Jacob isnt a good guy y’all
ive been toying with this idea for a while now but i didnt want to post anything until i was kinda sure of it, cant say that i’m sure now but i am like 86.7544% convinced jacob isn’t the “good” guy. i mean what do we know about him really? what exactly makes him good? that he wears white and mib wears black? well if we are going with the show being a chess/bacggamen game in both of those games there is a black and white but neither side is good or evil there is just two sides…
WHY I DONT THINK JACOB IS “GOOD”:
1. the candidates he brought to the island arent exactly “good” people they have killed, cheated, stolen, lied, blah blah blah. basically all the remaining candidates have killed someone, even the people that died like the two diamond stealing people, shannon was lying and stealing from boone’s mom, echo was involved with the drug plane people… so if you are a “good” guy, and you want to bring someone to replace you as the protector of the island wouldnt you want a “good person” for the job?
2. after they take ben when he is shot and heal him in the pool at the temple or wherever the others healed him at, he doesnt come back as a “good” person, he comes back and kills mercilessly his dad, who granted was an ahole but still, and all of dharma, then chooses the island over alex. in the sideways universe, which presumably is the universe without jacob’s touch, ben isnt a total ahole, he is taking care of his dad and chooses alex over his own power.
3. mib seems just like a sad little soul that turned “evil” out of hopelessness, he just wants to get off the island. i am guessing (as many others have stated) mib was candidate #1 jacob brought him there, he didnt wanna be there, now he wants to bounce but cant so he gets pissed and wants to kill jacob.
yes?no?maybe?thought?
I think a main theme of the show is that ALL human beings are flawed.
If MiB wasnt evil before, why would there be this master plan to keep him on the island? Jacob is NOT the white knight in the story, and ive felt that way since the season 5 finale. ( we see he could have saved Nadia, but he didnt because he knew Sayid wouldnt come back without her dead) But he has done what he had to do to save the world from MiB’s evil. And not all the people he brought to the island were bad. Jack is a very good man, but has flaws, and Hurley is about as good as a person can get.
Yes, i also believe Jacob is not the good guy after all. I think the writers have been trying to mislead us all this time.
Hmmm..this is why Hurley should be the candidate that’s chosen..he’s really not as evil as everyone else ..haha.
Hurley is also a sinner if you put this into the context of religion.
Jack: Pride
Hurley: Gluttony
Sawyer: Anger
Lock: Sloth
Kate: Avarice
And so on.
But let’s not forget a few things:
Jacob ruined the lives of the losties (substitutes) probably for a reason. They were being tested to the extreme. They had all the reasons to bad and yet they all still had good hearts and virtues.
But this could go both hands. At least now we will found everything out in the next 8 episodes 🙂
locked- very cool thought on each of them being a different “sin”. although i am really hoping the show isnt directly based on one religion, i am totally loving your idea here.
monini- team hurley all the way! lol i <3 the little fatty
sinster- although that is a major theme in the show i dont think it applies to what i’m trying to say. yes all human beings are flawed, but as a “good” supreme being of sorts looking for your successor wouldnt you want to find someone who is less flowed than most. i just think there is something more to jacob that we dont know yet so viewing him as the ultimate “good guy” isnt right
locked: Nice comparison with characters to the mortal sins. Esp. since Se7en is one of my favorite films. 😉
obsessed: Liking this post a lot! Not only the switched idea of Jacob = bad and MIB = good but erasing the entire notion of good/bad! Just two opposing forces, as in a game… nice.
I played devil’s advocate in another thread via comments re: this idea. I think the thread was Jacob’s Gifts.
Someone was pointing out how Jacob’s touch had given the candidates all a gift… a la Richard. But just because they seemed like gifts or were told they were gifts didn’t mean they were…
As Richard begins to flail about the island in despair over his “gift” (never aging, permanent eyeliner), I considered the idea that Jacob “took away” from the candidates and nudged them into a bad turn (i.e. If the shop owner had called Kate’s mom to report her shoplift attempt and Jacob didn’t save the day, would she have learned the consequences of facing your actions? Yes, drastic for one moment, but these little moments in life shape you most definitely.)
One of my points was he came to Jin/Sun to tell them their love was important, yet soon after his “touch” they started a course of events that led to them resenting each other and becoming different people.
locked: Nice comparison with characters to the mortal sins. Esp. since Se7en is one of my favorite films. 😉
obsessed: Liking this post a lot! Not only the switched idea of Jacob = bad and MIB = good but erasing the entire notion of good/bad! Just two opposing forces, as in a game… nice.
I played devil’s advocate in another thread via comments re: this idea. I think the thread was Jacob’s Gifts.
Someone was pointing out how Jacob’s touch had given the candidates all a gift… a la Richard. But just because they seemed like gifts or were told they were gifts didn’t mean they were…
As Richard begins to flail about the island in despair over his “gift” (never aging, permanent eyeliner), I considered the idea that Jacob “took away” from the candidates and nudged them into a bad turn (i.e. If the shop owner had called Kate’s mom to report her shoplift attempt and Jacob didn’t save the day, would she have learned the consequences of facing your actions? Yes, drastic for one moment, but these little moments in life shape you most definitely.)
locked: Ruining their lives for a reason… could be to learn a lesson… or to nudge them in the wrong direction. But you’re right. Only 8 more episodes to speculate on… gotta crank out those theories! Haha…
I think the producers achieved what they wanted. With the little areas of gray between the two, there are plenty of people who are suspicious of Jacob being good. I don’t think though there is a twist here(and no that’s not because of white and black). Jacob has a plan and that plan must be fulfilled. It eventually comes down to what his plan is. To prove that there is salvation for all people? I do strongly believe Jacob is the good guy, because there is nothing so far to make me suspicious about wanting the “bad thing”. He seems that he wants the good thing for other people, not for himself.
And you attributed too much on Jacob in your second point, in which there are no evidences. We all know that Jacob didn’t have to do with many things. I’m sure he didn’t order the purge.
MIB cannot be called bad either because probably circumstances pressed him to be like that. But what is bad about him is that he kills people at will to achieve his OWN interests.
Al – couldnt you say the same about jacob, killing to achieve his own interests. the main person that jumps to my mind is Naida, also all the people that died in the plane crash just so the losties could get to the island,
No I can’t say the same about Jacob. It was their fate to die. It wasn’t Jacob who coordinated the plane to crash on the island. MIB kills plain and simple. Jacob has nothing to do with people’s death. It is people’s actions that causes their death, their fate, their will.
If you take Dogen’s example, Jacob gave him an option to salvage himself. This option did not include his death, but some kind of “job” in exchange of saving his son. If in some point in his life dies, it is not JAcob’s fault.
To conclude the difference between the two is that Jacob’s will, even though it includes casualties through people’s choices and actions, probably does not have to do with “I want this guy to die or this guy to die”. On the other hand MIB kills without a doubt and he is recruiting because of the “rules”, because he can’t kill them his own, because he will make them kill each other.
Maybe dying isnt the worst thing that can happen to someone on Lost…?
Also to add some things about Nadia, because people are confusing killing with something else. He didn’t kill Nadia, it was her fate to die. Jacob just touched Sayid in a crucial moment in his life. You will ask why didn’t he save her? Because it was her fate to die.
Jacob is working on some numbers. Those numbers has something to do with fate probably. Nadia didn’t fit in the equation.
It is the worst when they kill each other…
The producers made it crystal clear with the flashsideways. Depending on your attitude your “other life” will be similar. The scale, the black vs white represent this.
Let’s take for example Keamy. When he died on the island he was the worst scumbag in the entire world. So his resolve was that of a scumbag(black). On the flashsideways we see the same scumbag. He didn’t have the chance on the island to change, so he remained a scumbag. Note that the flashsideway is the end because the island is no more. No other chance…even though I believe that this is not a loop and Jacob is clueless about the end as everyone else.
Now let’s take Ben. He was a scumbag in most of his life on the island. He never cared for anything else other than the power(greedy=black). When his daughter died and then killed Jacob because he blamed him instead of himself, he realized that he was a scumbag and he changed by admitting his mistakes. We immediately see a Ben off the island making a crucial decision, which is moral and good instead of taking the greed(white). He still didn’t die on the island. If he dies the same man as he is right now, he will be eternally good in his other life.
The worst thing to happen in Lost is to die with a dark side in you. Sayid showed a dark self because of Nadia. This means he will never be with her in his other self. If he ended up dying on the island with a good soul, his life on the flashsideways would have been with Nadia.
Al, i see what you’re saying. it does my sense, but in my personal opinion i just dont think that the two sides aren’t necessarily all bad or all good, i just think there are two opposite sides with good and bad parts in both of them