“Dead” Isabella & Smokey On Screen Simultaneously?
Hello everyone,
Sorry if this has been brought up before but I have a quick (but most pressing) question. In the most recent episode about Richard, we see his dead wife Isabella come to Richard while he is still trapped in chains on the Black Rock. Isabella tells him they are both in hell and that the Devil is coming. While we see Isabella talking to Richard, we hear Smokey’s noises in the background indicating he is coming (the horn, cricket noises, whatever-you-call-them).
Now generally, I thought Smokey could look like anyone who is deceased. But I also thought that MiB can only take one form at a time. For example, we have never seen UnLocke and Smokey appear on screen simultaneously. We also didn’t see Alex or UnLocke appear simultaneously. We also did not see Christian and UnLocke appear simultaneously…you get my point! One form at a time!
So, if this is true and MiB can either show up as Smokey OR a dead person, then how do we hear Smokey coming when Richard is talking to Isabella on the Black Rock..???? That would have to mean either MiB can take two forms at once (which we haven’t seen before – correct me if I am wrong), Isabella is alive (but we saw her die at Richard’s home), OR someone else who is on the island can take the form of dead people besides MiB…
Now seeing as how we sort of saw Smokey devour Isabella, I want to say Smokey and Isabella were two different entities. Otherwise, it is rather theatrical if Smokey pretended to be Isabella and ate himself (I hope that makes sense…)
What do you guys think? Jacob said (how much can we trust what he says) that “That wasn’t your wife”…so that means it was probably MiB in Isabella’s form..but if it were, how is it possible that MiB was in both Smokey form and Isabella form at the SAME TIME???
Lastly, maybe the fact that Isabella’s spirit is on the island talking to Hurley means she REALLY died on the island…? Maybe Jacob brought her back from her disease-induced death in his magic pool in the temple and then that’s why we saw Smokey eating her on screen. But if that were the case, Jacob wouldn’t have seemed so surprised to see Richard or hear about his wife…and their general conversation doesn’t fit unless Jacob was “playing dumb”.
Discuss guys =)
m0nini873, I also can’t accept Isabella being portrayed by Smokey while simultaneously being on-deck with the rattling sounds, and pretending to devour itself… it’s too twisted and far-fetched, and almost feels like “bending the rules”…
I think Jacob’s comment to Richard (“That wasn’t your wife”) could be misleading – why assume it was Smokey? It could just as well have been Jacob himself! He got to Richard first, but then Smokey confronts “Jacabella” for interfering and he/she runs away because those are the rules – he must not interfere.
Or…. it could have been a mere hallucination from Richard, seeking redemption from Isabella’s death which he blames on himself – remember he was dehidrated and on the verge of death!
In any case, I don’t buy that appearance of Isabella as Smokey while it’s also on-deck…
On the other hand, what about this: that Isabella in the Black Rock really IS Smokey (taking the form of dead people), and Jacob is the noises on-deck which make “Smokabella” run away.
Hmmm….. Not sure who I am now !!!! LOL
Those are some good points there. I guess your last line says it all. Jacob might be playing dumb. I see no other explanation of this. There’s got be a reason we haven’t seen smokie in two forms at the same time (from what we know).
jacob had to have been playing dumb. he already knows that mib wants to kill him from the end of season five…. like someone else said this might have been the first attempt but jacob already knows. dont forget what jacob said to hurly in the light house episode. something to the effect like “well hugo sometimes someone needs me to get into the back of a cab and tell them what to do, and sometimes they need to figure things out on their own” . what do u guys think the signifigence of that butterfly was in that scene on the black rock? i watched ab aterno again last night and in the scene when richard was in jail and the priest came. i got the feeling when he said u are going to hell that the priest was not a priest. what do u guys think?
just read what i wrote. if i came off as being rude it was not my intention at all..
@fresnele: I agree – we don’t know the full extent to Jacob’s abilities, but do you think he is able to take the form of dead people like MiB can? So far in the show, I don’t think we have much indication of this, do we? I do think that MiB in two forms at once seems to bend the rules as you said, and this is why I am suspicious of who Isabella was and why Smokey felt the need to eat her…hopefully, this will be explained because it doesn’t fit with what we know about the show so far and the truth could change some of our assumptions about what MiB can do (or Jacob)…
@Chief: I feel like Jacob is all too knowing (in the present day with the Losties) to suddenly be portrayed as “Hey, what are you doing on my island?” in Richard’s time… This may suggest that Jacob had a different M.O. back then, as in the present, we never saw him get violent with anyone on the island either (which he was with Richard). Jacob has been portrayed as sort of omniscient, so when he played dumb with Richard, I didn’t believe my ears!
@ar420316: Did your post get deleted?
@ifoundmyloophole: I believe you on the point that we don’t know all of smokies abilities. However, the writers have introduced this smoke character over and over and never once was it simultaneously on screen with a dead “projection” or character. It’s too convenient that suddenly the writers want to change the rules as we know it and allow MiB to be in two forms as once. And it would be a little stupid to have mislead us for so long because even if we thought he COULD inhabit two forms, it’s a minor point in the grand scheme of things and hiding it until now is silly.
What we do know is the writers are extremely careful about what they show on screen, even the little details. So there can be no mistake that this was shown to make us wonder. As usual =)
nah monini i think it is still here. if not i must of said something somebody didnt like…. apologies if i did
@ ar420316: Sorry mate, I don’t see it!
jacob had to have been playing dumb. he already knows that mib wants to kill him from the end of season five…. like someone else said this might have been the first attempt but jacob already knows. dont forget what jacob said to hurly in the light house episode. something to the effect like “well hugo sometimes someone needs me to get into the back of a cab and tell them what to do, and sometimes they need to figure things out on their own” . what do u guys think the signifigence of that butterfly was in that scene on the black rock? i watched ab aterno again last night and in the scene when richard was in jail and the priest came. i got the feeling when he said u are going to hell that the priest was not a priest. what do u guys think?
could be the island itself.
ifoundmyloophole: Yes, I think the writers are revealing more. However, I would rephrase this..instead of “less careful” I would say they are intentionally divulging certain bits of information. The truth is, they are always careful – as their attention to detail suggests. I believe smokey did purposefully scan Richard and find out about Isabella to manipulate him. I just don’t understand how while imitating Isabella, he was able to remain in smoke form.
Another point I’ve noticed (and this may be nothing but a small detail) is that SOMETIMES when smokey appears there is a horn/muted-trumpet blare that sounds right before smokey’s arrival. Sometimes, we just hear the cricket sounds to indicate smokey’s arrival. Does anyone think this difference indicates something? Similarly, sometimes smokey is shown all black, and sometimes he is shown with what seems like lightening going off inside him.
Again, if you are proposing MiB was in two forms at once…why would smokey devour himself (in the form of Isabella)? He could have manipulated Richard in Isabella’s form the entire time (and this probably would have been more effective, too). Additionally, MiB ADMITTED to Richard that he is the smoke monster. But then convinced Richard that Jacob was the devil and to kill him.
My point is – there must have been a point why MiB killed Isabella and then admitted to Richard he is the smoke monster. Richard thought the smoke monster killed Isabella, remember? It was MiB who said “no she was running from him [Jacob/”devil”] and I couldn’t find her” or some such nonsense. What do you think?
Monini, I had similar concerns:
http://www.theoriesonlost.com/2010/03/smokey-can-be-in-more-than-one-place-at-once/
I believe that there is a “Jacob’s Ladder” connection to the spiritual world from the island. This has been seen in Sawyer’s boar, Kate’s horse, the butterfly (which was perhaps was a spirit of Isabelle), and I’m sure other instances . But that’s not what we saw here.
I believe Smokey can take the form of dead people, and in this case (with Isabelle), I am pretty certain that is what happened. Smokey has several abilities (remember the unlocking of the shackles), so my guess is that he can ‘be’ Isabelle while causing the sounds of the Smoke monster to occur outside the cabin of the ship as well….
That said, the Isabelle we saw with Richard at the end of the episode WAS Isabelle – a real spirit that came through Jacob’s ladder (and perhaps was allowed to do so by Jacob, the keeper of the island).
There are several different spiritual elements at play, which get confusing fast when merged together….
Sorry Ilie, I totally missed that! My bad! Once again, great minds think alike =)
As I have said in my previous posts, there are TWO smoke monsters! One is MIB. The other is the real monster/Jacob.
It has been said that MIB can only take the form of Locke now, but smoke is not a ‘form’. So he can still turn into smoke.
Throughout the entire series prior to season 6, whenever the Smoke monster has been spoken about it has been refered too as ‘security system’ that ‘protects the island’.
So my theory is that the real smokie protects the island an MIB can copy it just like he can copy dead people.
Also Jacob is supposed to be protector of the island, so perhaps he too can change into smoke to protect!
This season smokie appears to be grey, which to me is a clue that it’s not the same/only one.
So I think u are right noticing isabell and smokie on screen at the same time, this is another clue to there being two!
It think the first smokie which scanned Richard was MIB, who saw that he could manipulate him, when he returned as isabell the real smokie/Jacob came to scare MIB away from Richard!
This is why Jacob knew and was ready to fight Richard on the beach…..
Lostaddict, I like your theory a lot. Perhaps smoke is just another copycat behavior from MiB.
@m0nini873 – I was just watching “Ab Aeterno” again, in particular the scene you comment on this post when Isabella is taken away by the smoke monster… and I have to say, at no point in the scene do we see both Isabella AND the smoke monster on screen at the same time. What we see/hear is:
1. Isabella interacting with Richard below deck.
2. Noises similar to the smoke monster on-deck and projected shadows on Isabella and Richard as if something is moving above them.
3. Isabella running up the stairs and disappear off-screen onto the ship’s deck.
4. Violent noises and movement on deck, Isabella screaming, and sudden silence.
So, it doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be the smoke monster that took Isabella away – it could’ve been another entity of similar characteristics. Perhaps “the other” smoke monster as some of you have mentioned before. Perhaps Jacob in his “alter-ego” form which we are yet to see?
Here is what I don’t understand: the whole point of posing as Isabella was to create the situation where Isabella is “re-killed / abducted” in front of Richard’s eyes, in the hope that this creates rage against the “killer” (whoever that may be) and Richard is willing to get his revenge. So, since the victim of this plot appears to be Jacob, it would make sense that MIB was behind the whole scheme. So, it WOULD have to be MIB as Smokey AND Isabella…
Or…. Isabella was in fact “Jacabella”, reaching out to Richard and trying to save him from MIB, and MIB finds out and confronts “Jacabella” on deck, which is the “fight” we hear on deck when she runs upstairs…
But… Smokey did scan Richard before any of this happened, and didn’t kill him – so why would Isabella need to “save” Richard from Smokey if he doesn’t need to be saved?
Then again… remember that when Isabella walks down below deck, she doesn’t know Richard is even there (Richard is awaken by her asking “is anybody down here?”)… so it’s just coincidence that she finds him there – or at least whoever is “posing” as her is playing that role…
Boy, this is so twisted that ANYTHING could be true… !!
I was just about to say that fresnele, you don’t actually see both on screen simultaneously, you just hear the sounds. Good post
fresnele and deadpaki: I watched that scene again, and it’s true you don’t exactly see what is happening because the camera view is from below deck and most of the view is blocked…but in previous scenes that I mentioned in my post, i.e. when UnLocke takes Ben to be judged and dead Alex shows up, they have not shown MiB’s dead form and had the smoke monster noises at the same time…(at least I don’t think/remember so)… So even that small difference is contrary to what we’ve been thinking. I really don’t think there’s two smoke entities…..it’s really not as exciting of a phenomenon if there’s two! =P Then there could be three or four…someone famous once said something like..”Whatever happens once, will surely only happen once, but whatever happens twice will surely happen again..” (Don’t slaughter me if I butchered that quote a little..haha)
Well, conversely, we have seen smokey split into three, so to speak. When Keamy’s men was killed off by smokey…
What do you guys think of that?
Monini, in Swedish we say “en gÃ¥ng är ingen gÃ¥ng, tvÃ¥ gÃ¥nger är en vana” which means something like “one time is no time, two times is a habit” (or was it rabbit, hmm…).