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“Who” the monster is…

There has been a lot of talk about the cabin and if it is the monster imprisoned.
I’m going to cut straight to the point.

We see the monster in the early 70s posing as Ben’s mother.
We know the cabin is built sometime after Ethan’s birth, because in Locke’s dream Horace tells Locke he is building the cabin for his wife and son.
We see the monster in 1988 when Rousseau and company land on the island.
We know Horace dies in the purge between 1988 and 1992, and Ben takes Alex in this time as well.

So sometime before the purge/Rousseau having Alex taken, the cabin is built. And somewhere after that, but before September 23 2004, MIB is imprisoned. Roughly 1988 at the earliest…and 1992 at the latest…based on island events that we are aware of.

We know the monster was on the island roaming in 2004 when the losties crashed. We also see someone else that same day…that should not be there as he is.
The monster was free, therefor the ash ring was broken.

We learn in the premier of the final season that Christians body is not on the plane as Jack and the airline assumed. We also know that Christians casket was in the middle of the jungle…empty in 2004.
John says…”They lost your fathers body, they didnt lose your father.”. Meaning that the body has nothing to do with who is inside.

I believe that the casket that we saw Jack look into, and chop up after discovering his father being missing in season one is the one from the NEW timeline created post incident. It flashed to the island as the Ajira Losties did on “316”.

There is so much talk of the Shepard bloodline being important.
Could this have been why Aaron was not supposed to be on the island…A male proxy? A way for MIB/Smokie to get “home”. Why would he need a child…where is home?
I have harped on Child issues before, and feel that their innocence is the key to lost…they are a blank slate… a tabula rasa if you will.

I do not think Christian is on MIBs side…I think he is MIB.
Not the man on the beach, I think he was another “proxy” used by the monster to communicate.

Christian is Jack, the hero’s weak spot. Christian is Jacks constant. No matter what timeline, on or off island, past present or future…Christian is there, which is why it is ever so important that jack be there as well.
No matter if imprisoned by the others, or walking through a hospital three years after his death…Christian is there…haunting Jack.

Christian pushes Jack into being the man he is, before and after his death. He constantly tells him to “let go”.
He had to make sure JACK was the one who went to Australia on that exact day, the one who brought him back.
He will now have to face his son, and the only way Jack can win, is to realize that it is not his father anymore…to let go.

In “Dead is Dead”, Benjamin Linus knows the name Christian, and responds to it in a very negative manner…almost fear. Why does Ben know it? More importantly…if he knows it, why is it never mentioned before by other “Others”?
Because it is the name of the one who is their opposition…the name of their nemesis.

What better name to have as the ultimate nemesis against good, in an ironic, “Lost” sort of way.

Rough around the edges…but not a bad shot in my opinion.

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Written by

A.E.S.

Abbot Enheduanna Schwarzschild

64 thoughts on ““Who” the monster is…

  1. Holy Shoot. This is a good theory. No, this is a very good theory. Even if it is totally wrong, I love that a crazy idea that was probably thrown out there before at some point actually gets substantiated so simply here. It gives so much more of a purpose to how it will come down to these deep character issues being resolved for Jack yet nicely wrapped together with Smokey and the other ‘hints’ along the way like family lines, a constant, etc.

    I like it. And that was one my favorite quotes from last night, too…the “They lost your fathers body…” line.

  2. I totally forgot about Ben’s mother.

    I dont think that the cabin was for imprisoning the monster. I had assumed that it was for protecting the people inside the cabin.

    Jacob inhabitted it for a while, which is why he left the picture of the statue so people know hes relocated.

    I agree on christan being MIB

  3. Are you saying that Christian has always been MIB or that Christian is another proxy for MIB?

    Any idea where his “home” might be? Is Christian just waiting for Jack to “let go” so he can rest in peace? In that case I think Christian is causing quite much pain and trouble for others on the way to his peace.

  4. How could Christian be MiB? That just doesn’t make any sense. How can he be imprisoned while being Stateside being Jack’s dad? That’d be one helluva sabatical.

  5. Ilie, thats exactly what I am saying. Except not to get peace…to get “home”.

    Yojimbo, No…it doesnt make more sense to me to be corner yourself in the middle of the jungle, rather than trap the monster in the cabin…not at all.

    “How can he be imprisoned while being Stateside being Jack’s dad?”
    It may have to do with all the trips he takes to Australia.

  6. Kim, that was my second favorite line behind “Sorry you had to see me like that…

    Glad you like this…

    Roanak, I think MIB left the picture after his chance to escape.
    Why would Jacob leave the statue?
    The monster obviously cant hurt him or it would have done so on the beach in the “incident”…why protect himself?

    Richard Alpert if anyone else…but I think he will be “chained” to Black Rock as we learn more about him.

  7. haha AES i was saying similar things on your other post with your most recent comment here.

    and jacob says: WHEN you find your loophole, ill be right here waiting for you. he doesnt have to stay at the statue the whole time (and doesn’t since he visits the losties off island)

  8. Great well thought out post. A few points though. First of all, I have been thinking more into the whole ‘cabin as a prison’ theory. One more note to help credit this theory would be from the premiere when Richard sees the firework. He freaks out and when he sees MIB he says, “You?!” This implies that he thought that MIB wasn’t able to be around. If you watch that scene while thinking that MIB was imprisoned it definitely fits with the reaction and how they interact. I definitely forgot about the dream Locke had though. That is a great scene for placing when the cabin is made. Good catch!

    Also, I’ve thought for some time that MIB was also Christian. In my mind the only two logical scenarios is that he’s either MIB or Jacob. A scene that leads me to believe that it’s MIB is when Sun and Lapedes go to Dharmaville in the future and Christian visits them. He tells them to follow Locke. Why would Jacob tell them to follow what he knew was MIB?

    And Yojimbo, he’s not saying that MIB is still imprisoned. He’s saying he was imprisoned and somehow he got out. I think the implication in A.E.S.’s post is that the crash had something to do with it. However, I think it had to happen earlier than that. Ben knows how to summon him, which implies that this is something he’s been able to do for some time.

    -Benhamine

  9. jacob could want them to follow locke. he knows a war is coming and wants them to be safe. i mean it seems like he knew he was going to die. hes placing his chess pieces near the enemy.

  10. AES, I really like your post and the thoughts contained in it. I would like to start off by adding part of a comment that I posted in Achalli’s theory regarding the Nemesis/Smoke Monster reveal as follows:

    “There is still soooo much mystery surrounding Nemesis/Smokie. Consider the following conversation between Nemesis and Ben after Nemesis/Smokie finishes off Ilana’s crew in front of Ben”.

    “Ben asks Nemesis “What are you”? Nemesis responds by saying: “it’s not what am I, but who am I….. He also concludes this conversation by telling Ben that he just wants to go home”.

    “That in and of itself is a mystery, when you consider where is home? If all Nemesis is, is a ’smoke monster’ wouldn’t any old underground vent do”?

    “We have seen the ’smoke monster’ take many forms, some human and some like the ‘Medusa Spider’. This suggests to me that we still know so very little. It also sounds to me like Nemesis does have ‘other form’, and that last nights reveal, was only the tip of the iceberg”.

    Having stated that, these are my impressions of the Cabin…. We know that when Ben & Locke made their first visit, John heard a voice say, “Help Me”. Whose voice did John hear? Was it the ‘essence’ of Nemesis or was it somebody that we knew WAS inhabiting the cabin at that time. And, that person WAS Christian Shephard!

    At the time, the actual ‘smoke monster’ was roaming ‘the island’, killing at will, assuming other forms, amongst other things. Jacob was only seen off of ‘the island’, earlier in the lives of ‘the losties’ that he touched and then after the ’06’ left ‘the island’.

    The cloth Ilana found was from Jacobs Tapestry, indicating that he likely did occupy the cabin at some point, but abandoned it.

    At the Temple, as soon as they received the signal that Nemesis/Smoke Monster was coming, they created a ‘circle of ash’ to protect themselves from it. I think it could be said, that the ‘circle of ash’ surrounding Jacob’s cabin was designed to do the same thing at some point or the reverse depending on who was in the cabin.

    To sum it up, I feel we still do not know everything there is to know about Nemesis, The Smoke Monster and Christian Shephard.

    Perhaps a clue to solving this is, to actually look at the name of the ‘smoke monster’….Cerebus, the three-headed dog who guards the entry to the Underworld.

    I think therein, lies a hint…

  11. so his three heads are smokie, shapeshifter and … his natural self perhaps? maybe the temple is indeed a place where they connect with the dead. nice thought dabs

  12. Ben…not the crash…the non crash.
    I think the 815 from the episode the other night is where Christians body comes from.

    Everyone…The only time that we see what I believe to be the monster when he is not in a form that is important to the person he is addressing is in the scene with Sun and Frank.

    Christian, the monster in true form, addresses them showing the 70s picture of the DI.

    I believe that this is the monsters form.

    Watch Dead is Dead when Ben is told the name “Christian”…pure fear and suprise.

  13. AES – this comment of yours: “The only time that we see what I believe to be the monster when he is not in a form that is important to the person he is addressing is in the scene with Sun and Frank.” reminds me of how part of Locke’s ability in 2007 to get Jack on 316 is to bring up “your father…Christian” and how that rattled Jack. Will I be surprised at all if Sun and Frank make mention of “Christian” in the near future to Jack? No. Your theory gives good support as to why, in my line of thinking anyway.

  14. A.E.S – we have debated on a bunch of theories here for over a year now,

    I would normally assume that in your line of thinking you would say that Christian being MIB/Flocke is ‘too easy’

    At this point we know MIB/Flocke/Smokey is able to take on different forms, he has been pulling a lot of the strings, maybe even using Christian as a puppet which is what it looks like to me when Hurley looks in the cabin window

    http://lost.cubit.net/assets_c/2008/02/4x01_cabinCloserLook-thumb-470×771.jpg

    (we see a lifeless Christian in a rocking chair and then very quickly a face pops up, looks EXACTLY like John Locke)

    But Christian still seems like a wildcard, trying to help people as opposed to just judging them. I think to just assume that Christian is being controlled by MIB/Flocke/Smokey is too easy, I can’t accept it I think his role is larger.

  15. I’m not going to speak for AES here, but what I took from this theory is that it isn’t necessarily “easy” that MIB/Smokey and Christian can all be the same manifestations. It’s huge and complicated for the characters that it all centers around.

    It puts a huge emphasis on the ‘players’ that both Jacob and MIB have utilized in their debate and overall purposes. Christian’s missing body in the sideways timeline and the visions of and interactions with Christian in the “815-crashes” timeline are rather important, which is why I can see where AES seems to be going with most of this.

    I also don’t think that just because Christian seems to be “helping” people in the crash timeline rules this out. Manipulation takes a lot of forms. And how it brings it back to Jack facing his “daddy issues” for a character-driven storyline seems to be pretty significant, too…

  16. about the fact that people are saying ben was surprised, shocked, fearful whatever you want to call the was he acted. surely this is just because he knew Jack’s dad’s name because he did research on all their backgrounds. he will have known a lot of things about all of them, but to my knowledge it seems that he knew hardly anything about the island. seeing as how he didnt know what the ‘Monster’ was and Richard and the guys in the Temple do. and he had never seen Jacob for some reason. i dont yet understand why Richard wouldnt have let him see him.
    but i think that the ben knowing richards name is not something massive, i think its a read inbetween the lines case.

    also i DO NOT beleive the Christian is the form of either Jacob OR ‘Monster’ their doesnt seem to be any real reason as to why he would be either of them. i dont think that Jacob or ‘Monster’ are even aware of Christian. and i have an inkling that Christian is their to make sure something happens as it should (maybe something to do with Aaron) and please people lets be nice with this theory but its a lot less carazier than some have been on here, but what if Aaron IS Jacob, i really have no idea how hat would work yet but what is the point in giving us all the Who-Har about Aaron (and Walt for that matter) withour their yet being a reason for it. and of course we dont know where Kate left Aaron or who with.

  17. @AES & kimberly (hey kim I havn’t seen you in months)

    I know Nemesis is a huge role and I know what you’re trying to say, that Christian and smokey are one in the same.

    I just see so many instances where Christian interacts with different characters, he seems to have a different agenda then Nemesis does.

    *This is not backed by any evidence but I think that it is pretty clear that smokey can only take on one form at a time. Otherwise he would have just stood in the statue room as Locke and let the black smoke come in. He had to disappear and then reappear. Samething when Ben went into the smoke monsters chamber, we see Locke, then Locke goes away, monster comes out, monster goes away, alex comes out, alex goes away, Locke is back!

    My point is that when Sun & Lapidus run into Christian, Locke is with Ben and had been with Ben the entire time. Also why would Nemesis want to bring Claire into the cabin? He doesn’t seem to give a shit about her now he just wants to get home.

    When they found out Jacob was dead, the temple folk put down ash, set off a firework but then immediately wanted to speak to Jack, alone! The Shephard family means something to that island, maybe they are decendents of Jacob.

    I think Christian is a seperate entity that is affiliated with Jacob.

    When he told Sun & Lapidus to ‘find John Locke’ they didn’t, they found nemesis. Maybe this is where ALT, soon to be fixed by Jack, John Locke comes into play!

    I don’t know, I am just having a hard time associating Christian with Nemesis.

  18. Remember how Christian told Locke to ‘move the island’

    he thought he had followed instructions but he was wrong, it was Locke who was supposed to turn the wheel not Ben!

    Maybe Sun & Lapidus made a similar mistake by thinking they found ‘John Locke’ when it obviously was not.

    How could John Locke help her get to Jin anyway? The ’77 losties pretty much flashed themselves to 2007, now Jin & Sun are in the same timeline (firework pretty much cleared that up)

  19. Good arguments Josh, especially going with the thought that Smokey can’t take multiple ‘human’ forms at once. For some reason, I like this particular debate because both sides make sense to certain degrees and I like ‘all-or-nothing’ theories at this point in the show. I still think that in not knowing exactly what Nemesis’ “I want to go home” statement meant (and how that correlates to wanting Jacob killed, the rules, etc.) leaves the door wide open for figuring out his motivation and then why/ how he (and Jacob, too) have interacted with all the Losties.

    I have more thoughts to ponder but little time left today for them.

  20. Eko…glad we are on the same page…

    Kim…no its not easy at all…otherwise I figure this would have already been debated…appreciate the back up. I planned to hit your points now…you have already done so.

  21. Destiny…I think that the amount of double names, and name meanings help out in deciding what means what…at least to me.

    And no, Ben does not know much about the island. But the one thing he knew, is where the cabin was when he and Locke went to visit “Jacob”. Ben admits to not knowing Jacob in season 5…yet he knew where the cabin was, and Christian was very noticable there…twice…meaning to me that Ben had a reason to take John there…and has possibly even spoken to Christian before himself…maybe “speaking on Jacobs behalf” again.

    Also, I have talked before about Aaron being Jacob. It makes sense especially now knowing Jacobs appearance. That is an oldie that others have said as well…but still a goodie.

    Oh..I thought Kate left the child with Claires mom? Could be mistaken…

  22. Dabsi, I agree fully that we have not yet learned the whole deal on smokie or MIB…

    I do feel Jacob once inhabited the cabin. And I think he left the knife and the picture to make sure that whoever found it knew where to find him…and a methid to kill him…I believe he wanted to die in that manner, at that time.

    I agree fully that there is more to know about both the monster…and Christian…I just think they will be HEAVILY linked, by way of this post, or something very close.

    I dont rule out Cerebrus for a second, or even a “unholy spirit” as we talked about so long ago…I just think that Christian will be the monsters true human form.

    Thanks for the insight, my apologies for the time being taken for responding to a deep comment. It has many angles, and needed proper attention.

  23. Hey A.E.S, do you think it is possible that alpert is prometheus! Prometheus was chained to a rock for all eternity while an eagle ate his liver every day. Maybe that rock was the black rock. I mean alpert always helps humans just like prometheus did. so maybe jacob freed alpert.

  24. Dharmaniac…you maniac…

    I love your ideas there!

    Just to show how right you could be…Prometheus is the son of Lapetus…as in Lapidus…great call again!

    The Apollo Bars alone are enough to take this to the Greek mythology level. I like the way you think.

  25. AES – don’t you think that we will see Christian again this season. And that when we do he will ‘not be MIB/Smokie’ but speaking to someone else (probably Jack this time)and aiding them while MIB is off trying to ‘get home’

    I mean it seems as though he revealed himself, he walked right by the corpse of John Locke and he keeps coming back to looking like Locke. He will have Ben as his bitch with a twist all season and I really don’t know where Richard stands.

    I truly believe that MIB has revealed himself as ‘the smoke monster’ and that Christian is something else.

    Maybe leader of the others in ’54?

  26. I tried reading through the 41 comments and didn’t see this, but when Sun and Lapidus were talking to Christian wasn’t Ben and Locke taking the boat to Dharmaville at the same time?

    If Locke is the smoke monster/MIB and Christian is the smoke monster/MIB how could he be in 2 places (without some magical smoke monster explanation).

    I think Christian is on Jacob’s side, it would be a good storyline for Jack to have to side with his father against something that as evil like the Smoke Monster is being made out to be.

  27. I have thought of that Josh.

    That is really what I had in mind before a few days ago.

    I dont know why it changed really.

    I am trying to make sense of it.

    It has to be someone we have at least heard of…even a god or entity. Apollo is so prominent on Lost. There are many religions and mythologies.
    But I would really like to believe it is an actual person somehow related to the show.

    If Im wrong, then your scenario could very well play out.
    I could accept someone as Magnus Hanso as being it also. But he ties so much into Black Rock that if it is the ship from the incident, then he wouldnt make sense either.

    There are a lot of new developments already, and I think this could somehow explain things.
    …not to mention giving us a fun ‘Star Wars’ like story…

    I do like the story of him being an ex others leader. That was the thought of many when he first appeared on the island, and still a very good possibility…Im just really pulling for this…

    I am really looking for reasons why it wont work.

    What is your opinion on the idea of him being able to “flash” on and off the island?

    Even if just from my thought of the coffin from the new timeline we saw Tuesday, being the one Jack hacks up in season 1?

  28. Grego – I agree completely, I actually did mention it somewhere up there..

    It seems pretty clear he can only be one thing at a time – he is Locke, disappears, turns to smoke, disappears, to alex (as an example), disappears, back to Locke, etc.

    He also seems to be pretty comfortable in Locke’s body like a default. Or maybe he wants to trick the O6, but Sun and Lapidus could be more credible.

    Regardless of that, one thing at a time, one place at a time. FLocke was with Ben traveling to the main Island when Sun and Lapidus met Christian.

  29. Hi Grego… Hypocritical AES here…

    Josh, this is one more reason to believe in this.

    I said those same things back when this first went down.

    A few people had intentions as these,Christian is MIB… but there was not enough storyline for me to buy into it, and most of them, as I am now, were not 100% sure.

    I always thought that was a great story. How wonderful, Jack gets redemption through working WITH his father rather than against him. Happy ending, great story…honestly I would like it.

    But I would like more,for Jack to but into that exact thought, and at the last mooment find out he was the biggest pawn of all.

    A game piece to MIB HIS ENTIRE LIFE!

    That is where my line of thought that John Locke and Jack will finally see eye to eye…understand not just each other, but be come enlightened as the Others are.

    Why does the “leader” have to be able to kill his father?

    Why does the leader have to BELIEVE he can do this…

    Because his father, nemesis, needs killed to save…humanity, the island, themselves, the universe, (insert anything to save here)…

  30. AES – I think that Christian’s body ‘flashes’ the same way that the losties flashed off the plane.

    They were supposed to be in ’77. So when course correction time came, they went to 77! Sun, Ben & Lapidus did not belong there.

    His body is meant to be on that island.

    As for the reason, I do not know. It just seems to me that the entire Shephard family, the bloodline seems important. Going back to Ray Shephard who tries to run away from nursing homes and did not approve of Jack’s mother (Christian maybe married an outsider like Widmore)

    How Christian is able to be all ghost like, not sure either.

    When you say “It has to be someone we have at least heard of…even a god or entity” Maybe it is Christian!

    On the other hand you could be absolutely right and Christian could have us all fooled, sent Aaron away to break the blooline! Now I am rambling I dk

  31. As for the leader rituals, seems like it was all bullshit.

    Dogen & Lennon seem to be running things over at the temple, asking all nonchalantly when Jacob woulb be arriving as if they get together on a regular basis.

    BEN ‘the great leader’ really doesn’t know anything about the island. Richard says Ben is wasting time with fertility bs.

    I want to see how Ben interacts with Dogen & Lennon, have they ever taken orders from him? Very doubtful!

  32. This is my biggest problem…the processing center and Flocke…well I have found my loophole I believe…
    Ok…the scene with Sun at the processing center did not exactly go down like that.

    Sun, Ben, and Frank are at the boats…sun knocks Ben out and goes to the dock, then the center with Christian and his photo.

    BEN is unconscience and wakes up to John Locke standing over him. Ben was not with John. They “found” John on the beach…just standing there.

    Where was he before they found him. We dont have that as much as we dont have where Flocke went before he and Ben went to see the monster.

    Its good points you are putting up…I just think that I can counter punch…
    I will try…

  33. Why is anyone attacking eachother, I am here to discuss thoughts about LOST, we really don’t know shit so I am sure no one here would be willing to bet their life on a theory. Most of the fun is trying to come up with you own ideas and having people either agree or remind you of why you are probably wrong!

    As for AES – he has always been very respectful and easy going toward me and usualy don’t agree. Stop pointing fingers.

  34. AES – by the way, you definitely do not remember but I do because it was the first LOST theory I had ever written. Came up with an idea and needed to post it somewhere.

    It was the idea that Jacob could have been the son of Amy & Horace (turned out to be Ethan)

    You were the first one to comment, you said you liked the theory a lot but it was ‘too easy’

    kind of why I gave you a hard time today 😉

  35. Its scary…most of the time people can watch a movie or a show, and you learn a pattern, a way of decoding it to figure out what is too easy….and what is something more…Lost is different…its like they read our minds.

    That was a nice compliment, so I will tell you how I think now, lol, keep in mind, Im usually wrong (and always ‘sort of’ wrong)…

    When people post crazy theories everywhere…how often do they come true?

    We see many of the same ideas, and few ‘out there’ ideas.

    I take the ‘out there’ ideas, some my own, and some given up on older thoughts and try to figure out not how they fit…but if they do.

    I just constantly try and debunk my own theory…funny part is, sometimes I do and still post…what the hell…

    Then I get a couple people telling me some of my 88 theories dont mesh together…Ive been theorizing the show for going on like….thirty years now right?

    thats right…up by the eye…88 theories…if my ideas all fit…Id be sitting back and watching, rather than ruining my keyboard everynight.

    But where is the fun in that…lol..

    I still thought Jacob could have worked back then, lol…but it was the first kid we see born there…lol…too easy

  36. Oh…and yes, I am very open to other possibilities, especially the ones you and Greggo lay out…they make sense and fit.

    This is one that grew on me very fast over the last couple days…

    I wouldnt bet my life on it…maybe a fifty in Vegas, but not my life…

  37. Another additional example is Michael and Christian on the freighter…”you can go now…”.

    Why did he appear as Christian to Michael?

    He never told Jack, so why Christian?

  38. AES, I was thinking about the scene with Christian and Michael, too. I am glad you brought it up. I was recounting how Christian has only appeared off-island to Jack and Michael (post-815 crash), whereas Jacob and Richard have appeared in multiple decades to various Losties.

    So the conversation with Michael on the freighter made me think about a few of the series of events that got Michael and the freighter there… it’s not complete, but I am interested in some of this “going backwards” line of thinking to see what influenced what/who.

    I actually started this whole line of thinking with Flocke’s line to Jacob: “You have no idea what I went through to get here.”

    – Locke dies off the island (influenced by Christian, telling him ‘that’s why they call it sacrifice’ — Locke did not listen to ‘Jacob’ first time and let Ben move the island; flashes started – he believes he goes to get the O6 to stop flashes and bring them back)
    – O6 make it off the island via the freighter’s helicopter (Widmore); even though Locke foretold to Jack that bad things were going to happen if they left
    – Michael was on the freighter b/c he didn’t die in wreck (“Island wants him alive”); Ben helps Michael on the freighter; intends to destroy freighter to ‘save’ his friends
    – On freighter, Christian appears to Michael — “You can go now” as freighter explodes — nearly timed with island moving
    – Island moving begins sequence of events where time flashes occur
    – In one flash, FLOCKE sends Richard into jungle to attend to Locke and tell him he’s going to have to die…
    – Locke’s death is part of the loophole that Flocke uses to get back to the island to kill Jacob and start a new sequence of events.

    It’s obviously incomplete, but is interesting to see where Christian pops up and when. If he is on Jacob’s side, it would fit that he knew that Locke would be the first ‘sacrifice’ precipitating the sacrifice that Jacob would knowingly make if Locke did leave and return as Flocke. It also fits to show Christian as part of Nemesis’ plan, too.

  39. Doesn’t christian also pop up in the time of the full statue? when locke turns the wheel christian is there, and it is at that time that we see the full statue for the first time (miles, sawyer juliet, faraday see the statue before the earthquake flash that sends em to dharma time)

    how can christian be so far back in time?

  40. I just feel as though Nemesis has revealed himself, his ability to take smoke form and his agenda ‘to get home’ wherever ‘home’ may be.

    At this point he does not need to creep in the shadows, pretending to be Locke “don’t worry Sun, ill find your husband” – YEA RIGHT, in LA X he did not even acknowledge Sun on the beach, walked right past her.

    I do not know how Christian is alive, why he is special, how he pops around, I just do not think that he has any affiliation with MIB.

    We now know what MIB has been doing (watching the losties, judging them) and his agenda, to kill Jacob and ‘go home’

    But IMO Christian is still very much a mystery.

    ____________________________________________

    Christian told Sun & Lapidus to ‘find John Locke’ that Sun has a journey ahead of her.

    What if they made a misake, same way Ben turned the wheel instead of Locke. Sun & Lapidus thought they found the real Locke, but it was Nemesis.

    **They’re coming** – I think it is pretty clear that Jacob meant the losties. Kate, Sawyer, Jack, Hurley, Jin, Miles, Sayid, even Juliet all flashed to 2007 when the bomb went off. Why did we see that scene of Juliet as a child in the s5 finale, everyone else had a visit from Jacob and she just got bad news about a divorce. Maybe she met Jacob when she ran outside, something we have yet to see.

    I only bring this up because Jacob touched John Locke as well, why would he do this? to help Nemesis?

    I think the real John Locke, the one that Jack will fix in the ALT, the one that Sun & Lapidus are supposed to find will come back, and Christian has something to do with it.

  41. Kim…Good points there…both ways

    Many point to Christian being on Jacobs side…I just think we have more to learn about the monster and Christian. I have to stand by this unless other evidence is brought up…I just keep picturing Flocke under that black Ajira Blnket looking all “sith”…and picture Flocke looking at Jack one day and saying…”Jack…(deep breathing) I am your father…”

    I know cheesy…but why not…?

  42. EKO!!! Great thoughts on the wheel. It crossed my mind about Christian being with Flocke, but the timeline you make not of fits so well with this!
    Im not sure where they are at that point…but it is the timeperiod when John goes down the well…
    Damn, I wished I would have thought about that one…good call.

  43. Josh, I like your ideas there…I was under the same beliefs until I posted this.

    On the note of easy answers…I see Christian being nothing more than a form of the monster being too easy…Christian being on team Jacob being not so easy, but not so hard either…and Christian being the monster…yeah, it seems ridiculous, but I just have this feeling that there is more to him than what we know.

    People are immortal on this show sometimes apparently. How great it would be to learn MIB went off island, and started a bloodline just to help defeat Jacob.

    Its crazy…but I believe it is correct.

    Thanks for the comments. Your thinking last night was helpful in keeping me on my toes with this theory…I might be wrong…gotta wait and see.

  44. Eko, I should have clarified a statement earlier about Christian appearing to Michael and Jack only post-815 crash. Yes, he appeared to Locke during that “pre-815” timeperiod with the wheel, but I guess I was thinking he only appeared OFF-Island to Jack and Michael after the crash. So I look at it a couple of ways, Christian (and whoever he is) was stuck/moving in the island flashing time periods like the Losties (unlike Richard, it would seem) or it doesn’t matter and his presence at that point fits a bit to what AES is saying here.

    Josh, nice work on all of your ideas. I would say this has been a fun topic to think about.

  45. kim you actually got me thinking. how would christian know exactly when in time and where to meet locke in the donkey wheel? The timing is just as perfect as when Flocke tells Richard to help time travelling Locke. My gears are churning once again…

  46. eko, I agree… there’s something to it. It’s obviously impossible to say exactly what it means, but it’s one of those things to consider. I know that we obviously just saw Jacob appear to tell Hurley to take Sayid to the temple, which once again shows that both “entities” have used visions to communicate their “help” or direction. (Nothing new there.) But I do think it’s interesting that in this last appearance by Jacob, he was explicit to Hurley that no one else would see him since he was dead. How do we interpret all the other visions though, like Horace, Alex, Yemi? Do they fit more as MIB/Smokey? I’m totally going off on a ‘vision’ tangent because it is like a sorting process, in a way. So then it comes back to Christian and what purpose his instruction or appearances have seemed to serve. (“Seemed” is the key word obviously.)

  47. Thanks Kim…I have been thinking more on this one…

    Ok, this doesnt pertain to the exact nature of the post, but it covers my thought of Christians casket being the one from the new timeline that the airline “lost”.

    From new evidence, I am now 99.99999999999999% sure, that Christian was already on the island when 815 crashed…or at least knew a lot more than he should for whatever reason.

    Remember the mobisode with Christian walking thru the jungle with Vincent…he tells him to wake up his son, that he has work to do…
    Why is Christian up and about…even Richard says he has never seen someone rise from the dead on the island…was Jacob saving this trick all this time?

    There is also the fact that Christian is wearing his white sneakers in every scene we see him in on the island, yet they hang from one of the trees…production error…probably not…

  48. If not explaining that he is the monster, this should at least help with what side he is on…

    From Lostpedia…

    “Christian’s death, though not shown on-screen, has been confirmed in a Official LOST podcast (April 20, 2007 Edition). Even further clarification was received in “Access: Granted”, when Carlton Cuse stated “In terms of actually physically corporeally in existence… he’s dead”.

    He is, along with Locke, and Yemi, one of three previously deceased bodies that later appeared to be living people. What’s interesting to note is that all three of these men were already dead, and on airplanes, before they came to the Island. A few of Yemi’s appearances were confirmed to be influenced by the Monster in the Official LOST Podcast (March 21, 2008 Edition), however, Christian was confirmed as being one of three characters (Yemi and Kate’s horse being the other two) to be classified as “undead”. Alex similarly died on the Island and later appeared as a manifestation of the Monster.”

    It is clear now that Locke and Yemi (“You speak to me as if I were your brother”) are manifestations of the monster…

    Why would the monster manifest himself into Jacks father for people who dont know who he is?
    Why not Yemi…or the man from the beach?

    It doesnt make sense…

  49. Christian also spent the majority of Jacks life teaching him how “not to be a hero”…something I took before as a reverse psychology of sorts…

    But now, I see it as trying to prevent Jack from doing the miraculous act that I have predicted all along, most recently in “The Greatest Theory I Have Ever Seen…”

    He also visited Claires mother regularly, and tried to convince Claire to pull the plug…then she recovered…in full.

    He drinks, he cheats, he is the definition of a terrible peron when compared to his name…he is and never was a good person.

    The scene at the docks with Sun and Frank you hear and see the monster…then Christian appears in the rec room…all too convenient.

    I am running out of reasons, but they add up quite a bit…

  50. AES – ok I got one for you, and we are going to keep playing this game until we get official confirmation (you know its fun)

    “They’re coming” – safe to assume he meant the ’77 losties considering they are the only people who immediately ‘Flashed’ to 2007 when Jacob died.

    FLocke seemed confused, almost worried about this statement.

    Christian on the other hand had already told Sun & Lapidus about them being in ’77.

  51. …lol…it is fun…thats why I do this…and I like arguing/debating with you, lol…

    seriously, you present good thoughts, many I have had myself, some I still question…one nobody has brought up yet…Ill save that one for later…

    On your question, the one thing you forget is that he also told them they had to go to meet up with John Locke at Bens…that is one of the most important things to me regarding the situation.

    Between that, and the monster making a brief appearance at the docks visually and audio…brief but there…

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