The Greatest Theory I Have Ever Seen…

I’ve been trying to think of a logical way to tell what I think is going on in Lost…and realized the
difficulty in trying to bring logic…to the illogical.

Every scenario, every theory has another way to go…another direction…a better option when
things are perceived so very differently, by so very many people. And right now, I’m going to push
your perception to its limit…a test if you will… I’ve read and written theories… And I have
discussed, debated, and some may argue fought over them…all of which is true.
I understand and respect a good heated debate, because when we are telling our theories, we
are telling a little about ourselves. Lost punctures the outer layer of what we know and believe.
From religion and faith, to science and technology… to history, mythology, psychology, and

These are things that are built to create not only the Lostie’s characters, but our own.
I love doing this so very much, and regret that although I will obviously continue to interact,
comment, and even post theories…this is the last preseason theory that I will probably write with
any serious intention barring some under a rock, new discovery in the Lost universe…

So regardless of how this theory turns out, what has happened in the past, and what will come in
the future and end of Lost…I just want to say that this has been a blast, and I never in a million
years would have thought I would care about a television show, a theory site, or for that matter,
the opinions, feelings, and people themselves that post here…If I have offended you in any way,
I apologize here, and If I didn’t, I hope you at least enjoyed my theories, even if not agreeing…

They get out of control sometimes in topic, comments, debating, and just plain crazy ideas that
seem ridiculous at the time…and every once in a while make sense…I intend this one to be no

If you enjoyed my past theories, you will probably enjoy this one…if not…thanks for reading any

Well, enough of the semantics and boo-hoos, it’s just a theory site after all :,[

Let’s get down to brass tacks…

Question, pry, present, or debate, I am open to options, suggestions, advice, or scrutiny… but I
think that we are at the end of the rope, and I want to get my real theory of what is going on
out before the beginning of the end truly begins…right or wrong…
This is some ideas based on fact, some on logic, some on debating…and some just of my own
imaginations, predictions, and of course…hope. It’s more than just a theory…

Before you read this, you need to ask yourself how much you trust Eloise Hawking…if you trust
her, and believe her words…then you are not going to believe mine.
She is wrong. I don’t know if she has been manipulated, it’s very likely, or if she is lying, but
regardless of the reasoning, this is the truth in my opinion.

I believe what happened to Desmond after he turned the failsafe key is the very same thing that
is happening to the Losties who were near the Incident zone.
I believe whole heartedly the Desmond Hume had the ability to change the past when he “flashed”
back to his past and spoke to Hawking in and out of the jewelry store in “Flashes Before your

I think that a small scale demonstration is when we know the first time he was there, Jimmy
Lennon hits the bartender in the head with the bat.

The second time after turning the failsafe key, he travels back to his past via “flashes”, and due
to knowing this knowledge, tells the bartender to duck, being struck in the head himself.
This is the first time we see an event off island, in the past, have any sort of effect on someone
who in my opinion, time traveled via conscience travel… and are meant to see the difference.

The most important part, is when Desmond wakes up after the “memory”, just like he does upon
remembering Dan’s words, he remembers it the way it was different…and even rubs the back of
his head as if he can still feel the blow.

I know, I know…What happened, happened …to the island.

But I believe that when Desmond flashed and Hawking told him he had to do everything exactly
the same…she either lied, or was told by someone to tell him this and convince him to return.
I have made allegations in the past, some may be false, some may be true…I think that the
specifics of it were incorrect, but the ideas were in the right place…

I believe that what occurs on the island, occurred…it’s done for now, and there was no visible
change up to this point…slightly (shut up Highbrow) different than what I said last season…Ok,
completely different… But as everyone knows… as we are given more episodes….ideas change.

But I would like to think of this idea as a mutation. I still believe in the things I did, I’m just
applying them to different situations based on the finale and obviously info that ABC hands us
such as character returns in promos on television. Hey, no one here can say I’m not honest. I
admit my faults and research information, and will continue to do so until the very end.
Change, I believe very much still exists. The question of how does something change, and the
events still occur from the entire show lead us to the ever popular alternate timeline option.

What I believe resembles change, and creates this alternate timeline of sorts that everyone is
talking about, is what occurred OFF of the island.

Highbrow mentions a very good point in his recent post that Libby goes from being your run of the
mill people, to a loony bin with an interest for Hurley. She gives Desmond a boat. Dan’s crying…
they are both good points.

It has been mentioned, by myself and others, that Desmond’s words to Jack in the stadium could
have come from his conscience travelling adventure of reliving his life…”What if you DID fix her?”.
I’m sure there are many other examples of this…but time is of the essence…no, no…it is the

I believe that what we see occur off the island is created from what occurs on the island at this
point, beginning the new season.

I believe that the Losties who were in the 70s, and the other people such as Miles, Juliet, etc,
that were not ORIGINALLY part of that time period (meaning if they time traveled there) will
be “conscience travelled” to the plane as it lands in LA, or to their appropriate locations at that

Things will obviously not be the same if this happens.

So I am attempting a compromise here of “What happened happened” actually cause “change” to
occur. What happened happened, on the island, but its consequences affect the past off the

I do not believe that the plane landing in LA is the beginning of a new/alternate timeline, I believe
that it was the incident. The plane landing was occurring already. Things changed in 1977. We
just won’t be shown that part. The losties in range of the incident will be sent via conscience
travel to themselves in that new timeline on the plane.

I think that the link between the peoples conscience in the two…or however many
timelines/loops/alternate time period selves is the key to actually doing something different than
that which was done before off of the island. Because technically…they would have done nothing
off island. Hence, someone travelling back in time, entering at a place that never existed,
because in the past…they were not there, creating the alternate time line. But it does not
originate from that, it originates from the source…the incident. If all the Losties from the incident
are in the timeline that the plane lands…if it lands…is proof that there is an alternate timeline…
hence…my explanation in FUN, “Alternate Timelines 101…”.

If this occurs, I believe that it would be conscience travel that would return them to their past
selves in what we all like to call an alternate time line. The reason I think we say timeline is
because it is caused by something in the past changing on the island…that causes change only
off island. Creating a new iteration branching from where the old one ends or technically
continues to allow the timeline we have been following all along to exist as well…in this case it
ends in 1977 for them, but it does not affect the Losties in range of the “flash” that I imagine will
occur…they just get plopped right in the middle of the new reality/timeline via conscience travel.
I think that from here, we will see them find a way to get back to the island.

*…When the Losties flash to the plane after the incident….that conscience will be flashed to the isalnd from the opening scene of the entire show…and there is your pilot clue…*

I would like to believe that John Locke, Claire, Sun, Frank, or anyone else that is where they are
will not be on the plane.

My initial thoughts are that Desmond Hume and Daniel Faraday are also returned to their time
period/line I believe that with their help, and the resources of Charles Widmore, they will find a
way, whether time travel, plane or…boat ( I always pictured Des and the Family, Charles, The kids
…Walt, Aaron, and possibly Ji Yeon returning via “Our mutual Friend”, back to the island and back
into the time period of the 2007 Ajira/Richard and others/Jacob and Flocke time period… I know…
But the more logical choice would be some sort of conscience travel to another version of
themselves…the possibilities leave SEEMINGLY those two options…physical and conscience… And
at this point, if they go back as some believe, to a timeline where 815 does not crash, the
children would cease to exist…both options have their flaws, and both make sense in different
ways…Are they really going to get on a plane again? What would they conscience travel into…
they have no bodies on the island at that time that we are aware of?

Could this be where we get to see someone travel TO the island in the manner that Ben and
Locke left…because that would be fun…

They must now return and take with them new variables to affect a new timeline, which I assume
will occur on the island that we have always known and loved in 2007. Which is the same that we
see play out with Jacob, Flocke, and Ben in the incident. And as I said before, I believe that the
hatch, Charlie’s Ring, Alex’s room, and Richard and the others are enough for me to believe that
the island went unchanged…So what did change then?

The people… Their knowledge… The people are a way of communicating. Dan tells Desmond to find
his mother, Desmond awakes retaining thins knowledge even though it didn’t happen before…no
world ending paradox, not even an alternate timeline at this point. Just plain old thoughts being
transferred from one existence of you in the past, to one in the future. Desmond didn’t do this
because it had not happened yet. There are two timelines playing out at once for this scenario.

One off the island, one on the island… Don’t think of it as the past and the future… where it would
look like this….

Dan tells des Des Remembers

Think like this…

Dan tells Des

Des remembers

…2 lines…running parallel…

They will leave as Desmond did, back to “replay” a part of their lives…but they will do things
differently this time. They will have to find their way back…they are supposed to be there…but
they just don’t know it yet. I think that we may lose some of the people such as Juliet and Miles
before the others return…it would be fun if they were all on the plane or at least met…I would
have liked to believe that Juliet and Sawyer will meet before she dies…but how? After all Jacob
didn’t bring her there…Ben did.

This fate will be a catalyst for return.

I believe the island, is the “original” time that exists on the planet, possibly from time travel, likely
from the incident …

This is the part that may be difficult to understand or believe…

I believe that the island timeline, is the only timeline that is real…

I believe that ALL off island timelines…are not real in a sense…that they can be changed and
manipulated. They are there, but not there…they existed in the past…before the TRUE time that
exists on the island. They play out all of history, the first being the only real iteration. Every time
someone travels off the island from a different coordinate than they should, it could affect all
reality in that time period. They can be reached at any point by different “windows” in the
islands “radius”. Which is why it was so important that Michael and Walt, the chopper and the
boat all leave at specified coordinates… not so they wouldn’t become sick as Desmond did in the
constant…but so they wouldn’t pop out a minute before they actually left.

Remember the episode when they found the doctor from the freighter dead with his throat slit…
before he actually was killed by Keamy…yeah…something like that.

This was allowed because Desmond turned the failsafe key, thus un-anchoring the island from
where the Dharma Initiative left it, allowing it to kind of roam very slowly throughout time…like the
many example given of a ship floating through space, the island floats through time.

I see off island as something of a “vacation” to all the stresses of the “real world”. If the island is
SO meaningful and necessary, why does Widmore chance it to leave and go off island…because

a) He can be normal…

b) To gain knowledge and power from history.

He cannot get from the island, with all the power in the world, the same kind of life he can have
off island.

Do you remember the scene with Tom and Michael off island (after John blew up the sub and only
way off island) in season 4…Tom is there having drinks with his “friend”?

He is living a life he cannot get on the island no matter how much power the islands energy can
give him…he is happy. He has options. He can do whatever he wants…this will be the first, only,
and last time I reference this movie with Lost, but do you remember the scene in the Matrix when
the guy who is trying to turn on Morpheous is having dinner with the agent…eating steak…
enjoying life in a world that he knows is not real…that’s what that scene reminds me of. Not a
world run by machines, etc…but a vacation away from reality.

Widmore did the same thing, but became power hungry from knowledge, and addicted to a life on
the outside, all the while, not wanting to relinquish his position at the top on island. He learned
more than we think, and couldn’t have predicted Alex’s death any better. His “nightmares” are the
very same as the “dream/memory” Desmond had remembering Dans words.

I have thought before that maybe Charles reinstated the Dharma Initiative off island, after learning from one of them that he brought them on island…but that’s just crazy…

Back to the Losties…

I think it will be their job, to not only return to the island…but return to the island with everyone…

Or “all of them…” as Hawking put it.

Here is the thing about the off island alternate timeline idea…

You can leave the island and pluck out the variables needed for the original, and bring them in to
help solve the equation.

There WAS a timeline that went as it does in the flashbacks….and there is a timeline that went as
it was in the flash forwards. But I think that the scenes we see off island now, as real as they are
to the characters, aren’t all that real at all. They are living out their lives in the time period off
island as if it is real…because they think it is…But the truth is, it is just a past iteration of a scene
in history, that is so very important to the fate of the world, due to the people that are in it that
are supposed to be on the island…for all we know, this could be true from every flashback we
have ever seen. And no, I do not care what the producers have said at this point.

The island has existed forever, and is the only thing left. It “jumps” in and out of time periods
when its energy is utilized. All the technology and equipment in the world, and the Dharma
Initiative couldn’t figure out how to do what a simple wheel was capable of…controlling the island.
These people deserved what happened to them. They wanted to change the world…I’m surprised
they could change a light bulb.

Why can’t MIB kill Jacob… I’m going with one of two options. It has to do with some Holy doctrine
of sorts…no, I don’t think that is correct…Or the ever popular “they are from different time
periods” theory. Why doesn’t it make sense?

MIB or Jacb travels back from the past or future. We can’t change the past right? Did I just say
that? We cant change the past that we were not in.

What we can change is the present. We can change the future in the sense that it hasn’t
happened yet. We watch the Losties try and try again to change the past…to no avail in my
opinion… But why? Because THEY ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE! They are not able to use
their hand to change something that they are not part of. So what happened when they set off
the bomb…nothing. The island time continues on through its timeline, and a past iteration of the
original Lostie flashes away. It affects the people. The outcome stays the same.

This is all one big equation, and the variables are brought in from off island to help Jacob solve it.
That is why I think MIB needed Ben to kill Jacob…because Ben… is now MIBs variable in the

More variables can be added as the timeline is manipulated by the people who “loop” back with
knowledge of the future, or present time line(…the island)…as I feel Jacob did of Locke and the
rest of the Losties…as Charlie, Christian, possibly Eko did to Hurley and Jack…and now Jack and
the “Incident” causers themselves will do it too.

This is where I feel Walt will come into play. I think he is special because he can see time as
Jacob, and I imagine MIB can…without limits…without walls or lines. He carries the same abilities
that Desmond had during his flashes, except controlled. He is also special because he is the only
one who was neither conceived or born on the island, arrived there, and left…learning and
retaining information from other time periods…especially one he belongs in…was it not Jacob that
supposedly wanted Walt to stay? Is there ANY possibility that Walt turns out to be MIB…popping up where he doesn’t belong…being special…absolutely not…

But what I do believe is possible, is that MIB is not…MIB. Meaning the man we saw on the beach with Jacob was being used just as Locke and whoever else…MIB may not even have a form…

Although the timelines off island go on, and life seemingly exist normal, they are past iterations
entered by people from the island to change and manipulate the off island timelines in order to
bring specific individuals to the island to help them in their objectives.

I see a change in the numbers. I think it would be fun if instead of 815, it was 714…or 819…
something to that nature…this could occur everywhere…and for some reason, the numbers would
haunt Hurley yet again.

I also believe that through this device, we may very well see Geronimo Jackson in a real Lost
episode…lol…not likely, but we can dream. Nothing would make me happier to have everyone be
so happy to see Charlie, and have it turn out to be Keith Strutter, lol…again…not likely, but who

…back to the tacks…

The conversation at the beginning of the incident when what seems to be Black Rock appear…
which I don’t really have much of a clue on, except that I imagine it ends up on the island by
travelling thru one of the windows I spoke of above. I think that although it came from the 1800s,
it could have entered into the islands bubble at any point of its timeline.

I think that some way, the wheel of the ship is going to be used as the wheel of the island. I
wrote a theory long ago that explained the similarities, and posted a link to the picture…

I do NOT think that Richard is from Black Rock…it seems a bit too obvious now doesn’t it. I do
think there is a possibility of Widmore actually being from the ship, along with Hanso. I think that
there may be more to that relationship than we realize. Richard is a mystery. All the talk last
season of him being of Egyptian decent does make the most sense to me…but Black Rock is an
obvious number two.

I think that what we see between MIB and Jacob, is a debate between MIB possibly believing in
a “religious/godlike” destined plan (please, interpret that as loosely as possible….no specific
religion), and Jacob believes that he can fix what happened thru the use of Losties,
Alternate/PAST timelines…basically what is most likely the original cause of the end of humanity…
humanity itself.

This is the conversations meaning…in my opinion of course…

It reminds me of Jacob wrestling Michael the Arch-angel .

From Wiki…

“He is viewed as the field commander of the Army of God. He is mentioned by name in the Book of

“Daniel experiences a vision after having undergone a period of fasting. In the vision, an angel
identifies Michael as the protector of Israel . Later in the vision, Daniel is informed that Michael
will stand for Israel during the time of the End .”

“Michael appears as “one of the chief princes who in Daniel’s vision comes to the angel Gabriel’s
aid in his contest with the angel of Persia , and is also described there as the advocate of Israel
and “great prince who stands up for the children of your people”.

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise.”

Does this not remind you of the little prince title?

The odds of this MIB being Michael, an archangel are about as good as Esau or whoever else…so
we’ll see what happens…there’s no way he could be Aaron could he…Aaron was not supposed to be on the island….Hair color makes the opposite make more sense…probably too crazy a thought anyway……?
Kind of makes you wonder what would have happened if Jacob would have won their (possibly and
likely, metaphorical) wrestling match…

Michael was a field commander of the Army of God…God loves you as he LOVED Jacob…is Jacob
not only trying to change the hands of fate…but of a higher source as well…

Did we all really just rule out an option that “faith” could make a return and possibly trounce
science in the end?

There is too much stock put on the side of “faith” from the beginning of the show, and subtly
throughout to rule out any option, and connection of religion/faith in the final season.

Taking notice of the building that The Lamp Post and the Pendulum are in is to me a direct
relation that we have not seen the last of the hand of god, in an un-cheesy, non specific, Lost
type way. Im sure anyone reading this has not only dug up some clue pointing to the “faith” side
of Lost, but at some point before the island disappeared or Des conscience travelled, thought
faith/religion would be the main catalyst in the end…even if just for a second.

I think that we may learn, that the religion of the world that we know, from a Lost perspective,
will be summed up in a matter that will directly relate faith and religion to the scientific properties
that exists from the island that possess the energy to heal people, reincarnate people, allow the
dead to roam, and whatever else kind of craziness that comes about.

I think that we will learn, that people such as Hawking, and possibly Brother Campbell are in on
the charade of teaching and preaching religion…all the while hiding the truth from the world, that
it is not real…That it is a ploy to…

a) Keep mankind in its good graces, having rules and consequences for its actions…


b) Helping to protect the islands power and properties from being discovered by any more people.

I believe it’s possible that Hawking left the island willingly to fulfill her role as “Mother Time” and
keep the balance that she thinks or says is necessary to exist. She learns this is her fate
from….dundundun…Dan’s Journal.

I also think Richard Malkin could be a Hawking Like protector as well. He is a supposed “psychic”,
who wouldn’t allow a priest to examine or even talk to his daughter, knowing that she”
miraculously” rose from the dead. He knows it was science. He knows he is on one of the
many “vortices” of sort, that Hawking states are placed around the world by the Lamp Post, and
connected with the island in some way. I think he is in on the whole thing, and even has a hand
in Claire making it to the island from the beginning. He even tells her he is a fake. He tells Eko that
Charolette was never actually dead…he lies…just like Hawking. I imagine that he had his daughter
given a second chance, on the possibility that upon receiving this gift…he had to get Claire and
maybe Eko on 815…and to the island…

I think that these people serve a purpose. I think that they also are supposed to blend in, making
the idea of using “spiritual” masks to hide the most powerful scientific knowledge in the history of
the world so ironic I could just cry from happiness….I love irony. They are there to make sure the
world we know…stays in balance…and continue to exist. And not JUST exist…but exist the way
they want it to, to protect what is truly important…the island, which in turn…is the real world.
They are the world’s first and only secret society, making different versions to fit the times that
exist in the world off the island. Churches and religious groups, Psychics, Templars…Illuminati…?

The Pendulum in the Church/Lamp Post is eerily similar to the one described in the book “Focault’s
Pendulum”… something Dabs and I conversed about…which seems so long ago… a book based on
the idea that a secret society hid something very powerful somewhere in the world…

There are also some clues towards the idea of a secret society, in my opinion loosely based on
the Illuminati.

It is a word that is synonymous with “enlightenment”, which right away reminds me of the spoken
of battle between “light versus dark”. So many things point to light being important…The Lamp
Post, The Flame, FLASHES before your eyes, the light from the frozen donkey wheel chamber, the
fire pit Jacob meets his demise…they are all VERY important and relevant scenes, clues, devices
on the show that scream the possibility of this being true…not enough…

Take Dr Pierre Chang’s alias…or …pseudonyms…Wickmund, Haliwax, and Candle…simple and likely
unimportant, or clues simply pointing to an object that produces light…

Ekolocation reminded me about the sun in the tapestry…which reminds me of the eye in the tapestry

If none of these examples mean anything, and the Illuminati references are nothing more than
ideas in my head…of course that would also mean that Juliet explaining “Others 101” that Latin
was meant for “the enlightened” as nothing more than wordplay…we still don’t believe in
coincidences do we…?

There is a book that I and at least a few others here have read, Achalli I know has, and see
comparisons to Lost.”The Illuminatus Trilogy” One of the many things you get from it, is a story
about the Illuminati originating from an island with special properties (non specific). The race is
branched from a tree that history left destroyed. One of the basics that I got from the book is
that they lived freely, without real law or evil on the island…until someone with all too human
instincts. It took one person to open up the curiosity in his mind, and wonder what more could be
obtained than simple existence. Advanced technology was pushed to the forefront, and in turn,
destroyed all but a piece of the island they called home.

The survivors left before it was too late, and assembled randomly around the world assuming the
identity of normal people, watching…making what they want to happen…happen….in every sense
of the word.

Also in the book, there is reference to an OURBOROS–which is the sign of continuous life…or a
new beginning…If you look very closely at the necklace that Hawking sports during her
conversation with Desmond during “Flashes”…it is the very same symbol around her neck…
conveniently placed off island…where life continues on, possibly with new beginnings.
The island also has its own local monster as well…The Yog Sothoth…I see a resemblance between
the two, but nothing worth doing a cartwheel over…well…maybe the shape shifting abilities would
be a handstand. This is my take on the monster…

I believe it is made of elements, regardless of whether a person transformed, a demon, a yog-
sothoth (Some Like It Hoth?), a worker of good or evil…or just a pissed off monster…
We know it can float and move through the air. We know it can materialize, have contact, and
move through the earth. We know it can be summoned by unplugging a puddle of dirty water, and
most importantly, we know that it can produce “flashes” (fire?). I cant get it out of my head now.
An elemental moster with the capability to cause flashes…but why flashes?

I think that these flashes allow two things…

1)To be able to be or have a relationship in terms of a constant with the island regardless of the time frame…(thank you Dabsi)…

2) Be able to read peoples conscience and soul through use of the flashes…just as Desmond conscience travelled every time he saw a flash, and the failsafe key, and the incident.

I think its flashes are its way of communicating/understanding. It reads peoples souls or
conscience. I’m not sure if it’s from the past, present, or future…but its purpose does indeed
seem to point to protecting the island.

It has had several opportunities to destroy Locke…and not yet done so…It has to mean
something. It judges, it tries, and it executes…all in the purpose of protecting the island.
I believe that it is also a monster of science, created in some way from the islands properties…but
that doesn’t mean we will not learn it has a relationship to the faith side either…but that will be
something we will not learn until the very end (if at all)…but I truly feel that the monsters hands
will be the ultimate fate of MIB… … … … …if they are not one in the same…very possible…just not
in my story…

I believe that we will continue to be shoved a reasoning of science, to explain many of the issues
show, as we have the last season and a half…making us believe that faith is all but dead.I believe
this thought may be pushed again early on in the season, in yet another attempt to blind us from
believing that Faith will make its return.

In the end, I think it will be a faith/religious/miraculous act; unexplainable by science, led by none
other than John Locke, who may be the reincarnation of MIB…most likely “assisted” by jack (and
maybe Aaron or Walt, that will cause what is ultimately…the Lostie’s true destiny…helping “the
team that’s going to win”…win.

There is more to this than just science…or science fiction for that matter…there is destiny…why
does it have to be science that means destiny? I always perceived destiny to be more of a matter
of a spiritual journey.

I think that is why these characters have such a connection.
I think the convenience of destiny is due because as these people are the ones to have really
lived, and been a main part of the islands timeline…fate always brings them back no matter where
or when they go…once you are on the board…you have to finish the game.

I questioned the shows morals in terms of the soul. How does one travel back in time, change the
past, or even have an alternate timeline and still be able to allow a possibility that a faithful,
religious soul exists. If they’re in a loop or alternate reality…when does it arrive at a final resting
place? Can it? Is that possibly the reason for all this…to free those who are stuck in this endless,
looping, and/or infinite alterable existence?

I have been thinking about all the off island “visions” that people have seen…all the things that
pop up that remind them of the island…random memories…they are all there, because as much as
these people are not on the island…it is still a part of their main timeline…which they are not in
anymore, but they still belong to.

Take Des and Dan’s memory/dream/de ja vu type experience…Dan told Desmond to find his mother
on the island…in the past…on the island.

Desmond was awoken in the night off the island by the memory, because I feel that the time that
is running off island, although a different time period/line, still runs parallel with the line the island
is running.

Kind of like “If its 8pm in California and 11pm in New York, whoever wins the super bowl in Miami
still wins at the same TIME in both places, just not the same time on a clock we all know.
Apply this to Lost, and Dan tells Des something he never learned before while time travelling to
Desmond’s past of say 2001…Des not only learns that in 2001…he retains it and remembers it in
2007…for the first time.

Two differnt timelines…

That’s why I think that Michael cannot pull the trigger, or John Locke cannot die…because they
are simply not supposed to there or then. There could be a point where reincarnation could
explain this in the sense of being reincarnated into an alternate timeline or reality.

Hurley’s ability to talk and see the dead, Miles to read them… Maybe they are technically “Dead,
but here…”… Sound familiar? I think Hurley’s gift is special, and he is able to use it more than he
believes, as Miles does. He just chooses not to because he feels that its actually his craziness. I
think that when he realizes, he will be able to use it to talk to Jacob, as I say in my “Ring Around
the Rosies…” theory…and/or possibly even John Locke. I can just hear that all too familiar voice
from nowhere…”Hello Hugo…”…camera pans to John Locke. I believe

Hurley will eventually be the one who plays the numbers over the radio signal. This has been
theorized long ago, and something I adhere to.

Jack has an ability to fix people. He can perform almost miracles…didn’t Jacob seem to have
brought Locke back to life after the fall? More on him in a minute…

Christian Shepard is the Smoke Monster. Christian Shepard is MIB. Both of these things make
sense…but I am not here to make sense today, and I completely disagree. I believe that he is
neither of the characters. Was he speaking on Jacobs behalf…I say yes. I think that he is trying
to help our Losties. I believe that when he told Locke to turn the wheel, he meant it. And when
Locke let Ben do it, it was a mistake. I think he was trying to help Locke find his son, and bring
him to the island…which is why I mixed him in with these characters to define. I believe he is none
other than Christian Shepard himself. I know there are other ways to view this, but this makes
sense to me. I think everything he said to Jack that bothered him was in his best interest. I
believe that Christian knows more than we do, and is prepping his son for greatness. Jack has
trouble telling the difference between his father helping him, and treating him like a child. He also
has trouble understanding that above all, most of the things Christian tells Jack is not only normal
of a father to tell their son…but necessary. Don’t get attached to patients…Bedside manner…
Hope. I think that this is not only what a father should say, but what a “boss” should tell their
employee when they are not following the rules…something Jack does well…I think that Jack will
learn that Christian was on his side the whole time, and that he will be until the end…or at least
until Jack starts believing, and “lets go”.

I believe MIB had Richard tell John he had to die so he could us his form to get to and kill Jacob…
I believe Christian told him to do it for a reason coming up, just know that MIB is not the only trickster on the island…

Sayid has the ability to be a heartless torturer and killer when necessary. It seems his sole
purpose is to destroy. Every time he tries to heal or help, destiny steps in and taketh away…
Shannon, Nadia, Ilana, Elsa, leaving him with nothing left but his personal skills and a life of
regret. I believe Sayid will make one last important kill, before his time is up…and will be the first
of the Losties we know best to leave us.

Sawyer is a conman. He talks fast, and thinks before he acts. He learns early on how it works,
and even though he knows what can come of it, he still does it…do you think if he now had the
opportunity to do things differently off island, he would…maybe at least see his daughter?
Regardless of what he can or gets to do, I believe in the end he will meet his end at the hands of
Kate. I think regardless of their feelings, Kate will not stray from jack…he is a shepherd after all.

Kate is one of the more mysterious people on Lost, hiding in plain sight…she is one of the biggest
mysteries to me. So much about her… So much background… SO much importance for a character
who is not theorized to play any sort of role other than the bottom of a TRIANGLE on the show.
I can’t help but feel there is a million things she would do differently, too many to name here.
But there are certain things about her character that point to importance. The single most
important to me being that she killed her father, which seems to be a must on the islands leader

Ben killed his father…and I believe after what happened between he and Jacob, he will either
sacrifice himself once he begins to believe, or have his final judgement rain down.
Ben killed his Dad, John killed his dad, and don’t hold it against me, but I always thought it would
fun if Desmond’s son Charlie turned out to be Charles Widmore, and they returned to the island,
which at some point would travel back in time. From there, Charles kills his father, raised on the
island by his mother Penelope Widmore, hence the last name…yes, it is ridiculous, not part of my
theory… I just think it would be fun…

I think as stated above Kate will kill Sawyer for reasons I do not know. I could only speculate he
feels that they were wrong for doing what they did, and attacks Jack for having not to only see
Juliet die once, but possibly because she dies again off island, and blames Jack…but the man who
wanted to live in a time period thirty years in the past should not point fingers for trying to
rewrite history. “It will come back around”…Yes, it most certainly will.

I had it wrong before I think. I couldn’t stop saying about change because to me it is so obvious
that one way or another…it’s coming. So yes, maybe I had it wrong. But redemption plays too
much of a role, maybe the whole time it wasn’t changing the island that would help them…it was
changing themselves…

This is one of my more jumbled theories…I do apologize for that, but I really have no other way to
explain EVERYTHING that I think may happen other than this.

I believe that as Desmond was a variable in “Flashes”, the Losties will be variable x…in LA…X and
a new and alternate timeline that will not only break them from the loop once they make their
return, but also allow them to have their shot at redemption before the final chapter of Lost is

I see the island as nothing more than a glorified time machine in relation to the time travel
aspects on the show..a device to distract us…a red herring…if you will…

But in “reality”…it is much more than that…I think the energy of the island will never be fully
explained. I do not think it’s a spaceship. I do not think it’s a dream. I do not think that
everybody is dead. I think that we will be given a reason to believe that it has properties that are
beyond what science is or will be capable of.

The island is the constant that this world has to the universes true reality. Without it we will not
exist…”We will all die…” as Hawking puts it to Des.

I believe that there is a metaphorical game being played, which is more of an equation than it is
an actual game. Maybe pretend that the losties are numbers, and it is imperative that they be
changed in order to fit their positions in the equation itself. I imagine all the talk of the Valenzetti
Equation and saving the world are not actually saving the world…it’s a way to revive the world,
and clear it from the dangers of the alternate timelines themselves…Valenzetti knew…Hanso
knew..what they had to do…they just couldn’t put the pieces together…they were not able
to “fix” that which was not meant to be fixed…they are scientists…they cannot perform miracles.
This game…this battle of wits…

One side believes that one cannot change the past…cannot go against the will of god.

“God loves you as he loved Jacob”

The other believes that making a change can one way or another, through alternate timelines or
another method…stop the end of life from occurring….

MIB…Nemesis…could very well have caused something to occur… so that he becomes reincarnated
thru John…

Chief16 got my mind going on this, and I could not have this ideat without his thought…

I like the idea of a different Locke. My only problem is that it would mean that it is sort of Locke
on the beach with Jacob from the beginning…Now I am not against that idea…not at all.
It all makes sense when you throw in the word “reincarnation”.

Now I think if this goes this direction, MIB has set up to ENSURE he is reincarnated through Locke
via time travel…or at the very least science. With all the jumping and alt timeline possibilities,
there is no reason to not believe that he has this ability…again, science and a thought of religious
act being smashed together to create something insane.

But due to alt timelines, we may have a Locke that is just plain Locke…who is dead at the
moment as well.

MIB thinks he found his loophole by incarnating Locke as himself…but in reality… this is part of
Jacobs plan…

He wants MIB to do this. He wants to sacrifice. It is necessary…

He apologizes to John earlier in his life…I would assume John accepts now.

MIB thinks he pulled a fast one. A way to change the equation and gain the ability to ultimately
kill Jacob…In doing so, he changed something else…he changed the way it ends.

I imagine from the conversation, Jacob knows how it ends…therefore, if he is dead for the ending…
something must be different…progress possibly…

His own death may be a chance, it may be crazy…it may be faith in mankind…

Maybe instead of a resurrection, John is allowed to be seen and heard by Hurley and is used to
guide the Losties to their correct path…hence…WHY HE NEEDED TO DIE!!! NOT to be a proxy, or
help MIB, but to help the Losties now that they are in a different timeline (if that happens) and/or
upon the return to the island.
I believe this is the real reason Christian tells him he is going to hae to die…

I believe in the end, we will learn the alternate realities serve as loopholes.

I believe that we will learn in the end, that there is a way to right your wrongs by making up for
them…we just see an excessive length be taken to do so. But I also think that we will see the
true plan play out…

I believe we will see science lead the way for faith, and change, to somehow prove consistency.

I believe this will occur after many of our characters sacrifice in an effort to save everything.

This is the writers and producers idea of time travel and its effect on mankind…and dare I say God.

Please understand when I use that word, I mean no disrespect, or worship. I speak it in a sense
that I cannot help but see the element in the show. I am not a religious person in that manner.
So it is not attributed to that in any way. It’s just that most religion is based on sacrifice. You
give things up. You sacrifice what you want…sometimes what you need. We have seen John do
that in the name of the island and the people. He didn’t know what was going to happen. Whether
you believe me that he will play a vital role on whatever side closest to good actually is, or he is
done, and we now have MIB, he was told that he had to die to save everybody. He was told he
had to be a martyr of sort. And he complied, for once not for himself. Not to find his Dad, or get
Helen back into his life.

He didn’t do it because he thought he would somehow come back to life.

He did it because he had faith that if he obliged, and served his purpose, that he would save everyone on the island.

Jacob’s whole story is one that I could almost see as being biblical, the way he is worshipped
without ever even being seen…That is something science cannot give you. People believe and
have faith that Jacob is real, and that he will protect them and the island…and they are willing to
devote…even give their lives to follow his word. It is not out of fear, want, or even need…its
simply out of faith. This couldn’t be a more religious story that we see take place…and the
question is….will we learn that spiritual acts are explained by science, or that science is ultimately
produced by something more divine?

I believe him to be someone that in the end will have a mother of human decent, and a father
who is viewed as he by the others. Someone capable of giving life, where there should be none…
someone who is capable of being a leader and a great man. Someone who is capable of performing

I DO believe Jacob is on the Losties side. I do believe that MIB is on the side of gods/fate…what
happened, happened. He tries to make gods plan play out…to have what happened…happened.
But I believe that Jacob is against him…and before I say this next part, remember…it’s a theory
site. I believe Jacob is not only trying to prove MIB wrong, but God as well. I think that he
realizes that there is a way to save mankind. But he has to put his hand in the cookie jar to do
so. It’s not that he wants to do this…but it is his destiny to sacrifice himself for the island and the
people because he wants to prove to God that he is not only willing, but that he believes it that

With his sacrifice, I see a return of John Locke somehow. John will be the catalyst for the event I
speak of above, making the next leader and great man of the island…Jack Shepard…our hero from
the very beginning. Jack will sacrifice himself as John and Jacob have. I believe that in doing so,
he will stop what happened…from happening.

In conclusion…I feel that the Losties will enter an alternate timeline off island… return to the very
same island we have been on through the entire show….no change, no Alt timeline there…but we
will have LOSTIES…PEOPLE from an alternate timeline that should not exist off island, who have
conscience travelled…redeemed themselves…changed… and finally…return to the rightful place in
history…which is on the island….saving the world in the game that is ultimately decided through
an equation…They will restore the ability to conceive and give birth on the island. And I think that
we will see the ultimate ‘reset’ button get pushed…not by science, although it was necessary…but
by something that science could never explain…a miracle.

Whatever it is that Jack is able to do, I believe it will involve the smoke monster…I don’t know
why…There is no way for me to detail something when I have no idea what COULD be thrown into
the pot anymore. I just will not let go of the spiritual relationship Lost has with religion….Dharma
for crying out loud…All the names…if I’m wrong, I just hope they at least cover something from my
thoughts on the reversal, being religion being explained by science…but not in my story…here…we
go the opposite route…

I think at this point, after the ending on “our” island… there will be a flash and we will be shown
a “new” island…

In my story we see the statue resurrected. We see people rebuilding life…we see children, familiar

We will see a woman, with brown hair, and a face full of freckles standing on the beach looking
out at the ocean…with child…I believe conceived off island ,from a place that no longer exists…
being a person who is technically crossbred through timelines or realities. And in the absence of
the father…she will now play the role of single mom yet again…but for REAL this time…and I mean
that in so many ways.

I believe she will have a son…and she will name him Jacob, after his father…better known to us…
as the man who could perform miracles…who could bring life where it is not meant to be.

The man who was prophesized as a leader and great man…better known to us…as Jack.

And with the understanding that I have NO idea or even guess of what it will be, the scientifically
unexplainable “spiritual” act will be something that leaves us wondering still…did the island
change, is it an alternate timeline, is it the past, present, or future, or did what we see happen…
just happen?

…and we will be as LOST as we ever were on that subject…

The creators of Lost wanted to give us their perspective of what would occur if time travel was
possible…they researched, they went to the depths of the minds of some of the greatest writers
in the world. They scoured the pages of the bible, they reincarnated Buddhism. They poked
around in Steven Hawking’s library. They played mind games with the greatest philosophers in the
known history of the world. They wrote a story about the lives of survivors of a plane crash on an
island, and came up with nothing short of genius for an answer…only giving us small pieces and
clues to decipher and decode at a time…

Leaving us …scrambling to solve the equation before they write the final answer on the
chalkboard…to what is in my opinion, the single greatest science fiction plot device ever invented
for a story…

Which is what all this really is…my opinion…my theory…my story…

They convinced me…all of us, to research…to explore, to study, to search….to learn… all the very
same subjects they researched, explored, studied, searched, and learned….

We had to go through the same thing to truly understand…

It is the very same question that they are answering themselves…

How would time travel play a role in history if it was to exist…and to me, their answer… is the
greatest theory I have ever seen.

You didn’t think I would actually entitle my theory something like that in vain did you? We know
each other better than that by now. I have spoken of perception for a very long time on this site…
and as I told you from the beginning of this theory, that I would test yours.

We have been given a gift with this show, after studying all the subjects we have, we have had
to acquire and gain the ability to understand our own perception a little better, something that
gets LOST from us now and then. I hope if you do not agree with me, you at least enjoyed my
story…because in the end, before we have any answers… that is all a theory really is to me.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this.

Share with fellow Losties

Written by


Abbot Enheduanna Schwarzschild

79 thoughts on “The Greatest Theory I Have Ever Seen…

  1. Way to knock it out of the ‘ballpark’ AES. I feel that you have captured the true essence of what Lost is really about.

    The writers have captured our imaginations from the beginning and I have always felt that they are making a much larger statement than just offering up one of the best shows to ever hit television!

    There is a deeper message in this, for all of us. They are offering us an opportunity to alter our own perceptions of Science vs. Faith. As you accurately point out, they have included so many references for viewers to delve into and explore. It has been a wonderful journey, and one that I feel we will still be talking about, long after the show concludes.

    I have no negative criticisms of your theory. It is a truly remarkable read, and one that I thoroughly enjoyed reading and learned from.

    We are all attempting to find meaning in Lost, and I think it speaks volumes about the writers, and the amazing way they are leading us.

    I fully expected that at the end of Lost, I would have something on a personal level to add to my own set of beliefs.

    Your theory, has all but confirmed that in my mind!

    I highly recommend that everyone reads this theory. I feel it is one of the most relevant theories I have ever read, and a wonderful way for us to start out watching Season 6.

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts this with all of us.

    Truly remarkable!

  2. What a spectacular thing to read. You can really write a quality product. I loved the last few paragraphs (#2,533-2,576) describing your thoughts about how passionate Jacob is for the Losties, about the leadership quality Jack has and what he’ll end up doing for humanity.

    Your thought about the island being the “real world” is mind numbing. What an idea. What I’ve agreed with forever is the idea that humanity is at stake. Jacob knows it. He SAYS it ends. He’s from the future, or has “seen” it at least. He knows how it ends, and what needs to be done before that moment. The end of the season will be nothing short of epic I am sure. We’ll still know nothing about anything, but it’ll give us some chills nonetheless.

    I’m very happy I took the time to read this. I like your personal thoughts about the show, and theories in general. I’ve been with this site for a small fraction of the time some of you have been, and I’m still going to seriously miss the brainstorming….so I can just imagine how weird it’ll be for some of you when it ends.

    I guess my point is: Some of you have possibly been friends for 5 years now, since this show started. That’s a chunk of life no doubt. Amazing how a show can bring “outside the box” thinkers together to a single site. Theories and personalities develop over time, and before we know it, this show has shaped our minds and lifestyles (I’ve basically sat on my ass for 2 weeks straight because of this site coming back up)

    Everyone has a love for something, mine are rather diverse I suppose, but everyone here finds this show extremely fascinating, it’s our constant so to speak. Judging by a lot of the theories I read (the ones I don’t make fun of), it feels good to be in the same boat as some SERIOUS thinkers and minds.

    It’ll be a busy site here in just a few days. Can’t wait.

  3. I hope the geniuses behind Lost wont just go away. Would be great if they make another show (or movie) that’s as grand (or at least dangerously thought-provoking) as Lost!

  4. Dabsi, I cant agree more on a deeper message. I think the underlying theme is obviously some sort of redemption…You cant change the past, but you can make mends with it at least…blahblah
    Its about responsibility and consequences.

    I feel that the writers are obviously
    sci-fi minded, due to their track record on this show and other projects, but I cant help but feel that one way or another they will find a way to incorporate what we presumed the first was all about.
    It will come back around…

    I dont expect it to end like this, but I wouldnt mind if it did…and if it ends up being not even close…wonderful, then they keep me entertained and curious the whole way through for me.

    I shouted about “change” last year…about what many argue is actually going on right now.
    Truth is, it makes a whole lot of sense that the island they returned to could be different than I perceive it in my theory.

    I jumped ship off the island changing in hopes that we wouldnt see a mesh of time periods. It seems like a strange direction to go.
    I could buy a complete alternate timeline type scenario, an appearance of change as being complimentary to my theories last year…if it wasnt for a few of the things I name above.

    It seems so obvious that the world off island changes if the plane lands…I like the idea a lot.
    I just feel the island is constant, and that is why it cannot change.

    Could be wrong…who knows…

    Regardless, you are correct to assume that we will leave lost with something more than we came with…we already have…

    Chief, you are correct, I have made some friends. I think that your “teasing” has been well understood now that you mean no harm…your just a dick…something else I can respect ;]

    Seriously, in the last two months, your honesty is something that was somewhat lacking here, myself included. The remark about addmitting my mistakes (and the spaceship one, lol) there because of you oddly enough…

    I really liked your last theory when you blatantly addmitted to combining theories, to make one that is larger, and you know what…it makes more sense when pieces are connected as you did…but it was the part about addmitting what you did to get there rather than just put things together and say “what about this?” that got me…

    That is what this should be about. You dont attack peoples ideas, you dissect them in your own way…and the non traditional way around makes it better because its not a beat down, its humorous criticism…which I fully expect at some point by this time tomorrow…and you know what…I dont care either…as much as people think I do.

    Defending my thoughts is much different than getting upset…which I have a few times…and I assure you…not this year.

    I wrote this for people who come to my theories and enjoy them…not agree with them.
    If more people pulled together and did what you did, it would be a better place.

    We may not have been friends for 5 years…lol, but we got 5 months left…

    And I swear…I say all the time that as long as Lost comtinues to compel me to think in this manner, and of course entertain me, that I really dont care how it ends…but if it turns into a spaceship and flies… … …I cant even say it….well…save a bullet for me friend…

  5. Cliff…Achalli…take your time…I admit its ridiculous length….Chief, what did you say, about 2,576 paragraphs……?…Thats about right…maybe 2,432…that will make more sense this season…

  6. Wierd.Watched Flasehes Before Your Eyes again then logged in and read this.I think ive done this before.See ya in another life brother.I think he know knows hes been doing this over and over.Forever.i think shes lying.Shes for the end of mankind.No progress.

  7. Wow, that was a good read (you made me miss half of Fringe though >:( lol). Even though it’s a theory, it doesn’t sound far-fetched at all. Honestly I am still a little confused here and there due to the length and eye strains, but it seems as though a lot of questions can be answered through your theory. I like the idea of the island being “reality” or being time-elapsed against the ever changing outside world. It’s definitely a new and refreshing theory to dive into… Too bad Season 6 starts in a matter of days; you really have something here that can possibly go even deeper and even answer more of Lost’s million unanswered quesions! Bravo!

  8. Ecellent theory!In season two we learn there is a war.Two sides.Two agendas.Sawyer is reading a manusript titled BAD TWIN.As history plays out to the end over and over there are two sides.Two timelines.One with no progress.One with. Fate or change.But it always ENDS the same.

  9. Cliff, if it makes you feel any better, I am 2 weeks behind on fringe…

    I apologize fro the eye strains and closely connected paragraphs….I had it double spaced between paragraphs, and things didnt look right…and it made it seem twice as long…

    I am glad you enjoyed it and found it to have a shot at answering questions…both being the intentions…

    I purposely posted this now…actually…I purposley procrastinate sometimes…

    Very happy you liked it…and thank you for the kind words…

  10. (this is off topic, though similar in an odd way with the dimension/timeline thingy going on lol)

    AES, the past couple episodes were pretty much standalone. next week’s the real deal though!

  11. I appreciate the appreciation of honesty above all else. I had to be a dick in the Air Force (My name stems from that, I was an F-16 crew chief), or people wouldn’t listen to my authoritah. I suppose I carried that attitude with me when I left.

    I’m glad some people notice the honestly more than anything though, I wish it was more contagious.

    A.E.S, in the event of a spaceship launch, I’ll definitely have a shotgun shell waiting for ya. Man, just thinking about how terrible this could be really adds even MORE suspense to this last season….good times!

  12. that was a long read. yet you write intelligently and with a good style, so it wasn’t much of a challenge.

    i disagree with a little over half of your actual specific ideas and theories, but mostly agree with your general theories.

    things i agree with are the light idea. if you check out jacob’s tapestry, one of the main parts of it are people praying to the sun, the biggest light source for us. perhaps there is some enlightenment ideas there.

    i disagree with your on island off island reality business and alternate time line ideas…and how not supposed to be somewhere prevents you from doing anything. They still were in the past, even if they werent supposed to be…and they still did things…anything they did would have changed something, whether or not their intention was to change anything.

    i wholeheartedly agree that too much emphasis has been placed on science here, but science is much more easily argued than faith. science has very defined right and wrong, while faith is more shaky and subjective. were always taking the easy route.

    anyways a great read. a little over 100 hours left. actually just under 108 hours. darnit.

  13. wooooooah!!

    This looks like its gonna be interesting, i’ll have to read it all after work, but i DEFINITELY agree that Ms Hawking is wrong, whether knowingly or not.

    I never thought about the situation with Des and the cricket bat in the bar, but you make a good point about the change that occured.

    Its funny, the more i think about the show from a writers perspective, why would you introduce time travel if things couldn’t be changed?
    If they’re all destined to follow a path that has been pre-written and they have no choice, theres no way it could end on a happy note.

    I think at the end of the series, i think ‘choice’ and ‘change’ are going to be what saves our losties, the island and possibly the world.

    Looking forward to reading this later.

  14. Wow that was a crazy read!

    I can see you really put a lot of thought into this and i agree with most of what you said.

    I have a question/problem with the Desmond thing though..
    When Faraday tells him to find his mother, Des wakes up saying he had a memory blah blah blah.. Penny says you’ve been off the island 3 years etc etc.
    Well when faraday tells des, they had only just traveled through time and were still on day one (maybe 2 or 3, point is they had only just started travelling) but Des wakes up and ‘remembers’ this 3 years after we see Faraday speak to him..?
    What are your thoughts on that?

    Also as much as i loved your theory i PRAY to god Kate chooses Sawyer instead of killing him haha

  15. Wow A.E.S. I’m having to read and comment from my local library as my computer is down right now. Pretty much the worst time with the beginning of the season starting and so many good posts lately. Im going to print this and try to get back on here by Monday and comment (one read thru is definitely not enough) but whose kid do you think that freckled faced lady will be raising on her own? Who is the father in other words and what would the childs name be?

  16. Eko, Im glad to hear that you enjoyed it, and greatly appreciate your compliments.

    The time we have been here you have shown me that you are an educated and well rounded person, so that means a lot coming from you.

    I pretty much assumed everyone would have their disagreements with at least some if not all of my post, so no worries there.

    I know where you stand on those issues and agree that there is very easily many different ways to see it before they show it to us….a little while longer and we will get some answers.

    On the tapestry, lol, spoiled that one for me a little. I was trying to hold on to that for a bit longer….but since you brought it up, what the hell…

    The part of the tapestry that caught my eye more than the “Sun” or “Rays”…yep…theres another one…is the “eye” oddly enough.

    I know it most likely has more to do with the egyptian history of the show, but if you have are at all familiar with the illuminati, the symbol they use as a mark in the book, and my understanding in real life is an eye in a pyramid.

    I didnt want this to turn into an Illuminati post, which is why I left this out…I take things too far sometime, as you can tell with the few thousand words above.

    There is also a “temple” in the book that is a pyramid that was…are you ready…destroyed when the monster was let out..well, actually when they destroy the island trying to stop the monster from escaping…reminds me of the statue and the eye on Lost…
    Which makes me assume that the statue may be destroyed when the monster is created or made…or when MIB makes his escape from the cabin…could be wrong…just makes sense…

    And for a little A.E.S. background…it is ONE OF several reasons why my avatar is what it is…

    I made a joke long ago on the old LT site saying that the island was nothing more than a breeding ground for the illuminati, and their plan for New World Order…hmm

    And you are correct, we do take the easy route…myself included. But I wanted to just lay out what I would do right now with what we have, from season one to the season 5 finale.

    My take is…faith is supposed to be shaky.
    It is supposed to be a gamble or a chance by people who believe whatever it is that they believe, but have never seen it in literal or physical form…which up until the finale…some of us, just like the others, had faith that Jacob was real…and not in Bens head, or a machine…lol…remember the J.A.C.O.B. posts long ago, when some believed Jacob was an actual machine…?

    Religion is used too much as a crutch in the world today, which is not at all its intended purpose. It is meant to give people hope and faith that there is something more than just what we are able to see.

    I sided with it long ago putting my faith in that the writers would not spend a season plus, showing us all these hints and not bring it back. Their timing was beyond perfect.
    Season 4 started a new chapter in Lost, and with that came science (at least sci-fi).
    When Des conscience travelled to Penny and back, we all said “wtf”.
    And when the isalnd disappeared, we all said “and there it is”.

    It was so obvious that science was now taking the forefront on Lost, and religion would quietly slide behind.

    But I just refuse to let it slip away…not now…there is too much work left to be done that I dont think can be explained by science much longer…

    Well…my father always told me to not discuss religion or politics in public, so on that note I have to go, lol.

    I am very happy you enjoyed this, and hope to keep you entertained for at least a few more months (not that Lost wont entertain us all enough)…thanks again for the comments and kind words.

  17. Shep_…take your time, get back to me and let me know what you think when you finish.

    Roland, take a peek again when you get a chance, you may have missed where I clarify the child and father…

  18. Chuck fan…glad to here you dont watch that “crappy show”, lol…dont mean to offend anyone…I watch the end every Monday before watching another crappy show…

    Glad you liked it…

  19. Sawyer girlllllllll…hello.

    Happy you enjoyed this. I thought you might from our interactions on the site before.

    On the Des/Dan question…good question btw…

    I think that when we see Des have the dream, it is the first time (going by chronological time) that we see Des off the island.

    Dan tells Des this in “Because you left”.

    We never learn exactly what occurs in between these scenes with Des, but by them showing Des having his “dream”, it is what pushes him to find Hawking, and the rest is Lost history.
    They, in my opinion, show us this first with Des to show the connection between the two.

    Although we see Des before this occures with the Losties and Hawking off island, it does not happen until after Dan tells Des this ON the island in the PAST.

    You see my “timeline” charts (I dont know how else to draw that here in a theoy)…

    I think if they were to show the TRUE chronological order of events, immediately after Dan tells this to Des it should cut to Des waking up…

    Could be wrong, I just really believe that is what happens.

    Ive been trying to think of a (shortened) nickname to call you…sawyer seems weird, lol…so you are going to be “45”, lol…

    And dear, I hope Kate picks Sawyer too…I just dont think its meant to be.

    How about we compromise, Sawyer passes by SAVING Kate from something…sacrifice…

    Would that be at least LESS sad when he dies…lol?
    He realizes she and Jack are meant to be, and saves her out of love…

    I still believe, one way or another…he will die by or in Kates hands…

  20. TawaretsAnkh…cut from the same mold…

    My passion for this show runs deep for reasons that I am not yet ready to say here, but just know that all of my theories are written from the same thing.

    I dont necessarily care if people agree with me…or for that matter if I am correct in my theories.

    I just want people to know that the show touched me, and that I wish to do the same.

    I dont want to convince ANYONE that the end of the show will occur in the manner that I say, or even close. I just want people to realize that for 5 seasons now…they got us.
    They got us to watch. They got us to love it. They got us to guess, search, dig, and research. And everytime saomeone comes up with a new idea…it gets crushed.

    I think that there is a point where they truly are just messing with us, and my “red herring” comment is meant to mean that faith is overshadowed, rather than science is a ploy.

    The science is necessary, but the faith is too.

    I cannot thank you enough for the words, they are strong from someone who I almost dont know at all.

    I believ I have gained all I have from the show at this point. I believe that there are things that are going to happen in season 6 that are going to make people come back to me and say “Now what?”…

    And you of all people know what I am going to tell them…”the show is not over, and have faith”.

    If it turns out that I am incorrect, then at least they entertained the hell out of us along the way, and I still leave regretting nothing here…but I believe in certain things, and will continue to do so until the LOST symbol pops up for the last time.

    We may have not met but a short time ago, but we know each other better than you think.

  21. Knoxville, 2 sides are so very important to the show. I think the problem is so many keep comparing it to yin and yang…

    I see it different. I see it as the opposite. 2 sides…opposites themselves who cannot for the life of the world get along…

    There is a way to change, and Hawking is most certainly not it…

    Oisky…happy to entertain…

    Thank you both for your comments…

  22. AES, I am re-reading your theory in sections, as there are so many great observations.

    Where Ms. Hawking is concerned, I have always referred to her as ‘the gatekeeper’, ‘keeper of the secrets’, if you will. It’s hard to overlook that where the ‘Lampost’ is stationed. (in a Church basement).

    Given that her and Charles appear to be so diametrically opposed, I am wondering if they share the same values…if you have any thoughts on that, please share.

    I think what you have stated about Penny is really enticing. That’s got my brain ‘cooking’.

  23. A.E.S – Wow that was truly inspirational

    I wrote a theory a week or so back called ‘Fail Safe Key’ where I pretty much agree completely about what happened with Desmond is what is going to happen to our losties, except I said that the bomb was the fail safe, the key detonated it.

    *in the past Jack still drops the bomb but Juliet doesnt set it off so it gets buried under the chernobyl cement.

    Loved the theory, the idea that the island is the only ‘real’ place and that off island is like a vacation (hence why Widmore left so frequently, and the scene with Tom, you could not have explained that any better)

    You mention the part of the room 23 video “God loves you as he love(d) Jacob”

    Whats your take on the past tense, as though Jacob is dead or God does not love him anymore?

  24. I will get to these comments in a moment, my apologies for the wait…

    Chief posted a new thought…two above this on the homepage…

    His thought is on MIB and his words to Jacob in the beginning.

    He gets to where John is possibly MIB…then asking the question of what if it is just another version of Locke…do read his post…very thought provoking…

    His thought made something jump in my head like Faraday went back in time and told me…

    “I like the idea of a different Locke. My only problem is that it would mean that it is Locke on the beach with Jacob from the beginning…

    Now I am not against that idea…not at all.

    It all makes sense when you throw in the word “reincarnation”.

    Now I think if this goes this direction, MIB has set up to ENSURE he is reincarneted through Locke via time travel…or at the very least science.

    With all the jumping and alt timeline possibilities, there is no reason to not believe that he has this ability…again, science and a thought of religious act being smashed together to create something insane.

    But due to alt timelines, we may have a Locke that is just plain Locke…who is dead at the moment as well.

    MIB thinks he found his loophole by incarnating Locke as himself..but in reality… this is part of Jacobs plan…

    He wants MIB to do this. He wants to sacrifice. It is necessary.

    He apologizes to John earlier in his life…I would assume John accepts now.

    MIB thinks he pulled a fast one. A way to change the equation, and gain the ability to ultimatly kill Jacob.

    In doing so, he changed something else…he changed the way it ends.

    I imagine from the conversation, Jacob knows how it ends…therefor, if he is dead for the ending…something must be different…progress possibly…

    His own death may be a chance, it may be crazy…it may be faith in mankind…close your mouth Im not done…

    Maybe instead of a resurrection, he is allowed to be heard by Hurley and is used to guide the Losties to their correct path…hence…WHY HE NEEDED TO DIE!!!

    NOT to be a proxy, or help mib, but to help the Losties now that they are in a different timeline (if that happens).

    …that just came to me or I would have put it in my theory…damn you for making me think…

    Seriously, great topic here, again, outside the box…I really do wish you posted this two days ago, because it all makes SO much sense now.

    Excellent idea… Chief!!!!!!!!

    I really do wish that I would have included this. It couldnt make more sense. I would like to thank you chief for the insight and thoughts yet again…

  25. secrets indeed Dabsi…she is full of them.

    On the note of her and Charles…

    It kills me not knowing how or why she left…but whats worse, is we dont know WHEN she left.

    I imagine it is before Charles. I think she learns of his “getting around” off island and leaves because of the possible trouble he caused.

    I think that Widmore was on her side…but I think he changed since leaving, and wants change now that he is gone.

    I believe he may feel it is his only way back now….his very own loophole.

    But he and Hawking dont seem all that distant in their interactions…maybe there is more than one game being played…

    Excellent questions. I have thought little on these two.
    I have some ideas for Widmore, which could play into this.

    I would love to hear more of your take on the subject of the ex-lovebirds….

    One thing I cant get, is how convienient it is that Desmond becomes so close to two people off island…Penny and Dan.

    The odds of he and TWO of Charles kids together baffles me, and leads me to believe there is MUCH more to it.

    Dabsi, you have been an inspiration for me here, and I just want to thank you, although I am sure not for the last time.

  26. Oh!!!

    With Ben….forget the conversation…its meaning is there for the world to hear in the story of Thomas…

    But what is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more important is that when Jack first arrives beside him…Benjamin Linus is actually praying…

    If thats not faith, I dont know what is….

  27. Josh…Just read your post…I love your failsafe idea…I dont fully agree with everything, but I do agree with one of the main parts….and that is what happens off island…
    Sorry I missed it then…

    The reaon I feel now that the island doesnt change is because it is constant, or the world/universes constant…meaning always the same.

    I think that is ever so important to the show.

    If off island changes, and on island changes…what remains constant…I feel something has to…

    Thanks for the comments, I appreciate your words a lot…

    We see many things similar, and some things differently…I cannot wait to see where we stand after the premier…

    Nice work on your theory…again, sorry I missed it.
    Ive been on and off, but wasnt commenting much due to writing this mess…if you think its long now…you should have seen it before I edited…I wrote about three chapters of a novel, lol…

    I should be more frequent with commenting now…

  28. Hi AES, thanks for your feedback on Charles & Ms. Hawking.

    My thoughts are similar to yours in respect to why Charles and Eloise drifted apart. I am wondering if she left ‘the island’ before Daniel was born.

    I almost feel that she and Charles share somewhat similar beliefs, yet the focus of their views are different in some respect. I’m wondering if the one area where they differ is, on the side of fate vs. free will. This would have occurred, as you say after their departure from ‘the island’. It almost seems that Widmore feels his return would constitute some sort of reverting back to past ways.

    I knew that you would recall the ‘Thomas’ incident. lol That is making a little more sense to me after my re-watch and noting that Ben does have faith, and it’s the second time we have seen this. His faith falls on the side of ‘free will’.

    Personally, I feel that Ben may end up surprising us all in the end, if you can imagine.

    PS: I also love Chief’s take on Locke.

  29. AES, something just came to mind while thinking about Charles and Eloise that might be a bit of a hint to us.

    Charles told Desmond where he could find Eloise in LA. Eloise has the power to get ‘people’ back to ‘the island’. She even assists of all people; Ben along with the ’06’. Yet, she has never assisted Charles.

    There has to be a reason for that, so perhaps knowing that Ben is on the side of ‘free will’ and knowing that Widmore used to view things as being ‘fated’, does that tell us something about Eloise and what her thoughts are on the subject or, was Eloise assisting Jacob’s overall plan.

    That is something I need to have clarified in my mind with Charles and Eloise. I still don’t have the complete picture on them.


  30. Edited and revised on 1-30-10…4:03am…seriously…

    Tried to help eyestrain, nosebleeds, and blindness by adjusting spacing….I hope it helps…

    If anyone wishes to read through again, some say they were anyway…

    I have added some more info to the post…

    -A quick laugh about Aaron and a possible MIB connection…
    -A possible link with Walt and MIB…slightly humerous as well…
    -A quick thought on Ben…
    -Another what side is Christian on clue…
    -A jab at Bens ending…
    -And a clip with a connection to the comment I made on Chiefs recent post that got my wheels turning…

    Thanks again, hope spacing helps…

  31. PS…I think the length is permitting me from spacing how I wish…I have many different degrees of spacing in the draft…it just prints here as if I wrote it out that way…very sorry, I tried…

  32. 45? i like it haha

    Right i see where your coming from with this Dan Des business, it makes a lot of sense.. This is very well thought out i must admit!

    And yes, i guess i can accept Sawyer dying like that. Still dont like the idea of him dying anyway but to save Kate (so to speak) is good enough 🙂 Happy dayss!

  33. AES, as I was typing my above comment about Charles, Eloise, etc., I actually realized that they along with Richard Alpert still remain a huge mystery in my mind, in terms of their motivation.

    They are the characters in the show, that have proven to me, at least to be the most difficult to read.

    PS: nice additions to your post!

  34. Ok Dabsi…

    Im going to take a crack at this…

    I really am kind of stumped, so I am considering this more of a guess than actually theorizing.

    I think Richard only took Ben and named him leader because Ben is supposed to appoint John the Leader of the island…

    I say above that Richard is not from Black Rock…I do so more than anything to simply throw out there something different….which is why I call the ship a close #2…

    I was looking at the nemesis profile on Lostpedia…as I scrolled down, I couldnt help but notice the similarities between Richard and MIB.

    If you do the same, look simply at the hair color and facial expreession MIB carries in his portfolio pic to a few below of Richard.

    It has come to me that he may be of MIBs desent. I thought of the others taking children and wondered about the possibilities of Richard being the first child ever taken…by Jacob.

    Its all craziness now, not part of the theory, so bear with me.

    I also thought of the possibility that Richard could also actually BE MIB from another time period or the past…and doesnt even know it yet…I know…ridiculous.

    I have considered the possibiliy that he was made “forever young” by Jacob…to stop him from ever becoming the man on the beach…thus negating the conversation…

    This is some what out the window because of the things I say above about MIB in the post. I dont think MIB is actually the man we see there…I think he is another form that was taken just as with John Locke…could be very wrong abot that.

    I think that we will see MIB off of the island, possibly even in present time 2007 with Charles and possibly Eloise…if not, maybe just another one who made the unfortunate arrival to the island in the past.

    I think that he may not be the same MIB that we know…but a real person who has ther form taken….

    I have nothing to go on with Richard…he is so very difficult…and Black Rock makes SO much sense for his “way to the island”.

    I hope this helps more than confuses…honestly…Richard is a tuff one to go after, which is why I touched on him rather than really going into details…

  35. On Charles…I think he is a mn of FATE.

    He believes his destiny was set, but now thatthis is occuring, may try and take matters into his own hands.

    Whe Widmore was an other, I think he was not just cheating on Eloise off island, but the others on island.

    I believe he may have been in conspiracy of sorts, with the Dharma Initiative.

    I believe it may have something to do with acually sending them there…or reinstating them after they are gone.

    He may learn that he actually sends them there, then goes off island to fullfill his own destiny.
    I thinkhe is made aware of the war that is coming…and is aware that John does need to be returned by someone in the past telling him so, and his remembering of it off island in one of his ‘nightmares’.

    I am unsure if he is on Jacob or MIBs side, not because of good or evil, but because Ben says “Jacob doesnt want this…” in regards to killing Alex.

    I think that at the time, he believes in Jacob, but knows very well that MIB exists.

    I think that it is possible that he was plotting too take down the others with the DI…he may have a source on the inside…via Amy…hence how they get Ethan Rom to become an Other…not by stealing him…buut her either handing him over, or converting to the others herself…which is how I think we see her as “Amelia” in the house with Juliet in her flashback.

    Meanwhile, Eloise is made aware of the islands new “birth” problem caused after the incident…which is why she leaves…to protect her and her son.

    I think from there, we have seen Widmores banishment, and I now believe that he is learning new information thru the nightmares.
    He knows that Locke is supposed to be on the island…the only question is…Why?

    To help MIB do what we have seen…or to help Jacob accomplis his task that I state in Chiefs post comments and in my “new” version of my theory?

    Good question…way to fry my brain.

  36. No problem Roland, I knew you would get it the secondtime through…amazing how things can be so different when they are repeated but done slightly different… … …

  37. A thought on Jacob dying. have you ever read the Dune series, Frank Herberts, not the pale imitations his son wrote. In, I think, Heretics of Dune , all the sandworms carry a “pearl” of Leto, the God Emperor who controlled humans for thousands of years within in them. By all of sandworms being wiped out it releases mankind from his visions and allows them to get off his destructive path.
    We see Jacob holding all the strings together as he weaves his tapestry. I wonder if his death releases our Losties from their paths, giving them the ability to choose another.

  38. …Oh…I also just added another hopeful answer…in regards to a certain scene in the show people have looked for a clue…Ill give you a hint it involves the pilot…

  39. Hi AES, thanks for your insights….your answers much of what I was hoping to hear from you!

    I am also a great ‘believer’ that the body of Nemesis in particular should not to be taken too seriously, as ‘using’ another ‘vessel’ or ‘candidate’ is part of what he does.

    I also feel we shouldn’t take the physical appearance of Jacob that seriously either.

    Your thoughts on Charles Widmore are the kind of ‘out-of-the-box’ thoughts that I have been accustomed to and expect from you. I totally think you have ‘pegged’ him proper. I love, love, love the explanation you provided.

    PS: I have two thoughts about the clue with ‘the pilot’, and one helps to substantiate thoughts which have been shared on the site, with a bit of a twist.

  40. Did you catch the point in the theory where I say it…?

    “If this occurs, I believe that it would be conscience travel that would return them to their past
    selves in what we all like to call an alternate time line. The reason I think we say timeline is
    because it is caused by something in the past changing on the island…that causes change only
    off island. Creating a new iteration branching from where the old one ends or technically
    continues to allow the timeline we have been following all along to exist as well…in this case it
    ends in 1977 for them, but it does not affect the Losties in range of the “flash” that I imagine will
    occur…they just get plopped right in the middle of the new reality/timeline via conscience travel.
    I think that from here, we will see them find a way to get back to the island.

    *…When the Losties flash to the plane after the incident….that conscience will be flashed to the isalnd from the opening scene of the entire show…and there is your pilot clue…*”…

  41. Hi AES, I did read your statements regarding the conscience travel and agree with your conclusions.

    It is what makes the most sense to me.

    I have one idea regarding the pilot of #815. It wasn’t Frank Lapidus who was supposed to be flying that day. It was his friend, instead. I believe this to be another clue about that ‘fateful’ day, and we will learn more about the reason why in Season 6.

    I think there is some importance to this, but I am unclear as to what that might be at this time. I feel that when the writers say ‘pilot’, that the reference might be more literal than we know. I have been unable to tie any of this together, and maybe I never will….but I have my eye on Lapidus. lol

  42. Dabsi…I have said that very same thing…about the pilot being literal…

    But when we see Des “jump” back and forth, his other conscience does too…

    So Im thinking that since they go back in time…but to an alternate reality…their conscience in that reality has to go somewhere…

    I think it will jump to that specific version of itself that the Losties were BEFORE they blew Jugghead…

    But since they travelled back in time…it would be their 2004 version…that only exists at that EXACT monent in time…which is 2004…

    I really do believe that.

    My problem with Franky being the pilot…is he was in 2007…and I do not think he will be on the plane, but remain i that timeperiod with the others, Richard, Ben, Flocke, and most importantly…Sun.

    I think Jin is going to wake up on the plane and Sun will not be next to him…he may not even remember her at first…who knows…that could be how they remember in the long run…and why Sun had to stay in 2007…so she could help them get back.

  43. AES, this was a great read. I dare say you have made yourself immortal with this. More thoughts on this later. Thank you very much for sharing your story with us.

    There is so much information to consider that I won’t be able to do this all in one comment. I also truly don’t know where to start. I will start with what I know then.

    Before I plunge into this I just want to explain the approach I take to understanding Lost and anything else for that matter. I basically relate to things I have read or already seen for that matter. I then take what I’ve already been exposed to and adapt it to understand. I mention this because I don’t want to give the immpression that I’m self promoting.

    With that being said, I felt like you were describing The Fall of Chrnopolis. It to is a cautionary tale about the perils of time travel. Your talk about Desmond’s consciousness travelling reminded me of how Chronopolis views the soul. At the point of death the soul leaves the body and travels backwards through time. The soul then enters the deceased person’s body at the point of birth and relives their life all over again. Each time through the life can be very similar or have deviations. Perhaps something similar has happenedd to Desmond and he has become conscious of it. Either way I agree with you on the conscious traveling aspects of your story.

    As to the science vs. faith debate I believe that one can’t exist without the other. If a person can find a way to blend and balance both they are truly illuminated. Speaking of illumination I will deal with the Illuminati in a later comment right after I get back from a quick trip with Hagbard Celine in the Lief Ericsson.

    And as to my comment about you becoming immortal. I recently read a book called Book of Lies in which a new take on the story of Cain and Able is a central feature of the plot. Long story short, God essentially grants Cain the secret of immortality. And the secret is a very simple one, one that anyone can utilize and you have already done with this post.

    The secret to immortality is this:

    Tell your story.

  44. @Achalli


    How this could somehow work…

    MIB…It could somehow relate to how or why MIB was able to get into Johns body…

    The timeline we see Richard Alpert go into to visit John Locke as a boy, is NOT the John Locke that we see throughout the show.

    I think that when Locke draws the picture, MIB could have somehow utilized this ability of reincarnation that you describe from “Chronopolis”, capable due to John being on the isalnd in the past…or future…
    But in Chronopolis that would not matter…
    Its all the same…the past is the present
    …the future is the present. Its an all way train that stops anywhere…anytime…

    The isalnds is being used as a glorified time machine, when in reality…it is much more than that…I believe I said that in my post above…

    I stand behind it. THIS is why MIB doesnt want people to be there, and with a wrath of hypocritical vengance…he calls Jacobs bluff of “being right here…”.

    This could be the defining moment of how progress begins, by MIBs first success of accomplishing this task.

    He is in John, but maybe in the Alternate time……………………………………………………………………………….wait a minute….I think I know how there are two Johns….

    Whenthe plane crashes in the pilot…I dont even know how to explain this….
    It would go against the “constant” that I have the island representing…but would make sense in a way…

    This i no way in conjuncture with my post, and I bar holding it against me, lol…
    Just for a second say the island did change…

    Maybe it didnt change with the bomb…it reset back to 815 crashing…

    If the losties get Conscience travelled back to the plane…

    Remember when Desmond timejumped in the constant…his conscience of the past goes to the past…what happened to his past constant???

  45. @A.E.S.

    Wow, I can actually talk to myself…

    To answer…it flashed to the conscience of THAT particular DESMOND…not that timeperiod…but that body that BELONGED in that timeperiod.

    Since the losties bodies were either destroyed…or flashed…they had no body to go into in 1977…but the appropriate body of that timeperiod STILL exists in 2004…on the island AS WELL as on the plane…just on different timelines…

    Now say Alpert really did “see them all die”, maybe it was the losties from the 815 plane crash in 2004…only Locke lived…

    MIB was either reincarnated as Locke in that alternate timeline…or somehow took over his form and memories once the other losties died as Richard said…

    from there, Dead Locke and company fly back compliments of Ajira, and land on the island where their past friends already parished…but LOCKE did not…

    By then he is and knows he is MIB, and takes the role of a “raised” Locke…know all…tell all…t get to Jacb and cause what I believe to be the real incident…

    But then what of our Losties that parished…their conscience that dies as Alpert sees, will JUMP back to the off island Losties at the exact moment it occurs…leaving them remembering everything just as Eloise the rat or Desmond did when they conscience jumped…

    Then they will return to the island via a reverse fdw…

    Yes…that seems an appropriate way to end this madness…

    I have no idea if any of that makes sense…

    Actually…Im pretty sure it doesnt…

  46. @A.E.S.
    I like that idea about Nemesis. That would be a perfect way for Nemesis to take Locker’s body. And there is an idea in Chronopolis that could support this. I’ll get back to you on it, I need to doublecheck the book.

  47. WOW! I finally got the chance to read this, uninterrupted, and with my “Lost brain” as in tact as it has been over the past months. Way to put it all out there AES. It’s as if nothing is left untouched. (Except for maybe a few things that even Darlton would say isn’t important to the overall arc.)

    I have only made it through 35 comments (thanks to Emzi’s fancy new comment count) and so I feel a bit remiss commenting before reading through all of the post-theory discussion first, as I know that is where there is usually even more traction gained in AES posts. 😉 So I will do my best to read the rest of the comments before Tuesday night.

    The couple of things I will say for now…(if I can even remember!)

    I don’t want to interpret something you aren’t saying for something I have been thinking about relating to Desmond, so if I misapply your examples, sorry about that. (I am so glad that you pretty much started there with him, btw.) It would seem that the Desmond that we know at last look (living with Penny and little Charlie) has come around to the “redeemed” side of things and has been the only character that has lived to experience the ‘new’ Desmond, off island. (I already can tell I’m butchering my own thoughts.) Ultimately, is Desmond’s story — with his influenced pre-island choices, his time on the island, his on-island choices, his flashes that create a sort of ‘course correction’ for his own destiny (such as ultimately ending up with Penny a “better” man and who knows what else from there, as you have theorized) — is his story an ‘option’ of sorts that foreshadows jack’s story and Kate’s story? (I’m not saying Jack & Kate’s story, as I don’t think it’s Jack & Kate that live happily ever…and I also don’t think it’s Kate & Sawyer. I don’t think their ‘love story’ is the heart of their redemption the way that Desmond & Penny’s love story had such a big storyline/importance to his character and life choices.)

    I’m not trying to go off too much on Desmond, but I hope I’m conveying a bit of why I think you are really onto something in keeping him at the forefront of “how” and then “WHY” in some of your thoughts. (But I know you did this last year in all of those ‘change’ debates, too…) I think the “how” has been given to us the last 5 seasons, whether we knew it or not, and now we get to the “why” parts – and now especially for Jack and Kate.

    And I think you are right that Kate’s much more mysterious (and therefore ultimately powerful in the impending character choices and transformations) since Jack’s issues (and side of the faith/science clash) are much more on the surface.

    I’m totally rambling and basically stating the obvious, so I apologize. But ultimately I’m getting at that I agree with the trajectory of most of your thoughts here. As usual, I have very little to say (contribute) on much pertaining to the “how” all of the science, science fiction, old religion, historical, philosophical aspects…but I very much applaud your extensive thinking on bringing so many pieces together. At this point it isn’t about debating any of it, it’s just finding the things that resonate and enjoying what is to come.

  48. @A.E.S.
    All right AES, here is some more stuff from Chronopolis to support your recent idea on Nemesis.

    There is an official religion run by the Church. they teach that God has taught humans the mutability of time, how to travel in time, and that the nature of the soul is to persist in eternity by continuingly leaving the body at death and traveling beck in time to go back into the body at birth.

    There is an outlaw sect known as the Traumatics. They worship Hulmul, Lord of the substratum. Hulmul wants to be a part of orthogonal (real) time and needs souls at the height of trauma when the body dies. The Traumatics perform human sacrafice to Hulmul by terrorizing their victims just before they kill them. Thus Hulmul can take their souls and prevent them from going back in time to reincarnate and relive the life.

    Perhaps Nemesis did something similar to Locke?

    Now I am going to change gears and talk about the Illuminati and Illuminatus! Several monthes ago you and I had a discussion in a post about which person, Jacob or Nemesis, was more like Hagbard Celine in Illuminatus. At the time I believed that Nemesis was more like Hagbard while you insisted it was Jacob. After reading your post here I believe you are correct, Jacob is more like Hagbard. There is a scene in Illuminatus! where Hagbard abdicates his leadership to a little girl named Miss Portinelli. Your description of jacob’s sacrafice reminded me of that scene and is why I have turned to your idea that Jacob was more like Hagbard.

    As an aside, I also liken Jacob’s sacrafice of his life as something similar that Obi Wan Kanobi did in A New Hope. If he remained alive it would have held Luke’s development back. I think something similar has happened with the death of Jacob. He removed himself from the equation to allow the Losties to become more powerful.

    Now, back to the Illuminati. I know several of us here on the site have thought for awhile that there is a third as yet unnamed party influencing things going on on the Island. IMO, Illana and her group are that third party. For the sake of anything else better to call this group I will refer to them as the Illuminati. I believe that they are actually the ‘real’ Others who have been biding their time to return to the Island and set things right. The Others we already know are an offshoot of this group and will be reincorporated into the Illuminati. There is a precedent for this in Illuminatus also. The Sauers belived themselves to be the ruling heads of the Illuminati and Hagbard was their leader. However as it turned out the Sauers were just cheap imatations. Hagbard was a member of the real Illuminati, who actually had changed their name to the A.A., and had infiltrated the Sauers group to stop them. The A.A. (real Illuminati) were actually on the side of good and working to enlighten mankind to the fact that they all possess the ultimate weapon that gurantees their freedom. I believe that Illana’s group have a similar function in Lost.

  49. Kim, Im glad you enjoyed and even agree with some of it…

    I have more to add to the comments tonight…one last time before it begins…that will explain how I think the losties get back to the island after arriving on 815…how Richard sees them die…and dundundun…the “pilot” clue possibility…

    Thanks for comments, and I will respond more later…

  50. Hey A.E.S: My printer jammed on me the other night. Ugg! So, I didn’t get a chance to read this until now. I think I am understanding your thought process behind some of your major points. And, I can get behind you with most of it… One major detail that I totally believe is possible, is that the Losties could very well experience what happened to Desmond when he turned the fail-safe key. This is something that I’ve been thinking myself…

    But, the only thing I’m having a hard time reconciling in my head with that idea, is what happens to Sun, Frank or even dead Locke for that matter? Maybe the answer is clear but, I’m just not seeing it yet. Hopefully, when the new season starts, there will be an aha moment that will clear things up. But, I won’t be holding my breath. I did that once on a dare when I was 8 yrs. old, and I ended up passing out and being rushed to the hospital… Woke up with broken blood vessels all over my face and neck, and my Dad standing over me saying, “What were you thinking?” It wasn’t a pretty picture. 😉

    Did you see my avatar? So, I guess there’s no need to tell you that I really like your thoughts on Smokey, the Illuminati and enlightenment… I really think “enlightenment” is the goal that our Losties will eventually achieve…

    My nephew is also a fan of Lost and he was here one day with a copy of Richard Alpert’s/Ram Dass’s book, “Be Here Now.” The book weighs heavily in enlighenment and there was one page in particular that stood out to me… It basically said, that to achieve the goal of enlightenment, You must die! If I’m not mistaken I think there was a post pertaining to this book on the old LT site?

    So, this makes me wonder if those that died have truly been enlightened? And, If there is an alt timeline after the bomb detonation will these dead but here characters somehow be the key for the remaining losties? I don’t know, just a thought!

    P.S. I don’t want to see Kate pregnant with Jack’s child. Nor, Sawyer’s child for that matter. But, good thought there non the less…

    Thanks for an enjoyable read! May be getting back to you if I think of something else to run by you…

  51. @Achalli

    Yeah…when Ol’ Hagbard gets pushed into the fire….wait…lol…

    Jacob is a trickster, dont let him fool you like he did MIB, lol…

    I LOVE the idea you present about MIB and Locke in regards to basically stealing his soul.

    After my thoughts on the beach scene and Jacob tricking MIB into THINKING SOMETHING IS HIS IDEA WHEN ITS ACTUALLY JACOBS is…well, Lost like “new hope”.

    Wow…why did I capitalize those words…where have I heard of someone doing something like that before?

  52. @elsewhere

    I think your avatar screams “smokey”!!!

    On a personel note, I have never jammed a printer with my writings…I definetly talk too much, lol….

    Oh…see my post about Dabs…red pen…Change…achalli… it may clear up some of the “what happened” questions you are asking…good questions btw…

    I love the Ramm Dass reference…put that in my easter basket in fun.

    On the enlightenment post from LT…I wrote one something like that on LT…I think I may have saved some of the illuminati posts I did on my old cpu…I will have to check…that would be neat to see what I wrote before, and how close anything has come.

    I took time off after that site went down, and got serious Lost studying in, via rewatching…started over…but it all comes back around apparently…

    Sorry about Kates baby…but why in the world would they make her sleep with Jack right before they left if it was for nothing?

  53. Just reading your last few comments AES, you are making quite a bit of sense. Are you a writer for the show? 😉 KIDDING. Sorry, maybe that’s not yet cool to joke about…

    Agree that Jacob has his own loophole…love the ALL CAPS statement you made. The obvious is the Losties, but I agree that there is more to it.

  54. “Making someone think its their idea, when its actually yours…”

    Bens whole system as leader of the others was based on this principal.

    We see him do it to Locke and the others and the Losties several times…

    Alex even tells Locke when they are on their way to blow up the sub.

    We get to see two very fun thing occur in this episode…but we are not told about one not until the end, the other…not at all.

    Ben is manipulated by Flocke…and MIB is manipulated by Jacob.

    The liars being lied to, manipulators being manipulated…beautiful…

    Oh…and yes, I am a writer/worker on the show.
    I write most of my theories 100% incorrect to just throw people off.
    I try my best to make people believe that I am scatterbrained sometimes, and do a damn good job!
    I also every once in a while get caught up in a bad joke…

    My name is A.E.S., and I have a theorizing on Lost problem…

  55. @cliff87

    20 hours actually…and its quite rude to just show up and scream “Wooot”…

    You have to say it like 10 times so everyone hears you…”WOOOTWOOOTWOOOTWOOOTWOOOTWOOOTWOOOTWOOOTWOOOTWOOOT!!!”

  56. Yep, written beautifully indeed. That’s EXACTLY why I love the show.

    I’m glad to see you moving to the acceptance stage. 😉

    The husband asked today if we are going to talk about anything else until May. (Or talk at all since lately everything ends up going back to “my fictional character friends” anyway. His words.)

  57. I know, I know…I just keep thinking about when Dan tells Desmond to find Hawking…and he remembers it.

    In Flashes Before Your Eyes…the constant even…

    I just think they are examples…they are meant for us to compare what will come.

    I dont know why,but it makes sense to me.

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