Christian’s Body

In “The Last Recruit” which for the record I did really enjoy, did provide some answers regarding the mystery behind Christian Shephard but at the same time I find myself questioning to believe if it is really true.

If you think about it, it makes sense that it is true.

1. MIB can take on the form of dead bodies – proof with Locke
2. MIB can appear and disappear when he wants – proof with Locke (inside the statue)
3. MIB somehow knew that Jack needed water at that particular moment when chasing Christian
4. Claire was sitting in the cabin with Christian all bat shit crazy, worse then she is now
5. Christian told Sun & Lapidus to find John Locke and “he will know what to do”
6. For MIB time is not linear, he knew exactly what moment Locke would flash to 2007 for Richard to show up, bandage his bullet wound and tell Locke he must die.

So if all of this makes so much sense, why do I still not believe it. Was it too easy of an answer or are there just a million holes?

Take for example the fact that Christian’s body is missing, has been since season 1 – it also went missing in the alternate timeline (dissappeared off the plane). We know exactly where Locke’s body is, did MIB bury the body himself, I don’t get it. He left Locke’s body behind like it was no thing.

Claire mentioned that not only did her “friend” who obviously lied to her say that the others had Aaron, but also that “her father told her” – at this point she also said to Jin “That’s not John, thats my friend”

Then Claire says to Jack “did he tell you he was pretending to be our father the entire time”
Claire also says in The Last Recruit “We are going to leave w/o John” as if Kate needed to convince her that MIB was not really John Locke.

Either Claire is crazier then we think or her character is full of bullshit dialogue this season.

Christian has also been seen wearing different shoes and shirts. I understand that MIB can change clothes when in the form of another person (Locke was in a suit, now in jungle gear) but when appearing as a quick apparition, what is the point?

Also if/when MIB was trapped inside the cabin, how was he still able to do all of these things, like what did being trapped in the cabin actually prevent him from doing?

Another hole is that Christian appeared to Sun & Jin on the main island when Locke was with Ben on Hydra Island, SO WHY DOES HE NEED A BOAT NOW?

And I know it has been previously stated but Christian was on the freighter and also in Jack’s hospital (hospital not for sure that could have been in Jack’s head but definitely on the freighter) so again WHY DOES HE NEED A BOAT NOW?

Sorry this is all over the place I am just very frustrated by this answer, tons of holes, bullshit if you ask me. This was the best they could do? I hope MIB was lieing

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I needed that pain to get to where I am now - JL

36 thoughts on “Christian’s Body

  1. ive been thinkin alot of the same things with alot of stuff this season….honestly i think they just opened up alot of shit and are trying to make it all tie together somehow but its not making any “friggin sense”…theres goign to be alot of stuff at the end that problem doesnt make sense but they just dont know how to patch it all up now…there just too many questions

  2. Please read my post “Christian Shephard” (posted last week in “theories”). Basically I stated that Christian’s appearances on the island and off the island have been a combination of Nemesis and Christian himself. Nemesis says that he pretended to be Christian (tells Jack) but he didn’t say how many times/when/where. We’ve seen Christian many times; some of them were Nemesis, and some were actually Christian (soul). I think the one on the freighter talking to Michael was actually Christian.

  3. I couldn’t agree more. Either MIB’s lying (which is still very possible) or this entire story is full of inconsistensies.

    Either way, it’s damn frustrating. If MIB’s lying to everyone, including the audience, this late in the game, that’s pretty harsh on the writer’s part to do that to us. If it’s just holes in the story, well, them are some massive frickin holes. So that’s damn frustrating as well. I hope he’s lying. It’s the lesser of two evils right now.

    Also. I’ve been thinking about Christian’s body too. Let’s assume MIB can go off island without a problem (like Christian showing up in the hospital to Jack). What if Christian was Smokey for as long as Jack as known him? What if every single time we’ve seen Christian, it’s been Smokey?

    It would explain Christian’s body missing in the original timeline. His body makes it to the island, and poofs into smoke again. It’s quite the longshot, but I have no other idea as to why we still haven’t seen Christian’s dead body at this point in the show.

    Thanks for posting this. It’s a good one.

  4. If sometimes it’s really Christian, and sometimes it’s MIB, this show is one of the most complicated anomalies in history. How they expect any casual watcher, or hardcore fan for that matter, to fully understand this show is beyond me.

  5. I have a problem is they try to tell us that Jacob is able to take the form of anyone he wants. Jacob has always been shown as himself and as someone who could be killed it would seem that he’s not really a candidate (pun intended) to be able to transform into other entities. We’ve never seen it happen and there’s nothing to suggest he could do it – at least nothing we’ve ever been shown.

    So if it was MIB appearing as Christian how did he get off the island to the freighter and the hospital?

    And was it also MIB who appeared as Ben’s mother? She appeared outside his bedroom window which was located inside the sonic fence. How did MIB get inside the fence?

    After he returned to the island Ben was brought by Locke to the Temple to be judged by the Monster. Well MIB was already appearing as Locke and according to Ilyana he couldn’t change his appearance once he took on Locke’s appearance. So how did he appear as Alex to Ben in the Temple?

    There are just so many inconsistencies here that I’m going to be very disappointed if they don’t come up with a better answer by the end of the show.

  6. I’m all with this. I’ve always felt that Christian is somehow major important to the mythology of Lost. and I’ve been surprised/dissapointed that we haven’t seen him since “his” encounter with Sun and Frank.

    I too believe that it has been Christian and Nemesis on different occations – figuring out which ones is the hard part.

    I did not believe Nemesis when he said that he was Christian(not all the time anyway) like you say, there are too many holes.

    Most of us believed even before it was revealed – that Nemsis couldn’t travel over water – so how did he appear to Michael – and WHY would he do that?

    Nemesis doesn’t seem to be able to release people against the Island’s will – many rules and what not, right?

    When Christian appeared to Michael(Question, I can’t remember – did he even present himself as Christian like he did to Sun and Frank) it seemed he “freed” him, absolving him of his sins(which is why Michael came back, to redeem himself and die.)

    Until then, the Island wasn’t done with him(which is why he couldn’t kill himself)and it’s important to note that it really was that moment – not just ariving “to” the Island(remember Keamys gun jamming) Which also makes me wonder if “Michaels” explanation to Hurley about the whispers is all there is to it(read the Whisper transcripts – the whispers seem to comment on the events and even characters by name – among them several dead on and off-Island, like Boone, Niki, and Frank Dukket)

    I personally am wondering why Michael(or anyone else for that matter)haven’t shown up to Hurley earlier..? And Provided whatever answers they could – as clearly they know a thing or two.

    Beginning to think that Michael was in fact Nemesis, why else would he have to “lure” Hurley away from the “Others”(Haha)
    before appearing..? Isabella for instance spoke to Hurley in the poen(a conversation Jack misstakes for one with Jacob)
    No, I’m thinking “Michael” couldn’t appear
    infront of the other Losties because they would have seen him too!(I know Ilana says he can’t change form anymore but….she was blown up…just like THAT!)

    But I digress, sorry, my bad..
    The thing about the cabin is –
    we don’t know who built it(I don’t think it was really Horace as per Lockes dream/vision)
    We don’t really know who it was for,
    Was it Jacobs..?

    No don’t think it ever was,
    as he replied to Nemesis at the beach: I’ll be right here(at the statue – which in fact – he was, for all we know the entire time since)

    And even though it’s hard not to believe it was Nemesis in the cabin with Locke and Claire – one thing struck me..
    He Tell John to move the Island, that’s all he says. However he doesn’t – Ben does, removing him from the Island, and causing it to start skipping through time.

    (This is the important part)
    This is actually the moment when things start going to Hell – for most but especially Locke.

    He was alone with the Others when He(not They – dissapeared/jumped/skipped)
    this lead him to among other things
    witness Yemis plane crash on the Island – and! getting shot by Ethan.
    After flasinh again he meets Richard who fix’ his leg and Tells him(per Nemesis’ instructions)that he has to die to bring the rest back..

    Now, correct me if I’m wrong – but wouldn’t all of this have been avoided if John himself turned the wheel(we don’t know that it would start skipping the same way – this could have been because Ben did it – he wasn’t supposed to, John was)

    As far as we know – the Richard in the cabin(with Claire though) only Tells him to move it.. Nothing about bringing them back, dying or anything.

    And had John listened the first time,
    their second conversation in the well wouldn’t have taken place.

    I’m thinking Christian(the real one – if such exists)is a major player, that sees the whole picture(or at least a bigger part than Jacob or Nemesis)

    Christian basically asked John – why the Hell did you listen to Ben..?
    And by doing so(leading to skipping, Richards compass, Nemesis’ loophole and Johns (again!)busted leg)

    I believe that’s why he appeared to John the second time – he hadn’t followed the original plan and thus(thanks to Nemesis)
    he would now have to “sacrifice” himself.

    I can’t say for sure why Ben would play John, as he seemed sincere(though it is Ben we’re talking about, the man with thousand faces)about not wanting John to be exiled but rather himself..
    Then it struck me – he wasn’t being evil or anything like that – he just wanted to leave the Island himslef – SO! that he could get revenge on Widmore for killing Alex.

    Ben had Lost leadership of the Others and his daughter – he figured if He moved the Island, he’d save it and get a chance for revenge!

    My punchline is – Christian in cabin says:
    John – move Island, to which Locke replies:
    sure man, no problemo, will do…
    Instead; Ben moves Island, John skips around time thus creating an opening for Nemesis to unleash on hell of a clusterfuck on or dear Losties.

    This was the game-changer, had John listened to Christian the first time – none of this could have happened – nothing involving the part of John Locke on the Island..

    Or am I totally wrong?

  7. Ok, here’s a thought…

    Some of you keep asking where is Cristian’s body in the island OT, we’ve never seen it… is it buried? did Smokey hide it?

    OK, think of the ATL now – when Jack lands in LA, he finds out that the coffin never made it to LA since it was never loaded on Oceanic 815….

    So…… what if the same thing happened in the OT, only that we just never realised it? We saw Jack stumble upon an empty coffin in the caves in “White Rabbit” all the way back in Season 1 – and everyone assumed it must have been Chritian’s. Well, what if the coffin was someone elses, and just put there to throw us off? What if, like in the ATL, the coffin and the body never made it to the flight, or to the island for that matter?

    I know there’s no evidence to prove this – but I don’t think there is any to prove it wrong (correct me please!). But I think this might explain why the body never showed up!

  8. Hey Josh. I’ve been thinking about this, too.

    The biggest discrepancy to me about Locke being Christian is that Christian appeared to Sun & Frank while FLOCKE was also running around the island and later on Ilana said that they were carrying around John’s body to show people who MIB was stuck as.

    My idea on this: Jacob wasn’t dead yet when Christian kept appearing. Once Jacob died he was “stuck” as Locke, as Ilana explained. Perhaps that is why he could appear as Christian off-island, too. And I think MIB could appear as Christian in various forms off-island, but he still was ‘trapped’ and bound to the island’s power/rules the way that Flocke has alluded to in other ways this season.

    I think the missing body thing is still important, because it’s another similarity that binds the two timelines together and it is central to Jack’s character resolution. So, while I think there is something to the Jacob being dead thing, I also have a shred of hope that there is more to come about Christian. I don’t necessarily agree that it has sometimes been Christian and sometimes MIB. But, it’s all speculation anyway, so who knows.

    Chief, you are so funny to have around here. In these waning days of plausible theories and ideas…you are keeping it fun to still check in every now and then! 🙂

  9. Wow I can’t believe how many responses I got, glad to see I am not the only one frustrated by the MIB/Christian situation.

    Whoever mentioned the shoes being put on Locke’s dead body – great thought! That was at the end of season5, they knew what they were doing at that point, WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE?

    Christian must be better explained or I will consider that to be the largest cop out in LOST.

    MIB did lie to Claire about Aaron so its possible that he is lieing about being Christian.

    Oh and btw, whoever brought up the coffin and say “how do we know that was even Christin’s coffin”


  10. Josh, that was me. I take your point (I actually thought of this while writing the post, but hoped that nobody would notice, LOL, I just forgot how good everyone here is with details! LOL)…

    There’s only one way I *could* explain that: we never saw the coffin in Sydney, so we don’t know what it looked like. And we should take into account the emotional state Jack was when he found the coffin: alone, depressed, crying next to the fire, and having chased his dead father through the jungle all evening. So, when chasing him again, if he stumbled into a coffin in the middle of the jungle – who else could he think that it belonged to? Maybe he didn’t even look at the coffin, and just wanted to see what was inside….?

    I know this is far-fetched (I don’t even buy it myself) – but I just don’t understand why we haven’t seen Christian’s body in the island yet, there HAS to be a reason for it!

  11. I’m guessing Christian was ALWAYS smokey. I mean, maybe that boy on the island is Christian. Perhaps Christian grew up on the island, Smokey killed him at a young age, took over his body…then from there, started planning whatever it is Smokey’s been planning….and of course faked his death in Australia to get Jack to come out.

    It sounds damn ridiculous, I know. But it would explain how Christian’s dead body isn’t physically on the island anywhere.

  12. Hi Fresnele,

    I see where you are coming from, but considering the fact that Jack went to Australia alone to find has father, who ended up being dead. It is safe to assume that Jack picked out the coffin (no free coffins when you die) and had it transported to the airport in Sydney. Bascially he knew what it look like tied in with the fact that it looked pretty new and was with a bunch of other plane wreckage/baggage (charlies guitar)

    As far as the body, either MIB buried it which I doubt, or what I think to be true is the real Christian is walking around as well

  13. I have to admit…Im not frustrated at all by anything that has (or for that matter has ‘not’) been explained or been confusing…its like quitting on a book with 4 chapters left…

    Kim…Christian was not with Sun and Frank while Flocke was running around on Hydra…it was very separate times as I explained in my ‘Who the Monster is…” post a while back.

    We never see on the hydra until after Ben wakes up, and after Cesar finds Ben hit with a paddle.

    MIB was most likely on the main island as Christian and talked to Sun and Frank…then went over to the hydra…these two scenes do NOT interfere with one another, they occur at separate times.

    The shoes are the key, as I have been saying in recent posts…how exactly I dont know. I feel that they will be used more to get Jack to believe and understand what side Christian is on in the long run…Black and White shoes…which ones should he be wearing…?

    Its crazy…I watch the show and am amazed at how its all coming together, than come on here and cringe at seeing people either hating it, disappointed, or just not getting it…
    Its so god damn beautiful that its almost impossible for me to even debate how people dont like it.

    I become bored with episodes just like anyone else, but other than “what Kate Does” (Which I really do like, I just found boring compared to other episodes) I cant see boring at all.

    We are at a point where ALL of the Losties are coming together off island (that is really the point you know, to show that no matter what, these people are destined to have intertwined fate) and getting to the point where we show that not only has the past been changed, but that it really doesnt matter because destiny will still suffice in the end.

    Change can happen, but you cannot stop what isnt supposed to happen.

    Thats where I feel there is the only real mistake…

    Jacob himself has fallen out of the category of “free will” representative…say what you want about “if hes Christian this…” or “if hes other dead people that…”.
    He has already gone against what he said he didnt agree with the man in black doing…stepping in.

    He BROUGHT people to the island…he said it himself. He went off island and touched people, giving them advice to follow…as we saw and heard. He brought people here to protect him and his candidates…Ilana FORCING Sayid. Frank, having no idea where he was going upon take off. There was ruse from him the whole time!!! He doesnt have to lie…people are stupid enough to do what he simply asks of them, just like MIB.

    The only difference is, MIB disguises what he is offering…

    He can still be wrong or a liar and represent good…that goes for MIB as well.

    Chances are they are both doing what they feel is right.

    It seems Jacob has accepted the afterlife as not being dead, otherwise he wouldnt have allowed himself to be so easily killed.
    MIB seems to represent the physical life, needing bodies and physical products (think proxies or substitutes) to continue…such things are trivial to Jacob…DEATH…is trivial to Jacob.

    If there was no island left, or nobody on it for MIB to ‘be’…then what would be left…a cloud of smoke…what better reason to want off the island.

    I truly feel that Christians purpose was and is important on AND off island…I feel it will be explained, and just like everything else in Lost that takes time and patience…it will be greatly appreciated, and many episodes that dont make sense, or are called fillers will be looked at as amazing and classic episodes after the finale airs.

    Episodes such as The Constant or Ab Aterno are amazing in the way that they tie in a completely separate storyline to the one we are already watching.
    As we learn the origins of Jacob and MIB, it will tie in all of the odd behavior and ‘poor dialogue’ that some are claiming to be viewing now.

    Will everyone like it…no, probably not.

    But we will understand it, and most will appreciate everything that they contributed in the final episodes…maybe some will even wish they could retract a few posts bashing the show.

    I understand that we want answers. I understand that we want every episode to be as revealing as Ab Aterno…but that is not what Lost is or ever was…

    It was a show that everyone loved who watched it before they found out there would be an end date…then dissected after trying to really get to it before anyone else.

    And I think one of the biggest problems is that not only are we expecting them to tell our stories, we are expecting them to give answers before all the story is told…save the best for last…they got us all now…everyone knows it…and they have to make sure the last episode will not be without something spectacular.

    I cant say how much I have liked the last few episodes…Ab Aterno almost getting in the way of my true love of the show…the Losties themselves. And I got caught up in The Constant the same way.

    But regardless of how those two episodes played, they were not typical Lost, and what we saw this past Tuesday was.

    Sorry to rant, in the end… I do actually like the questions that you ask in your post Josh, and I think that there is an answer to the questions about Christian…its possible that we are being given it now and we dont even see it…

  14. AES – I know we can all agree, this show is amazing, and it always has been. The characters, the mystery, it’s all still there. But most episodes this season have left me with nothing to be in suspense about, which is ass backwards from previous seasons. From my personal standpoint, if I was watching this season on DVD, I doubt I’d have the problems with it that I’m currently having. The problem isn’t so much the story, it’s the bizzare pacing.

    Right now, we all wait a week (or two) to get another dose of Lost, like it’s always been. But when a large percentage of episodes move slower than the show did in the second half of season 3, it really wears on one’s patience (at least it does to mine).

    I’ve done a terrible thing by placing expectations on this last season. It’s something I shouldn’t have done, believe me I regret it. I figured the story would move somewhere, I figured things would gradually piece together. I didn’t think I’d be waiting until the final two hours of the series before I understood a damn thing. That being said, I’m not saying I want answers left and right. In fact, I rather they leave the answers out right now because the style in which they’re answering questions seem to build on people’s anxiety. Include me in that as well. I mean, thanks for telling us that Flocke, but no one trusts you, or anyone else right now, so don’t waste your breath. I’ll believe things when, and if, I see them.

    Why am I not feeling the suspense that I once did? Because the story is currently filled to the brim with liars and manipulators, and we can’t take anything anyone says to heart. I believe Hurley and Jack when they say something, and that’s literally it.

    I guess this style of writing doesn’t mix well with some of the fans. I’m an example. I know the finale’s going to be amazing. It won’t even have to “wow” me, it’ll be LOST’s finale. That alone is going to make it incredible. If the season itself would roll along in a more entertaining fashion though, I wouldn’t complain.

  15. AES again – Oh yeah, I remember when you wrote that, and having absolutely nothing to add to it because it made so much sense.

    It’s looking pretty good right about now too.!!!!!

  16. Good points on everything Chief, Josh as well in the original post…

    Its just if you go back to season 3, this is really exactly what they did…actually it was worse because it wasnt answered until the end of season 4, which is how and why did they leave, to “have to go back” to begin with.

    The season 3 finale showed them having to go back, and the season 4 finale showed them leaving…Hell, it wasnt until well into season 5 that they technically even came back.

    Thats why I say it isnt different than the way they told it before, its just the end…which makes people a lot more impatient when it comes to the story itself.

    You really think about it, its giving us a fair amount of everything, suspense, mystery, laughter, action, answers, and most importantly…drama…which is why we love Lost so far.

    I obviously have faith in the finale being telling and amazing all around. But I really do appreciate what they are doing with everything else too, something I know many others do not.

    And believe me, I am in no way trying to say anyone is nuts or stupid for feeling any way about the show, I am just trying to shed some light on why I am still enjoying it, and why its hard for me to see people unhappy with it.

    I would like to try and explain…maybe not so much what I think is going on with Christian exactly…but why I am not disappointed with it.

    Chief…you have a few minutes to discuss?
    Anyone else jump in too..

  17. Well, I hope I can explain this well….

    Widmore – Still no idea of this guy’s true intentions. Is it really to keep everyone from not existing? He seems to know a lot about island related subjects. Of course, he keeps his mouth shut about everything, and just orders people around like your typical wealthy assbag. Again, we know nothing about what he plans on doing at this moment.

    Jacob – He lies. He manipulates people, but does so with a kind-hearted smile. He’s doing to the audience what he does to everyone else: Leads them down a path of HIS choosing, without them realizing it, then “KABOOM”…..Of course, we still don’t know his intentions either.

    Smokey – He lies. He manipulates people, but does so with man-tits. Still know nothing of his origin. Still know nothing of his true intentions either.

    The Hanso’s – You’d think they’d be extremely important to the background of the story/island somehow. We know no important details though. Just that their wealth travels back many generations, and Alvar was intrigued by the island enough to fund some massive Dharma projects on the island. Time’s about up, and this family might remain a mystery forever.

    Christian – I sure as hell hope we see/hear more of this character. Too many questions still revolve around this guy. I want to think he’s the largest piece of the puzzle. BUT WAIT!, never mind, it was just Smokey all along. He’s so silly.

    I love the mystery behind all of these people. What I don’t love is that there was plenty of time to start chiseling away at some of these things throughout this season.

    When you don’t know who to believe anymore, the dialogue gets redundant. I thought I was going to flip with joy when I saw Jack ask Flocke about his dad. Then I realized immediately that Flocke’s a liar. He could so easily be saying things to Jack just to get him to do something he wants…..

    Add this distrust (with almost every character) to a redundant and confusing sideways flash, And you have yourself a frustrating season.

  18. I have faith that in a month from today we will look back at this whole show, including this season, and say “Wow. What an amazing show.”

    My frustrations are referring to the path that has lead us to that moment. Particularly the very slow moving episodes of this season.

  19. JACK: The third day we were here I saw… I chased my father through the jungle… my, my dead father. Was that you?
    LOCKE: Yes, that was me.
    JACK: Why?
    LOCKE: You needed to find water. This may be hard for you to believe, Jack, but all I’ve ever been interested in is helping you.

    Well to that, I call foul… who was it that knew Jack was chasing someone (The White Rabbit) that day in the jungle? That’s right… John Locke. And, MIB seems to be fully equipped with Locke’s memories, so I say, liar liar pants on fire. 🙂 And, since MIB has Locke’s memories, he would know that Jack found water because when Jack returned to camp he gave his famous I found water, live together die alone speech.

    Everyone here has expressed most of the same concerns that I have. But, I have one more thing that I didn’t see anyone mention: When Locke is climbing down the well there is a timejump that knocks the island back to when the statue is still standing. Locke falls down the well during this jump and he meets Christian below… If this is MIB as Christian, then how is MIB using Christian’s body during a time when the statue is still standing? Locke turns the wheel and then the next flash the statue is gone, timejumps stop and everyone remains in 1974.

    I just don’t think MIB was Christian every time… Reason I don’t think MIB was Christian in the well, is because we have been shown an emphasis on how MIB/Locke offers his hand to help people … Literally! So, then why wouldn’t/couldn’t MIB in the form of Christian offer his hand to help Locke?

    Just hope we get a better answer, because this answer has opened up a lot more questions due the alarming amount of plot holes! And, I guess I always thought that Christian himself would be a bit more important! Well, at least I was hoping!

    But, I still love the show!

  20. Well put…I guess I just never thought it moved slow…
    Im having these conversations everywhere. Some thought it moved slow, others thought it was fine but want answers…others dont want answers, but want this or that…lol…Im glad Im happy with it…

    Regardless…onto your other comment…

    For Smokey, Christian, and Jacob, we really are left with the three knowing that Christian could be one of, or both of the other two…or vice versa…
    basically saying, by giving that away now, may not only give away who the other ghostly images are at different times, but what their purpose was regarding good vs evil…something that is more than likely the last thought of the show with some sort of twist thrown in.
    For example Jack finally makes the ‘right’ choice and kills MIb somehow, and we find out Jacob is the baddie…not specifically that, but that kind of thing.

    As for Hanso…find someone who watches Lost every week but doesnt go online about it, and ask them who Hanso is…they will look at you like you had three heads…

    Hanso may be introduced as either Jacob or MIB in the long run, regardless of what they said about him being dead in Ab Aterno…There is also the possibility that Widmore is actually a Hanso. That would make the most sense actually. He generall fits the personae of what Hanso is off island…but I still think Jacob or MIB may be one…maybe Christian or Ray…who the hell knows at this point…but I think it will tie together nicely.

    Regardless of why Charles wants the island, he is stern on believing it is HIS island, and not just an island.

    I dont care what anyone says…he fits the bill as bad guy in every sense…
    I truly feel he is possibly the only one who wants the island for his own personal reasons, not for the good of anything else.

    I get what you say about not believing someone. There are times when I think Im right about something…then they flat out say it on the show, and I second guess what appears to be a Lost fact…

    Thats part of the allure of the show now…choosing sides, trusting someone.

    MIB and Widmore are ready for war…Jacob seemed to believe that mankind was better than that.
    If the losties so much as participate in a war…in the end they would be just another failure for Jacob, no?

    Jacob is still trying to prove MIb wrong. He believes in people, whether MIb does or not, and whether he steps in or not…sometimes you have to break the rules, especially if your opponent is…but that doesnt mean that the losties do. If death is as trivial as jacob believes, and he believes in people not fighting, destroying, and corrupting…than I would imagine his chosen one would have to feel very similar.

  21. Elsewhere…
    You are correct…good judgement on Christian not offering his hand in the well…
    Its very reminiscent of Jacobs not wanting to step in.

    Thats a very good point and you could be spot on about MIB and Lockes memories. That would explain a lot of this as well in terms of how he is off island…

    I have a thought on possibly what happened off island when Jack saw Christian…it seems kind of nuts though…

  22. AES – Very true about Hanso. you make a good point. I just thought there would be more to the Hanso’s since there are more than one of them involved throughout the island’s history. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on what happened in the hospital with Jack and his dad.

    elsewhere – What an excellent observation. John was the only person Jack talked to about seeing something he shouldn’t have seen. When Locke asks him “What if this island wasn’t an island?” That’s when a lot of people really got sucked into the lore of the island.

  23. “Its very reminiscent of Jacobs not wanting to step in.” Exactly AES…

    Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t. lol! So, do tell AES! Like to see if we could possibly be on the same page with our nuttiness!

    …please don’t say it was the drugs, please don’t say it was the drugs… lol!

    Thank you Chief… Well, Hurley also knows that Jack was chasing his dead father, but that’s only because Jack told him, like yesterday… But yes, as far as we know Locke is the only one who knew… And, some of the most iconic lines came from the episode “The White Rabbit,” and I believe it’s one of the most pertinent episodes to date.

  24. Well, here’s one thing that I was thinking about in relation to this post… I rewatched “White Rabbit” today and noticed something curious:

    When Jack first spots Christian, he starts chasing him in broad daylight. We can hear Smokey-like sounds during this chase beyond any doubts (quite possibly confirming that in fact it WAS Skomey impersonating Christian at this time). Jack is so desperate to catch up that he trips and falls rolling down a hillside only to cling on to a loose root off the side of a cliff and remain there hanging. And then, out of the blue, when he is on the verge of plunging into the void and making “mashed-jack’t-potatoes” with the rocks down below, Locke’s hand suddenly appears from the cliff-top to save the day….

    Really? Was he watching Jack trip and roll down? Was he chasing his erratic run-around in the jungle? Or perhaps, just perhaps, it was Smokey impersonating Locke THAT early in the show, but it was just impossible for us to imagine so at that point? Isn’t it too big of a coincidence that Locke was just there? PLUS…. there we go again with Smokey (if it was Smokey as Locke) offering his hand to someone…. Everytime I watch that scene and take a look at Locke’s face, he seems way too calm for the situation. Like he had everything in control and knew Jack would be ok.

    Then again, Locke had that look maaaany many times early in the show – so is it possible, just possible, that perhaps the real John Locke actually died in the original 815 accident, and the Locke we’ve seen from day 1 was Smokey all along?

    I know this is a bit far-fetched and it doesn’t fit in with Locke’s lack of knowledge about the island at times. But hey, it would explain a ton of things:

    – Locke’s ability to walk on the island
    – His innate faith in the island
    – His persistence to open the hatch (and get the ball rolling with the Losties)
    – His knowledge of the island throughout the show
    – His ability to survive in the island
    – The fact that he talks about Smokey as “bright light” wherewas everyone else sees Black Smoke

    … not to mention the weird mystery about his Black Smoke drawing when he was just a kid. Was that foresight of what he was to become, or was it a memory of past experience? In this show you can never tell…..

    Wow… my head really hurts now…..

  25. Good observation fresenele…I did a little dissecting of that scene last year, and in the end after watching some coresponding episodes came to the conclusion that it was John Locke…unless of course you are correct and MIB was him the whole time…wouldnt make sense considering their many on screen performances together, many of which Locke seems out of touch with what the monster is…although I do believe that the first time the monster took him is the start of it all with him.

    It begins there in my mind with Locke and the monster.
    The monster read his thoughts, maybe showed him a beautiful life through the islands eye…maybe the alt world…
    Locke had a connection from there, and I think THAT is where is smokey picture spawned from…a moment as a child reliving a past life…

  26. As for my thoughts on Christian, I have not written a theory on it because I dont have my facts in order yet…but here is the jist…

    From what we learned from John Locke in the premier of this season is that the body is not always where the soul is.

    I believe that MIB has an ability to retain the physical forms of people, while Jacob has the ability to retain the souls…thats not to say MIB wouldnt get memories and whatnot, but he isnt John Locke…he just looks like him and knows what was in his brain… KNowing about a person and looking like a person doesnt make you that person.

    The distinction between the soul materializing and the physical body is going to end up being 2 very different things.

    With that distinction in mind, I think that is how we will learn different actions of Christian Shephard on and off the island.

    They may both look like Christian, but they most likely are not both Christian.

    One is actually MIB…the other…Jacob possibly, or at least the soul of Christian…but my money is on Jacob…it just makes sense.

    I cant help but say I would rather be wrong than be right and have Christian serve both sides…there has to be more to the story though. With all the free will talk, it wouldnt be right for Christian to be used without having some sort of choice or decision made to help either Jacob or MIB.

    I think about the appearances of Richards wife in Ab Aterno…something just seems off about her actions…and I still question what exactly went down when the monster, Richard, and Isabela were all at Black Rock upon its arrival…

  27. True LostAddict, I don’t think anybody is doubting that Christian’s human form died in Sidney – just like Locke’s human form died in LA…. wow, here’s a thought that just came as I was writing this: is it possible that Christian was told by someone related to the island (Smokey??? Jacob????) to go to Sidney and die in order to “save the island”, just like Locke was told to die in LA???? And isn’t it funny how on both counts, Jack was responsible for bringing the body to the island (unknowingly with Christian, intentionally with Locke)….???

    Ok, now to what I was really getting to: Christian’s lifeless body was recognised by Jack in Sidney, but that doesn’t mean it ever arrived to the island…. From our experience in LOST, unless we see it on screen, you can never be sure it happened! 🙂

    LOL, I’m ri`pping my own theories in one short post! LOL

    I think I kinda like my thought on Jack bringing both dead bodies to the island, and Christian going to Sidney to die for the island just like Locke went to LA….!!

  28. fresnele…” Christian’s lifeless body was recognised by Jack in Sidney, but that doesn’t mean it ever arrived to the island…. From our experience in LOST, unless we see it on screen, you can never be sure it happened! ”

    Ive had a theory for a while that the casket Jack smashed up on the island in season one is actually the one from the “alt” 2004 timeline this season.
    Meaning it flashed from the plane in the alt timeline to the island in the original season one timeline.

    I have also posted a thought saying that Christian Shephard is actually the monster.

    I wrote a theory today that could possibly explain all of this, at least a little…

    I was waiting for the normal end of the week wave to come in…but its a little behind…Ill post it now.

  29. A.E.S.

    I think we’re on very similar thought paths on this….. the dead bodies of Christian and Locke will definitely be revealing to the whole plot line…

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