this without seriously disrupting the universes course…

  34. So here’s the thing that bugged me: the titles of two major episodes this season– “Whatever Happened, Happened” and “Dead is Dead” were apparantly proved false. The fact that WHH was presumably proved false was the catalyst for the dramatic season 5 finale. In other words, the Losties deciding that whatever happened didn’t need to happen was the reason for the a-bomb detonation. Dead is Dead was apparantly proved false when we saw Locke.

    At the end of season 5 however, we were left with the body of dead Locke….proving that maybe, Dead is Dead after all. And maybe Whatever Happened really did happen and Jack and Co. just made a crazy mistake. I don’t know.

  35. Understood about the bunnies, I actually doubt we will see them again at all in that context.

    But what I do NOT doubt, is that the meaning of the video will play a role.

    I think that there will be another ‘incident’ of sorts, that will be due to 2 beings existing together in the same time periods, as the bunnies did in the video…but with more time and events in between their meeting point.

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