Kate & Flocke’s Conversations

“Have you ever had an enemy? Someone that you needed to hate? Very powerful, isn’t it? Claire was devastated without Aaron. She needed something to… something to keep her going. So, I gave her something to hate. And then… when you told her the truth… all those feelings, all that anger that she’d been holding on to for so long… it had to go somewhere.”

This was Flocke’s “explanation” to Kate about why Claire attacked her. Keep in mind he found her in a moment of distress, sitting alone in the trees…in other words, “At some point in your life, James (Kate), probably when you were young and miserable and vulnerable. He came to you, he manipulated you, pulled your strings like you were a puppet. And as a result, choices you thought were made, were never really choices at all. He was pushing you, James (Kate). Pushing you.. “ Sorry, couldn’t resist quoting him again.

Anyway, this conversation with Kate seemed as if Flocke wasn’t simply explaining Claire’s behavior. It was more like he was explaining Kate’s past behavior to Kate, as in her motivation for killing Wayne. And as we know, her running ultimately is what got her to the island.

I’m not proposing much here other than the idea that for as much as we have known to be Jacob’s ‘off-island’ influence and interactions with the candidates prior to their island time, I also think that we have one more reason to believe that MIB participated in shaping their ‘destinies’ as well. I don’t yet think it’s as black and white as the Sideways timeline is MIB-controlled and the 815-crash timeline is Jacob-controlled. I don’t think that the ‘candidates’ are limited to being Jacob’s candidates, either…I think Flocke might have said that as half-truth. After all, Flocke contradicted himself in explanations about the island needing a protector (or not) to Sawyer and Ben. To Sawyer, a candidate without a line through his name, the island is just an island that doesn’t need anything. To Ben, he said the island still needs a protector.

Flocke’s ‘power’ (or manipulation or influence, whatever you want to call it) is obviously bigger than simply an ‘infection’ that turns you into an apathetic killing-machine like Sayid. It is interesting how his offers of hope (Sayid’s lost love restored, Claire reunited with Aaron), safety/protection (the Others), power (Ben), freedom (Sawyer) are juxtaposed with the methods of bringing those things about: with fear, hate and death.

Sorry, rambling there…back to Kate. I found it interesting that we didn’t see Kate take Flocke’s hand after this little talk. Perhaps we are supposed to think that at this point she is like Ben from the week before…there is still an opportunity for her to choose which ‘side’ she will fall on. He is working on the recruiting, but there isn’t evidence of a commitment yet.

So Flocke was persistent with Kate. He followed up by telling her about his own mommy-issues. Yes, I think this was for us to see that we will soon be getting MIB’s backstory, and ultimately that it is correlated to Jacob’s, too.

LOCKE: I know what you’re feeling, Kate. I know what you’re going through.
KATE: And how do you know that?
LOCKE: Because… my mother was crazy. Long time ago, before I… looked like this… I had a mother, just like everyone. She was a very disturbed woman. And, as a result of that, I had some growing pains. Problems that I’m still trying to work my way through. Problems that could have been avoided had things been different.
KATE: Why are you telling me this?
LOCKE: Because now Aaron has a crazy mother too.

Here’s what I take from that:

1) We’re going to learn a bit of MIB’s family history and why he has some of the “problems” he’s still “working his way through.” (I love that totally ambiguous admission that he’s working through it in all his current scheming and interactions.)

2a) The half-sibling relationship with Christian-Jack-Claire (+Aaron) could be the foreshadowing of the relationship between MIB and Jacob.

2b) Remember discussions last year about how Kate and Jack’s little pre-316 overnighter could have produced a little Jack2 in Kate? Hmmm….interesting to think of what could become of Jack’s offspring and Claire’s offspring. Maybe it will go there, and maybe not.

3) I ultimately think MIB wants Kate to think that Aaron could become like him (“Evil Incarnate”/Smoke Monster) with ‘growing pains’ to work through (partially by taking over the appearance of a dead man). Will this deter Kate from trying to save Claire? (If Claire is somehow partially dead, is that even possible?) Or will Kate see this to be reason enough to leave Claire if the chance presents itself? Or will the person that Kate ultimately sacrifices herself for be Claire because somehow that will work to redeem/break the cycle in motion with crazy parents and messed up children? (Back in my “Kate’s Destiny” theory, I proposed that Kate might have to sacrifice herself to save Sawyer and/or Jack.)

The Sideways timeline is taking us back to Kate for a reason, because we already saw her influence Claire and Aaron staying together in that timeline early on this season (mirroring her goal on island). Now it goes to the bigger picture and whether or not her “running away” issues will be resolved…I never thought I would compare Kate with Ben, but it looks as if the Sideways choices she will face are going to be much like what happened in/with Dr. Linus. If Ben Linus can refuse Flocke’s offers (the first one so far!) then what will Kate do?

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8 thoughts on “Kate & Flocke’s Conversations

  1. It looked like Flocke was going to try and charm Kate for a second with a fake smile during the converstion after Claire attacked her but then thought better of it and took a different tact with Kate.It was like he was trying to think of the best way to manipulate her or get through to her.
    Flocke told Ben to meet him on Hydra Island, didn’t he? Ben would have walked right into Whidmore’s hands. I doubt he would have been doing much protecting of anything after that.

  2. Some very good thoughts here Kim.
    You have a lot of thoughts, so forgive my jumping around…

    Im glad to see theorizing on small bits of the show, rather than chasing the ‘dream’ of uncovering Lost…

    That conversation with Kate was amazing…not unlike every conversation Locke has had with anyone this season.

    My favorite line so far came in this episode, “Its kill or be killed…and I dont want to be killed.”

    This line you wrote…
    Remember discussions last year about how Kate and Jack’s little pre-316 overnighter could have produced a little Jack2 in Kate? Hmmm….

    Lol…that is kind of the end to my “Greatest…” theory that I wrote right before the season started…good stuff. I am aware of the likely-hood of it going down the way I said it, but I cant help but feel that there is a purpose of Kates night visit with Jack, right before returning…good call…

    You present some good options for Kate.

    I have to ask though since you brought it up, do you think Kate was ‘pushed’ into visiting Jack…she was in and out…Sawyer himself couldnt have pulled a better one nighter?

    I find it interesting that Kate has interactions with the people off island, that she seemed the closest with on island. Claire and Aaron, Sawyer, and even a quick scene with jack on the plane.

    Many things like this lead me towards the direction of off island being more of an ‘occurrence’ that will turn up not exactly real…but as you allude, it obviously will mean something.

    Bens redemption off island leads to his redemption on island, at least from a narrative perspective.

    Im glad you are following Kates story, its something many here are ignoring, seemingly out of ‘boredom’. But its a tale that carries significance due to not having a clue what Kates role is now.

    I think as Kate does what she does, which is ‘run’ (makes you think back to Jack screaming “RUN KATE”)…people will follow.

    It wont be until Kate stops running, which I feel will occur off island first, that she will find her role in all of this.

    I do think that she will not let Claire go. The idea of her sacrificing makes sense.
    She feels responsible for leaving Claire and separating her and Aaron, and I feel she will do everything possible to fix what she feels that she broke…the question is, if she herself carries a child, how would that affect her decision making skills in regards to a self sacrifice…hmmm indeed…

    A great post. Im very happy you are staying with Kate…a very different path than many here have chosen…

    I have more to say on this, and Im trying to get something out before the episode on tuesday…but I will come back to this…good post, and I really hope you can get a handle on Kate.

    I feel its something that many are steering clear of due to lack of information and ideas…again, great job…

  3. i think you are right in that locke is using what the person holds dearest to them like ben’s power, sawyer’s freedom to manipulate them. ive been saying that for a while too on the bagillion posts about locke and kate’s conversation. he is just saying all that crap about the crazy mom to get kate to do what he wants.

  4. I personally don’t think Flocke wants Kate w/ his little group b/c she is going 2 cause him more problems, and I think Aaron is smokey’s replacement

  5. Roland, I agree that Flocke has thought through what approach to take with the Losties in his efforts to recruit them. I actually have been thinking even more about that since posting this because I find it so interesting to not only compare the ‘offers’ that he is making to them, but also to now look back on the moments that Jacob interacted with them. I really like how the writers are contrasting their methods.

    You are totally right about what would have happened to Ben if he had followed Flocke’s directions. The “protecting of the island” appeal was just to play to Ben’s power issues. Isn’t it interesting how for someone who looks as if he is giving some pretty straightforward ‘answers’, he is contradicting himself to the point of lying at times? Jacob’s lack of straightforwardness could be construed as deceitful, too…but so far from what I can remember, I wouldn’t say he’s lied to anyone.

  6. AES, thanks for chatting about this with me. Where to start?

    I do remember you talking about a little babe for Kate, so I figured at this point it’s worth bringing back up. Especially now that we’ve also seen a fatherly Jack, transformed and a bit more free from his daddy issues in the Sideways timeline. It would be interesting to see this on-island “I’d be a terrible father” have that come to be reality in both timelines. (I still have no idea what to call them, so “timelines” it is for now.)

    If Kate is pregnant, I would have to jokingly call it destiny at this point… 😉 Here is another way of looking at it, too…is Aaron supposedly going to be the last Shephard we see? Or will David come back into the picture? If at the end of the series Jack is the one who sacrifices himself for the “greater good” or something, then it would seem appropriate to have an opportunity for the Jack Shephard lineage to continue somehow. I think Jack’s freedom from his daddy issues needs more resolution beyond what we saw between him and David. His child is a fitting way to bring that about…so if it’s David, then okay, I’ll just need to see more of Sideways Jack’s life to believe it.

    About the Sideways timeline or “occurrences” as you bring up…

    I don’t think we have given enough thought to the purpose behind the timeline. That’s why I’m not satisfied simply calling it MIB’s timeline. Just like the Flashbacks revealed “who are these people, what are their stories, why are they doing (or not doing) the things on the island that they are…?” I think it’s worth looking more closely at the behaviors and choices as they coincide with on-island storylines. (Hope that big long sentence makes sense.)

    That’s why I agree about Kate’s “running issues” and how we’re finally going to get back to those soon. So she’s been ‘caught’ by Sawyer now… It’s their second interaction since LAX, and he will either let her go (again) or we’ll see some more development that will probably overlap with what is happening on island. (Wouldn’t it be interesting to see Mars shoot Sawyer in Sideways timeline?) I think whatever Sawyer thinks he’s plotting on island is going to connect with whatever comes to be in Sidewaysville. I’m sure there will be some trust issues and ultimately getting back to “why Kate runs” from another perspective. Ben chose not to sacrifice Alex, so will Kate choose to stop running or will she just finally get caught for good?

    Thanks for the kind words. You know me…I love a good character analysis any day. 🙂 Looking forward to your post, too.

  7. Sinster – interesting perspective to consider. If Flocke doesn’t want Kate with his group, where does that leave her in his plans?

    I totally think it’s fair to consider that Aaron is primed to become more like MIB than Jacob…it’s one of those truths that Flocke has strategically alluded to…and I think that’s why it’s worth considering that if Aaron is one half of the ‘new’ equation, who is his counterpart?

  8. Jack I was thinking would be his counterpart, but let’s say for a minute the theory of Kate carrying a baby Shepard is correct… Then I’d say that Kate’s unborn child, would replace Jacob, and Aaron would replace MIB… (Which would make A LOT of sense…) But…… ladies can’t give birth on the island so………

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