Locke and His Followers

I’m done calling him MIB, Flock, Focke, Smocke, etc… It’s just Locke.

Anyway, he seems to have had a pretty successful recruiting session… He’s got a group of Others all of his own now… bunch of sheep really. That they went so willingly over to Locke just because Sayid told them that was the only place they could be safe was really telling about them. I think this strengthens the case for Jack as the new Jacob. They need a Shephard.

He’s got Claire and Sayid for sure too but he got them a different way… he told Claire that he’d get Aaron back for her (presumably… I don’t think we actually saw him tell her that) and he got Sayid by offering to give Nadia back to him. Two promises I don’t think he can keep, but whatever… he’s evil incarnate, right? You can’t really expect him to tell the truth all the time.

There might be a couple of problems with his group though. They made it pretty clear with Sayid that hearing Locke talk is kind of the way his magic starts to work on you. He spoke to Sayid and after that Sayid wasn’t able to kill him. He spoke to Claire and she’s following him around, doing his bidding… The group of Others following him around seem pretty obviously enthralled. But there’s Kate, tagging along after Claire (it seems) but I don’t remember seeing Locke speak to her. Actually it seemed that he noticed her there and then purposefully didn’t speak to her. She seems to be a little different from the rest of them. She might become a problem for Locke. Sawyer might also be a problem. He doesn’t seem to have been taken in by Locke the way Sayid and Claire were. Maybe because he hasn’t died yet… or maybe it has something to do with what’s happened in the other timeline.

Sayid met up with Martin Keamy (that was pretty awesome) and he killed him. He told Nadia he wasn’t that man any longer but in the end he was. He failed to redeem himself. We don’t really know about Claire and what will happen to her. Kate was on the run but seems to maybe have stopped running when she went back to get Claire at the taxi stand. I think we’ll see some kind of Redemption for Sawyer when we see more of him in the other timeline… Jack found redemption through his Son, David… who knows about Hurley. Maybe he never needed any redemption.

It also tells us a lot about Ben too. Maybe in the alternate timeline Ben has found redemption through his hawk-like monitoring of the coffee machine in the teacher’s lounge! At any rate he spoke with Locke quite a bit and was even duped into killing people by him as many as two times! But he’s still with Jacob’s people.

This next part isn’t theory, it’s just fact. The Dogen/Sayid fight scene was awesome! And watching that dumb hippie die was pretty cool, too.

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58 thoughts on “Locke and His Followers

  1. indeed. i was wondering as well if saying hello to sayid made him unable to be killed or if dogen simply didn’t want him to be swayed. poor dogen, seemed like a good guy.

    anyways the others continue to confuse me. in previous seasons they seem more than willing to sacrifice their lives for the island…but not anymore? maybe they were sacrificing themselves for jacob, not the island, and now hes gone.

    where did all the answers go?

  2. Yeah, it seems that the Others were all about Jacob and not the island and they were doing it because he kept them safe from Locke. Now that he’s gone they just do whatever they think they need to do to save their own skin!

    I think that the people coming to the island will be a group loyal to Jacob but they’ll fall in behind Jack, the new shephard.

  3. highbrow,
    I am so glad you brought up Locke and the Others again. After watching last night’s episode, I was having a distinct movie flashback.
    I should probably explain first that I believe that all of the Others are dead–anyone who dies and is left unburied can be inhabited by the restless soul of someone else who died on the island. So the Others, can never make any progress, they are locked into their former behaviors which led them to death in the first place. The leaders of the Others have been LIVE people on the island. I think that the leader of the Others can see and speak to Jacob(they have all been candidates), but that none of the Others can see him after they have died.
    It is sounding more and more like MIB is not the only one trapped on the island–all of these lost souls are too. Maybe that is why MIB thinks Jacob is doing a bad thing. My mind immediately leapt to “Poltergeist” last night. Remember how the restless, LOST souls were attracted to the light of Carol Ann’s spirit instead of the light of heaven–they weren’t evil, they were just misdirected. And Locke is getting just as creepy as the preacher in the second movie trying to lead his flock toward the wrong light. So could one of the Losties be the one who will be the next light–and if so, would that be a good or a bad thing?
    Also, I don’t think Kate is infected (you have to die first) or fooled, I think she is just stunned and temporarily mesmerized by what she sees happening before her.

  4. I agree… Sayid and Claire are both dead and that is important… Kate and Sawyer have not died… yet. Hurley and Jack haven’t died yet either. Obviously one’s status as simply alive or resurrected is important but I’m not sure we really know exactly how yet. I think that redemption in the other timeline is also important. If Jack dies and is resurrected do you think he’ll go to Locke or Jacob? I think he’d go to Jacob because of his success in the other timeline of purging his personal demons and finding peace.

  5. That is a really interesting question….I had not thought of the possibility that someone could die and go to one OR the other–it seems as if the dead are primarily MIB’s territory on this island–because they continue to make the wrong decisions and are easily led down the wrong paths, just as they did in life. But what if one of the recently dead, maybe Sayid?, “infected” Jack after he dies. If someone who had the right attitude resurrected him, he might be drawn to Jacob instead. I am going to think about this a little more…..Thanks for responding 🙂

  6. This is my thought on the subject. If they dead automatically went to Locke then what would be the purpose of the test? Dogen revealed that he purpose of the test is to put the person on a scale and see how they measure up, good or evil. Sayid fell to the side of Evil. I think people who die and are resurrected would be put on the scale and if they fall on the side of good they would go to Jacob. I think the thing that makes them good or evil though is what happens in the alternate timeline.

    This could become a significant problem for Locke. Locke is obviously the black smoke, evil incarnate, etc… but Locke (the original) is still in there (“DON’T TELL ME WHAT I CAN’T DO!”)… Locke, in the alternate timeline, seems to have found his peace and acceptance and that may be how he’ll be able to overcome the evil entity (man I wish they’d just put a name to that guy!) and save everyone in the end.

  7. We know that Smokey cannot kill candidates, and that the candidates are alive(I think?). I think Smokey only “kills” (kind of a relative term on the island) the people that were not aligned with him in the past. Whoever has “infected” Sayid and Claire must have done his bidding in the past and he recognizes them for who they are now….I was beginning to think that Smokey could only “kill” the people who were already dead–ressurected–whatever–but Smokey did kill Shannon and she seemed like herself the whole time, right? Maybe she was never a candidate–only the main Losties are….

  8. How do we know that Smokey can’t kill a candidate? The only thing that I can think of that even remotely references that is when the child appeared and said “You can’t kill him”, but there’s a very strong case to be made for the fact that he was referring to Jacob.

  9. Sorry, should have said “It seems as if” instead of we know. I also thought when I watched that episode that the boy was referring to Jacob. I guess it just seems to fit that Jacob’s touch would confer some kind of protection on the candidates and to fit with what I think is happening on the island. If Smokey could just kill anyone who stepped foot on the island, then there would not even be a power struggle of any kind, right? I really believe that the candidates have got to be given a chance to make a right or wrong decision before they are just snuffed out by Smokey.

  10. I couldn’t be happier about the hippie dying either. It’s one less character to congest this already congested cast…..and one less name we have to learn. I agree, they need to tell us the name of this evil incarnate/smokie/MIB/Locke/Flocke/nemesis entity.

  11. I’m wondering about the idea that Jacob and Locke are really just the good and evil sides of the same person/being/entity/whatever. That would explain the lack of a name. It would be a dead giveaway to hear Locke say “Hi… My name is Jacob”. It would make sense though if you think about Christian in the cabin. He claims to speak for Jacob but we just can’t seem to come to a real consensus as to which side he’s on… he would be telling the truth either way if they were both Jacob.

  12. I see what you’re saying Highbrow, but that would be a real bitch to explain. We’ve seen Jacob and MIB together in two seperate circumstances, once with a witness (Ben). So if they’re both the same person, but have two seperate bodies AND motives, I’d like to see the writers explain that one.

    After the way Dogen and Sayid describe what Jacob and MIB have done to them though, there is a reason to believe that you’re onto something. There are striking similarities between the two in terms of what they do to people.

  13. Actually what we’ve seen is two beings (for lack of a better word) occupying a body. We don’t know that the guy we know as Jacob exists naturally as we’ve seen him. Just like we don’t know that the other guy normally likes wearing black shirts so much. There isn’t even any reason for us to believe that the actual Jacob and/or Other Guy are human. They may be something else, maybe just spiritual or something. In that case I don’t see why they can’t be two aspects (good and evil) of the same entity acting independently.

  14. I found a recent interview with Terry Quinn (Locke) where he talked about bringing out MIB. He said something to the effect of Locke still coming through in MIB. Which I think goes right along with your comment earlier Highbrow.

  15. Locke and Jacob could be the same person. I think they could be a double personality of somebody. Maybe that is why the kid two weeks ago said “You can’t kill him!” You can’t kill a personality of yourself without killing yourself.

    I have said all along that entire show of LOST is taking place in someone’s head (mind). It is not real.

  16. Well thankfully both Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse have debunked the theory that it’s all just a dream and happening in some guy’s head… I think that would be an incredibly unsatisfying way to end the show.

  17. Lol- Oh, I don’t know–if he ate enough Dharma mayonnaise, peanut butter, mac and cheese, burritos and washed it all down with some Dharma chocolate milk, he might!

  18. Hey, Chief – the hippie dude’s name was ‘Lennon’ – and at least he wasn’t shot. Maybe Dogan was his Yoko. All I know is…

    Darkpool = “Pool of Death”.

    Keamy. Wanted a temple-fight, but liked the ‘Went-to-School-of-Christopher-Walken-acting-class’ Keamy. Not quite a creepy as when strapped-on-explosive-stuff Keamy, but good enough.

    Disagree w/Sayid in Sidewaysville. Thought he killed Keamy ‘cuz he hurt his brother – like killing the chicken to protect from father. (Yeah. a father issue. that’s the ticket.)

    That Smocke does has a slick (and probably forked) tongue. It’s hard to con a con, and Sawyer get’s the big con. His ‘people skills’ had him sum up Smocke … pointing out he clearly wasn’t Locke ‘cuz Locke was always afraid (and confused, fought showing it outwardly).

    Kate. Think she caught him off-guard. She’s not one of ‘the numbers’ but her name WAS in the cave (and I’m pretty sure Smokie studied every name quite well).

    Oh, sorry, gotta’ use 2 moniquers to distinguish between ‘real’ Locke (who still lives in Sidewaysville) and Smocke (who’s the smoke monster) – until we can prove they are the same.

  19. Well the two names is just getting annoying. The producers say that on the set they just refer to them both as Locke.

    Sayid didn’t necessarily need to kill Keamy. I guess what he should have done was tell them what they wanted to hear then went to the authorities. The point is that he handled that whole situation as the old Sayid. This is unlike Jack who took his issues from the other off-island timeline we’ve seen and turned it all around.

  20. Yeah, it says “Lennon” all over the place on the web, but not once is he called Lennon in the show, consider me a “casual” watcher. Regardless, he’s dead. Good riddance.

  21. As far as which side you go to when you die. I believe could have something to do with the condition of the water. When Sayid was put in the water they made mention of how dirty it was .Maybe this was a determining factor in who’s side he would be on or was a tell so to speak that gave them an idea he might lean towards Locke.

  22. Jacob HAD to know this was going to happen to Sayid when he brought him back to the island. Remember, Nadia died crossing the street when Jacob was there, and he didn’t care one bit. God, what’s up with these people?

  23. The water thing doesn’t explain the testing. The water turned because Jacob died and it lost its power. If it was the state of the water that determined the spiritual condition of the recently resurrected (I guess) then why would they have this test established? If that were the case then everyone who was resurrected before Jacob died and the water turned would have been good and testing wouldn’t have been necessary.

    Besides, it’s pretty obvious that the water did not have the effect that the Others expected. They expected Sayid to be healed, right? The way Ben was healed after he was shot… whatever they expected to happen in the water just didn’t happen. Miles said he was dead for a couple hours and everyone was shocked when he came back to life so I don’t think the water has anything to do with it.

  24. I must say, there is nothing these writers can do that will make sense to all of this mess. It’s beyond saving.

    There is no way in hell that we are going to be able to look back and say “So that’s why Jacob did this!”, or “That’s what that was all about!”

    We, the fans, get tugged in too many different directions every episode. Then we hop on here, see something plausable, next week the plausable theory is obsolete due to the fact that someone in the show was lying, or they are now.

    I can’t wait for the Richard episode. It’ll most likely be one of the first episodes that make any kind of sense at all. If we find out that Richard constantly lies his ass off as well, I’m probably going to literally be done watching this show.\

    I want to think that Jacob has good motives, that Locke has bad ones. ONCE AGAIN THOUGH, after last night, who frickin knows.

    I love this show. But there’s a part of me that wants to smack a writer in the face, and tell him to stop writing so obnoxiously. I’m gonna go crazy if these vague answers don’t stop.

  25. Chiefof16—I was really bothered by Nadia being hit by a car also and then I wondered: Did Jacob actually save Sayid’s life–maybe Sayid would have died as well if he had not stopped him from crossing right then? Or maybe he just knew that Sayid would never come willingly if he was with Nadia–which doesn’t make him seem very good, for sure…

  26. @odette
    shannon wasn’t killed by smokie, ana lucia shot her.

    i wonder about smokies scales, does that mean he doesn’t believe in a good and evil and thats his private joke?
    i wonder how the healing applies to people. locke and rose were both healed by the island, but shannon, boone and ben weren’t.
    if its just candidates that are healed does that make rose a candidate?

  27. Hi Everyone-

    I just want 2 say I think the deal Claire made w/ MIB had NOTHING to do w/ Aaron… The deal she made was for her mom Carole Littleton, to wake up from her coma… (This is VERY similar 2 Dogen’s deal…) I think she just 4got her deal bc she’s infected b/c she died in the house explosion. She had 2 leave Aaron for her Mom 2 awaken, I believe that was her ‘deal’ w/ smokey…

  28. Obviously now there is a line drawn…and we have two definite sides. Sayid and Claire are losing their minds probably because of whatever darkness is growing inside of them, with MIB as their leader. Now we have Ben on the good side with the Jacob losties. Odd how people switch sides so quickly?
    I believe Ben will do something in the next episode which will shift the balance of followers a bit.
    Possible spoiler:

    I believe the real Locke is returning, one way or another…because of Ben digging up a grave. Though it may just be because he is trying to redeem himself some other way.

  29. I can’t help but think of something from Season 4 that brings relevance to Season 6.

    It was when Hurley see’s Jack in the sports hall, and says something along the lines of ‘You were right Jack.. I should’ve gone with you.. Not Locke’. At first I assumed itwas just relevant to Jack wanting to get off the Island and Locke wanting to stay on.

    Now I think that perhaps it’s somehow linked to this series with the whole Locke (MIB) thing and Jack with Jacob.

  30. I’ve always wondered about Carole Littleton waking up… I feel pretty strongly about Claire’s deal though, I’m just not sure if she made it w/ Smokey and/or Christian… She could have made the deal w/ the ‘good’ side, and then turned 2 the ‘dark’ side (just like Darth Vader, for Hurley 😉 ) When she started 2 feel the guilt, and let the infection overcome her…

  31. The other’s jumping ship was hilarious. Jacob’s army is pretty useless so far. Than again you got Ilana still fighting the side of the righteous. Anyone else get the Matrix ending coming or it just me. Jack vs Locke. Fitting if it comes down to it, maybe the little boy will play the role of the oracle LOl

  32. Reminds me of King’s ‘The Plague’ – the choices people make whether to go to the good side or bad side. Some were evil/good. Some were afraid. Some were just stoopid. But, in many cases, the choice wasn’t the one you’d guess knowing the ‘who’ they were before push-came-to-shove.

    Like the Claire’s mum bit, too. Thought she was a plant to take Aaron, but this is good, too. Flaire clearly made her bid awhile ago … when she left w/Aaron and went w/apparition or FChristian.

    Couldn’t help but wonder w/Dogan’s story – are they the same guy who made the deals … or is it Jacob comes through w/his (Juliet’s sister) and SMocke’s a liar (but he SAYS he always does what he promises … )

  33. hey highbrow where has it been explained that the water changed because Jacob died?I must have missed that episode.And they said it lost its power so thats why its dark?And who were the people who were resurected before Jacob died?Lets see we have Claire and we know the water was clear then because they told us that in the episode I missed.And we have who else?Lets see Ben, well we did’nt actually see him put in the water to be healed so, well again unless its in that episode I still need to see.

  34. Highbrow, love your post and your idea that the alternate time line (or separate reality, whichever you prefer) affects the outcome of the candidates. I am getting that feeling the more and more I see each character’s story. Also love Sinister’s theory about Claire’s mom – spot on! And I have thought before that – just as the main theme of the show is a yin/yang, evil/good, black/white balance, Mr. Evil Incarnate Locke and Jacob are somehow on opposite ends but connected in a way where they can’t kill each other. I would not be disappointed or surprised to find out they are in fact two ends of the “scale” as Dogen says, of one person. After all, isn’t that the main theme of most religions that have been pulled in? A battle between good and evil within each of us? The candidates are obviously the main aspect of finding out which side wins, but Jacob and Dr. Evil answer to someone.
    Sidenote – interesting that the “battle” or balance is now between Jack and Locke, once again, and has come full circle. Or, I should say, I think it will be. And can’t WAIT for next week when Ben gets his due. If they don’t deliver … seriously … that would be ridiculous after that preview.

  35. I guess some of the Others came to DharmaVille, grabbed Claire’s body and ran her back to the Temple to be resurrected in the water then ran her back and put her back into the wreckage of that house all before Sawyer could run over to get her from next door. Wait, Claire’s resurrection had nothing to do with the pool of water. Just like Sayid.

    Ben being healed… just like I said above. The pool now is definitely different from the pool before. Unfortunately, Dogen didn’t look at the pool of water and say, for the benefit of the audience, “The pool of water has been completely clear up to this point but now it is not. This must mean that something horrible has happened to Jacob.” Instead he just showed that he was confused by the murky water and basically said he’d try healing Sayid in it but no guarantees.

  36. Part of my comment got cut off at the top…

    Based on the reaction of the Others we know that the pool wasn’t always murky. They look at it and say “WTF?” because they’ve never seen it that way before. The only event that I can think of that could have changed the water is the death of Jacob. If not then it’s something we just haven’t been shown.

  37. There is at least one other reasonable explaination I can think of that could have changed the water murky and that is the bomb set off at the Dahrma construction site.Just trying to point out you used alot of facts that have’nt been proven yet to shoot down my comment.But its a day later and I’m over it.

  38. I think unless what Jacobs been up to really is for the greater good, then i think Jacob and MIB are both about as bad as eachother.
    They’re both playing God, and thats never a good thing.

    I agree Highbrow, it seems they’re both two sides of the same coin, they both use similar tactics, but hopefully Jacobs cause will be a good one.

    That being said, if the mighty morphin’ smoke monster turns out to be the goodguy, i praise the writers for their originality.

  39. I’ll try to keep this short but I doubt it will happen.

    I totally agree! No, not totally (disagree with some of the comments) but quite a bit otherwise.

    I see how we were meant to pick up on the power of Locke’s “persuasion” in speaking to people. (I can’t help but think of how Satan has been described as the embodiment of lies/deceit… This would imply that anything and everything said is some form of deceit.) The apparent choice between following or death seems to go along with “Evil Incarnate” – I am just not seeing how there is a lot of good in that. It was definitely different than the choices given to Sawyer back in the cave. Which to me implies that Jacob’s only remaining candidates are the 815 Losties and Locke/EI has different rules to play by with them. It’s all about choices once again, and like creepy Sayid said to Dogen, they are hard choices.

    Okay moving on…the best stuff in here is about redemption.

    You said, “He (Sawyer) doesn’t seem to have been taken in by Locke the way Sayid and Claire were. Maybe because he hasn’t died yet… or maybe it has something to do with what’s happened in the other timeline.”

    This connection between the two timelines and where redemption is found is so awesome and, as you probably know by now on my other posts, it’s the part of the story I am totally drawn to this season.

    We were supposed to see the way that Nadia was encouraging/pleading with Sayid to go do something other than what he was asked to do by her husband (and on island by Locke.) But the crazy thing was in how he did seem to choose the better path, yet Keamy’s guys (and the opportunity to kill them) found him anyway. Same thing on the island. And I think up in the comment section Chief said something like, “Jacob had to have known this would happen.” I agree, I think he did know. I think Sayid was potentially being given yet another opportunity to follow a path in life differently than he had lived previously, but he just couldn’t do it. It’s the same for Sayid in both timelines.

    For Hurley, even though there are differences in circumstances between the timelines, his nature and his acceptance of life seems to be consistent. My only complaint about Hurley is/was back in that scene in the Lighthouse when Jack was being a jackass and screaming at Hurley…I wish that Hurley would have punched him and laid him out flat.

    Thanks for not bringing up aliens.

  40. Ok…skipping over a bunch of comments…back to the question you ask at #14…

    What if instead of Flocke/MIB and Jacob being the same entity as “Jacob”…why not Jacob and MIB being the two sides of John Locke…?

    I believe Locke at the very beginning tells us all that its about 2 different sides, light and dark…what iff they are the two different sides of John?

  41. is it that unlikely?

    Everyone knows who he is…he has been protected by Jacob…and MIB through the hands of Ben killed Jacob…kind of makes him a double agent in a way, no?

    He is seen alive and dead in one time line, crippled in another, his form is taken by another entity in the same one he is dead in…

    John was the first and only one we know of the survivors to have contact with MIB very early on and survive…He is the savior and the bad guy…the hero and the villian…well, Jacks going to be the hero, but I know you dont want to hear that right now…

    If I were to say that MIB and Jacob were the same person, I would say John Locke before anyone else including the two of them…but I really am having trouble buying into “fight club” in a time machine…so well see what happens…good thoughts though…

  42. Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that I thought it was unlikely. I don’t think it is. I do think that Jacob and that other guy are two sides of one thing… and to say they they represent the good and evil side of John Locke… not too out there in my opinion. Not far out there at all.

  43. Didnt mean to imply you thought it unlikely either…just didnt know if you had considered the scene with the stones into everything we are seeing now…

    I really dont like combining “Fight Club” with “Rant” to make something that is so expected at this point…it would at least be fun to have them both turn out to be versions of Locke…

    It makes the idea of not being able to commit suicide even more creepy though…why couldnt Jacob kill MIB, butcause he cant kill himself…nope, just cant buy it for this show…

  44. I don’t think it’s the same physical person… I don’t think he/they are even people! I mean, at least one of them can turn himself into a cloud of black smoke for crying out loud! Why can’t they be two halfs of the same entity and exist separately (physically)?

  45. I like that idea…I could deal with two halfs of the same ‘entity’…not person…that would be fun.

    I also thought long ago about a “Meet Joe Black” type of scenario, involving John Locke, except having him trapped as a god not realizing and this whole thing is his journey…wrote a theory on it once on another island actually…I didnt ever write it here for a very good reason…

    The two halfs would explain two of the biggest mysteries on the show…why MIB cannot kill Jacob in relatin to “suicide”…and why we never learn the name of MIB yet…

    Good topic…I highly reccommend writing a theory or even general discussion, taking this in the direction of “an entity” and not a man…it owuld be a different spin…I think it would draw a lot of fire and “isaidthats”…but with the right background and info it oculd stand out coming from you…good discussion…

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